Werewolf XLI - Apocalypse Awakens - Game over!

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Indeed I do if ignobleness idiots insist in inviting inevitable impairment of victory.

Is this V for Vendetta? I didn't see that one either.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Silver Moon, any thoughts on today's actions? Gambit will be gone all day tomorrow, so he needs to get a handle on what we will be doing now, if possible.

thoughts on today's actions...like who we should be looking to attack tomorrow? i'm honestly not sure right now Gambit.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Admirable.

Unfortunately, I see two problems here:

1) An attack and an immobilization is an awful lot of energy to expend on a Day 1 target, particularly when it's a pin-the-tail target. We haven't even had night actions to try to ascertain anybody's loyalties. That probably isn't the best time to be "bold," as you put it.

Why would you expend that kind of energy when a Day 2 vote might be even more critical?

2) 3/4 of your team laid into Tony within 15 minutes of one another, basically, with irrevocable attacks. You were the first three to cast stones. There was no way for any of you to back off, and the early attacks set the tone for the entire snowball. Part of me wonders if the forcefulness of your outburst was intended that way.

Energy means different things to different players now doesn't it? I had believed my powers stronger than they were and wished to mitigate what I saw as ineveitable backlash against me by Ironman. Alas it didn't matter.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Is this V for Vendetta? I didn't see that one either.

I've never seen the movie or read the comics so any resemblance is merely coincidental.

[Poli]

I would expect Magneto wouldn't have time for such trivial matters, anyways.

[Alan T]

Ok with changes, adding in my missing votes from Juggernaught and Sinister, and modifying Barkeep by -1, I get:


Iron Man: 19 (13 counted for) (+5 Anxiety) (+2 Barkeep) = (20 counted for)
Mystique: 11 (6 counted for)
Cannonball: 9.5 (7 counted for)
Magneto: 4 (2 counted for)

Still something a bit off on Iron Man, unless Anxiety is 5 total (4+1) which makes it even out.

[DaddyTorgo]

[ooc]

i think we should look at those who laid into Iron Man in the middle. It's a traditional wolfish hiding place to be sure, but that's because it's the best.

are you going to be around before deadline tomorrow CR? [/ooc]

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Admirable.

Unfortunately, I see two problems here:

1) An attack and an immobilization is an awful lot of energy to expend on a Day 1 target, particularly when it's a pin-the-tail target. We haven't even had night actions to try to ascertain anybody's loyalties. That probably isn't the best time to be "bold," as you put it.

Why would you expend that kind of energy when a Day 2 vote might be even more critical?

2) 3/4 of your team laid into Tony within 15 minutes of one another, basically, with irrevocable attacks. You were the first three to cast stones. There was no way for any of you to back off, and the early attacks set the tone for the entire snowball. Part of me wonders if the forcefulness of your outburst was intended that way.

I can speak for #2 myself. We were online all morning and other than a few people here or there, our team was the only one discussing anything. We discussed possible candidates and then decided to go for IronMan. We moved as a team, but it was by no means a 15 minute deal, we talked about various candidates for quite a while before that.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Energy means different things to different players now doesn't it? I had believed my powers stronger than they were and wished to mitigate what I saw as ineveitable backlash against me by Ironman. Alas it didn't matter.

I'm still not sure how much good resisting backlash by Iron Man does you unless you think you may face several attacks and blunting or resisting Iron Man's might be the key to avoiding lynch.

Again, especially so early, with no real idea of what everybody's motives are.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Silver Moon, any thoughts on today's actions? Gambit will be gone all day tomorrow, so he needs to get a handle on what we will be doing now, if possible.

(Silver Surfer)

I do not know where we should go now. It is regrettable that we have lost an important ally.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I'm still not sure how much good resisting backlash by Iron Man does you unless you think you may face several attacks and blunting or resisting Iron Man's might be the key to avoiding lynch.

Again, especially so early, with no real idea of what everybody's motives are.

Because the expenditure of energy was essentially meaningless to me and I would much rather be at full health than not.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I can speak for #2 myself. We were online all morning and other than a few people here or there, our team was the only one discussing anything. We discussed possible candidates and then decided to go for IronMan. We moved as a team, but it was by no means a 15 minute deal, we talked about various candidates for quite a while before that.

Makes sense.

But one vote might have been sufficient to trigger action by others, if that's what you sought. A rapid-fire attack once you chose to move basically assured that the only way Iron Man wasn't going to get railroaded was if another candidate arose who drew sufficient ire from other heroes.

Particularly since, once committed, joining another fight in the same day would put any or each of you at a disadvantage moving forward.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Because the expenditure of energy was essentially meaningless to me and I would much rather be at full health than not.

You'd have recovered.

Wish I could say the same for poor Tony.

[Talgian]

Hmm, bad results tonight. Sorry my activity has been so curt, I imagine it will free up much more over the course of the weekend and next week.

[Alan T]

Looking things over, it actually was a discussion over 100 posts and 2 hours 15 minutes to decide on Ironman. I'm sure I missed some stuff, but you were actually online during alot of this Cpt America, I'm suprised you don't remember this better.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

(Mystique)

Mutants First, I will be unavailable after 7:30pm tonight until after lynch. I'll be able to read the board, but not post.

So, I would like to decide what we need to do so that I know what we are doing. Since Day 1 is so random, do we want to go with a random person or use some "Who would Apocalypse pick?" logic to figure out who we attack today?

Originally Posted by Alan T

(warpath)

Normally on day 1 I don't have a problem throwing out a vote early on since you can just change it later. Since in this game once you do an attack, you've used your attack I want to be a bit more cautious is all. We can decide on some plan of action before you have to go, but I would like to look further into what things happen today before I am ready to make a move.

-Do you go after someone in a larger team and risk the retalliation of that team?
- Do you go after someone who isn't in a team or on a smaller team to be able to battle off any form of retalliation that may come?

We also had Silver Moon offer a loose alliance at least in the early going while we might have mutual goals to accomplish that we should consider.

-Do we team up with them and go after someone making it very tough for the other person to defend themselves?


Also in selecting a target, I guess everyone has different type of attacks and are vulnerable to certain types of things.

-Do we choose someone less likely to have some insane defense like Hulk or someone to make sure we get the most bang to our buck?

Originally Posted by spleen1015

(Mystique)

Mutants First, what do you guys think about attacking Hawkeye(Chief Rum) today?

Originally Posted by Alan T

I would rather avoid attacking anyone on Silver Moon at least day 1 as Moon (Blade) has shown himself interesting in working for a common goal early on.

My thoughts would be early on to either show Doom that he is all talk and look at someone on his team, or perhaps look at the small pairing of Capt. America and Iron Man as those both are players whom I would have chosen as Apocolypse.

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

[Magneto]
I think attacking the Captain America/Ironman duo makes sense. I would lean slightly towards Eagles (Ironman) since I think he'd be slightly more likely to be chosen since he's a "big name" FOFCer (which reminds me that I need to start his FTB thread). Anyhow what does Team Silver think about an Ironman attack?

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Blade your opinion on iron man?

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok then with enough loose support from my team and even looser support from our potential allies I'm going to be bold and

Attack Ironman
Impede Ironman

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Impede should be
Immobilize Ironman

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I'll support you Barkeep.

Attack Ironman

Originally Posted by Alan T

Guess I will go along with my team

Attack Ironman


Hoops, just trying to make sure I understand how this works. We all have energy totals, so this attack uses up one of my energy correct? So now my energy is (original energy minus one). If I later choose to do a second attack today, its 1 more energy point or is it 2 additional energy points? (1 for the attack and 1 for being a second attack)?

[Barkeep49]

There were other comments on ironman in there as well between my asking Blade his opinion and my attacking.

[Bonegavel]

(Wolverine)

It seems too obvious for Magneto, if he was evil. But it can't be overlooked that Tony was not only not evil, but was one of the 12.

That means if this was an accident it was a 50/50 shot for Magneto to pick a 12'er (5 evil+8 not 12 = 13 then minus 1 for himself makes 12 and 12). A coin toss on the first night with such conviction was thrown into the first salvo?

[SackAttack]

Here's what I see.

"Attack one of those guys, they're who I'D have chosen."

"I'd go after Iron Man, because he's a big name FOFCer."

"Form of a weasel, attack!"

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

[ooc]

i think we should look at those who laid into Iron Man in the middle. It's a traditional wolfish hiding place to be sure, but that's because it's the best.

are you going to be around before deadline tomorrow CR? [/ooc]

[ooc]Unfortunately no, not after I leave for work in the morning. I work both of my jobs tomorrow, and won't be home until well after deadline.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Makes sense.

But one vote might have been sufficient to trigger action by others, if that's what you sought. A rapid-fire attack once you chose to move basically assured that the only way Iron Man wasn't going to get railroaded was if another candidate arose who drew sufficient ire from other heroes.

Particularly since, once committed, joining another fight in the same day would put any or each of you at a disadvantage moving forward.

Well I guess my question in return would be:

What is the point of being in a team if you do not act as a team? This is something I wondered earlier today as people brought up various things. We obviously didn't form these teams based on trust (At least I didn't, since I don't know who is bad or good).

My reasons for forming a team and voting as a team:

1) To try to figure out possible bad guys by doing the math from team votes.
2) To be able to have support/friends to help keep you alive longer.
3) To try to work together and brainstorm and find a common place to push and use the team bonus to enable your own agenda gets pushed rather than others (who may or may not be part of apocolypse.

Now I've seen people who didnt vote as teams today which invalidates #1.
I have seen people who didn't really support their teammates to try to work out some alliance with others to keep their team mate alive which meant #2 didn't help Ironman today.
I have seen people who just voted whichever way they wanted without much discussion with their team which invalidates #3.

So my question to others would be.. Why in the world did you form up in a team with people who you don't trust who you have no intentions of discussing the vote with and have no desire to protect?

Like them or hate them, I know at least with Magneto and Mystique they will be here during the day when I am to discuss possible moves and we'll work together to try to figure out the best moves. Could one of them be part of Apocolypse's team? Perhaps! But the more they communicate, the more likely it might be to catch them in a lie.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

(Wolverine)

It seems too obvious for Magneto, if he was evil. But it can't be overlooked that Tony was not only not evil, but was one of the 12.

That means if this was an accident it was a 50/50 shot for Magneto to pick a 12'er (5 evil+8 not 12 = 13 then minus 1 for himself makes 12 and 12). A coin toss on the first night with such conviction was thrown into the first salvo?

Yeah. 50/50 are not the kind of odds I'd go in guns blazing on, particularly as the Horsemen have the advantage of knowing who the Twelve are. We don't.

Could it be an accident? Sure. I'd be more inclined to believe that if not for his Immobilize action.

[Poli]

Magneto, I submit to you this quote from V for Vendetta. You'll soon see why I made that connection.

"Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. "

[Barkeep49]

Except there's a first mover advantage here. If I'm going to attack someone I want to make sure it's good for all it's worth. The longer something is discussed publicly the more likely it is that someone will throw up some sort of defense. I agree with all of what Alan said. I acted in that same manner and I'm guessing spleen did as well. Perhaps that's why we formed as a team: we have a like view of how it should be used.

Any vote, as you point out, in this game is strong. So why not just accept your strength and go with it? I did. Why would you want to appear weak to Apocalypse?

Now I cannot decide if it is shame on others for appearing to want to falsely lynch me two games in a row for the same reason or if it's shame on me for not varying my game. I think I'll have to go with shame on me.

[Barkeep49]

Thanks for the quote Ardent. Hoops had pm'ed me saying it was v for Vendettaesque.

[Barkeep49]

The more I think about it the more amazed I am that so many of those who are supposedly super would like to play not to lose rather than play to win. I play to win. I make no excuses about it. It is this sort of attitude which will save us from the menace we face not your pansy "let's just wait for stuff to happen to us" approach. I am all for discussion and logic and will continue to use both. But let us not pretend that our weaknesses are virtues. Oh no. Weaknesses are weaknesses. Period.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Thanks for the quote Ardent. Hoops had pm'ed me saying it was v for Vendettaesque.

I have a feeling you would enjoy it.

[DaddyTorgo]

hoops, in light of CR's membership in a team, could he cede the power of determining the target of his attack to his team if he won't be present?

i doubt it, but i figure it's better than him putting in a random attack tonight which can't be withdrawn. otherwise he's stuck with no attack.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hoops, in light of CR's membership in a team, could he cede the power of determining the target of his attack to his team if he won't be present?

i doubt it, but i figure it's better than him putting in a random attack tonight which can't be withdrawn. otherwise he's stuck with no attack.

Conditional orders are a really slippery slope in a game that is time-sensitive like this one is.

The other worry is that even if I limit it to a basic attack it still essentially doubles the power of one player's (on his team) attack because he will be acting for two people when that might not be the outcome if they are there to see it.

I'm willing to take an order via e-mail, as well as provide a synopsis of events, if that helps someone without access at work. PM me for details. But I can't have the attack placed in the fashion that you are suggesting.

[Bonegavel]

(Wolverine)

We can't cry over spilled milk (even if it is red and gold). I say we need to take out another big gun like Hulk. I'm guessing most have used at least a decent part of their energy today and won't be able fight off a decent attack.

One of us is going to die tonight and I hope you realize my value and give me some defense before it's too late.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Conditional orders are a really slippery slope in a game that is time-sensitive like this one is.

The other worry is that even if I limit it to a basic attack it still essentially doubles the power of one player's (on his team) attack because he will be acting for two people when that might not be the outcome if they are there to see it.

I'm willing to take an order via e-mail, as well as provide a synopsis of events, if that helps someone without access at work. PM me for details. But I can't have the attack placed in the fashion that you are suggesting.

that's fair enough. just trying to find a solution for the poor guy.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

that's fair enough. just trying to find a solution for the poor guy.

Thank you, Professor. It might be for the best for me to conserve my energy for our use after tomorrow. I may confer with hoopsguy on the possibilities using emails, but this might be to our advantage in the coming days.

[DaddyTorgo]

ok, i've got early work tomorrow so i'm off to bed in a minute here. i'll be back around 2pm tomorrow i'd say

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

ok, i've got early work tomorrow so i'm off to bed in a minute here. i'll be back around 2pm tomorrow i'd say

Dittos for me and bed. I'll hopefully be able to check on and off throughout the day at work.

[Talgian]

Bed for me as well. Hopefully this evening will carry for fewer dire consequences than the day.

[spleen1015]

It is nice to see that I have to save the world with a bunch of cowards. Wait until I am no longer available and pile on me when I can't return fire. Nicely done.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

(Wolverine)

We can't cry over spilled milk (even if it is red and gold). I say we need to take out another big gun like Hulk. I'm guessing most have used at least a decent part of their energy today and won't be able fight off a decent attack.

One of us is going to die tonight and I hope you realize my value and give me some defense before it's too late.

I've hardly used any at all, and Doom may not know who will die tonight, but he does know who will die tomorrow.

{points at Wolverine}

[Poli]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

It is nice to see that I have to save the world with a bunch of cowards. Wait until I am no longer available and pile on me when I can't return fire. Nicely done.

Don't look at me.

[Tyrith]

This is your friendly other moderator speaking. I say other because some of you have been...ahem...negligent about including me on your PMs. I must request that this end, or else I might become somewhat less friendly. You have been warned. Good night!

[hoopsguy]

Note - there is a rule update related to health. I will append this to the rules post as well.

If a character is driven below 25% of their health, but still lives into the next day, they will be listed at 25% of their health (rounding up) heading into the night cycle. Regular healing will take place at that time.

[Abe Sargent]

I have conn problems. Won't be on much until resolution

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I have conn problems. Won't be on much until resolution

Resolution of what? Night actions? The game?

[Mr. Wednesday]

So far, we seem to be long (rather than short) on damage. In particular consideration of the primary target of the day, I don't think that should be a surprise; Apocalypse and his Horsemen will have been happy enough to let the teams unleash their full brunt against Iron Man.

[hoopsguy]

PMs going out now, posted Night 1 results to follow.

[Grammaticus]

Hey HULK, hows it goin?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Hey HULK, hows it goin?

HULK JUST GOT HOME FROM WORK. HULK GOING TO BED NOW!!!

HULK SLEEP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Grammaticus]

Unfortunately, I'm headed in the other direction. Up from sleep and off to work.

[Poli]

Good. I'm not dead yet.

[hoopsguy]

There is concern in the air, as Apocalypse's forces seized the upper-hand on Day 1. As the heroes scatter for the evening, no clear consensus emerges for the next move.

A BOOM! wakes all from their slumber. The heroes converge on the site from which the sound originated to find a shattered golden horse on the ground, but no bodies. Clearly there was a struggle, but everyone is present and accounted for to start the day.

Day 2 has begun.

[Alan T]

(Warpath)

Well it sounds like something happened last night. Looks like night 1 was a bit luckier than day 1.

[Poli]

Right on!