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Old 06-03-2020, 11:56 PM   #3851
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:20 AM   #3852
Brian Swartz
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Most just out of voyeuristic curiosity, I wonder what Amash does after the election going forward. Clearly he's not coasting to the end of his time in Congress.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:30 AM   #3853
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Fire all of these guys
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:31 AM   #3854
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I was going to try a pithy joke like "Ok, once may not be an issue, but reviewed 79 times? Maybe policing is not the job for you"

But then the rage hit me how this cop still has a job despite having an internal review for using force SEVENTY NINE TIMES over three and a half years (or on average, once every two weeks).

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1268351179916001280
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:56 AM   #3855
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Originally Posted by sterlingice View Post

No private army (or at least not as pervasive as some would claim) per CNN. Good thing there is additional context, fact-checking to the twitter feeds.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...-dc/index.html
Quote:
The city's status as a district, not a state, allows the President, and in turn the federal government, more leeway. Combined, at least 5,800 troops, agents, and officers have taken to the streets of the District.

Among them are personnel from the national guard, US Secret Service, US Park Police, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Drug Enforcement Administration, US Marshals Service, Bureau of Prisons, Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Federal Protective Service and the Transportation Security Administration.

Last edited by Edward64 : 06-04-2020 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:00 AM   #3856
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Originally Posted by SirFozzie View Post
I was going to try a pithy joke like "Ok, once may not be an issue, but reviewed 79 times? Maybe policing is not the job for you"

But then the rage hit me how this cop still has a job despite having an internal review for using force SEVENTY NINE TIMES over three and a half years (or on average, once every two weeks).

https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/1268351179916001280

I believe there are many repeat offenders and they are the majority of the problem. I assume police go through psych profiles or evaluation and wonder how they "pass".

Not sure where the cut-off is but yeah, 79 times is definitely where his continued employment should be signed-off at the highest level (just in-case there truly were extenuating circumstances).
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Old 06-04-2020, 08:28 AM   #3857
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The below is additional footage to the officer reviewed 79 times.

It shows a female officer confronting him. I'm not sure what she said but it does look in reaction to the male cop pushing the protester.

Hopefully more cops/partners feel compelled to openly check other cops. I can see where this will cause disruption in the police forces across the country and cause major internal "drama". But small price to pay if it reduces these issues (and gets rid of the bad ones).

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Old 06-04-2020, 09:24 AM   #3858
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I believe there are many repeat offenders and they are the majority of the problem. I assume police go through psych profiles or evaluation and wonder how they "pass".

.

It is honestly not that hard to "bluff" your way past a psych evaluation unfortunately.
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:41 AM   #3859
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Indianapolis. Good apples must have had the day off.

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Old 06-04-2020, 12:40 PM   #3860
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Indianapolis. Good apples must have had the day off.


Jesus. WTF.
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:47 PM   #3861
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Indianapolis. Good apples must have had the day off.


This will be Trumps favorite. A little sexual assault followed by some physical assault, followed by a little bondage.
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:55 PM   #3862
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That was awful. Treating two unarmed women that way is just brutal.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:01 PM   #3863
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That's going to cost Indianapolis taxpayers a good chunk of change.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:02 PM   #3864
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Now that all four have been arrested in charged, I'm wondering what people think of the Floyd case itself. Upgrading the top count on Chauvin to 2nd-degree murder is understandable but risky IMO. I can see him acquitted on that, convicted on the manslaughter, Lane at least being acquitted of aiding & abetting though I'm not sure on the other two ... and I think very bad things happens if that occurs.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:08 PM   #3865
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"Cops Groped Her"?

Nice sensationalist caption. Grope as in a free boob squeeze, nah. Grope as in trying reposition his hands as she was struggling and broke free, yeah I can see that.

I would like to understand what preceded before the film started (e.g. who knows, did she try to assault a cop or another person). So I'll wait until we get more reporting or context on this before making a premature judgement.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:17 PM   #3866
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
"Cops Groped Her"?

Nice sensationalist caption. Grope as in a free boob squeeze, nah. Grope as in trying reposition his hands as she was struggling and broke free, yeah I can see that.

I would like to understand what preceded before the film started (e.g. who knows, did she try to assault a cop or another person). So I'll wait until we get more reporting or context on this before making a premature judgement.

I see it as the cop grabbing her boob then she struggles. Perspective, I guess.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:21 PM   #3867
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Originally Posted by Brian Swartz View Post
Now that all four have been arrested in charged, I'm wondering what people think of the Floyd case itself. Upgrading the top count on Chauvin to 2nd-degree murder is understandable but risky IMO. I can see him acquitted on that, convicted on the manslaughter, Lane at least being acquitted of aiding & abetting though I'm not sure on the other two ... and I think very bad things happens if that occurs.

The 1st guy was charged with 2nd degree murder, 3rd gegree murder, and 2nd degree manslaughter. I think they are covering their bases. The fact that they said they should turn him to his side and the guy on his neck said no, might get them the 2nd degree murder.

I think it would send a very powerful message to the police if they get the other 3 on aiding and abetting. Don't stand by while one of your own kills someone.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:29 PM   #3868
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I see it as the cop grabbing her boob then she struggles. Perspective, I guess.

Hmmm.

I took a couple more looks (is there a slo-mo for twitter?) and, honestly, it looks like she started to struggle to break away before he re-positioned his hands.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:33 PM   #3869
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What happens if it is determined that the drugs in Floyd's system are what killed him? I am not an expert on the matter, but those are some pretty nasty drugs and a bad combination.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:35 PM   #3870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
"Cops Groped Her"?

Nice sensationalist caption. Grope as in a free boob squeeze, nah. Grope as in trying reposition his hands as she was struggling and broke free, yeah I can see that.

I would like to understand what preceded before the film started (e.g. who knows, did she try to assault a cop or another person). So I'll wait until we get more reporting or context on this before making a premature judgement.

Why? You trying to justify the savage beating by multiple cops of a restrained and unarmed woman ?

Why is it you’re always in the wrong side of these things ?
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:36 PM   #3871
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Why? You trying to justify the savage beating by multiple cops of a restrained and unarmed woman ?

Why is it you’re always in the wrong side of these things ?

He’s a troll bot
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:41 PM   #3872
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Originally Posted by Edward64 View Post
"Cops Groped Her"?

Nice sensationalist caption. Grope as in a free boob squeeze, nah. Grope as in trying reposition his hands as she was struggling and broke free, yeah I can see that.

I would like to understand what preceded before the film started (e.g. who knows, did she try to assault a cop or another person). So I'll wait until we get more reporting or context on this before making a premature judgement.
Even if she slapped the cop in the face and called his mom a ho, it doesn't justify the nightstick beating they put on her (as an unarmed woman). I'm also guessing she didn't do either of those things - but simply didn't "listen" and needed to be taught a lesson.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:42 PM   #3873
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Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
Indianapolis. Good apples must have had the day off.


This clip and the one above where they shoot into the car just baffle me. There were 10 cops around. Two of them couldn't just grab her and put her in handcuffs? And then they push the other girl down hard for no reason.

And the one where they shoot into the car at the pregnant woman, why not just go over and talk to the guy and apologize? Police are supposed to protect the public.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:43 PM   #3874
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Why? You trying to justify the savage beating by multiple cops of a restrained and unarmed woman ?

Why is it you’re always in the wrong side of these things ?

If the sensationalist headline is wrong and exaggerated, then I would question the rest of it.

On one extreme, if she and her friend were just walking and not doing anything wrong then this is clearly excessive force and all those cops should be fired/reprimanded.

On the other extreme, if her supposedly groped friend had tried to assault a cop or another civilian, and she did try to break away, then I don't see an issue with what happened.

So, lets understand what preceded this and get the context before calling these cops "bad apples".
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:45 PM   #3875
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He’s a troll bot

Oh, you again?
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:45 PM   #3876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arles
Even if she slapped the cop in the face and called his mom a ho, it doesn't justify the nightstick beating they put on her (as an unarmed woman).

This. Events prior to that might possibly play a small mitigating factor, but that kind of violence against an unarmed citizen simply can't be ok. Ever.

Last edited by Brian Swartz : 06-04-2020 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:47 PM   #3877
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Even if she slapped the cop in the face and called his mom a ho, it doesn't justify the nightstick beating they put on her (as an unarmed woman).

I agree with you. That would not justify what I saw.

Are there levels of assault of a cop where you would think it was justified?

(I'm not saying she did it, I'm tossing out a hypothetical to understand if there is anything she/friend could have done that, in your opinion, would have justified what we saw on the feed).

Last edited by Edward64 : 06-04-2020 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:48 PM   #3878
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First, it's pretty clear the woman that gets shoved down is because she was saying stop - not exactly a violent attack on police. Second, even if the other woman was resisting, do you think 7 nightstick hits by two cops is a little excessive for an unarmed woman who weights maybe 130 soaking wet?
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:50 PM   #3879
Brian Swartz
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My answer is no. Unarmed and in handcuffs. I don't care if she just shot three police officers five minutes prior, it's still criminal behavior. I think the appropriate punishment for the cops depends on what provocation (if any) there was. Some is needed though no matter what.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:53 PM   #3880
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Force as punishment should never be accepted from police officers. That's not their role in the justice system.
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Old 06-04-2020, 01:56 PM   #3881
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My answer is no. Unarmed and in handcuffs. I don't care if she just shot three police officers five minutes prior, it's still criminal behavior. I think the appropriate punishment for the cops depends on what provocation (if any) there was. Some is needed though no matter what.

She was unarmed but she was not in handcuff.

We are in the realm of whatabouts and having experienced the other side of it I don't want to be the instigator this time around. I'd just say there reasons where I'd find the actions the cops took as reasonable to restrain a person.

Again, I would like to know what preceded this event before saying the cops are "bad apples".
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:01 PM   #3882
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First, it's pretty clear the woman that gets shoved down is because she was saying stop - not exactly a violent attack on police. Second, even if the other woman was resisting, do you think 7 nightstick hits by two cops is a little excessive for an unarmed woman who weights maybe 130 soaking wet?

You are right re: her friend. I saw a cop nudge her away from getting closer (that's okay) and then another cop pushing her hard and she fell. That does seem excessive to me but does NOT mean he's a bad cop.

Re: the "groped woman", I'd ask you again:

Are there levels of assault of a cop where you would think it was justified?
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:05 PM   #3883
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BTW re: groping.

Honest request, can you guys take a look at the film again and confirm (1) groping took place before she struggled to break free or (2) inadvertent groping happened as she struggled to break free.

I'm not trying to rationalize the rest of it, but just wanted to know if my eyes are deceiving me.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:06 PM   #3884
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Even if it was inadvertent, isn't the right response to apologize and move on from there?
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:06 PM   #3885
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This is funny. Poor NG troops don't know how to respond.

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Old 06-04-2020, 02:12 PM   #3886
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Even if it was inadvertent, isn't the right response to apologize and move on from there?

Uh no? If it was inadvertent, that means she was struggling to get free (resisting arrest maybe?) before he accidentally groped her.

Why would he apologize when she was trying to break free?

I ask you as I've asked Brian and Arles -

Is there any level of assault to a cop (or civilian) that would justify the cops' response when she broke free from his restraint?
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:15 PM   #3887
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This is funny. Poor NG troops don't know how to respond.

I finished watching a Viking series on Netflix a couple weeks ago (The Last Kingdom I think?). Looks like they need a lesson on the "shield wall" technique.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:18 PM   #3888
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Uh no? If it was inadvertent, that means she was struggling to get free (resisting arrest maybe?) before he accidentally groped her.

Why would he apologize when she was trying to break free?

I ask you as I've asked Brian and Arles -

Is there any level of assault to a cop (or civilian) that would justify the cops' response when she broke free from his restraint?

Absolutely not. Force as punishment should never be accepted.

He should apologize because he's human and he violated her whether or not it was intentional. He should also apologize because it would be much more likely to de-escalate what could have become a dangerous situation.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:23 PM   #3889
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Are there levels of assault of a cop where you would think it was justified?


No.

Once the threat is contained there is zero reason for excessive force. They were pissed she disrespected them and decided to give her a whooping to teach her a lesson.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:25 PM   #3890
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I'm not saying it was right to break the terms of the Munich Agreement, but we don't know what Czechoslovakia did to provoke the situation. We know they weren't happy with the cessation of the Sudetenland. Who knows what they might have done to provoke the invasion?

Let's discuss this. Is there any action by Czechoslovakia that would've made it okay for Germany to violate the Munich Agreement?
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:29 PM   #3891
Brian Swartz
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Originally Posted by Edward64
She was unarmed but she was not in handcuff.

We are in the realm of whatabouts and having experienced the other side of it I don't want to be the instigator this time around. I'd just say there reasons where I'd find the actions the cops took as reasonable to restrain a person.

You are correct. She wasn't in handcuffs. She was however literally just standing there. When someone is just standing there, not trying to run away, not trying to do any aggressive action whatsoever, you hit them with the batons and they still just stand there ...

No. There's no reason to keep hitting them. Doesn't matter what happened before. It's blatantly obvious they don't need force to restrain somewhere who, again, is literally just standing there.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:30 PM   #3892
Edward64
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Absolutely not. Force as punishment should never be accepted.

He should apologize because he's human and he violated her whether or not it was intentional. He should also apologize because it would be much more likely to de-escalate what could have become a dangerous situation.

I appreciate you (and others) having a civil conversation with me (vs you know the other time).

So I'll end this by saying I can easily see these cops overreacting and at fault. I can also see situations where cops are justified in this response and ... its dependent on the context of what happened before the film started, why they restrained or arrested her.


I googled on "Indianapolis police brutality" and sorted by date. I don't see anything reported yet (by non-Twitter). I've got this noted and will do periodic searches and if you have an update, I would appreciate it.

Last edited by Edward64 : 06-04-2020 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:36 PM   #3893
Edward64
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Originally Posted by larrymcg421 View Post
I'm not saying it was right to break the terms of the Munich Agreement, but we don't know what Czechoslovakia did to provoke the situation. We know they weren't happy with the cessation of the Sudetenland. Who knows what they might have done to provoke the invasion?

Let's discuss this. Is there any action by Czechoslovakia that would've made it okay for Germany to violate the Munich Agreement?

I'm not being facetious when I say this is an interesting thought exercise. I like history but I don't really want to read all that other stuff right now.

Can you come up with something more contemporary and let's have a conversation? Let's say from 1990's onwards?
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:53 PM   #3894
RainMaker
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One easy rule not mentioned the other day is immediate termination for any cop who covers their badge name/number or body camera. I would also add that proudly displaying your association with an extremist group that marched in Charlottesville might be someone you don't want on your force.

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Old 06-04-2020, 02:59 PM   #3895
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Also on the same topic of cops being part of groups like that, I think IA departments should focus more on that stuff. Was a good report a year ago about how many police were party of white supremacist and other bigoted groups online.

Inside hate groups on Facebook, police officers trade racist memes, conspiracy theories and Islamophobia | Reveal
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:39 PM   #3896
tarcone
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BTW re: groping.

Honest request, can you guys take a look at the film again and confirm (1) groping took place before she struggled to break free or (2) inadvertent groping happened as she struggled to break free.

I'm not trying to rationalize the rest of it, but just wanted to know if my eyes are deceiving me.

My perspective. I was able to stop at one second. That is when the hand is moving up towards her breast or on it. It looks like she is reacting.,

Again, that is how I see it. So I go with #1.
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:42 PM   #3897
tarcone
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Also on the same topic of cops being part of groups like that, I think IA departments should focus more on that stuff. Was a good report a year ago about how many police were party of white supremacist and other bigoted groups online.

Inside hate groups on Facebook, police officers trade racist memes, conspiracy theories and Islamophobia | Reveal

My 1st job in my present career was in a very small town in rural Missouri. If you wanted to join the KKK you went to the police station, if you wanted to join the militia, you went tot he local army surplus store. The militia was extreme.

This was in the late 90s.
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:45 PM   #3898
ISiddiqui
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This is one of the reasons I have such issues against police groups:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...e-biden-300222

Quote:
But Biden’s call for more national policing reforms and oversight in the wake of the death of George Floyd — and the perception that he hasn’t shown enough solidarity with law enforcement amid the ensuing nationwide protests and unrest — have created a fissure with law enforcement groups, leaving many who once supported him frustrated by what they regard as political posturing by their one-time ally.

Simply a call for more police reforms and oversight makes Biden suspect. Like these groups think everything is all a-ok.

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Old 06-04-2020, 03:46 PM   #3899
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Onions must taste good, some people just can't help but eat every one offered.
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Old 06-04-2020, 03:54 PM   #3900
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
Some Iowa football players were taken into custody today for leaving a suspected drug house. They have lived there the entire school year. The police had them at gun point and broke a car door handle, then brought in the K-9 unit. After the situation the cops said "“if I knew you guys were Hawkeyes, we wouldn’t have done this”.

Go Iowa City cops.
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