Werewolf XCVIII - 24 Day Game Over - Post 2899

[Autumn]

I was also bummed I didn't get scanned at all. I had tried to be a little suspicious early on, not enough to get lynched but enough to get scanned. That's harder than I thought lol

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Jackal did you try to let us know you had "sympathies" towards us?

I asked hoops at the beginning of the game whether it was moderator flavor or a hint that I could be converted, and he said "both?", so I wasn't sure how much impact it would have, and I had no idea if you would be looking for my kind of role or not. So I played the game as a villager, since that's what I was.

[The Jackal]

And with people slinging credit at each other for playing good games here left and right I'm going to pat myself on the back for being under intense suspicion almost every day and yet every lynch after the first two making the right choice (except for a near messeup on Telle).

[EagleFan]

dola: that should have read "Major victory" condition. I could have won with the wolves but after Michelle was lynched I earned a major victory condition of seeing the person responsible die.

Based on Alan's post about the lynch votes I thought he was involved in teh extra vote and that was tied in. I was asking Thom to have the wolves go after you that night but I guess they had already decided that anyway. Unfortunately I didn't get the PM saying the person was killed so I guess it wasn't you.

PB, did you have only the win condition of being one of the final 6 or did you actually win with the village? The answer to this may affect my day one voting pattern.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

3.) The wolves could only convert one person in the game - Jackal/"George Mason". So it kind of sucked for them that they planted evidence on him to make him scan as bad. Especially after they had discussed attacking/converting him on their first kill ... I do not think that Jackal was ever a serious conversion candidate in their talks after that point.

Sorry about that wolves, if I had any idea this was the case I may have tried to drop a hint but after that first day I was just trying to stay alive.

[The Jackal]

Good game BK and hoops. The game mechanisms worked out very well.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Sorry about that wolves, if I had any idea this was the case I may have tried to drop a hint but after that first day I was just trying to stay alive.

And you guys kept voting for me.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And you guys kept voting for me.

Towards the end you were one of the only people on the untrusted list that wasn't a wolf, lol, you were all I had to go at.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Towards the end you were one of the only people on the untrusted list that wasn't a wolf, lol, you were all I had to go at.

Yeah, you didn't really have a choice, but early on with Thom and Pass and those votes, when they stuck on me that one day I was pretty sure both of them were wolves. I had a feeling you were a wolf but I didn't want to press it, certainly didn't realize you were the cunning.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Once the PMs went down I was afraid he would use his power and therefore exclusively pick up on wolf PMs. Would that not have worked? That could have been deadly.

And yes, it was like magic for us how those first days went, where your role suspcions got villagers in trouble. I think that was just bad luck, as indeed we did have to hide ourselves behind fake roles, and were very afraid of being found out. But since that didn't work for you early on we were able to cast doubt on that approach and go with voting records, which of course didn't mean anything since no wolves had been up.

The biggest reason I was afraid of Chief dying was that I was sure you'd be on to me then, DT, because I had just cribbed his power and passed the results along to you. I was sure you'd notice that they were the same and start pressing me (and at that point I had to either fake it or use our cover identities).



Yeah, I tried to stretch out the lynches with the hopes of getting more than one night kill per day, or at least as quckly as possible. I think BK and Hoops had the formula more balanced than that though. But if you guys had gone all out the first couple of days it would have been a bloodbath I imagine.

Ooof - brilliant point on Schmidty's power. Neither of us thought of that apparently.

I think I was onto something with CR's power being unable to be verified, and tyrith's being unable to be reliably verified, and i also had isiddiqui on the list of "hard to verify, could be wolf even if verified". i could have pushed harder on thomkal early after tyrith's death also based on his role, but it seemed like something best left till later in case he was telling us the truth and it netted us a wolf.

I was so frigging swamped with information that I didn't even notice you'd just cribbed Chief's powers Autumn, to be honest. Surprised nobody else pointed it out actually. But you were still suspect in my book because I knew something was up with EagleFan and 2/3 of the names you delivered to me early in the game were EF and CR. I also see now how your information stopped coming when CR died, although I attributed that at the time to other things, and frankly it was never a huge source of info or clearing anybody for me, so I didn't really press on it.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Sorry about that wolves, if I had any idea this was the case I may have tried to drop a hint but after that first day I was just trying to stay alive.

I never saw any of the night kill discussion but assume they never went after you because you were always under the gun.

[Alan T]

So was James Heller not in the game? Part of my role revolved around that player, but my role did not indicate if I knew Heller would be good or bad and I figured that I did not want to tie myself to an unknown in PMs to anyone.. so I did not mention his name once to anyone.

It does not look like he was played by anyone, so was he on the list of names given to the wolves at the start? It might have been an interesting reveal after I died and my role was revealed if one of the wolves had claimed to be Heller.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I felt JAG played a very smart game. His initial PM to DT was really a thing of brilliance laying out why, despite being a terrorist on the show, he was good in the game.

yeah - i didn't mention that. Kudos to JAG for his initial PM, and I honestly never really thought he was a bad guy. His role could have been very powerful, but a) he didn't last long enuf to use it, and b) he selected only villagers with it (IIRC) so he said (and i agreed) to hold off on "activating it" until we knew those people's allegience

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Yeah, you didn't really have a choice, but early on with Thom and Pass and those votes, when they stuck on me that one day I was pretty sure both of them were wolves. I had a feeling you were a wolf but I didn't want to press it, certainly didn't realize you were the cunning.

Pretty funny, since you kept bitching and moaning about all these villagers going after you.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Quieter? Wasn't I second in posts in this thread behind you?

idk - call it perception.

glad to see you survived the interrogation.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Pretty funny, since you kept bitching and moaning about all these villagers going after you.

Actually when I was bitching and moaning it was Danny who was leading the charge against me, so I feel justified.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

idk - call it perception.

glad to see you survived the interrogation.

Yeah I'm glad my interrogation sealed the win. I sure wanted to post some things in the past 36 hours but the village was gonna win either way, I figured there was at least one more wolf left though.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I never saw any of the night kill discussion but assume they never went after you because you were always under the gun.

My original plan was to keep myself somewhat under the gun so that I could try and have a 1 vs 1 vote with a wolf later in the game and then use my ability - but I quickly realized that using my ability would gain me very little trust, since DT had long before said that it was an ability that could be proven in the thread but in no way cleared me, which is the truth.

[The Jackal]

So what kind of evidence did you plant on me? Victor Drazen's passport or something?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Actually when I was bitching and moaning it was Danny who was leading the charge against me, so I feel justified.

Sometimes pressing people reveals information. After that episode with you I felt it unlikely you were a wolf and became suspicious of Thomkal for his quick move onto you after my analysis which helped set the second lynch candidate early. I said I wanted to vote Thomkal when I got back later though it was too late for that movement. Then after the CR stuff I was sure he was a wolf.

If I hadn't pressed you so hard, it's possible I put my vote somewhere else before I leave and never come back on. I then never get PB's PM and the push for Chief never happens, he doesn't die, who knows what happens with Telle and whether Henry learns that information, ad we lose the game! So really, you being under fire set in motion the chain of events which won the villagers the game!

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Danny

So really, you being under fire set in motion the chain of events which won the villagers the game!

Huzza!

[The Jackal]

I didn't think I went over the top too much with my complaints about being targeted, sorry if it discouraged people.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So was James Heller not in the game? Part of my role revolved around that player, but my role did not indicate if I knew Heller would be good or bad and I figured that I did not want to tie myself to an unknown in PMs to anyone.. so I did not mention his name once to anyone.

It does not look like he was played by anyone, so was he on the list of names given to the wolves at the start? It might have been an interesting reveal after I died and my role was revealed if one of the wolves had claimed to be Heller.

I think one of us was pretending to be James Heller, actually.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So what kind of evidence did you plant on me? Victor Drazen's passport or something?

Something in your computer. The Victor Drazen stuff I just made up in an attempt to get you interrogated. Unfortunately it turned into a lynch runoff instead, which was not what I had hoped for. Either way it was a last minute ploy and clearly did not work.

[The Jackal]

So, did knowing extra roles that weren't in the game help you?

Before the game started I thought that was important for the wolves but after realizing that knowing character names meant nothing, was it necessary? I think that kind of mechanic is only necessary when some or most roles are revealed pre-game.

[PurdueBrad]

I think I saw the question three times. My goal, or at least plan, was to lay low for the first three days (two of which I was driving for) and then when I started to draw some attention, then I was going to contact the wolves about cutting a deal. However, when I came under immediate pressure, I was desperate for help. I knew at that point, I was basically screwed and wasn't sure that the wolves had the juice to move the lynch. I then talked to EF and DT I believe, laying out my exact role. The one thing I offered DT was the possibility of finding a wolf for him later (as an attempt to extend the game as we approached endgame so I could try and extend it to six).

My move to alert DT (and then ultimately Danny) about CR was with this purpose: I was going to stay on Telle, just as I had been signalled to do. I was hoping that it would be played off that someone's power told them that CR was a wolf and he would get lynched and turn up wolf, thus earning me trust with the wolves as I did what I said AND with the village as Danny and DT would know that I got them a wolf. I figured that moment was my ticket to end game depending on how it went down.

Danny did a great job of garnering votes but I figured I was screwed from the "I got a PM from someone about..." moment.

So my overall goal was to play both sides in making this happen. I didn't quite anticipate the run that the village was able to put together afterwards, particularly when Henry was able to put together that no wolves voted for Telle. That basically cut out a HUGE number of uncleared players.

Anyway, I understand day 1 votes from here on out as I did try to play both sides. I really felt that dropping CR's name would get me the trust of the village AND I had hoped it would pass under the wolves radar that it was me and it was perhaps someone else. That would've been perfect for getting me through. Well done seeing through it wolves.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I didn't think I went over the top too much with my complaints about being targeted, sorry if it discouraged people.

nah...i don't think you were over the top

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

nah...i don't think you were over the top

Thanks DT. And good job with Jack, I know people were doubting you at many turns (both villagers with noble intentions and wolves with evil ones), but you handled the role very well.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

So, did knowing extra roles that weren't in the game help you?

Before the game started I thought that was important for the wolves but after realizing that knowing character names meant nothing, was it necessary? I think that kind of mechanic is only necessary when some or most roles are revealed pre-game.

It was definitely necessary. Three of the five of us were from the list of TV villains. My character was a mole in the show and I was the cunning. So basically we would have been easy to pick out if you went by the characters, I don't think things were as random as the rules suggested ( or as random as I tried to therefore suggest they must be, in self defense). I was afraid I would get heat for admitting to my character, but no one paid attention.

It was good to have the roles not in the game, therefore, but it was difficult making up powers that were believable yet hard to verify.

[DaddyTorgo]

PB - I think the wolves took a big chance trusting you, and frankly I'm pretty surprised that they did. I always find it hard as a wolf to trust a neutral player. Probably some primal human thing about wolves being dangerous I suppose. I don't think what you did was anything horrific - you had your own win conditions and played for them all along. I knew that since the first PM that you sent me.

My decision to trust you that early was probably the only time that I ever really trusted anyone that hadn't been scanned by NFG or interrogated by me. And I wasn't fully sure of your intentions up until you delivered Chief Rum. At that point I elevated you on my trust list and thought "okay he pans out...makes no sense for a wolf to give us another wolf at this juncture (especially as that stuff started playing out), and resolved to try to get you along to your victory condition -- with the caveat as i noted that if we were looking for wolves in the CoT you should be our first suspect.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I think I saw the question three times. My goal, or at least plan, was to lay low for the first three days (two of which I was driving for) and then when I started to draw some attention, then I was going to contact the wolves about cutting a deal. However, when I came under immediate pressure, I was desperate for help. I knew at that point, I was basically screwed and wasn't sure that the wolves had the juice to move the lynch. I then talked to EF and DT I believe, laying out my exact role. The one thing I offered DT was the possibility of finding a wolf for him later (as an attempt to extend the game as we approached endgame so I could try and extend it to six).

My move to alert DT (and then ultimately Danny) about CR was with this purpose: I was going to stay on Telle, just as I had been signalled to do. I was hoping that it would be played off that someone's power told them that CR was a wolf and he would get lynched and turn up wolf, thus earning me trust with the wolves as I did what I said AND with the village as Danny and DT would know that I got them a wolf. I figured that moment was my ticket to end game depending on how it went down.

Danny did a great job of garnering votes but I figured I was screwed from the "I got a PM from someone about..." moment.

So my overall goal was to play both sides in making this happen. I didn't quite anticipate the run that the village was able to put together afterwards, particularly when Henry was able to put together that no wolves voted for Telle. That basically cut out a HUGE number of uncleared players.

Anyway, I understand day 1 votes from here on out as I did try to play both sides. I really felt that dropping CR's name would get me the trust of the village AND I had hoped it would pass under the wolves radar that it was me and it was perhaps someone else. That would've been perfect for getting me through. Well done seeing through it wolves.

Yeah, that comment from Danny did make it obvious to us. I was absolutely sure even before you did that though that you were playing us, as I think Danny and DT had dropped hints about talking to you, and I knew you must have struck a deal with both sides.

Well done, though, I would have done the same in your case. I still may vote for you day one though :-)

[PurdueBrad]

Autumn, completely understand, that was a tough role to play, particularly given the bad luck of the D1/D2 lynch efforts.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

PB - I think the wolves took a big chance trusting you, and frankly I'm pretty surprised that they did. I always find it hard as a wolf to trust a neutral player. Probably some primal human thing about wolves being dangerous I suppose. I don't think what you did was anything horrific - you had your own win conditions and played for them all along. I knew that since the first PM that you sent me.

WEll ,up to that point we had not trusted him with anything. He had originally asked for the names of two wolves. Instead we just gave him a code to identify himself and told him we may do the same if we ever want him to get his vote off of us. I didn't think it was safe to use that though, better he not have anything on us.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Here is a list of the remaining roles in the game...

What about me

I was alive

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I still may vote for you day one though :-)

If it helps at all, I did feel completely terrible watching Danny have to go through that with no better defense then "I got it in a PM". I bombarded Hoops and BK for a good half hour because I had to tell somebody that I am a horrible person.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

was a bummer for Thomkal that his fake-reveal to me was pretty much the same as Tyrith's role.

I probably could have pressed that harder earlier to be honest, but after D1 and D2 the idea of lynching based solely on content of reveals wasn't really hugely popular with anyone.

But it all worked out in the end.

Yeah that's why I didn't send you any more PM's after the first one-didn't want to push you on my power after seeing Tyrith's.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

If it helps at all, I did feel completely terrible watching Danny have to go through that with no better defense then "I got it in a PM". I bombarded Hoops and BK for a good half hour because I had to tell somebody that I am a horrible person.

I wonder if at that point we should have had Chief come out, or EF, and say, "Yeah, I know, from PB. He's working with our side too. I wonder what story he gave you ... "

[path12]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think one of us was pretending to be James Heller, actually.

That's who ISiddiqui revealed as.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I wonder if at that point we should have had Chief come out, or EF, and say, "Yeah, I know, from PB. He's working with our side too. I wonder what story he gave you ... "

would have been amusing to say the least. might have bought chief another day.

i think one thing PB did that hasn't been discussed yet was to suggest to me to look after he dropped the code-phrase in the thread and see who moved their votes off of him then, suggesting that there might be wolves there.

i'm not sure, but CR might have been on that list of people too. and i know briand was, which was why he got interrogated.

major props to brian for using his power to cut the time of my interrogation-recharging in half after i used it on him no less.

i was only able to use it every 72 hours...that seemed like a long time as the pace of the game started to pick up, so it was great to get it back in time to use it on jackal and thus catch autumn

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I actually did believe you Alan...and I liked having the ability to bounce things off of you via PM while you were alive, without trying to reveal too much about what I knew.

Which is why we tried to convert Alan

[path12]

hoops and BK, thanks for the game. I had a good time.

DT had a rough role and I think he handled it very well. Obviously Jack Bauer is going to be the clearinghouse of information and I think he did a good job in the three areas that counted most: being skeptical about what people were telling him, being circumspect in thread with his info and not bowing down to pressure when we missed a couple early.

henry was the star with using his power when he did. That is a totally improbable outcome and changed the game right there.

For my part, since I had a dual duke/hunter role I wanted to lay low early and let the seer/Jack/whoever find a wolf or two for me to toss the vote to. I had no idea that once I used the power it would have been presented without confirming it was me -- I would have never revealed in thread if that were the case, because being semi-trusted was perfect for lasting a long time -- catch a vote or two maybe along the way which would discourage me as a night kill target but still not be in real danger of getting lynched.

Looking over the rules, I do think that the conversion angle was a really tough one for the Conspiracy, but as has been mentioned henry blew the game open with his power and that's just a great break for the U S of A.

Thanks again.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i think one thing PB did that hasn't been discussed yet was to suggest to me to look after he dropped the code-phrase in the thread and see who moved their votes off of him then, suggesting that there might be wolves there.

Frighteningly here is the list I sent to DT between D1 and D2:

Jack Bauer, if I had to guess, based on the movement yesterday, here is my list of suspcious play for what it is worth. IF I am lynched today and you officially see my role, then maybe it'll give you something to go off of.

I think BrianD is a wolf, Telle is likely one too (and I think Brian is hiding his vote on her knowing that nobody has any reason to follow him there). After that, in order, my suspicions are:

Autumn
Chief Rum
Issquiddi

[PurdueBrad]

DT, I had completely forgotten about that and FUCK I wish I had been a villager, I would be very proud of that list with 3/5 right there.

[DaddyTorgo]

yah...kudos to Henry and NFG. NFG's info led to us being able to verify henry as being cleared and also confirm his list for the skeptics. And henry's using his power when he did really took a lot of the pressure off my back to have to drive people away from lynching those in the CoT without being too detailed about who they were and why they were there (and thus making them night-kill/conversion targets)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

DT, I had completely forgotten about that and FUCK I wish I had been a villager, I would be very proud of that list with 3/5 right there.

that list was awesome in hindsight. it led to me interrogating brian (he was my fallback guy for who was getting all my info if NFG died by the way), and moved CR up a notch on my suspicious list. it's also probably what led me to put telle out there as a lynch candidate

[DaddyTorgo]

i will go thru at lunch in an hour and post notable PM's

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No hard feelings, long ago a day 1-3 death was the norm for me, so I got over early deaths way back when.

As being a victim of a day 1 night kill after being away from WW for a while, I always sympthasize with those who go out early in the previous couple games plus the mod from the previous game if he/she is playing in the next one-and Jackal was brought up as one of our N1 kills, which would have really sucked given what we know now. If we have information on that person or we believe they may know something about us wolves that's another story. I just don't like voting out someone early again if we have no information on them, even if it means letting a good player like Alan live a little longer. I'm just too much of a softie to be a good wolf I guess.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I asked hoops at the beginning of the game whether it was moderator flavor or a hint that I could be converted, and he said "both?", so I wasn't sure how much impact it would have, and I had no idea if you would be looking for my kind of role or not. So I played the game as a villager, since that's what I was.

Ah I see, thanks for the explanation. I do think I should have been given a little more info on the type of conversion I could do then. The way I read it, we had a chance of converting anyone, just depended on the person and a die roll probably.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

And you guys kept voting for me.

ftr, i have now been right about you 3 times in a row.

for my part, i owe the village an apology for not being able to give this game nearly the attention it deserved...last week at work was brutal for me and i didnt have the time during the day to keep up.

i tried to be more active this week, but by the time i had the time to dive in, we were already in fish-in-a-barrel mode and i wasnt really much of anything but the cheerleader for the plan.

that said, i didnt really feel like i was needed...my role never came into play (i could change the vote of a CTU agent or Computer Analyst every 24 hours) because there were never any close votes or reveals of character names for me to even know who to adjust.

DT was the bus driver and for most of the week, i just felt like i was along for the ride (not saying you were pushy, just that you were the one with all the info, so the logical thing to do was to take cues from you)

I think the Jack role might have been a little bit too powerful because of the open PM thing..if we had the open PM ability but didnt know who Jack was right away and that he was 100% a good guy, it would have made the role less of a "god position"

overall, i think it was a fun game...the variable deadline was a little bit annoying, since I always try to be on at the lynch...i dont think i made one the entire game.

thanks hoops and BK, even if hoops didnt keep his promise to me.

[EagleFan]

I think the PB thing is that it could appear that he was only playing the wolves. He seemed to turn in the information fairly quickly and that set the whole game ending chain of events in motion.

Maybe if he waits another day or so before giving up the information he looks a little better in their (our) eyes.

Maybe if clap stays in the game a little longer it changes the complexion of the game (there must be good odds that he makes that typo at some point ). j/k


As for game feedback:

- Not a big fan of the mass PM mechanic. I like games playing out more in thread.

- Not a big fan of powers that could swing the game because of one event (the henry power). I know it's all up to chance but there is still a chance that something like that happens and in this case the wolves get punished for having a vote go perfectly for them (a villager lynched without them voting for the person).

+ I liked the role I was given, just wish that I had waited another day or two to make the decision to go underground and for which side. Granted I like traitor roles, at least when knowing something about the wolves.

+ The game was handled very well by the mods, quick responses to questions, good atmosphere.

+ I like the varied types of roles and powers given out. It can be fun when everyone has a chance to do something. Very good change of pace type of game. I would like to see how something like this plays out without the mass PM ability.