Thinking of getting into stock market trading...need advice/guidance!

[Mike Lowe]

Looking to start putting some money into stocks. Aside from that, I'm very new to it and am literally just starting out and looking for some advice from FOFC!

I'm open to both long-term and short-term earning options.

From the basic research I did, and the ample available time I have in my schedule, I'd like to go the online/discount broker route as it's cheaper and I can be a bit of a control freak.

So, where do I start? Do you HAVE to do things through a broker? If so, which company(ies) has the best rates for some realistic goals?

I'm not looking for a "get rich quick" sort of option or anything like that. Like I said, long-term earning but something too with some short term options where I could possibly bring in some extra income in a given month.

It's that easy, right?! lol

What's a realistic amount I'd have to start with?

[jbergey22]

These guys are good at offering advice on individual stocks.

http://www.fool.com/

The Motley Fool. Dont be fooled by the name. They are good.


I am not sure on the best online site to currently use however I can offer up some advice on your last question. Realistic amount?

You need to set your own goals and what you can afford. Realistic amount could mean so many things. What is the most you can afford to lose? How much are you trying to make? There is a very aggressive approach to investing and a safer approach to investing. You need to figure out which type you are as well.

[RainMaker]

Index fund at Vanguard for long-term investments. Don't try and pick individual stocks. You can get one started with them for $3000.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Buy low. Sell high.

[Young Drachma]

marketocracy.com is a good place to do some testing.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

What's a realistic amount I'd have to start with?

Take what I say with a grain of salt, this all comes from what I've read. I don't actually invest (yet).

I think many of the top online brokers require $2500-$5000 to open an account. Maybe that's changed.

Most mutual funds have a minimum buy in, usually in the $3000-$5000 range.

And if you want to get into ETFs and/or stocks, I'd say $5000 would be the absolute minimum to build a decent, diversified portfolio. Maybe less if you go with just ETFs. And if you do buy stocks, stick with good companies that offer a dividend.

Also, do not use any money you can not afford to lose when doing any kind of investing. If you can't afford to lose that $5000, stick with saving accounts, CDs and bonds. (Not saying that you shouldn't invest if losing that $5000 is going to hurt....obviously it would for most people. But if losing that money is going to force you to sell your house or send you to the welfare office or makes it so your kids go without some food or clothes for awhile, FFS, do not invest it!)

[Mike Lowe]

Thanks guys, I'll do some hunting today.

[SunDevil]

ZeroHedge | On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

[RendeR]

If you're in that much of a hurry to throw money away, I could use a couple grand to cover some unexpected expenses.

[Mike Lowe]

That fool site is right up my alley...gosh, I hope that's not a pun or irony haha

Anyway, I'm definitely interested in starting with the DRP/DSP route.

Which ones have free trades and can start with small amounts ($20-$1000)? The fool site says there are 1000's of them, but a Google search didn't turn up any names that seemed familiar or automatically trustworthy (if there is such a thing).

I'm definitely liking the route of bypassing brokers/brokerage fees.

So basically a place to buy/sell/trade DRP/DSP for free without brokers.

Thanks again folks!

[Autumn]

Asking FOFC for advice on how to trade stocks ... this should end well.

[sabotai]

Buy 1 share. If it goes down, buy 2 more shares. If keep going down, buy 4 more. Then 8, then 16! If not work, maybe stock market not for you.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

I'm not looking for a "get rich quick" sort of option or anything like that. Like I said, long-term earning but something too with some short term options where I could possibly bring in some extra income in a given month.

I don't have market investments, so standard disclosures. I am not a trader, a lawyer, follow any advice given at your own risk, blah blah.

But since you're soliciting opinions...I kind of feel like short-term buys are a fool's investment if you're not pursuing stock trading as a full-time gig.

Big-time investors typically have better resources when it comes to hearing bad news coming down the pipe, or sniffing out promising new ventures. They'll get priority on IPOs, things of that nature, precisely because of the resources they bring to the table and the stature involved in a fledgling public company attracting the attention of a Paul Allen or a Warren Buffett or another nom du jour.

If you go after short-term buys, you're going to be chasing the market. Can you make money doing that? Yeah, sure. But you also expose yourself to greater risk. I feel like for short term investments, there's better places to put your money. Less upside on the profit, but more upside for security and control.

[DanGarion]

Don't invest what you aren't ready to lose.

[Mike Lowe]

Huge bump!

Ok, things have been going really well with the index funds I've invested in. My question is this:

Since I've started investing into the index funds in my Roth IRA, 2 of the 3 have had returns of 26.5% and 24.5%, while the third is at 8%. Do I sell my shares in these and immediately re-buy them to "lock in" my earnings, or what I'm thinking is that it doesn't matter because I'd be reinvesting into the same accounts likely anyway...at a higher price.

Maybe it's a silly question, but I see the large returns and I just feel dumb doing nothing knowing it's going to come down again...but I guess it will go back up again too!

Thanks, guys! Excited to get the new FOF this weekend!

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Huge bump!

Ok, things have been going really well with the index funds I've invested in. My question is this:

Since I've started investing into the index funds in my Roth IRA, 2 of the 3 have had returns of 26.5% and 24.5%, while the third is at 8%. Do I sell my shares in these and immediately re-buy them to "lock in" my earnings, or what I'm thinking is that it doesn't matter because I'd be reinvesting into the same accounts likely anyway...at a higher price.

Maybe it's a silly question, but I see the large returns and I just feel dumb doing nothing knowing it's going to come down again...but I guess it will go back up again too!

Thanks, guys! Excited to get the new FOF this weekend!

Not sure I understand the question but all selling and re-buying will do is cost you commission and will not lock anything in. If you were talking about pulling some money out than that is a different story but still wouldn't require selling it all.

[Doug5984]

Not really following the question- a full sell / rebuy does nothing for you but cost... if you wanted to sort of lock in, you could sell your original invest amount and invest that in something else and leave just the gain... but really, think of it like those old rotisserie grills, set it, and forget it.

[Mike Lowe]

No, thanks Doug you already explained what I was looking for in a way. I guess I just felt dumb leaving it sit there, but since I'm not doing a damn thing with it, no need to make any moves.

[RainMaker]

If it's long term money, let it sit. You likely won't make the same returns over the next couple years but don't see a need to change anything.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

No, thanks Doug you already explained what I was looking for in a way. I guess I just felt dumb leaving it sit there, but since I'm not doing a damn thing with it, no need to make any moves.

The hardest part of investing is doing nothing

[sterlingice]

As the value of a dollar is fluid, there's no such thing as "locking in gains" (tho the cliche you hear more often is "locking in losses" when people sell at the bottom of the market). In theory, I imagine the average retiree's value is going up at roughly {stock market}-{average commission}%. So, for instance, if the stock market goes up 8% in a year, the average persons retirement goes up, say, 7%. So, if you take your money out of that market, you've really lost 7% for the year as compared with everyone else who stayed in. Of course, if the market drops for a year, then the opposite is true: staying out of the market could save you more than 1% against everyone else.

SI

[Subby]

Index funds are for the long haul. Low mgmt fees help earnings increase over more actively managed funds. If you are looking for quick returns you should have some money set aside for individual stock picking.

[Kodos]

I loves me some index funds.

[NobodyHere]

Sometimes I wonder why people bother gambling in Vegas when the stock market is available.

I mean with a Vegas Casino you're going to lose over the long term whereas with stocks you're likely to gain over the long term.

[Subby]

jbmagic has a pretty foolproof system for beating blackjack, but otherwise...

[Masked]

The only reason to sell the two funds that have gains is if you want to re-balance your portfolio. This suggestion only applies if you have set what your desired allocation should be (e.g. 50% domestic equity, 25% domestic bonds, 25% international), and usually, one would only re-balance no more than once a year.

If you don't re-balance periodically, the risk profile of your portfolio will change over time.

This is not want you were proposing, so I see only downsides in selling.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

But since you're soliciting opinions...I kind of feel like short-term buys are a fool's investment if you're not pursuing stock trading as a full-time gig.

I second this - buy on fundamentals and hold, don't play investments like you might a poker hand.

The ideal investment for me is a depressed stock with decent fundamentals which pays a dividend ....

Disclaimer - I'm not a professional at this; most of my investments I leave a professional to handle and only invest a small proportion of my savings (10%) myself - that way if I screw up its not something to jump under a bus about
For that reason (ie. jumping under busses) I encourage people to distribute savings between a few mediums (ie. cash, property, stocks etc.).

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Subby

jbmagic has a pretty foolproof system for beating blackjack, but otherwise...

Double your bet every time. Can't lose.

[Peregrine]

If you are interested in doing further long term investing, I have been very happy with doing DRIP investing (Dividend Reinvestment Plans.) Basically I just put in a chunk of money a month in some stable, long-term companies that have good dividends and reinvest any dividends - later on when I retire or whatever I just start taking the dividends as income. You buy the stocks through a transfer agent so the fees are minimal depending on the company, and you can track most of it online.

It's boring but seems effective and at least is an alternative to my index funds in my 401k.

[Young Drachma]

Marketocracy.com, Wall Street Raider (text sim) are useful tools for simulated trading with lots of money to develop an investment strategy of your own. For years, I've also used Yahoo's site to track portfolios of things I'd like to own in the future, etc., because it's helpful when you're dealing with limited resources.

It's a lot of gambling in a different way, but you can stay informed by using conventional information and being attentive to it. If you don't have time to do that, then you should stay conservative as others have said.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Marketocracy.com, Wall Street Raider (text sim) are useful tools for simulated trading with lots of money to develop an investment strategy of your own.

Thanks, I just dl this and it looks like just what I needed to play with.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Looking to start putting some money into stocks. Aside from that, I'm very new to it and am literally just starting out and looking for some advice from FOFC!

I'm open to both long-term and short-term earning options.

From the basic research I did, and the ample available time I have in my schedule, I'd like to go the online/discount broker route as it's cheaper and I can be a bit of a control freak.

So, where do I start? Do you HAVE to do things through a broker? If so, which company(ies) has the best rates for some realistic goals?

I'm not looking for a "get rich quick" sort of option or anything like that. Like I said, long-term earning but something too with some short term options where I could possibly bring in some extra income in a given month.

It's that easy, right?! lol

What's a realistic amount I'd have to start with?

It is actually reasonably easy.

There's some good advice in this thread and some bad advice in this thread. To establish at least some credibility: I majored in economics, worked in a bank, have spent a lot of time educating myself post college on investing mainly focused on people like Buffett, Lynch, and Graham, and I've managed my own investments for the past 15 years. I'm sure there's more qualified people than me on these boards to write about this subject, but at least understand that I'm not sitting in my mom's basement writing this post.

1. As an individual investor, your only time horizon is long. Anything else involves trying to time the market and that has been proven time and again to fail. And fail miserably. The only one who profits from that approach is the brokerage that collects your trade fees. Forget quants, technical trading, options, mad money, and all that other garbage you see in the media. It means nothing as a person who wants to retire on their own terms at a reasonable age.

2. Investing is not gambling. Investing is buying a piece of business, no matter how small a piece, that will provide you with a return on your investment because you own part of the business!

The business is generating cash flow, of which you own a %. For example, if Apple generated $1 in profit last year and you owned one share out of a hundred, you would be entitled to one penny if Apple went out of business tomorrow. No different than owning a local pizza shop.

Most investors don't think or understand that is the point of buying stock. Which means you can gain an advantage if you do understand you're buying into a business, not some random symbol on a website.

3. If you ignore the FUD that gets thrown around in the media and by financial institutions that don't have your best interests in mind it boils down to a couple of options:

A. Invest the time to educate yourself before doing anything. At minimum read up on the topic. At best, take Financial Accounting , Corporate Finance, and Intro Economics courses at your local college. They should require these to be taught at high schools.

B. Find a financial adviser you trust and talk about your goals with them. 80%+ will not be worth talking to, but you'll need to take the time to track down someone who genuinely cares about your welfare and is good at the job.

In either case, spend the time to do it right. It can have a huge impact on your future.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Subby

jbmagic has a pretty foolproof system for beating blackjack, but otherwise...

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Double your bet every time. Can't lose.

Martingale (probability theory) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia addresses jbmagic's can't-lose strategy.

History

Originally, martingale referred to a class of betting strategies that was popular in 18th-century France.[1][2] The simplest of these strategies was designed for a game in which the gambler wins his stake if a coin comes up heads and loses it if the coin comes up tails. The strategy had the gambler double his bet after every loss so that the first win would recover all previous losses plus win a profit equal to the original stake. As the gambler's wealth and available time jointly approach infinity, his probability of eventually flipping heads approaches 1, which makes the martingale betting strategy seem like a sure thing. However, the exponential growth of the bets eventually bankrupts its users, assuming the obvious and realistic i.e. finite bankrolls (one of the reasons casinos, though normatively enjoying a mathematical edge in the games offered to their patrons, impose betting limits). Stopped Brownian motion, which is a martingale process, can be used to model the trajectory of such games.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

B. Find a financial adviser you trust and talk about your goals with them. 80%+ will not be worth talking to, but you'll need to take the time to track down someone who genuinely cares about your welfare and is good at the job.

I have an old boss that transitioned into finance and my wife and I have begun to consult with him to start planning our retirement (we're in our early 50's).

It has been a godsend to work with someone I trust has my interests at heart. Plus we've learned that we are not in nearly the dire straits that I feared.

Point is, I think this is fantastic advice.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Index fund at Vanguard for long-term investments. Don't try and pick individual stocks. You can get one started with them for $3000.

If you listened to RM's advice and put the $3K into their S&P index fund on this date, you would have $4,524 today.

[sabotai]

Are you saying that I missed out or are you saying "FFS Sab, find $3k and put it in an index fund now!!"?

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Index fund at Vanguard for long-term investments. Don't try and pick individual stocks. You can get one started with them for $3000.

Index funds all the way

Check out canadiancouchpotato.com for an interesting perspective and some easy to understand explanations.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Are you saying that I missed out or are you saying "FFS Sab, find $3k and put it in an index fund now!!"?

People think the market is due for a downturn, but we've been hearing this for two years. I was hesitant to take the index fund approach almost dating back to RainMaker's post, and I've left a lot of money on the table because of it. I finally took the plunge a couple months ago, and we'll see if we're finally at the height or if it will be more of the same.

[Kodos]

Reminds me of a funny story. My grandmother gifted me $5,000 or something like that in 2000. Trying to behave more like an adult, I opted not to spend it on something frivolous, and instead opened up a Roth IRA. The first day, I enjoyed a small gain. The next day, the market went to shit with the dot.com bubble. It took years just to get back to my initial investment. For a long time, I wished I had just bought myself a couch. (The Roth IRA is up over $10,000 now, so I feel better.)

After the bubble burst, I was kicking myself for not procrastinating in setting up the IRA. I am a massive procrastinator, but I've had a couple of instances where I didn't procrastinate and got punished for it. So now I always play to my strengths.

[HomerSimpson98]

lol - kodos. That sums up my investing history quite well. I've since learned just to buy the damn couch. If I want to gamble, I'll bet chariot races in vegas.