WW XCI: Office Space, the TPS Edition - GAME OVER - Insiders Win - Page 11

claphamsa · 04-07-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Why wouldn't he? He's the only one of us with a villager role that we can be certain of.

such poor deflection :P

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

things that were said in the pm compared to things in the role description.... it may just be EF getting creative...

you better hope you are lumberg, or i might get another scan.....

Either that, or you could just be making things up.

claphamsa · 04-07-2009, 09:36 AM

Entirely possible... but im not. so neah!

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 09:38 AM

Anyway, thanks for clearing it up -- sounds like there's nothing really to go on for you other than the PM you claim to receive. That's going to make it hard for us to analyze the situation, but I hope we'll be able to come up with something we can use to get started -- I'll have a look at some of the posts I was only able to skim last night.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

Entirely possible... but im not. so neah!

I'm pretty positive that 'neah' is not a word, so you are most definitely making up words. And, if you're making up words, who's to say you're not making up PMs?

PurdueBrad · 04-07-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm pretty positive that 'neah' is not a word, so you are most definitely making up words. And, if you're making up words, who's to say you're not making up PMs?

He does have you there. That really makes me think that I should switch my vote.

claphamsa · 04-07-2009, 09:41 AM

no one..... I love how you dont dispute that you are a wolf... but you dispute my assumption that you are the brutal

we need some ketchup porn up in here!

claphamsa · 04-07-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

He does have you there. That really makes me think that I should switch my vote.

I was thinking of positing a neener neener too!

Lathum · 04-07-2009, 09:43 AM

Vote Pass.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 09:45 AM

Also, about the 'bullying' thing -- I didn't mean it as any kind of insult or meta-game remark. Other people can argue the definition of the word if they like, but I'm still happy calling it bullying. I wasn't trying to say it was anything that shouldn't be done in the game -- I'm fine with a cutthroat style (that is, unless it involves unfairly voting unanimously to lynch an innocent villager based on one guy's word), so I wasn't trying to call Lathum out for something 'bad' -- I was only trying to figure out to what extent that affected lerruiqs's vote change, which kind of got lost in the shuffle. So, I still say it was bullying, and while I wouldn't have done that to a newbie, I didn't have any particular problem with it.

USFLTecmo · 04-07-2009, 09:45 AM

Vote Passacaglia

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

no one..... I love how you dont dispute that you are a wolf... but you dispute my assumption that you are the brutal

we need some ketchup porn up in here!

Well it's pretty fricking obvious that I'm not a wolf, why would I need to dispute that?

Lathum · 04-07-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Lathum voted and then unvoted Pass first and then put a vote on Claphamsa and finally put a vote on Hoops. Yeah, I voted Hoops as well but if Pass is bad, the unvote looks bad, the vote on Claph (and no, he wasn't the only one) doesn't look good, and the ultimate vote on Hoops is bad as well.

If I am a wolf and vote Pass, why unvote him when I realize he isn't going to be lynched? The whole point of a wolf voting another wolf early day one is to bury his vote on a wolf so later on they can use that as defense. If I am a wolf and unvote him it completly defeats the purpose. It makes no sense.

Had Pass been on the chopping block and I unvote him thats a whole different story.

Barkeep49 · 04-07-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

If I am a wolf and vote Pass, why unvote him when I realize he isn't going to be lynched? The whole point of a wolf voting another wolf early day one is to bury his vote on a wolf so later on they can use that as defense. If I am a wolf and unvote him it completly defeats the purpose. It makes no sense.

Had Pass been on the chopping block and I unvote him thats a whole different story.

I've been struggling with this idea myself. The voting struck me as unusual at the time, and now with the info that Pass is a wolf, it seems very worthy of scrutiny.

Lathum · 04-07-2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Also, about the 'bullying' thing -- I didn't mean it as any kind of insult or meta-game remark. Other people can argue the definition of the word if they like, but I'm still happy calling it bullying. I wasn't trying to say it was anything that shouldn't be done in the game -- I'm fine with a cutthroat style (that is, unless it involves unfairly voting unanimously to lynch an innocent villager based on one guy's word), so I wasn't trying to call Lathum out for something 'bad' -- I was only trying to figure out to what extent that affected lerruiqs's vote change, which kind of got lost in the shuffle. So, I still say it was bullying, and while I wouldn't have done that to a newbie, I didn't have any particular problem with it.

I've talked to no fewer then 5 people either playing of following along over AIM and none of them thought it was bullying...

Lathum · 04-07-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I've been struggling with this idea myself. The voting struck me as unusual at the time, and now with the info that Pass is a wolf, it seems very worthy of scrutiny.

again, why do I switch from Pass if I am a wolf?

He was in no danger.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I've talked to no fewer then 5 people either playing of following along over AIM and none of them thought it was bullying...

Since you never answered when I asked you how you define bullying, I can't really say whether it fits your definition, and the same goes for no fewer than 5 people. I don't know what you want from me -- I was trying to say in my last post that I wasn't trying to call you out, and was just talking the effect your play -- whatever you want to call it -- had on lerruiqs. Of course, your whining about it, coupled with a lame reason by lerruiqs -- that he voted for Autumn because he had showed up twice without voting, despite the fact that I was sitting there having done the exact same thing -- really obfuscated the issue.

lerriuqs · 04-07-2009, 09:59 AM

VOTE Pass

dubb93 · 04-07-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I've talked to no fewer then 5 people either playing of following along over AIM and none of them thought it was bullying...

Really? You were talking to people in the game, outside the game about your play yesterday? Isn't that against the spirit and/or the rules of the game?

lerriuqs · 04-07-2009, 09:59 AM

Whoops...

VOTE PASS

Lathum · 04-07-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

Really? You were talking to people in the game, outside the game about your play yesterday? Isn't that against the spirit and/or the rules of the game?

I would hardly say " Do you think that was bullying" would be considered against the spirit of the game

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

Really? You were talking to people in the game, outside the game about your play yesterday? Isn't that against the spirit and/or the rules of the game?

Not if you're a wolf. But that's a good point.

VOTE LATHUM

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:04 AM

Nice job catching a wolf in a slip-up. Hopefully now we can look past this false accusation by clap, and deal with him later.

Lathum · 04-07-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Not if you're a wolf. But that's a good point.

VOTE LATHUM

Gimme a fucking break.

Do you avoid every single person pn AIM when you are in a game?

We have had couples play in the same game and no one ever questioned them about out of game discussions.

It's insulting and a really cheap way to try and paint someone in a negative light.

I never discussed gameplay or strategy or anything. I mearly asked if I was being a bully because you made me feel bad about the way I played.

It's total bullshit this is even coming up. I've played for 5 years, many times with my best friend and a few times in the same game as my wife. I have never once crossed a line in regards to intergrity of the game and the fact that that is being questioned is total BS.

Lathum · 04-07-2009, 10:10 AM

dola- that's really a cheap, classless way to try and accuse someone of being a wolf. It's like accusing someone of lying about their real life issues/ schedule.

Barkeep49 · 04-07-2009, 10:15 AM

I will just say that I was 1 of the 5 Lathum talked with and viewed it as part of my larger responsibilities here. I did not know he talked with others, but now knowing this, I do not feel asking the question, as Lathum did, was inappropriate communication.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Gimme a fucking break.

Do you avoid every single person pn AIM when you are in a game?

We have had couples play in the same game and no one ever questioned them about out of game discussions.

It's insulting and a really cheap way to try and paint someone in a negative light.

I never discussed gameplay or strategy or anything. I mearly asked if I was being a bully because you made me feel bad about the way I played.

It's total bullshit this is even coming up. I've played for 5 years, many times with my best friend and a few times in the same game as my wife. I have never once crossed a line in regards to intergrity of the game and the fact that that is being questioned is total BS.

Lighten up, man. I already said twice that I didn't think what you did was wrong. There's a big difference between saying someone was bullying in the thread and someone being asked over IM "hey, do you think I was bullying that guy?" The way I see it, in game terms, you were definitely bullying. In RL terms, of course you weren't -- you were just playing a game.

Anyway, who all did you talk to?

Abe Sargent · 04-07-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I would hardly say " Do you think that was bullying" would be considered against the spirit of the game

I do if you are turning it around and using it against people in the thread. You are using conversations about the game in another context to disprove or go against someone in the thread characterizing your behavior in a certain way? Without the person who made teat characterization to know who said it or rebut it? I'd say that goes REALLY against the spirit. I don;t even think it's CLOSE to the line.

claphamsa · 04-07-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I will just say that I was 1 of the 5 Lathum talked with and viewed it as part of my larger responsibilities here. I did not know he talked with others, but now knowing this, I do not feel asking the question, as Lathum did, was inappropriate communication.

he asked me too.... and i agree. it was aggressive lathum... but nothing more. the discussion makes even more sense knowing pass is a wolf. clearly trying to set lathum up!

Abe Sargent · 04-07-2009, 10:18 AM

I mean I don't question your ethics, but I think it's totally outside the bounds to use conversationt htat happened away from the game as points in teh game.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

he asked me too.... and i agree. it was aggressive lathum... but nothing more. the discussion makes even more sense knowing pass is a wolf. clearly trying to set lathum up!

How many times do I have to say it? I didn't even think what he did was wrong, and I was just trying to figure out why lerruiqs changed his vote. What's the difference between aggressive and bullying, anyway?

dubb93 · 04-07-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I do if you are turning it around and using it against people in the thread. You are using conversations about the game in another context to disprove or go against someone in the thread characterizing your behavior in a certain way? Without the person who made teat characterization to know who said it or rebut it? I'd say that goes REALLY against the spirit. I don;t even think it's CLOSE to the line.

I agree. I think any issue that was/is causing people to vote/suspect you in the game should have ALL of the conversation about that issue in the game thread. Did Lathum bully yesterday? I think so. Was the bullying against the rules of the game? No, not in any way at all. In fact it was a great play by Lathum as it either directly or indirectly resulted in a vote change. Again, the play itself was a good, clean, solid one. Very solid play on that Lathum.

This is a game of werewolf, bullying/lieing,backstabbing will happen at times. Afterall this is a game about killing other players for crying out loud.

The out of game talk about that I think is against the spirit as the issue was brought up in thread it should have stayed in thread. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

Abe Sargent · 04-07-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

I agree. I think any issue that was/is causing people to vote/suspect you in the game should have ALL of the conversation about that issue in the game thread. Did Lathum bully yesterday? I think so. Was the bullying against the rules of the game? No, not in any way at all. In fact it was a great play by Lathum as it either directly or indirectly resulted in a vote change. Again, the play itself was a good, clean, solid one. Very solid play on that Lathum.

This is a game of werewolf, bullying/lieing,backstabbing will happen at times. Afterall this is a game about killing other players for crying out loud.

The out of game talk about that I think is against the spirit as the issue was brought up in thread it should have stayed in thread. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

Yup, totally agree.

Abe Sargent · 04-07-2009, 10:28 AM

And I don't even think it is out of line to pm BK and say - As a mod, do you think I was out of line? That's fine. But then don't go saying, "Well BK said it was fine." in the thread. Who can refute that or speak to it?

Barkeep49 · 04-07-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I mean I don't question your ethics, but I think it's totally outside the bounds to use conversationt htat happened away from the game as points in teh game.

I'm going to agree with this. It seems like such a conversation could have been done in thread, and thus something Lathum could use to defend himself. Having been done outside of the thread, it does seem unfair to then introduce it into the gameplay.

As the conversation focuses here, so far even those who feel Lathum was bullying, feel that it was with-in the bounds of the game. If this is the agreement, I would like to see us use a different word than bullying to describe what Lathum did. Bullying, in my view, is not with-in the bounds of the game. It's something that is done when the line is crossed between good clean play and play which which should not be tolerated.

Barkeep49 · 04-07-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

And I don't even think it is out of line to pm BK and say - As a mod, do you think I was out of line? That's fine. But then don't go saying, "Well BK said it was fine." in the thread. Who can refute that or speak to it?

Refocusing on gameplay, Lathum you ask why changing the vote away from Pass if you're a wolf. That's the hang-up in my mind right now. The best answer I can come up with is that so much attention was being paid to consoldiating the vote, and since you were an active presence in the thread, you didn't feel like keeping your vote as an outlier was sustainable.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm going to agree with this. It seems like such a conversation could have been done in thread, and thus something Lathum could use to defend himself. Having been done outside of the thread, it does seem unfair to then introduce it into the gameplay.

As the conversation focuses here, so far even those who feel Lathum was bullying, feel that it was with-in the bounds of the game. If this is the agreement, I would like to see us use a different word than bullying to describe what Lathum did. Bullying, in my view, is not with-in the bounds of the game. It's something that is done when the line is crossed between good clean play and play which which should not be tolerated.

What word would you have us use?

claphamsa · 04-07-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

What word would you have us use?

Lathuming?

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Refocusing on gameplay, Lathum you ask why changing the vote away from Pass if you're a wolf. That's the hang-up in my mind right now. The best answer I can come up with is that so much attention was being paid to consoldiating the vote, and since you were an active presence in the thread, you didn't feel like keeping your vote as an outlier was sustainable.

He probably backed off me because he knew I was on to whatever was going on between him and lerruiqs. The fact that clap was involved in that whole thing just makes it look shadier from my POV. I hate theories that involve having spotted 2 or 3 wolves, but I'm finding this one very difficult to let go of.

claphamsa · 04-07-2009, 10:40 AM

Should I reiterate my neener neener here?

Barkeep49 · 04-07-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

He probably backed off me because he knew I was on to whatever was going on between him and lerruiqs. The fact that clap was involved in that whole thing just makes it look shadier from my POV. I hate theories that involve having spotted 2 or 3 wolves, but I'm finding this one very difficult to let go of.

Right now we've spotted one wolf via the seer, which just so happens to be you. Thus your "insights" are worthless. The question becomes lathum's connection to you and that meaning.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Right now we've spotted one wolf via the seer, which just so happens to be you. Thus your "insights" are worthless. The question becomes lathum's connection to you and that meaning.

Wait a minute. Let me clear something up here. I am definitely not the seer.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:50 AM

I'd like to see where I've dropped hints that I am. I'm not trying to pull one over on anybody here -- and I don't want the real seer to come out to disprove my claim -- it's way too early in the game for that. I'll repeat, I am not the seer!

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 10:51 AM

In fact, BK, your accusation that I am the seer, in trying to get the real seer to come out, seems pretty wolfish from where I'm sitting. Especially considering how you tried to deflect the conversation away from Lathum.

USFLTecmo · 04-07-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Wait a minute. Let me clear something up here. I am definitely not the seer.

That's not how I interpreted his message. BK's saying that the seer's pointed you out. I'm sure you knew that, but you're doing what you can to sow whatever confusion you possibly can.

Chief Rum · 04-07-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I was tempted not to post this, but you really think you're going to die tonight?

Why wouldn't the wolves target an outed duke who still has his powers, especially with the assumption that the seer will be protected? Is there a better target?

Outside of a wrench being thrown into things, such as the wolves surmising BG protected clap last night, and so is free to guard me tonight, but I find that unlikely. At the time of last night's deadline, clap wasn't the seer, but Joanna, so it would have made more sense for the BG to protect the duke. But what do I know? I'm not the BG.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USFLTecmo

That's not how I interpreted his message. BK's saying that the seer's pointed you out. I'm sure you knew that, but you're doing what you can to sow whatever confusion you possibly can.

If you want confusion, look no further than my accuser. Lathuming? How confusing would it have been if I had asked lerruiqs if he changed his vote because Lathum was Lathuming him?

Chief Rum · 04-07-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claphamsa

things that were said in the pm compared to things in the role description.... it may just be EF getting creative...

you better hope you are lumberg, or i might get another scan.....

clap, if you haven't already, could you confirm your scan with Eaglefan? It doesn't sound like you're 100% certain about your PM re: Pass, and if we're going to take out a wolf, I would like to know for sure that's what we're doing.

Chief Rum · 04-07-2009, 11:13 AM

BTW, if Pass is indeed Lumberg, you're going almost certainly die at the deadline, too, as Lumberg is the brutal.

I could save you, but the only way to do it would be to save Pass.

Passacaglia · 04-07-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

BTW, if Pass is indeed Lumberg, you're going almost certainly die at the deadline, too, as Lumberg is the brutal.

I could save you, but the only way to do it would be to save Pass.

Seems reasonable. Take care of Lathum now, so that we have another day to focus on the whole "clap/pass scenario"

04-07-2009, 09:36 AM	#503
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	Entirely possible... but im not. so neah! __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

04-07-2009, 09:41 AM	#507
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	no one..... I love how you dont dispute that you are a wolf... but you dispute my assumption that you are the brutal we need some ketchup porn up in here! __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

04-07-2009, 10:18 AM	#530
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	I mean I don't question your ethics, but I think it's totally outside the bounds to use conversationt htat happened away from the game as points in teh game. __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-07-2009, 10:28 AM	#534
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	And I don't even think it is out of line to pm BK and say - As a mod, do you think I was out of line? That's fine. But then don't go saying, "Well BK said it was fine." in the thread. Who can refute that or speak to it? __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

04-07-2009, 10:40 AM	#540
claphamsa Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: non white trash MD	Should I reiterate my neener neener here? __________________ Dominating Warewolf for 0 games! GIT R DUN!!!

04-07-2009, 09:38 AM	#504
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Anyway, thanks for clearing it up -- sounds like there's nothing really to go on for you other than the PM you claim to receive. That's going to make it hard for us to analyze the situation, but I hope we'll be able to come up with something we can use to get started -- I'll have a look at some of the posts I was only able to skim last night.

04-07-2009, 09:43 AM	#509
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Vote Pass.

04-07-2009, 09:45 AM	#510
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Also, about the 'bullying' thing -- I didn't mean it as any kind of insult or meta-game remark. Other people can argue the definition of the word if they like, but I'm still happy calling it bullying. I wasn't trying to say it was anything that shouldn't be done in the game -- I'm fine with a cutthroat style (that is, unless it involves unfairly voting unanimously to lynch an innocent villager based on one guy's word), so I wasn't trying to call Lathum out for something 'bad' -- I was only trying to figure out to what extent that affected lerruiqs's vote change, which kind of got lost in the shuffle. So, I still say it was bullying, and while I wouldn't have done that to a newbie, I didn't have any particular problem with it.

04-07-2009, 09:45 AM	#511
USFLTecmo H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin	Vote Passacaglia

04-07-2009, 09:59 AM	#518
lerriuqs High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saskatchewan	VOTE Pass

04-07-2009, 09:59 AM	#520
lerriuqs High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saskatchewan	Whoops... VOTE PASS

04-07-2009, 10:04 AM	#523
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Nice job catching a wolf in a slip-up. Hopefully now we can look past this false accusation by clap, and deal with him later.

04-07-2009, 10:10 AM	#525
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	dola- that's really a cheap, classless way to try and accuse someone of being a wolf. It's like accusing someone of lying about their real life issues/ schedule.

04-07-2009, 10:15 AM	#526
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I will just say that I was 1 of the 5 Lathum talked with and viewed it as part of my larger responsibilities here. I did not know he talked with others, but now knowing this, I do not feel asking the question, as Lathum did, was inappropriate communication.

04-07-2009, 10:50 AM	#543
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	I'd like to see where I've dropped hints that I am. I'm not trying to pull one over on anybody here -- and I don't want the real seer to come out to disprove my claim -- it's way too early in the game for that. I'll repeat, I am not the seer!

04-07-2009, 10:51 AM	#544
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	In fact, BK, your accusation that I am the seer, in trying to get the real seer to come out, seems pretty wolfish from where I'm sitting. Especially considering how you tried to deflect the conversation away from Lathum.

04-07-2009, 11:13 AM	#549
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	BTW, if Pass is indeed Lumberg, you're going almost certainly die at the deadline, too, as Lumberg is the brutal. I could save you, but the only way to do it would be to save Pass. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

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