The Thread of the 2009-2010 NBA Season

[DaddyTorgo]

bah! bad rondo!!! bad bad rondo!!

Originally Posted by report

Duffy said he is looking for a deal that would make Rondo one of the NBA's top five highest-paid point guards. According to Duffy, the Celtics "feel differently," Yahoo! Sports reported.

An unnamed source told Boston sports radio station WEEI that the Celtics offered Rondo a five-year, $45 million extension (an average of $9 million per year), but Rondo is seeking a five-year deal worth between $55 million and $60 million (an average of $11 million to $12 million per year).

Hmm...I might have to say I agree with the C's on this one. I'm not sure that Rondo is one of the Top 5 PG's in the league BY HIMSELF. With the supporting cast he has around him he has been great, and he is a phenomenal lil player, but he still hasn't shown a consistent midrange jumpshot and a lot of his baskets are "easy" due to defenses overplaying the other guys.

That being said though - I love the guy and I want him to stay.

[DaddyTorgo]

ooof - so much for Blake Griffin eh?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

bah! bad rondo!!! bad bad rondo!!



Hmm...I might have to say I agree with the C's on this one. I'm not sure that Rondo is one of the Top 5 PG's in the league BY HIMSELF. With the supporting cast he has around him he has been great, and he is a phenomenal lil player, but he still hasn't shown a consistent midrange jumpshot and a lot of his baskets are "easy" due to defenses overplaying the other guys.

That being said though - I love the guy and I want him to stay.

Yeah that could be said about a lot of players. Ainge doesn't have the luxury of pulling a Belicheck and let an Allstar caliber player walk. the NBA is not the NFL the NBA. I mean Rondo is atop7-8 not 5 PG But do we wnat to see next season the Lester Hudson era at PG starting?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Or do you want to see a team with a near-max PG who can't shoot, a decrepit KG, and spare parts?

Rondo would probably fetch a nice package of picks, players, and exemptions that could be used to improve the team.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. until rondo has a consistent jumper he's not a top 5 pg - i can't say i disagree with ainge there

[molson]

It will be an interseting rebuild v. reload discussion for the Celtics in the off-season.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

It will be an interseting rebuild v. reload discussion for the Celtics in the off-season.

I dunno...Pierce is okay still...Ray Allen claims to feel like he's 24 again...reload may be the choice.

[larrymcg421]

Meh, the C's are stupid if they let Rondo go. Yeah he's got some holes in his game, but he improved this past season and he's young. He can still improve more. I can't believe they'd consider letting a young PG who is as good as Rondo go.

I'll certainly be pissed if they let him go and have to watch the Cavs pwn us every night as Rondo dishes it to LeBron.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Meh, the C's are stupid if they let Rondo go. Yeah he's got some holes in his game, but he improved this past season and he's young. He can still improve more. I can't believe they'd consider letting a young PG who is as good as Rondo go.

I'll certainly be pissed if they let him go and have to watch the Cavs pwn us every night as Rondo dishes it to LeBron.

Lebron won't be in Cleveburg at that point.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

It's definitely risky. If Rondo is Andre Miller 2.0, I'll be happy to see the Cavs give him a near-max contract. There's a lot of risk both ways. Let's see how he does this year.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I think the Celtics would be damn fools to let Rondo go. I don't really understand why they bashed him this offseason, either. The way he played in the playoffs last year was insane. The defensive metrics show him to be one of the top defensive PGs in the game already. I have no doubt his offensive game will continue to improve. I have no doubt that he'll be a top 5 PG in a couple years. Which 5 PGs will be better than him?

[stevew]

Rondo is merely going to be a restricter FA next summer. And they will have the ability to match a max offer if he gets one. No point in maxing him at this point IMO. He's a 10M player and not a 15M one. You can get a nice piece with 5M in an offsesson generally. A 6-7 man type

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Or do you want to see a team with a near-max PG who can't shoot, a decrepit KG, and spare parts?

Rondo would probably fetch a nice package of picks, players, and exemptions that could be used to improve the team.

+1

You have to have two stars or Lebron to get to the finals. Rondo, Perkins and a bunch of old guys makes you the Indiana Pacers of the past decade.

[Groundhog]

Rondo is definitely not a max player. A max player should be the best player on your team these days, especially with frontoffices trying to be a little more careful with their coin. Rondo is a very good PG if you've got guys around him, but he's not someone you build a team around.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

I think the Celtics would be damn fools to let Rondo go. I don't really understand why they bashed him this offseason, either. The way he played in the playoffs last year was insane. The defensive metrics show him to be one of the top defensive PGs in the game already. I have no doubt his offensive game will continue to improve. I have no doubt that he'll be a top 5 PG in a couple years. Which 5 PGs will be better than him?

I agree with the general premise that the FO's public comments make no sense unless Rondo is a big chemistry problem behind the scenes, but I'll take a shot.

Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Dwyane Wade
Brandon Roy?
Devin Harris?
Russell Westbrook?
Brandon Jennings (just kidding)

[stevew]

Players who have the main attribute of "speed" generally age poorly.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Paul, Williams, Rose were the three that I could immediately think of. Wade and Roy are kind of hybrid PG/SG, aren't they? They don't necessarily play PG, but they have the ball in their hands like a PG. Harris is a far better scorer, don't know how much of a distributor/defensive presence he'll end up being. I love Westbrook, but he shoots even worse than Rondo does. He'll put up some numbers on that team, though. Could be in the discussion.

[whomario]

Golden State btw will indeed start both Ellis and Curry to start the season. Nelly-ball, coming to a city near you


Up until yesterday Magette was slotted into the starting PF spot, but now it apears he´ll start Turiaf.

Over/Under on different starting lineups for Golden State this year ? 10 ?

Originally Posted by stevew

Players who have the main attribute of "speed" generally age poorly.

come on, he´s 23, not 30.

Would definitely slot him at 8 rather than 10 mio a year, but loose him over that difference ? Wouldn´t be a good idea. IMO Boston will have more of a shot at sucess Post-Big3 by getting him some running mates that can stroke it rather than hope for that superstar swingman or Big Guy to come along that would enable you to get by with a mediocre PG instead.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm probably giving Rondo too much credit based on his playoff performance last year, but I just feel I'd be willing to pay a little more at the PG spot than any other position. Losing a 23 year old PG that has improved every season and nearly averaged a triple double in the playoffs would be devastating. How would they replace that?

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by whomario

Over/Under on different starting lineups for Golden State this year ? 10 ?

Over. Definitely the over.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by whomario

Golden State btw will indeed start both Ellis and Curry to start the season. Nelly-ball, coming to a city near you


Up until yesterday Magette was slotted into the starting PF spot, but now it apears he´ll start Turiaf.

Over/Under on different starting lineups for Golden State this year ? 10 ?

Hopefully Curry remembers how to shoot!

I'd like to see this Golden State roster with a proper coach to be honest. It should be Ellis-Curry-Maggette-Randolph-Biedrins out there in the starting 5 IMO, maybe moving Randolph to the 3 with Turiaf starting at 4 and Maggette coming off the bench.

[larrymcg421]

Are we just randomly assuming that Rondo won't get any better, even though he has improved every year he's been in the league? Furthermore, the question isn't whether Rondo is the best PG in the league, but whether or not you're willing to take the chance on letting him go and start over with an unknown quantity at PG.

You've got a 23 year old PG who even his detractors admit is ALREADY among the top 8 at his position, who just had a great postseason, and Celtics fans are ready to let him go. I just don't understand that at all.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

I'm probably giving Rondo too much credit based on his playoff performance last year, but I just feel I'd be willing to pay a little more at the PG spot than any other position. Losing a 23 year old PG that has improved every season and nearly averaged a triple double in the playoffs would be devastating. How would they replace that?

I'd pay a PF or C more than I'd pay a PG. PG is a very important position of course, but I think it's much easier to acquire one in the draft than it is a frontcourt guy.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I'd pay a PF or C more than I'd pay a PG. PG is a very important position of course, but I think it's much easier to acquire one in the draft than it is a frontcourt guy.

Center I'll give you, but I disagree on PF. For instance, I think the Aldridge deal was insane. He's not a max guy.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Are we just randomly assuming that Rondo won't get any better, even though he has improved every year he's been in the league? Furthermore, the question isn't whether Rondo is the best PG in the league, but whether or not you're willing to take the chance on letting him go and start over with an unknown quantity at PG.

The question is more: are you willing to tie up your cap space on this guy, especially when the salary cap may fall? Right now, I don't know that I would do that with Rondo.

You've got a 23 year old PG who even his detractors admit is ALREADY among the top 8 at his position, who just had a great postseason, and Celtics fans are ready to let him go. I just don't understand that at all.

I think you want to see a season-long great performance from him before you lock him up long-term with max money. Paying guys based on one postseason (though of course he's certainly had his moments before then) is probably not the wisest move.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Center I'll give you, but I disagree on PF. For instance, I think the Aldridge deal was insane. He's not a max guy.

I definitely agree on Aldridge - not a max player. Doesn't rebound nearly well enough, and isn't aggressive enough. But how many great PFs are there in the league worth max money? Not all that many. They are hard to find.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Hopefully Curry remembers how to shoot!

I'd like to see this Golden State roster with a proper coach to be honest. It should be Ellis-Curry-Maggette-Randolph-Biedrins out there in the starting 5 IMO, maybe moving Randolph to the 3 with Turiaf starting at 4 and Maggette coming off the bench.

I don't see how Ellis and Curry are going to play together. Certain teams, sure, they could make it work. But day in and day out? I know the Warriors don't care about defense, but that's ridiculous even for them. I'd prefer Ellis/Azubuike/Jackson/Randolph/Biedrins, with a second unit of Curry/Morrow/Maggette/Turiaf/Moore until Wright comes back. Then Wright to PF and Turiaf to C.

But none of this matters as long as Nelson is coach/de facto GM and Cohan/Rowell are in charge.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Regarding Rondo, this season is going to either make him some serious money, or he's going to settle in at about what the Celtics offer was.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Hopefully Curry remembers how to shoot!

I'd like to see this Golden State roster with a proper coach to be honest. It should be Ellis-Curry-Maggette-Randolph-Biedrins out there in the starting 5 IMO, maybe moving Randolph to the 3 with Turiaf starting at 4 and Maggette coming off the bench.

yeah, that´s a big issue. Although i just can´t imagine he will continue shooting this poorly once he gets into a rythm (although, this being a Nellie-coached team and all, that may never happen ...). I mean, he looked pretty damn good in every other aspect than the one that people assumed would translate the easiest.

The thing with that lineup : No one can shoot the long ball other than Curry who is supposed to create (he is the PG from how things are shaping up and will call the shots when playing together, not Ellis).

Also, with Randolph at the 3 you´d have 2 huge mismatch-traps on your end.

Plus : If you want even a small shot at doing sth this year (playoffs) than you have to start Jackson and hope to win him over, when motivated he is the keyplayer as he´s balancing everything out.

[Mr. Sparkle]

For those of you in or around NBA cities, I strongly urge you to go to a Warriors game when they're in town and watch Anthony Randolph. It's amazing. He'll flash all the pieces of a superstar, only in between he'll make some of the most boneheaded plays you can imagine. If he EVER puts it all together...oh man. He's something.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Sparkle

Regarding Rondo, this season is going to either make him some serious money, or he's going to settle in at about what the Celtics offer was.

I think this is right. I think they've been fairly consistent in saying that they want to see sustained greatness from him, and that's what this season is about.

[Scoobz0202]

C'mon Lebron. Bring that ring home this season!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I think this is right. I think they've been fairly consistent in saying that they want to see sustained greatness from him, and that's what this season is about.

I would love nothing more than Rondo earning the big contract he wants.

[whomario]

Has there ever been such a, well, "strange" Starter/Backup Combination at Center for a team ? 2 Big Men replacing each other that are this clearly Cs (and Cs only) and can actually play and had a great career repectively (different level of course, but even Z was an Allstar after all) but have very defined weaknesses in terms of mobility at their age.
Seems really strange to have Shaq go out and replace him with Ilgauskas.

This will get exposed by quite a few teams if they stick with that clear-cut rotation at Center (and not shift Varejao over there at times, but then wh´s playing PF other than Hickson ?).

With neither being a good (or even decent) help defender at this stage you can´t even afford to take Varejao out of the game for more than 2,3 minutes at a time, he´ll play a ton of minutes this year.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Rondo is merely going to be a restricter FA next summer. And they will have the ability to match a max offer if he gets one. No point in maxing him at this point IMO. He's a 10M player and not a 15M one. You can get a nice piece with 5M in an offsesson generally. A 6-7 man type

There is going to be a lot of money available next summer--and not everyone's going to get LeBron or Wade or Bosh.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Are we just randomly assuming that Rondo won't get any better, even though he has improved every year he's been in the league? Furthermore, the question isn't whether Rondo is the best PG in the league, but whether or not you're willing to take the chance on letting him go and start over with an unknown quantity at PG.

You've got a 23 year old PG who even his detractors admit is ALREADY among the top 8 at his position, who just had a great postseason, and Celtics fans are ready to let him go. I just don't understand that at all.

Which Celtics fans are ready to let him go? You make it sound like we/they're eager to see him gone when I think the current mood is wait and see, which given the uncertainties both of whether he keeps improving and the future NBA salary structure, is quite warranted.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

There is going to be a lot of money available next summer--and not everyone's going to get LeBron or Wade or Bosh.

He's a restricted FA after this season. Prove you deserve big money, either the Celtics will offer it, match whichever team does offer it or sign and trade him for significant pieces. This current season is the most important one to try and win a title with Garnett/Allen/Pierce only having 0-3? years left at a high level, so why bother signing him when it only risks his motivation disappearing?

[stevew]

Good win for the Celtics tonight. Cavs display the ability to get no scoring out of positions 2-10 in the rotation, including virtually nothing off the bench. Hopefully this will be corrected.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Which Celtics fans are ready to let him go? You make it sound like we/they're eager to see him gone when I think the current mood is wait and see, which given the uncertainties both of whether he keeps improving and the future NBA salary structure, is quite warranted.He's a restricted FA after this season. Prove you deserve big money, either the Celtics will offer it, match whichever team does offer it or sign and trade him for significant pieces. This current season is the most important one to try and win a title with Garnett/Allen/Pierce only having 0-3? years left at a high level, so why bother signing him when it only risks his motivation disappearing?

I am just saying...if it was my guy, I wouldn't just assume that he will be coming back even if he plays well and earns it. That's an awful lot of money for Celtics management to pay out when they're already paying boatloads to their big three.

I would also say, given how even some midlevel guys have gotten surprising deals when money was in play, that Rondo doesn't even need to play like a complete All Star to attract some serious top dollar offers from some teams.

[BishopMVP]

Kind of a weird game tonight. Cleveland dominates out of the gate, we dominate a 15 minute period around the half and it just settles in. Even with Cleveland making a late run it never felt in much danger. Our bench was clearly vastly superior to theirs tonight, and it was the difference in the game.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am just saying...if it was my guy, I wouldn't just assume that he will be coming back even if he plays well and earns it. That's an awful lot of money for Celtics management to pay out when they're already paying boatloads to their big three.

I would also say, given how even some midlevel guys have gotten surprising deals when money was in play, that Rondo doesn't even need to play like a complete All Star to attract some serious top dollar offers from some teams.

Yeah, it does run the risk of some team offering near max money when he deserves 2-3m/y less, but if that's his asking price now what's the risk?

I'm definitely not happy the owners are apparently hurting for cash (which is allegedly why they're going after Big Baby for money), but they certainly won't be the last we hear of this season. Rondo's extension wouldn't kick in until 2011-12, and Allen will probably be gone (or at a much lower number than 19) by then, with Garnett drastically reduced from 21 after 2011-12. Since they're not Jeremy Jacobs, they would almost certainly bite the bullet for that 1 year overlap if it came to it. Scal and Tony Allen are also on the last years of their deals, which is 6m that could be replaced with minsal players for next year.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Or do you want to see a team with a near-max PG who can't shoot, a decrepit KG, and spare parts?

Rondo would probably fetch a nice package of picks, players, and exemptions that could be used to improve the team.

Yeah never happen nobody is going to give us shit for him now that they know he is heading FA.

[Neon_Chaos]

Agent Zero looked really good tonight.

Bynum was also great.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yeah never happen nobody is going to give us shit for him now that they know he is heading FA.

Nah, I mean he'll be restricted. Someone signs him to an offer sheet, and we match and trade.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Agent Zero looked really good tonight.

Bynum was also great.

If the Wiz keep this up, I might actually watch some regular season NBA this year.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by wade moore

If the Wiz keep this up, I might actually watch some regular season NBA this year.

I would love to see the Wizards with EVERYONE healthy. They are easily a playoff team in the East if they are healthy

[Samdari]

Chris Paul - of course
Deron Williams - yes
Derrick Rose - probably
Dwyane Wade - not a PG
Brandon Roy? - not even close to a PG
Devin Harris? - maybe?
Russell Westbrook? - what does he do better than Rondo?
Brandon Jennings - AI without the desire to win

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by stevew

Good win for the Celtics tonight. Cavs display the ability to get no scoring out of positions 2-10 in the rotation, including virtually nothing off the bench. Hopefully this will be corrected.

I think the Celtics proved that the Cavs haven't improved one bit since last season. The lack of athletic big men does not allow them to defend the high pick and roll and they still don't have a conistent 2nd offensive option - its Lebron or bust. Mo Williams isn't that guy and Shaq can't be that guy anymore - notice how Boston didn't resort to hack-a-Shaq last night. They didn't have to. Perkins kept him away from dunk range and that's all they need to do to defend him now.

LeBron is wasting his time in Cleveland - how much better off could he be in New Jersey next year? First he stays in the weaker conference so his chances to go to the Finals stay higher but more importantly a lineup of Harris (emerging PG who can consistently score), Lee (could spot up all day for three with Harris, LeBron and Lopez in the lineup plus a very good defender), LeBron, Yi (wild card but not bad if he's your weakest starter) and Brook Lopez (already one of the better centers in the East). Plus you would have Terrence Williams, CDR and whoever their lottery pick is in the next draft and probably still cap room to sign someone else decent. They've got 10 guys committed to only about 18 million next season and that includes Harris, Lee, Yi, Lopez, CDR and Williams - LeBron gets his 15 or whatever plus the 2-3m for their lotto pick - that's only 35 million in salary. That alone puts him better off than he is now and there's room to sign a big-time four man if they want to. How sick would it be if Bosh signed too? If the cap drops to say 50m that would put them right there.

It's a bunch of what-ifs but surely there are going to be legit options out there for LeBron and he needs to look at them because the Cavs don't know WTF they are doing.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I would love to see the Wizards with EVERYONE healthy. They are easily a playoff team in the East if they are healthy

Totally agree - of course Jamison is already injured.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Totally agree - of course Jamison is already injured.

I just looked it up, and the last time Arenas, Butler, and Jamison were all on the floor together was back in '07. Wow.

[whomario]

Just watched the Cavs-Celtics game and while the Celtics really looked like a better team, it´s still allways a sight to see James play. Incredible athlete, just unreal at times.

Here his 2 Fastbreak-blocks on Rondo and Allen