Werewolf XVIII: To Crown a King (GAME OVER)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pass, re-post from #215:

I had a feeling you'd do that.

Are you saying that you think I'm a faction leader? Because I'm not. And I'm not aligned with AE. As we get closer to the deadline, I'm more and more confident there are only three in my faction -- the leader, me, and one other. AE is none of them.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, I don't think you are a faction leader. That is why I put in there that I didn't think AE was following a faction leader.

As far as your faction total, I would ask you to go through the thread again and look really hard for people who may be in your faction. I think you will find more than three. I am not claiming to know every member of your faction - that would not be at all believable. But if I'm right there are more than three in your group. I don't want to reveal what I think the key is for your group as it may lead people to associate us together. We may or may not be in the same faction.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I do not think you are aligned with AE based on what I have read so far.

[Barkeep49]

Voting is closed EXCEPT I will allow Desnudo a vote if he gets it in soon (next 30 minutes or so) as he was holding off voting until I replied to his PM which I just did.

[Desnudo]

I really haven't had a chance to throughly read through the thread, so I'll vote Blade to Jail until it's clearer why he's behaving that way.

[Barkeep49]

Voting is now closed. Also now would be a good time to pressure your friends and neighbors to join this game of Werewolf. Penny has not been on the board in several days and with every person needed, I would like to try and fill him tonight. I have a message in to SnDvls but if you are somoene who might be interested in playing then now is a great time to join!

[Barkeep49]

The first day of deliberations comes to an end. Clearly alliances have started to be made. Certain people have started to earn trust. At the end of the day Blade is not one of the people who has earned trust. With a heavy heart the votes are counted and it is clear that he is not to be trusted. While the decision was a close one, it is eventually decided that he will be killed. He goes to his death stoically. Following his death a thorough search of his quarters is made. Nothing can be found to indicate that he has had anything but positive motivations for the country. He is A NOBLE!. However, just as the search comes to an end one of the nobles notices something a bit off with a painting in the room. Can it be? It is. Peepholes have been cut through the cloth. The assassins were spying on Blade and if he had ever become a faction leader, they would have had ammunition to blackmail him.

Standings are as follows:
Faction A -2.5
Faction B 1.5
Faction C -1.5

The Night cycle has begun. Please send in actions. The total points needed will be revealed shortly.

EDIT: Deadline is 9 AM Eastern Tuesday.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

The first day of deliberations comes to an end. Clearly alliances have started to be made. Certain people have started to earn trust. At the end of the day Blade is not one of the people who has earned trust. With a heavy heart the votes are counted and it is clear that he is not to be trusted. While the decision was a close one, it is eventually decided that he will be killed. He goes to his death stoically. Following his death a thorough search of his quarters is made. Nothing can be found to indicate that he has had anything but positive motivations for the country. He is A NOBLE!. However, just as the search comes to an end one of the nobles notices something a bit off with a painting in the room. Can it be? It is. Peepholes have been cut through the cloth. The assassins were spying on Blade and if he had ever become a faction leader, they would have had ammunition to blackmail him.

Standings are as follows:
Faction A -2.5
Faction B 1.5
Faction C -1.5

The Night cycle has begun. Please send in actions. The total points needed will be revealed shortly.

Well, it looks like we indeed have 3 factions

[kingfc22]

To make it easier to try and figure out who is who here is how scores are tabulated:

If a person who is executed is an assassin:
+3 points for the first vote cast
+5 points for the lynching votes (in other words if the final votes is 8-3, the 4th vote cast is considered the lynching vote)
+1 point for all other votes

If a person who is executed is a Noble:
-2 points for the first vote cast (-2.5 if the person was a member of your faction)
-3.5 points for the lynching vote (-4 if the person was a member of your faction)
-.5 points to each player of that faction who voted to execute

Other:
+.5 points for any person voting to Jail the opposing Noble leader
+.5 points for any person voting to execute an assassin who does not receive the most votes
+.5 points for any person voting to free a member of his faction from jail
+1.5 point for the first person to vote to send an assassin to jail
+1.5 point for the “lynching” vote to send an assassin to jail.
-.5 points for the first person to vote to send a noble to jail
-.5 points for the “lynching” vote to send a noble to jail

[Coffee Warlord]

Well, the good news the blackmailing is out of the way.

[hoopsguy]

OK, knowing that we have three factions is very good news. Getting the noble who was blackmailed is also a pretty good outcome, if we had to get a noble instead of an assassin.

One of the leaders came up with a very clever hint for his followers. I would encourage him to make a similar play again tomorrow to help nail down the membership as I counted six people who belonged to that faction (including the leader). That number does not compute with 18 players so someone inadvertantly signaled they were in that group or else I just can't count.

I also heartily endorse Coffee's recommendation on the inclusion of "PROTECTED" as one of the words in the hint - leave it out if you are not going to be covering yourself so you don't waste a word on "UNPROTECTED".

[Barkeep49]

The grizzled old Spymaster joins you at the end of your solemn dinner.

"So it seems as though you did not do so well on night 1. Yet some of you have indeed shown wisdom. For now the country demands yet more wisdom from all of you. While the country remains patient a faction will need 12.5 points to crown a king. However, their standards will no doubt lower in a few days if no king has been found."

[hoopsguy]

The fact that Blade was executed indicates either:
1.) No faction leaders voted for McSweeny
2.) A faction leader voted for each
3.) I counted the votes improperly (Barkeep did not post votes)

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I also heartily endorse Coffee's recommendation on the inclusion of "PROTECTED" as one of the words in the hint - leave it out if you are not going to be covering yourself so you don't waste a word on "UNPROTECTED".

Finally, he may designate either even or odd days and on those days he will have a retinue watching over him during night, preventing the assassins from killing him.

In other words...in the PM tonight, say "Evens" or "Odds". Since it doesn't change, it need only be one word, one time.

[dubb93]

Standings are as follows:
Faction A -2.5
Faction B 1.5
Faction C -1.5

I'm going to throw this out and see what everyone thinks. I think Mr. W is an assassin based on these. He recieved 2 votes, that would give faction B +1.0 if both Blade and Vince were members. The other .5 came from a vote to jail a faction leader.

I'm fairly confident McSweeney is a noble.

[Barkeep49]

My vote total was (with names in no particular order):

Blade 6 (3e, 3j): McSweeny, Ardent enthusiast, Mr. Wednesday, TazFTW, Passacalagia, Desnudo

McSweeny 5 (4e, 1j): Saldana, George W Bush, Coffee Warlord, Dubb93, RPI-Fan

Mr. Wednesday 2 (2e): Vince, Blade6119

Dubb 2 (2j): Vince, King

Ardent 1 (1e): Hoopsguy

George W. Bush 1 (1j): st.cronin

[kingfc22]

Barkeep - you missed my vote to jail dubb

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Barkeep - you missed my vote to jail dubb

Actually I didn't miss it so much as put in Blade's name (in addition to where he actually voted). Votes were right and I have it recorded correctly in the spreadsheet. It just doesn't transcribe easily so I had to do it by hand and hence the mistake.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I'm going to throw this out and see what everyone thinks. I think Mr. W is an assassin based on these. He recieved 2 votes, that would give faction B +1.0 if both Blade and Vince were members. The other .5 came from a vote to jail a faction leader.

Running the numbers, I have to agree here.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

By the way, suggestion for the faction leaders. It might be nice to include whether you are protected during evens or odds phase in tonight's PM. Can't hurt to know.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I also heartily endorse Coffee's recommendation on the inclusion of "PROTECTED" as one of the words in the hint - leave it out if you are not going to be covering yourself so you don't waste a word on "UNPROTECTED".

I would hope that my leader chose odd nights for the simple fact that the assassins can not kill on night zero and the game is more likely to include more odd nights than even ones. Just my .02. I'll find out tonight if I think the same way as my leader.

[kingfc22]

Anybody want to edit barkeep's post of votes to include who voted to execute or jail.

[hoopsguy]

The question for me is who picked up the -3.5 points for the deciding vote? Was it a noble or an assassin? If it was a noble then his faction did a nice job of picking him up, since the lowest total is -2.5.

Desnudo was last vote, but only the "lynching" vote if there were no faction leaders on either player or evenly balanced faction leaders on both.

Barkeep, does the "first vote" only come into play if there are an even number of votes?

Ex: Lets say that McSweeny was a faction leader. He voted for Blade in Post #200. That would make the score 7-5 for Blade. Would the person who cast Vote #6 or Vote #5 be considered the "lynch" vote in this case since the person who cast Vote #5 actually was Vote #6 since McSweeny would count as two in this case?

[hoopsguy]

My version of Barkeep's post, but including the votes in order:

Post #96 Blade votes EXECUTE MRW
Post #102 Cronin votes EXECUTE AE
Post #136 Vince votes EXECUTE BLADE
Post #140 Coffee votes EXECUTE BLADE
Post #142 Pass votes EXECUTE BLADE
Post #154 Vince unvotes, votes EXECUTE MRW
Post #155 Dubb votes JAIL MCSWEENY
Post #170 Hoopsguy votes EXECUTE DUBB
Post #176 GWB votes EXECUTE MCSWEENY
Post #181 Coffee unvotes, votes EXECUTE MCSWEENY
Post #196 Ardent votes EXECUTE BLADE
Post #197 Saldana votes EXECUTE MCSWEENY
Post #198 MrW votes JAIL DUBB
Post #200 McSweeny votes EXECUTE BLADE
Post #201 Schmidty votes JAIL DUBB
Post #202 RPI votes EXECUTE MCSWEENY
Post #209 Taz votes JAIL BLADE
Post #217 Hoopsguy unvotes, votes EXECUTE AE
Post #218 MrW unvotes Dubb, votes JAIL BLADE
Post #222 King votes JAIL DUBB
Post #232 Croninn unvotes, Votes JAIL GWB
Post #255 Desnudo votes JAIL BLADE

MRW - Blade (E), Vince (E)
AE - Hoopsguy (E)
Blade - Pass (E), Ardent (E), McSweeny (E), Taz (J), MrW (J), Desnudo (J)
McSweeny - Dubb (J), GWB (E), Coffee (E), Saldana (E), RPI (E)
Dubb - Schmidty (J), King (J)
GWB - Cronin (J)

[Coffee Warlord]

Warning: Hypothetical Mathmatic Overload. System failure.

[hoopsguy]

I would hope that my leader chose odd nights for the simple fact that the assassins can not kill on night zero and the game is more likely to include more odd nights than even ones. Just my .02. I'll find out tonight if I think the same way as my leader.

I would hope the three leaders are not in lockstep on this as it would provide a nearly free license to kill for the assassins on the even numbered nights, with 3 (+1 potentially) protects on one night and 0 (+1 potentially) on the odd numbered nights.

[Barkeep49]

Faction leaders vote doubles ONLY when decided whether to jail or execute. The time tiebreaker is used if two players recieve the same number of votes. Tie breakers are considered only in the case of a tie. So in this case Desnudo was the lynching vote despite the fact that Blade would have won between him and McSweeny based on earliest vote.

[st.cronin]

I was told there would be no math.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by PM

If we lose a noble leader, does the person who steps up as the new leader lose their special ability, if any?

Yes, except lucky/fast talking noble remains.

[dubb93]

The question for me is who picked up the -3.5 points for the deciding vote? Was it a noble or an assassin? If it was a noble then his faction did a nice job of picking him up, since the lowest total is -2.5.

It was either Mr. W or Desnuedo. I have our -2.5 worked out straight so I have a feeling that 1(Mr. W without a doubt) or both could be assassins.

[dubb93]

so which faction you claiming Desnudo?

[dubb93]

Desnudo, you are lurking but not responding.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Also up there are Schmidty and King.

I'm always "up there", so this is just par for the course.

[hoopsguy]

OK, so Desnudo is the deciding vote - his allies must have really helped him out in order for the faction to work off -3.5 points. Or else he is an assassin (points would not come into play) going a very weird route, hitting the guy who they had blackmailed.

That makes no sense to me. Nor does posting that he may need to drop from the game based on a bad PM. So Desnudo is a noble in my book.

So, his group must have done a nice job for him. The rest of his team was a net +1.0 if they picked up the -2.5 score. Or a net 2.0 in order to move up to the -1.5 score.

With this in mind, I'm going to go out on a limb and make a prediction:

Faction:
Desnudo - 3.5 deciding vote on noble
RPI +0.5 for vote to execute assassin not getting most votes
Dubb +1.5 for first jail assassin vote
Coffee +0.5 for vote to execute assassin not getting most votes
Schmidty -0.5 for first vote to send noble (Dubb) to jail

Note that I'm not certain this is the faction (pretty sure about three people, one of which is not Desnudo), but if Desnudo is willing to indicate that his PM fell in line with the one that Dubb posted then it starts to make a very compelling case that we just missed today on McSweeny as an assassin.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

My vote total was (with names in no particular order):

Blade 6 (3e, 3j): McSweeny, Ardent enthusiast, Mr. Wednesday, TazFTW, Passacalagia, Desnudo

McSweeny 5 (4e, 1j): Saldana, George W Bush, Coffee Warlord, Dubb93, RPI-Fan

Mr. Wednesday 2 (2e): Vince, Blade6119

Dubb 2 (2j): Vince, King

Ardent 1 (1e): Hoopsguy

George W. Bush 1 (1j): st.cronin

I voted for Dubb - Jail

[dubb93]

Faction:
Desnudo - 3.5 deciding vote on noble
RPI +0.5 for vote to execute assassin not getting most votes
Dubb +1.5 for first jail assassin vote
Coffee +0.5 for vote to execute assassin not getting most votes
Schmidty -0.5 for first vote to send noble (Dubb) to jail

I assure you that isn't the faction. You got some of us right, but you missed out on some while you were at it

[hoopsguy]

Dola - prediction assumes Faction C for the faction.

Also, on Desnudo "bad PM, potential drop from game" move - it makes no sense as a wolf play. It makes sense as an up-and-up villager (noble) who is trying to maintain game integrity.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Desnudo, you are lurking but not responding.

I'm playing FM right now. As for all of the above, like I said, I've been in meetings all day and I didn't have time to read through the entire thread. There also was a legitimate mistake in a PM I received that called into question whether I could continue (knowing what I know). TBH, I had no idea that my vote was going to sentence Blade to death or else I wouldn't have voted to put him in jail.

I read his immediate kill message and scanned the thread after that. I didn't think he was a bad guy, but definitely an oddball that needed to be watched, in jail.

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, the absolute correct membership isn't the most important part here. It is linking Desnudo to your group which voted as a block against McSweeny. Schmidty as the last member of the faction is a throw-in/guess. Just someone who would have scored a -0.5.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Faction:
Desnudo - 3.5 deciding vote on noble
RPI +0.5 for vote to execute assassin not getting most votes
Dubb +1.5 for first jail assassin vote
Coffee +0.5 for vote to execute assassin not getting most votes
Schmidty -0.5 for first vote to send noble (Dubb) to jail

I assure you that isn't the faction. You got some of us right, but you missed out on some while you were at it

The numbers you have there add to -1.5 I believe. And like I said, that isn't the faction.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Dubb, the absolute correct membership isn't the most important part here. It is linking Desnudo to your group which voted as a block against McSweeny. Schmidty as the last member of the faction is a throw-in/guess. Just someone who would have scored a -0.5.

The problem is that other guy wouldn't have a negative score if McSweeney was an assassin.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I'm playing FM right now. As for all of the above, like I said, I've been in meetings all day and I didn't have time to read through the entire thread. There also was a legitimate mistake in a PM I received that called into question whether I could continue (knowing what I know). TBH, I had no idea that my vote was going to sentence Blade to death or else I wouldn't have voted to put him in jail.

I read his immediate kill message and scanned the thread after that. I didn't think he was a bad guy, but definitely an oddball that needed to be watched, in jail.

I don't question that, but your vote would give -3.5 to some faction. The numbers don't work out unless you are an assassin.

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, I take it that you know each of your members at this point?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Dubb, I take it that you know each of your members at this point?

Seems that way.

[hoopsguy]

Dubb, your faction could have the 1.5 score if they were:
Dubb: +1.5 (first vote to jail an assassin)
GWB: +.5 (vote execute assassin)
RPI: +.5 (vote execute assassin)
Coffee: +.5 (vote execute assassin)
Pass: -2 (first vote for Blade)

If that is the case, then we are still struggling to figure out who Desnudo is with. And I'm struggling to figure out why Passacaglia broke from your faction's ranks. Finally, I'm really struggling to figure out how your faction would have followed you on the vote if you are not a faction leader and were bluffing with your "leader said 'king me'" story earlier today.

I think it is worth revealing if this is your group because it basically hangs an assassin (McSweeny) and increases our ability to fit Desnudo with one of the other factions and fit the remaining votes into a pattern.

[hoopsguy]

Ugh - bad math (1.0 not 1.5), nm. Would delete the post but that is considered bad WW etiquette.

[Barkeep49]

Please ask your friends and neighbors about joining this game as Penny still is a no show. With that I go to sleep.

[hoopsguy]

If a person who is executed is a Noble:
-2 points for the first vote cast (-2.5 if the person was a member of your faction)
-3.5 points for the lynching vote (-4 if the person was a member of your faction)
-.5 points to each player of that faction who voted to execute

Barkeep, rules clarification question: -.5 points to each player of that faction who voted to execute.

Does this pertain as an extra minus for voting to execute a member of your faction, or just casting a vote to execute when the outcome is a dead noble (voting to execute another noble who is still alive)?

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by dubb93

I don't question that, but your vote would give -3.5 to some faction. The numbers don't work out unless you are an assassin.

I didn't look at the numbers, I just voted how I thought I should vote given that I had barely skimmed the thread, and probably absorbed nothing. Personally, I was against killing anyone on the first day. I should have read the vote posts.

[hoopsguy]

Desnudo, it would really help us figure things out on the voting if you could give some indication of what your PM from your leader was yesterday. Because we need to figure out which faction ate -3.5 points so we can properly assess the remaining votes. Overall it looks like we may have some information we can use to hunt assassins tomorrow (assuming you are not one, which I am at this point).

[Blade6119]

wow, just got back...have to say im very dissapointed...good job killing and innocent everyone...