Week 12 NFL Thread - Thanks for Giving us three games on Thursday..

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Catching up...LMAO at that 3rd TD by the Pats. Sanchez should have just gone down.

OMG...the 4th was even sillier.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

If Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl it should give hope to almost every QB currently playing in the NFL.

According to some Peyton Manning didnt have "something special" until 2006.

to be fair "something special" for Manning was Bob Sanders. if it wasnt for him Manning still wouldnt have a ring

[stevew]

I hope they play Tebow and wilfork makes him eat a fat dick.

[BillJasper]

Fun watching the Jets get spanked.

[SirFozzie]

Well, we're almost to our season average with 3:00 to play in the second. 35 Second Quarter points for the Pats. I think they had 42 on the Titans in the snow bowl.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Dutch

So what's the strategic takeaway from this episode? If the Lions don't throw the challenge flag, would it have been in Houston's best interest to throw the challenge flag there to ensure the replay doesn't take place and the TD stands?

There may be something to that.

I like it.

Your team scores a POS TD that you know won't stand up on replay. So you throw the challenge flag. Ohh Penalty...no review. Unfortunately I think the interpretation would be that YOU can't benefit from the review, but that the other team probably still would.

If it did work, it would earn you a heck of a fine. But it would probably result in a bad rule getting changed mid season rather than waiting until the off season.

[Crapshoot]

We're going to call this on the mercy rule soon, right?

[SirFozzie]

Wouldn't you love to watch the upcoming halftime talk from Rex Ryan? Probably have to do it from behind a couple inches of armor plate to avoid collateral damage from the explosion

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Wouldn't you love to watch the upcoming halftime talk from Rex Ryan? Probably have to do it from behind a couple inches of armor plate to avoid collateral damage from the explosion

Probably just going to go to his office and cry while sucking a prostitutes toes.

[B & B]

Jets looking good in preseason

[BillJasper]

Amazing how much more capable Sanchez looks down by 35 with the Patriots no longer applying the same amount of pressure...

[SirFozzie]

That was a car wreck of a hit. Clean, but a car wreck

[stevew]

He's gotta be concussed there

[stevew]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

That was a car wreck of a hit. Clean, but a car wreck

Shit QB throwing a shit route. He should bear some of the blame for hanging his guy out to die.

[BillJasper]

Terrible play calling by the Jets.

[stevew]

If they kick this FG, it's only a 4score game!

[stevew]

Just need 11 more of those

[stevew]

Novel idea...feature a talented artist doing songs that people have already heard and like. This is the opposite of the shitty Kid Rock performance.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by stevew

Novel idea...feature a talented artist doing songs that people have already heard and like. This is the opposite of the shitty Kid Rock performance.

"Like a Jet" maybe not the best choice given the way this game is going though...

[King of New York]

Rex at halftime: "We've got to stay true to ourselves."

Isn't that what got the Jets in this predicament in the first place?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by stevew

Novel idea...feature a talented artist doing songs that people have already heard and like. This is the opposite of the shitty Kid Rock performance.

I guess 'like' means different things to different people.

[Vince, Pt. II]

In what universe is Witten a hall of fame tight end? He's like 8th best in the league RIGHT NOW.

Edit: Ok, maybe 8th was a bit steep. But there are at least four guys I'd put ahead of him (Gonzalez, Gates, Gronk and Davis) who are in the league right now. I don't think he's a hall of famer.

[Desnudo]

Does Rex ever close his mouth

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

In what universe is Witten a hall of fame tight end? He's like 8th best in the league RIGHT NOW.

Edit: Ok, maybe 8th was a bit steep. But there are at least four guys I'd put ahead of him (Gonzalez, Gates, Gronk and Davis) who are in the league right now. I don't think he's a hall of famer.

He is the all time leading receiver in Cowboys history. That gets you into the HOF

[SirFozzie]

Nice Goal Line Stop for the Pats!

[stevew]

QB controversy aside, why isn't Tebow in as the redzone QB. He is great at that position.

[Vince, Pt. II]

I looked up Witten's stats - he's been quite good for a long time. That being said, he's never been the best at his position ever, and the best he's been is probably the third best TE in the league. This is the perfect quantity vs quality argument.

[stevew]

With only 5 players making it per year, it will take Witten a long long time to get in.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I looked up Witten's stats - he's been quite good for a long time. That being said, he's never been the best at his position ever, and the best he's been is probably the third best TE in the league. This is the perfect quantity vs quality argument.

Those kind of guys get in in baseball but not football.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by rowech

Those kind of guys get in in baseball but not football.

Weighted Career AV (100-95-...): 76 (473rd overall since 1950)

Jason Witten NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

I looked up Witten's stats - he's been quite good for a long time. That being said, he's never been the best at his position ever, and the best he's been is probably the third best TE in the league. This is the perfect quantity vs quality argument.

So Drew Brees isn't in the hall of fame either?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He is the all time leading receiver in Cowboys history. That gets you into the HOF

He's a slightly better Jay Novachek with 0 rings and playing in the passing era.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

So Drew Brees isn't in the hall of fame either?

Comparing TEs to Qbs is silly for HOF purposes.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by rowech

Those kind of guys get in in baseball but not football.

*cough*ARTMONK*cough*

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Guy won't win a Super Bowl.

Considering the percentage of QBs who do win a SB, that's not much of a statement.

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by rowech

Also, there's no way Witten gets into the hall of fame.

That surprises me. I don't know the history of football like baseball. I normally just watch the Cowboys game and then casually watch other teams. But Witten has been so damn consistent in Dallas. He might not be the most athletic tight end in the league but he is an excellent blocker and runs great routes. He has been the complete package. Has the tight end position historically been judged based on receiving numbers only? I really don't know. Somebody educate me.

[SirFozzie]

JFA.

Jets Fumble Again.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

That surprises me. I don't know the history of football like baseball. I normally just watch the Cowboys game and then casually watch other teams. But Witten has been so damn consistent in Dallas. He might not be the most athletic tight end in the league but he is an excellent blocker and runs great routes. He has been the complete package. Has the tight end position historically been judged based on receiving numbers only? I really don't know. Somebody educate me.

His career is probably only half over. A lot will depend on what else he does. His 778 catches catches when he is 30 years old has to atleast put him on the Hall of Fame radar. At the moment he couldnt retire and get in but if he should end up with over 1100 receptions and end up 3rd on the All-time reception list he will certainly get a lot of consideration.

[Julio Riddols]

Some food for thought: Kellen Winslow played for a Chargers offense that threw it over 600 times a season and he only had 3 seasons with more than 65 catches. This might be the first season Witten has played on a team that throws it 600 times, and he has caught fewer than 64 balls only once. I'd say they're at the very least comparable as players. Saying this is a passing era doesn't seem to fit when Air Coryell was the same thing to an even greater degree.

Witten probably won't get into the HOF because there are so many other players ahead of him in this era and so few spots to fill, but in my opinion he is good enough to be in.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by stevew

With only 5 players making it per year, it will take Whitten a long long time to get in.

This. Short of Witten having some amazing playoff games, and a breakout performance in a Super Bowl, he's too overshadowed by Tony Romo and Jerry Jones.

Vernon Davis, Tony Gonzales, and Antonio Gates are the only players from his generation with a shot at getting in.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

This. Short of Witten having some amazing playoff games, and a breakout performance in a Super Bowl, he's too overshadowed by Tony Romo and Jerry Jones.

Vernon Davis, Tony Gonzales, and Antonio Gates are the only players from this generation with a shot at getting in.

Gates and Witten have virtually identical stat lines and entered the year at the same time. Why would one get in and not the other?


EDIT: I apologize, I thought I read the stats that way. Witten has more yards, but Gates has waaaay more TDs - sorry bout that.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Gates and Witten have virtually identical stat lines and entered the year at the same time. Why would one get in and not the other?

Star power.

[SirFozzie]

Wilfork was eyeing that turducken like it was the Jet Offense

[stevew]

Witten needs a 11 catch, 160 yard, 2TD type of super bowl and until that happens, this discussion is futile There's only 5 spots per year. Figure 1QB per year at the minimum. Plus a defensive player or two. Plus guys that didn't get in before. And Whitten only has 42TD catches. He needs to get busy.

[Lathum]

Why is Davis even in the discussion? He was an underperforming malcontent early in his career and his stats pale compared to Wittens.

Witten is in his 10th season and Davis in his 7th. Witten has over 400 more catches and over 4,000 more yards while being targeted less than 3oo times more. Davis has a career high in catches of 78. This year will be the 6th year in a row Witten goes over that, has topped 90 3 times and will likely again this year.

Not really sure how you even compare the 2. Davis is more on par with Chris Cooley that Witten.

[Sun Tzu]

Additionally, re: Witten/Gates...

For a long time, Gates was considered the "go to" guy on the Chargers. Gates was the primary weapon, and when the Bolts were going to the Playoffs every year, you knew you had to stop LT and Gates.

Witten, meanwhile, has never been the #1 guy on his own team. He's always played second fiddle to Owens, Glenn, and Austin. Hell...in his own career, Witten has been the leading receiver on his own team just once. Gates has led the Chargers in receiving five times.

[stevew]

Gates has almost 2X the amount of TDs

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by stevew

Whitten needs a 11 catch, 160 yard, 2TD type of super bowl and until that happens, this discussion is futile There's only 5 spots per year. Figure 1QB per year at the minimum. Plus a defensive player or two. Plus guys that didn't get in before. And Whitten only has 42TD catches. He needs to get busy.

Needs a better QB running the offense.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Why is Davis even in the discussion? He was an underperforming malcontent early in his career and his stats pale compared to Wittens.

Witten is in his 10th season and Davis in his 7th. Witten has over 400 more catches and over 4,000 more yards while being targeted less than 3oo times more. Davis has a career high in catches of 78. This year will be the 6th year in a row Witten goes over that, has topped 90 3 times and will likely again this year.

Not really sure how you even compare the 2. Davis is more on par with Chris Cooley that Witten.

I disagree. Football has never been solely about stats. Davis has been on some of the worst offensive teams in NFL history, but that's not what has defined him. What has defined him is his "rebirth" during the Singletary era, and his off-the-charts performances in the playoffs last season. If the 49ers continue down this road, with Davis being the primary weapon in a rapidly growing passing offense, I wouldn't be surprised to see Davis widely regarded as an all-time TE.

Speculative, sure...but he's already accomplished more HoF-wise than Witten. Again, this isn't about stats, but star power. Witten is just too...meek.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Star power.

Pretty much. If you told me that Gates and Witten had virtually identical stat lines, I'd say you were full of crap. I'm amazed to see how similar they are. I'd imagine very few casual football fans outside of Dallas even know who Witten is.