Unofficial Official 2012-13 College Basketball Thread

[spleen1015]

Awesome news for IU.

[Izulde]

Karam Mashour is transferring from UNLV in search of more PT. Disappointing to hear, because I think the kid has potential to develop into something pretty good and he'd have more chance of minutes opening up with the guys we've got graduating.

Oh well, let's see what Rice does with this second scholarship that's opened up now.

[MrBug708]

Probably going to see who transfers from UCLA

[Izulde]

But those who have more connection to the program are saying he wouldn't have gotten much increase in PT next year anyway, and would have stayed rooted to the end of the bench. So it sounds like a win all around.

Hope he does well wherever he goes.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Probably going to see who transfers from UCLA

A transfer is one possibility that's been discussed, possibly even one that opens up mid-season like Khem Birch did this year.

Anthony Bennett (Findlay Prep) is still our #1 target after Shabazz dropped us from the list of finalists (and I'm still surprised we lasted that long), so who knows what Rice is going to do.

[MrBug708]

Because people in Las Vegas were a little crazy with his recruiting

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Both the men's and women's programs at Baylor are facing possible sanctions for recruiting violations. There has been a lot of smoke around Scott Drew since he got to Baylor.

Baylor Bears teams facing possible NCAA sanctions - ESPN

File this under the least surprising headlines of the year. Drew is easily the filthiest coach in the Big 12 when it comes to recruiting. I'm surprised it was only a few hundred instances.

[MrBug708]

Shabazz to UCLA? Everyone is starting to come out and say it

Huge for Howland

[DeToxRox]

Buzz is picking up that Nerlens Noel is going to Georgetown.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Buzz is picking up that Nerlens Noel is going to Georgetown.

Would love to see that from a Mizzou perspective. Increases our chances with Pollard quite a bit.

[cartman]

After making the Longhorns sweat a bit by not signing during the Fall Signing Period, Cameron Ridley signed his LOI this morning. He will be the best C on the Forty Acres since LaMarcus Aldridge.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Shabazz to UCLA? Everyone is starting to come out and say it

Huge for Howland

Las Vegas Sun posted it via rivals.com Shabazz to UCLA.

[Izulde]

Anthony Bennett probably won't decide until early May, but Khem Birch is reportedly selling him hard on UNLV (they're former AAU teammates).

What can the Tennessee guys tell me about Renaldo Woolridge? I know he only has one year of eligibility left, but he's able to play right away. He's rumored to be a possible target for UNLV's second scholarship and we certainly need size and talent in the post.

[cartman]

Looks like Baylor is going to end up just getting a slap on the wrist.

NCAA puts Baylor Bears on probation, accepts self-imposed penalties for text messages - ESPN

[DeToxRox]

Noels to Kentucky and Kentucky's Rivals site says they may get a commitment from Bennett soon as well.

[Scoobz0202]

Fuck Calipari

[TargetPractice6]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

I hate to be too greedy, but let's get Shabazz and Nerlens Noel aboard the UK train and go for #9 next year.

Well, one out of two isn't bad.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Noels to Kentucky and Kentucky's Rivals site says they may get a commitment from Bennett soon as well.

Doubt it on Bennett.

[Matthean]

Link

Derrick Nix is back with MSU.

[mauchow]

Jarrod Uthoff to transfer from Wisconsin.

Full court press on Sheldon Jeter from PA now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Oriakhi sets his list of schools to visit........

Oriakhi Will Visit UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Missouri - UConn Basketball - Connecticut News

Originally Posted by digamma

I can see why he'd take a look at those four. I mean, they have 48 Final Four appearances combined.

And we got our answer. Oriakhi selects Mizzou.

PowerMizzou.com - Eye on the Tigers

Makes for a formidable frontcourt with Bowers. Now if Mizzou can just finish it off with Pollard next week........

Edit: Pic of Oriakhi next to Bowers and Flip for comparison....

[MylesKnight]

Curious, what exactly would Show Cause Penalties entail? That is, say someone wants to give Bruce Pearl a shot... What exactly would the NCAA do in this situation? I don't know of a Test Case in this kind of situation, but say Southern Miss wanted to take a look at him for instance. Thoughts?

[britrock88]

Offhand, I think the NCAA would ask Southern Miss why it wanted to hire Pearl in particular, given his past violations. Then, the school would try to show why it shouldn't be penalized for the remainder of Pearl's show-cause period. So I suppose the NCAA holds itself out as being able to prohibit a school from making a hire in the most extreme circumstance, and as being able to assess sanctions to a school for hiring a past violator in other situations.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like Kansas State is interested in being the first Big 12 team to go to the dark side. Bruce Weber and Frank Haith are working on a multi-year deal for a non-con series between MU and KSU.

Would be pretty funny after all of the posturing by the KU AD to see KSU be the school to get a payday playing a neutral site series in KC against Mizzou.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Looks like Kansas State is interested in being the first Big 12 team to go to the dark side. Bruce Weber and Frank Haith are working on a multi-year deal for a non-con series between MU and KSU.

Would be pretty funny after all of the posturing by the KU AD to see KSU be the school to get a payday playing a neutral site series in KC against Mizzou.

In Missouri's best season ever, Kansas had a slightly above average team, for Kansas, and they still won the Big12 and made the title game, while Missouri was bounced in the 1st round as a 2 seed. I think Kansas will be just fine without the Missouri game. Try not to worry about them too much.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Marmel

In Missouri's best season ever, Kansas had a slightly above average team, for Kansas, and they still won the Big12 and made the title game, while Missouri was bounced in the 1st round as a 2 seed. I think Kansas will be just fine without the Missouri game. Try not to worry about them too much.

Last year was not Mizzou's best season ever. It could have been, but was not. Maybe for win total, but that has more to do with the number of games when compared to past seasons. Plenty of conference championships that would qualify as 'best season ever' over this one. Mizzou's consecutive Premo national championships in 1921 and 1922 along with a #2 national ranking in 1920 would easily trump this season as well.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Last year was not Mizzou's best season ever. It could have been, but was not. Maybe for win total, but that has more to do with the number of games when compared to past seasons. Plenty of conference championships that would qualify as 'best season ever' over this one. Mizzou's consecutive Premo national championships in 1921 and 1922 along with a #2 national ranking in 1920 would easily trump this season as well.

Premo Poll National Champions - Hoopedia

Except Penn won the Premo national title in 1921 and Kansas won it in 1922.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Premo Poll National Champions - Hoopedia

Except Penn won the Premo national title in 1921 and Kansas won it in 1922.

[digamma]

Premo National Champs!

I can't wait to unveil my digamma National Champs retroactive to 1636 this spring. Here's a hint: Harvard crushed it for years!

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Looks like Kansas State is interested in being the first Big 12 team to go to the dark side. Bruce Weber and Frank Haith are working on a multi-year deal for a non-con series between MU and KSU.

Would be pretty funny after all of the posturing by the KU AD to see KSU be the school to get a payday playing a neutral site series in KC against Mizzou.

Honestly, why did you even have to mention Kansas since this report has zero to do with the Jayhawks? You mention this "payday" stuff, but let's be honest every game Kansas plays in KC is a "payday" whether it's Missouri or St. Mary's. Let's compare the two teams' games at the Sprint Center this past season. Kansas hosts Davidson and has 18,700 in attendance on a Monday night. Missouri hosts Cal on a Tuesday night for the CBE Classic and has 10,700. Are you really suggesting that Kansas needs Missouri's "neutral site KC payout"?

It's great that KSU gets a "payout" from Missouri, but that has nothing to do with Kansas. It bites that both teams are no longer in the same conference and the Border War rivalry was thus ended, but now it's time to move on. You have 12 new programs (and A&M) of which to try and create a new rivalry. You should focus on your new conference and the new rivalries that will come with it. Good luck.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Premo Poll National Champions - Hoopedia

Except Penn won the Premo national title in 1921 and Kansas won it in 1922.

Ummmm, no. As that site says,

Information about the Premo Poll is difficult to come by. Please help us build an accurate and complete list.

By difficult, they must mean that they have incorrectly labeled the Helms Championship list as the Premo Championship list. You can see both lists in this article, where Penn and Kansas are correctly listed as the Helms Champions and Mizzou is correctly listed as the Premo champion in both years. The rebuttal section of the article details where the Helms Foundation had the flaws in their logic in selecting a national champion.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/helms.html

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Last year was not Mizzou's best season ever. It could have been, but was not.

If not for those 15 seeds...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

If not for those 15 seeds...

Agreed. Anything but that.

[cartman]

And further, from the page you use for support, the Premio entries are titles, not Championships.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/helms.html

Postscript

Championships vs. Titles - Why the Distinction Matters

One noteworthy point in the whole debate around Helms involves the terminology used. In most general conversations among fans, the terms national 'championships' and national 'titles' are used interchangeably. But when it comes to actually counting official 'National Championships', it is important to realize the distinction between the two.

When one thinks about the specific essence of the two terms and consults standard definitions, it is clear that the two are distinct, albeit connected entities. A 'championship' is something that is won, most generally on the field of play against direct competition. A 'title' is something that is given or awarded by someone else, in honor of an achievement or as a designation of being considered the best at something.

Given the above, it's not unexpected that in the case of the NCAA Tournament, where a team wins a championship game and they are crowned champions and the team is given the TITLE of "NCAA National Champions", that the use of title and championship becomes blurred. This is because they often come hand in hand with each other.

So while it is generally true that winning a championship also involves a title being associated with it, the converse does not always hold. In many cases, a title can be given without a formal championship or competition being held at all. In other words, being awarded a title does not necessarily confer that a championship was even present, much less attained.

In the case of collegiate basketball, there are actually many titles which can be claimed, some which are associated with winning a tournament (NCAA Tournament, NIT tournament, Conference tournament etc.) and some which are not (Associated Press #1, Highest Attendance, top Sagarin Rating). The latter, do not constitute a championship. It is into this group that the Helms title falls.

[cartman]

And futhermore from that link, I've never heard of Texas claiming that 1933 Premo-Poretta title.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

And futhermore from that link, I've never heard of Texas claiming that 1933 Premo-Poretta title.

Exactly. And neither has Missouri. In contrast, KU hangs banners for their retroactive titles.

But without question, those MU seasons were better seasons than this year (or the 20+ conference championships for that matter). When your team finishes first twice and second once in a three year period, that's pretty hard to beat. Anyone who states that MU's best season ever was this year obviously doesn't have much of a grasp on MU's (or college basketball's) history.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Last year was not Mizzou's best season ever. It could have been, but was not. Maybe for win total, but that has more to do with the number of games when compared to past seasons. Plenty of conference championships that would qualify as 'best season ever' over this one. Mizzou's consecutive Premo national championships in 1921 and 1922 along with a #2 national ranking in 1920 would easily trump this season as well.

You got me. Those 20's teams were real juggernauts.

[Kodos]

Indeed. MU is a storied program for sure.

[cartman]

Plenty of schools claim Helms basketball titles:

Mythical national championship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Before this thread I'd never had heard of Premo-Poretta titles. And most of links I saw that referenced them seemed to be Mizzou fans discrediting KU's Helms title claims.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Anyone who states that MU's best season ever was this year obviously doesn't have much of a grasp on MU's (or college basketball's) history.

Well, I know they have the same number of final four appearances as Harvard. And 137 less digamma national titles. Would be 138, but Thomas Jefferson had mad, mad skills for William and Mary in 1761.

[wade moore]

I see what you did there

[tarcone]

Jarrod Uthoff has decided to transfer from Wisconsin. He is a 6'8" forward that was a re shirt this past season. He is a Cedar Rapids, Iowa native.

The B1G recently changed a rule that makes it difficult to transfer to schools in the B1G. It can be done if the player is given a full release. The change allows players to recive scholarships from other B1G schools. Before it didnt.
Bo Ryan, Wiskys coach, has put together a 25 school restriction list where Othoff cannot transfer. It also includes the entire ACC, Iowa State, Marquette and UNI.

Uthoff would like to consider Iowa and Indiana as spots to land. But those schools are not allowed by Ryan.
Uthoff has appealed the to the Wisky compliance office.

A couple of seasons ago, an Iowa recruit, Ben Brust decided to leave Iowa because of the coaching change. He signed at Iowa. He decided to go to Wisky. The Big Ten rule at the time, since amended, didn’t allow players to transfer from one Big Ten school to another and remain on scholarship. Brust appealed to the Big Ten’s Academics and Eligibility Subcommittee to waive the rule, but was denied on April 22, 2010.
A week later, an 11-member committee made up of Big Ten faculty representatives voted in favor of an appeal by Wisconsin on Brust’s behalf. Brust later signed with the Badgers and went on scholarship immediately.

When the Badgers won that appeal for Brust, this is what Walter Dickey, chairman of Wisconsin’s athletic board who represented the school in the appeal, told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel:

“The basic rationale behind the rule is to try to both support the national letter of intent and to prevent coaching or raiding (players). That is important to us within the conference. And every rule can’t cover every possible situation. I think one way of looking at it is you’ve got to uphold the rules no matter what. And I think another view, which is mine, is that rigid and mechanical adherence to rules that don’t advance their purpose undermines the legitimacy of the rules. “

Dickey also said this, which rings different in light of the Uthoff case:

“The other thing that has to be foremost here is student welfare. It is a free country. Although the conference has an interest in putting sound limitations on it, we should never forget that the welfare of the young people is what this is about.”

Ryan is taking a beating on this. As he should. What a scumbag move.

[mauchow]

It's a Big 10 Rule that doesn't allow transfers from within the conference. Why should Bo take a beating on that?

The situation with Brust vs Uthoff is 100% completely different. Bo gave Uthoff a full year of commitment with no return on his time. Brust was never on campus at Iowa and with the coaching change - Brust decided it wasn't for him and Wisconsin decided to challenge the ruling and won.

I agree Bo should get ridiculed but not for the Indiana/Iowa limitations. It should be for including the ACC in the list of schools that he's not able to go to.

Edited to add: Uthoff despite all the noise did not appeal any of the the restrictions,

So, in the end if the Uthoff thought the limitations were not a problem then everything should be dropped and this should be a non-issue all around.

I still agree, Bo is an idiot for adding the ACC to the limitations, but I guess it sounded like UVA was already trying to contact Uthoff and Bo wanted none of it, perhaps.
Creighton, I hope you enjoy this kid, he's a gamer.

[cartman]

Sounds like Larry Brown is indeed going to be the next coach at SMU.

Sources -- Larry Brown agrees to become next coach of SMU Mustangs - ESPN Dallas

[MrBug708]

The rule can be waived

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Exactly. And neither has Missouri. In contrast, KU hangs banners for their retroactive titles.

But without question, those MU seasons were better seasons than this year (or the 20+ conference championships for that matter). When your team finishes first twice and second once in a three year period, that's pretty hard to beat. Anyone who states that MU's best season ever was this year obviously doesn't have much of a grasp on MU's (or college basketball's) history.

Dude, no one gives a shit.

[tarcone]

The B1G does allow players to transfer and receive a scholarship. Uthoff has appealed to wiskys compliance board.

It is similar in the fact that Iowa had him on scholarship even though he hadn't stepped a foot on campus. Iowa released him and allowed him to go anywhere.

Ryan is being a dirtbag.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Dude, no one gives a shit.

the same could be said about Duke, of Wisconsin, or Iowa, and any other school.

There are tons of Mizzou fans on this board, so there likely are people who give a shit.

[Swaggs]

I can understand you wanting to get a high-major type of player added to your roster, but outside of a major scandal or a coaching change, I cannot see a situation where I would be supportive of letting a player transfer to an in-conference opponent or a team on the upcoming schedule. I imagine 95%+ of all high major coaches/programs would agree.

If the kid does not want to respect the rights of the release and cannot find a home at one of the other ~300 schools, he can pay out of pocket to go to one of the restricted schools or go to junior college for a year and open his recruitment back up.

If within a two-year period, the kid committed and signed with Iowa, then flipped and signed with Wisconsin, and now wants to go back to Iowa or try Indiana, Ryan is not the one being the dirtbag. It sounds like this kid has had a lot of opportunities and either keeps making the wrong choice or will have trouble being happy no matter where he lands.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Lathum

the same could be said about Duke, of Wisconsin, or Iowa, and any other school.

There are tons of Mizzou fans on this board, so there likely are people who give a shit.

My main point is that he is arguing over which season was MU best. I'm sure there are people who care, but we don't care about the argument.

You don't see Duke fans posting in these threads every chance they get to bash North Carolina. You don't see Wisconsin fans posting in these threads every chance they get to bash Michigan. (Who is Wisconsin's biggest rival?).

I think the best thing for me to do is put him on ignore.