2018-19 College Basketball thread

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Drake

Thanks for the info, Jon. I haven't been keeping up on the NET metric...just watching them play. (I guess I'm old school that way.)

I guess that explains it.

It's just another illustration of how no metric seems to suit everybody. I'm not enamored with NET in the slightest but it's supposedly to be the new coin of the realm (until proven otherwise).

Same with RPI (which I never particularly hated), it seems to get IU closer to right ... but has Minnesota at #50 ?!?!?!

[digamma]

Holy hell, Bryce Aiken!!!

[digamma]

On the last three weekends this kid has:

-Scored 44 vs Columbia, including a wild double clutch three pointer to send the game to double overtime.

-Hit a step back three with five seconds left to send the game vs Penn to overtime.

-Then tonight he his a buzzer beater from 15 feet to beat Yale 88-86.

Clutch.

[MrBug708]

Chris Beard is going to be a star. I hope UCLA goes all out for him, but we are more likely to hire Shaka Smart and allow Texas to hire him

[Kodos]

IU is terrible this year, and watching their games has been a real slog. Any team that loses 11 of 12 (or 12 of 13, I forget the exact stat) games does not deserve to get in the tournament.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Maybe Iowa just likes suspending people? Or maybe whomever makes those suspension decisions is simply too snowflake to be around athletics.

Iowa suspends McCaffery 2 games over tirade

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Maybe Iowa just likes suspending people? Or maybe whomever makes those suspension decisions is simply too snowflake to be around athletics.

Iowa suspends McCaffery 2 games over tirade

I go with the snowflake comment.

But the fact the U lost a discrimination lawsuit against them and the AD may have something to do with this. Our AD went after some women coaches and got nailed. Of course he is a fantastic fund raiser, so the AD didnt get any consequences.

[Kodos]

Report is that Bobby Knight has Alzheimer's. He was a class one jerk, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[tarcone]

I liked Bobby Knight. At least the 80s version.

And I saw him speak at a basketball clinic. He was great.

Sorry to hear.

[tarcone]

McCaffery called the refs cheaters. Like they cheated OSU to a 20 point win.

Quit your crying.

[BishopMVP]

Bad look for Ole Miss the other night. Idk if there were other bad calls leading up to it, but that was definitely either a charge (or a no call) on the last shot, it's not like he hit it anyways, and there's no call to throw stuff at opposing players regardless.

[digamma]

Yale, Harvard and Princeton all clinched spots in the Ivy tournament tonight. The last spot is a total mess, with Brown and Cornell now 5-6, Penn 4-7 and Columbia 3-8. Brown and Cornell play tomorrow night and the winner will have the edge going into the final weekend.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by digamma

Yale, Harvard and Princeton all clinched spots in the Ivy tournament tonight. The last spot is a total mess, with Brown and Cornell now 5-6, Penn 4-7 and Columbia 3-8. Brown and Cornell play tomorrow night and the winner will have the edge going into the final weekend.

Naturally Brown shit the bed because I bet them. Terrible showing at home.

[Brian Swartz]

That whole thing about Indiana's season just got a lot more interesting. Raise your hand if you had Purdue winning the Big Ten this year. Then slap yourself in the face with it, because it's not nice to lie like that.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Naturally Brown shit the bed because I bet them. Terrible showing at home.

That game was my favorite pick of last night (the same way you bet it). Cheers!

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

That whole thing about Indiana's season just got a lot more interesting. Raise your hand if you had Purdue winning the Big Ten this year. Then slap yourself in the face with it, because it's not nice to lie like that.

Yeah, if Indiana can win a couple more games to end the season (Illinois and Rutgers) and then win a couple in the Big Ten Tournament, they might sneak in. They've been playing better the last 5 games or so.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Naturally Brown shit the bed because I bet them. Terrible showing at home.

Of course tonight they show up.

Big upset in New Haven though. Columbia surprises Yale to stay alive in the race for #4, and if the season ended today, Harvard would now have the top seed over Yale.

Harvard and Yale are 9-3.
Princeton is 8-4
Brown is 6-6
Cornell and Penn are 5-7
Columbia is 4-8
Dartmouth is out at 2-10

Brown and Yale play the Ps next weekend.
Harvard and Dartmouth play the Cs.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Maybe Iowa just likes suspending people? Or maybe whomever makes those suspension decisions is simply too snowflake to be around athletics.

Iowa suspends McCaffery 2 games over tirade

Third option: The Big Ten "suggested" Iowa do something with him before the Big Ten is forced to come down on him seeing that they have already dealt with him once before for his behavior towards officials.

Iowa basketball: Fran McCaffery suspended two games, apologizes for berating official

McCaffery was suspended for one game in 2014 by the Big Ten after an ejection on the road against Wisconsin in which he received consecutive technical fouls and bumped an official. Iowa was fined $10,000 by the Big Ten Conference on that occasion as well.

The suspension and fine were worked out after consultation with the Big Ten and UI President Bruce Harreld on Wednesday, Barta said.

[Logan]

Good retribution for Rutgers last night. First road win over a ranked team since 2008.

[tarcone]

Im not sure why Iowa is ranked. Well, I know, but they can play like crap any night of the week.

Such and up and down team.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im not sure why Iowa is ranked. Well, I know, but they can play like crap any night of the week.

Such and up and down team.

They were ranked because they didn't have a loss to Rutgers two weeks ago on their resume.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Logan

They were ranked because they didn't have a loss to Rutgers two weeks ago on their resume.

Yeah, thanks to that lucky bounce. Or 2 bounces.

[Brian Swartz]

I have a spotty record, very hit-and-miss, on judging how college players will do in the NBA. I'm curious about Ja Morant - what do the lot of you think of him, where would you put him in the draft next year, etc?

[stevew]

passes the eye test with flying colors. Low end is a multiple all star. High end is mvp contender.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I have a spotty record, very hit-and-miss, on judging how college players will do in the NBA. I'm curious about Ja Morant - what do the lot of you think of him, where would you put him in the draft next year, etc?

High end is good Russell Westbrook without quite as much anger, low end is bad Russell Westbrook. His shot mechanics will probably need to be fixed and idk if he'll ever be a guy who can shoot 3's off the dribble at a high rate, but he doesn't have bad touch so I'm not too worried. Turnovers are high now, but part of that is the extremely high usage and minutes he plays. It's also a weaker draft - Zion is #1 with a bullet even if he tore his ACL, RJ Barrett and Jarrett Culver are the only other two I'd consider above him (I don't like Reddish much, I liked Little before the season but he hasn't shown it at UNC etc), so I think he's pretty locked into the 2-4 range. Phoenix & Chicago seem like perfect roster fits for him, and even with Cleveland/New York I rate him higher than DSJ and Sexton, though those teams might be loathe to admit that.

Grant Williams is the one I'm very interested in. I think he's a guaranteed 12+ year NBA player who will be good from year 1, like PJ Tucker or Chuck Hayes with better passing and a better post up game, who I would take in a heartbeat in the 10-14 late lottery range, but I see a lot of places that don't even have him going in the first round. Especially in today's more positionless and smaller NBA I don't think being a 6'6 guy who's better in the post is a detriment at all, plus in this environment you think more teams will recognize that a player who can be good on a rookie deal is more valuable than a guy who starts turning into one in year 3/4 right when you need to make that decision on whether to (over)pay him.

Matisse Thybulle is the other fascinating one (well, maybe Kevin Porter too, in that he really did shut it down to protect his draft stock, and will NBA teams hold it against him?). But Thybulle's defensive numbers are insane, like basically haven't been done since Ron Harper 30 years ago, and his 3-pt shot is projectable. Draft Notes: Understanding Matisse Thybulle - The Stepien

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Matisse Thybulle is the other fascinating one (well, maybe Kevin Porter too, in that he really did shut it down to protect his draft stock, and will NBA teams hold it against him?). But Thybulle's defensive numbers are insane, like basically haven't been done since Ron Harper 30 years ago, and his 3-pt shot is projectable. Draft Notes: Understanding Matisse Thybulle - The Stepien

I'm excited to see how Thybulle plays in the NBA. Obviously a lot of folks question how well his defense will play when he's not primarily in a zone, but if you watch him it becomes clear he's not a product of the system, he's just very athletic, very long and extremely smart about knowing passing lanes and goading opponents into making passes he can pick. He's also the best I can remember at blocking shots from behind, although he'll have to be careful about fouls.

His three-point stroke isn't pure, but it's good enough that you can project him to be able to continue improving with more work. He can be explosive to the rim - the Huskies will sometimes run a baseline clearout with their post that opens up room for Matisse to drive to the basket for a flush - but he's not that aggressive about finding his own shot. The times when he does drive the lane for a dunk you kind of scratch your head and wonder why he doesn't do it more often. His rebounding is OK, but with his jumping ability he could be better if he really worked on it. His passing is OK but nothing special.

I think he's got a good shot at a long career as a defensive terror that can make enough threes and be dangerous on the fast break to provide some offense.

[Lathum]

Reminds me of Pat Beverly. I’m excited to see him at the next level.

[Chief Rum]

You guys may be right, but when we're talking about guy being somewhere between "good" Westbrook and "bad" Westbrook (i.e. current, Top Ten maybe Top Five in the league Westbrook), we should maybe dial back our expectations some.

[stevew]

Sexton is trash. If Ja is there you run to the podium

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You guys may be right, but when we're talking about guy being somewhere between "good" Westbrook and "bad" Westbrook (i.e. current, Top Ten maybe Top Five in the league Westbrook), we should maybe dial back our expectations some.

This is a bit of a hot take, but I don't consider Westbrook a top ten guy. He isn't even the best player on his own team.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is a bit of a hot take, but I don't consider Westbrook a top ten guy. He isn't even the best player on his own team.

Yeah, the Westbrook who shoots 26% on 5+ 3's a game, and has also fallen off at the FT line so he's making 4.2 a game instead of 8+ like a couple years ago is a much less efficient player... He's so weird to rate (and it's also so weird that even with the emphasis on shooting 3's three of the best 10? 15? people at attacking the rim (Westbrook, Giannis, Ben Simmons) can't shoot but can still get to the rim) because I don't think you can underestimate how much having your best player play with that energy can mean, but he's not a top 10 player in the league right now imo. And yeah it fits pretty well with Ja's offensive game - he's that athletic he'll get to the rim even if defenders don't respect his shot. Defensively his effort isn't at Westbrook's level (though Westbrook's D has always been overrated by steal numbers), and he hasn't had to make or learn the skip passes for 3's an NBA PG should have, but it's NBA draft season - Morant has as much upside and potential as Westbrook showed coming out of UCLA. Just because I say beat case scenario doesn't mean I think he's likely to reach it, but I've also heard good things about his attitude and work ethic, and I always love late bloomers who have a chip on the shoulder.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is a bit of a hot take, but I don't consider Westbrook a top ten guy. He isn't even the best player on his own team.

Name ten better (and I'll give you Paul George, I agree).

And even if he's not top ten, anyone saying he is worse than say top 20-25 clearly has a bone to pick. Saying Morant (not even the concensus #1 upcoming) is at minimum a top 25 player is definitely overstating things at this point.

[Lathum]

PG-13
LeBron
Giannis
Embiid
Harden
Steph
KD
Davis
Kawhii
Kyrie

I agree he is top 25, but people get enamored with the triple double, ignoring the fact he can't shoot and sacrifices on the defensive end to try and compile stats.

[Lathum]

DOLA-

I have no bone to pick with him at all, I love watching him, especially when he is on. But he is vastly overrated by the average fan. I would rather have Luca over him at this point.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Name ten better (and I'll give you Paul George, I agree).

And even if he's not top ten, anyone saying he is worse than say top 20-25 clearly has a bone to pick. Saying Morant (not even the concensus #1 upcoming) is at minimum a top 25 player is definitely overstating things at this point.

LeBron, Giannis, KD, Steph, Harden, AD, PG, Joel Embiid, Kawhi. That's 9, and then it's Westbrook in a debatable category with guys like Simmons, Lillard, Towns, Kyrie, Blake Griffin, Jokic, maybe Klay and Bradley Beal and Doncic depending on team structure.

But no one is saying Ja will be a top 20 player next year. We're saying he has the potential to be in a few years, and then listing off the most prominent player with a similar style. He's too big to compare to Kemba/Lillard, doesn't have the top end speed Wall does (and Wall's stock is at an all time low right now), doesn't have the off the bounce jumper to compare to Steph/Harden/Lillard/current Kemba anyways, or the handle Harden/Kyrie have, though a lot of players on that list developed parts of their game in the NBA and it's not like Morant hasn't improved aspects in his 2 years post HS. (And btw unlike many higher profile recruits he didn't repeat so he's the same age as most draft eligible FR.)

[Chief Rum]

Actually Bishop you said his bottom potential range is low end (current Weetbrook), which we all seem to agree is at worst a top 15-20 player. The average fan perhaps overrates Qestbrook. I would say the average fan also overrates college players.

I don't know much about Morant other than I like watching him play and I have read up on projections of him and where he could end up being drafted. But we need to see a lot more I think before we put him at worst at the level of a past MVP.

As for the top ten, I did a scratch pad of the top players, too, and came up with:

PG
Harden
LeBron
Steph
KD
Brow
Giannis
Kawhi
Embiid

as my for sures. I would probably lean Jokic over Westbrook, too, which would put him out of the top ten. I considered all.of the others you did but I think it's very arguable they are better. For instance, Kyrie does the same stuff as Russ (gunning for shots, plays little D) but he's more injury prone, and is a worse passer and rebounder. Doncic is fantastic but I need to see him do it for more than four months and for a winning team before I elevate him to top ten. Towns is a guy who has all the ability to get there but he too doesn't seem to be driving the Wolves to victory with his talents and doesn't play much D. Those are three examples, but there is stuff like that for all of those guys, Beal, Simmons, Kemba, Dipo, Dame, etc.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Actually Bishop you said his bottom potential range is low end (current Weetbrook), which we all seem to agree is at worst a top 15-20 player. The average fan perhaps overrates Qestbrook. I would say the average fan also overrates college players.

I don't know much about Morant other than I like watching him play and I have read up on projections of him and where he could end up being drafted. But we need to see a lot more I think before we put him at worst at the level of a past MVP.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

High end is good Russell Westbrook without quite as much anger, low end is bad Russell Westbrook.

I can see where you'd read it the other way, but while I don't think current Westbrook is "elite" Westbrook, but I certainly don't think he's "bad" Russell Westbrook either. I'm referring to the nights where he goes like 7-19 with 6 turnovers and has multiple possessions late where he takes hero shots that don't go in. So sure it's probably better to say his upside is current Russ and his downside is what Dennis Smith Jr currently gives you. (Though again, Russ, and Kemba, and Harden, and Steph have all added elite parts of their game since they entered the league, so I don't have a problem saying Ja's ceiling is elite Westbrook instead of current Westbrook, even if he's unlikely to reach that peak.)

[tarcone]

Going to Arch Madness today. The MVC tourney semis in St Louis. Buddy has 2 tickets to a suite that is all-inclusive.

Looking forward to this. Free beer and food and basketball. What a day.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Going to Arch Madness today. The MVC tourney semis in St Louis. Buddy has 2 tickets to a suite that is all-inclusive.

Looking forward to this. Free beer and food and basketball. What a day.

Sounds awesome! If you have never done a suite it changes your life.

Have fun!

[Butter]

Anyone else notice that Fox Sports is now using the old NBA on NBC music as their intro / outro music for college basketball now? It took me like 2 weeks to remember where I heard it before.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Butter

Anyone else notice that Fox Sports is now using the old NBA on NBC music as their intro / outro music for college basketball now? It took me like 2 weeks to remember where I heard it before.

Yeah, it just sounds wrong in that context. It's not the NBA and it's not NBC. Didn't John Tesh write that music?

[Lathum]

Whew.

I can breath again. UW did everything they could to let USC hang around

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Whew.

I can breath again. UW did everything they could to let USC hang around

Terrible game from Noah, they missed crucial free throws and they still won. I'll take it.

I'm not going to miss them playing against Bennie Boatwright, that's for sure.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Chris Beard is going to be a star. I hope UCLA goes all out for him, but we are more likely to hire Shaka Smart and allow Texas to hire him

I hope that asshole Beard loses every damn game he coaches. Fuck him.

[digamma]

The ACC tournament isn't the intimate affair that it used to be, but it's still a pretty cool tournament. It's amazing to me that in almost 70 years there has only been one ACC final that didn't include a North Carolina school, and perhaps more amazing, in the last 43 years there have only been 3 finals that didn't have either North Carolina or Duke in it.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I hope that asshole Beard loses every damn game he coaches. Fuck him.

Ouch. Is there a backstory to this hate? I've been super impressed with what he's done at TTU

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

Ouch. Is there a backstory to this hate? I've been super impressed with what he's done at TTU

From Wiki

On March 27, 2016, Beard accepted the head coaching job at UNLV.[6] When the Texas Tech head coaching job was made vacant by Tubby Smith's departure to Memphis, Beard took the Texas Tech job on April 15, 2016.[7]

Beard's abrupt departure in turn led to the current Marvin Menzies era.
Lifetime record at UNLV: 33-34

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

Ouch. Is there a backstory to this hate? I've been super impressed with what he's done at TTU

The guy can coach. If Texas doesn't fire Smart and offer him whatever he wants they're idiots.

[PilotMan]

I'm gonna slip this in here, because probably everyone missed it and doesn't care, but the NDSU Bison and their 18-15 record won the Summit League and is heading to the Tournament for their 3rd trip. That's pretty exciting news!

[tarcone]

Congrats to NDSU.