Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

They could pool in some form every day? Wow, st. cronin, that is just way too powerful. Not only could they put ina strong bid for a critical service every day, but it simply blows up any attempt to use the public rule set on wealth and service bidding to logically analyse the results.

Perhaps if we knew about the pooling possibility, that might have been better. But without that, there was no chance we could put the bidding information together to make things make sense. It also means all the work I put into getting that plan going and implemented was basically worthless. Ouch.

I was very surprised that

- none of the Tarqs asked me if they could pool their resources before I told them they could, and

- that nobody publicly speculated that it was a possibility.

To me, it seemed a very obvious scenario.

Keep in mind, that ALL of the resources were potentially valuable, and for them to pool their resources would mean giving up shots at something else. EVERY DAY there were lawyers that weren't hired, and on several days NO lawyers were hired. That was catastrophic for the village.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I was very surprised that

- none of the Tarqs asked me if they could pool their resources before I told them they could, and

- that nobody publicly speculated that it was a possibility.

To me, it seemed a very obvious scenario.

Keep in mind, that ALL of the resources were potentially valuable, and for them to pool their resources would mean giving up shots at something else. EVERY DAY there were lawyers that weren't hired, and on several days NO lawyers were hired. That was catastrophic for the village.

It may havee been obvious to you, but 28 players missed it. I have a feeling that while the conclusion could have been made, it was a little less obvious than you think. Also, we knew from your early explanations that wealth didn't work in any traditional "I have X pieces of gold" system. Without a base unit of currency, I don't think it would occur to anyone that pooling could be used.

I figured out we were scattershot missing services early on. That's why I devised the plan. To control the services. If the village had bought into it better after the first day or so, we might have been able to help ourselves much more. Of course, that was based on the assumption that the wealthy were the wealthy and the poor the poor, and the wealthyw ould always win the service, as in the rule set. The introduction of pooling, with no hints as to its existence, really undercuts any such plan or attempt to analyse bidding and the wealth system. Just my opinion, of course.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It may havee been obvious to you, but 28 players missed it. I have a feeling that while the conclusion could have been made, it was a little less obvious than you think. Also, we knew from your early explanations that wealth didn't work in any traditional "I have X pieces of gold" system. Without a base unit of currency, I don't think it would occur to anyone that pooling could be used.

I figured out we were scattershot missing services early on. That's why I devised the plan. To control the services. If the village had bought into it better after the first day or so, we might have been able to help ourselves much more. Of course, that was based on the assumption that the wealthy were the wealthy and the poor the poor, and the wealthyw ould always win the service, as in the rule set. The introduction of pooling, with no hints as to its existence, really undercuts any such plan or attempt to analyse bidding and the wealth system. Just my opinion, of course.

Also keep in mind that by the time the Tarqs were pooling their resources, they had NO ability to kill. They HAD to hire an assassin to kill somebody.

[Ironhead]

I can at least say that I bid on something every day and used a service if I had it. I think it really hurt the village that we had 3 players drop from the game from not participating, several of whom started the game high in the wealth chain.

Something I still don't understand is why the village players in the game were not more forthcoming with the services they won. Perhaps it was because they just weren't bidding and didn't want to be seen as bad.

I enjoyed the game, although it got frustrating near the end.

[KWhit]

All I have to say is:

HOW MANY TIMES DID I HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE CLEAR ME BEFORE YOU PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE IT!?!?!?!??!?!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Also keep in mind that by the time the Tarqs were pooling their resources, they had NO ability to kill. They HAD to hire an assassin to kill somebody.

I think the lack of knowledge regarding pooling and what it could do with the one set of information we really had (the bidding and wealth table) far outweighs the lack of an automatic kill. We had no way of really pinning down the Tarqs. And that's above and beyond the fact we also had no clue outside of lawyers of questionable allegiance as to which side the dead were on--and that was only if they were tossed from the rock.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I think the lack of knowledge regarding pooling and what it could do with the one set of information we really had (the bidding and wealth table) far outweighs the lack of an automatic kill. We had no way of really pinning down the Tarqs. And that's above and beyond the fact we also had no clue outside of lawyers of questionable allegiance as to which side the dead were on--and that was only if they were tossed from the rock.

As KWhit points out, people kept using the lawyers to clear the same people, and nobody ever tried to use a lawyer to investigate somebody who was certain to be on trial.

The lawyers were seriously under-utilized. Basically the game had 2 seers, and the village just collectively decided to ignore that. Ardent said repeatedly that he had no knowledge of the process - and that was true. If Narcizo had been hired to investigate path12, they BOTH would have turned up bad. But for several days in a row nobody hired Narcizo.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by KWhit

All I have to say is:

HOW MANY TIMES DID I HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE CLEAR ME BEFORE YOU PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE IT!?!?!?!??!?!

I'm a trend setter, what can I say.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by KWhit

All I have to say is:

HOW MANY TIMES DID I HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE CLEAR ME BEFORE YOU PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE IT!?!?!?!??!?!

There were a lot of reasons, but what it came down to was, we had nothing concrete to go on. There was no out and out definite way to say you were good. We had to rely on the people saying they had cleared you. Then there was the wording of the scan "not guilty of wrongdoing", which was suggestive of individual wolves being responsible for kills, so we had to hit the right wolf on a given night. And then there was the oddity that no one to my knowledge before I did, just today, ask st. cronin if the wrongdoing referred tot that night or the whoel agme. It was my first time winning the lawyer and using him for a scan. I wish I had done it sooner. I am surprised no one asked it before me. If we knew it was a blanket statement of wrongdoing, we would have been far more likely to buy into those scans.

And then you basically got screwed by the wealth system and lack of information about how pooling was involved. We had no idea it existed and had to trust the rule set. So the wealthy looked unreasonably guilty when the bad guys gained the ability to pool. And that was right about the time I got us started on the plan. If we had done it sooner, more trends would have been obvious and true (such as my Day One analysis of the first sword killer hire).

A lot of people were wronged in this game, such as Dodgerchick, yourself, Anxiety and ardent enthusiast. And I honestly believe it was because we didn't have as much information as we should have had.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

There were a lot of reasons, but what it came down to was, we had nothing concrete to go on.

That was exactly how I wanted the game designed - nothing concrete. But if you have a seer scan available to you, do you use it on the guy who has already been at least pseudo cleared, or do you use it on somebody that nobody is talking about?

If somebody had just once scanned one of the wolves, the mechanic would have been a lot clearer.

The most important thing, though, was that people just refused to hire the lawyers (for the most part.)

[Abe Sargent]

As I mentioned, the COT was wiped out. Crazy to think that in a game with little information, the villagers would allow the wolves to point them in the direction of the only COT we were going to have and take down every single member.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

As KWhit points out, people kept using the lawyers to clear the same people, and nobody ever tried to use a lawyer to investigate somebody who was certain to be on trial.

The lawyers were seriously under-utilized. Basically the game had 2 seers, and the village just collectively decided to ignore that. Ardent said repeatedly that he had no knowledge of the process - and that was true. If Narcizo had been hired to investigate path12, they BOTH would have turned up bad. But for several days in a row nobody hired Narcizo.

They both would have turned up bad? How could we possibly know that?

And by the time someone gets information about someone on trial, they are already tried.

I agree the lawyers were seriously underutlized. I won the lawyer twice from the bottom wealth scale.

I think I would have made the lawyers out of game charatcers like you did with the other services. We also lost the use of lawyers because of kills, and their deaths also severely limited our ability to geta nd confirma lelgiances of the dead in the firts few days.

[Abe Sargent]

I want to thank cronin for taking hte time to run ad admittedly complex game. THis had to have been a lot of work. Thanks!

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

As I mentioned, the COT was wiped out. Crazy to think that in a game with little information, the villagers would allow the wolves to point them in the direction of the only COT we were going to have and take down every single member.

Yes. I couldn't believe that YOU kept getting arrested.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

That was exactly how I wanted the game designed - nothing concrete. But if you have a seer scan available to you, do you use it on the guy who has already been at least pseudo cleared, or do you use it on somebody that nobody is talking about?

If somebody had just once scanned one of the wolves, the mechanic would have been a lot clearer.

The most important thing, though, was that people just refused to hire the lawyers (for the most part.)

Well, that was the maddening part. WW is a game based on analysis and the utilization of facts. We essentially had no facts in this game. There was nothing we could say for sure about anyone. And that meant anyone could argue themselves out of bad situations or sow suspicion. And anyone could lead people to believe things that were toally false--because we couldn't confirm anything whatsoever.

I admire that you attempted a game like this to make it work, but if I ever see another game with "nothing concrete" involved in it, I am going to step out of it. It was maddening. I'm okay with some mystery--but when everything is complete guesswork, it takes all the fun out. The bad guys knew who were bad and good and had several tools to help them. The good guys had numbers and shots in the dark, with information systems in the lawsuits where we knew nothing about how they were judged, or that we weren't even knowledgeable of all the rules regarding the wealth/bidding system.

We were like fish in a barrel, and not one Tarq was standing outside the barrel, but six.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

As I mentioned, the COT was wiped out. Crazy to think that in a game with little information, the villagers would allow the wolves to point them in the direction of the only COT we were going to have and take down every single member.

What exactly was there to trust? At no point was there concrete information on which to base your COT, which we have seen set up in this manner in previous games only to turn out to be very false.

We shot ourselevs in the foot with you twice because it was villagers that let you go both times. If we had killed you sooner, we might have been able to get to the real Tarqs that much sooner.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Actually Narc did not use his veto. Mustang had purchased the clerical official, and used that to force a veto.

Ah-hah!! That one had us crapping our pants. We had you guys finished at that point and suddenly our assassination didn't go through, AND the vote got vetoed mysteriously. We started thinking Narcizo had gotten converted back!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Ah-hah!! That one had us crapping our pants. We had you guys finished at that point and suddenly our assassination didn't go through, AND the vote got vetoed mysteriously. We started thinking Narcizo had gotten converted back!

What do you mean with the assassination not going through? You mean you had control of the sword killer that day, sent in a kill order, and it didn't happen?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

I made a mistake that could have probably changed the course of the game for the village. The night that Anxiety and DaddyTorgo were in jail I had the services of Ardent. I arrested Path12 that night, ordered a scan on him with Ardent and also assigned Ardent to the senate to prosecute DT. St.Cronin PMed and told me I had to chose how I wanted to use Ardent. I decided to use him to prosecute DT because up to then we had no info on how lawyer use really worked. :-(

Definitely we (the traitors) got lucky with some of the lawyer use. The last couple days when the lawyer got used to prosecute, and then to scan Ironhead I breathed a big sigh of relief.

But there were a lot of things that could have turned the tide. We, the traitors, made a couple big blunders at the end too that could have ended this sooner.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

They could pool in some form every day? Wow, st. cronin, that is just way too powerful. Not only could they put ina strong bid for a critical service every day, but it simply blows up any attempt to use the public rule set on wealth and service bidding to logically analyse the results.

Perhaps if we knew about the pooling possibility, that might have been better. But without that, there was no chance we could put the bidding information together to make things make sense. It also means all the work I put into getting that plan going and implemented was basically worthless. Ouch.

I agree, the pooling of bids was the biggest thing to throw a wrench in the works. When I got converted and found out about that ... AH-HA! Suddenly, things made sense. But without somebody thinking of htat spontaneously it was just too easy to confuse the villagers about the bids.

On the other hand, if there were more loyal people towards the end talking we might have been able to piece that together. With half of the active contributers being traitors, it was easy to derail conversations that were heading the wrong way, and keep the focus on Ardent and Anxiety, for instance.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I figured out we were scattershot missing services early on. That's why I devised the plan. To control the services. If the village had bought into it better after the first day or so, we might have been able to help ourselves much more. Of course, that was based on the assumption that the wealthy were the wealthy and the poor the poor, and the wealthyw ould always win the service, as in the rule set. The introduction of pooling, with no hints as to its existence, really undercuts any such plan or attempt to analyse bidding and the wealth system. Just my opinion, of course.

I agree. I had pushed doing a bidding plan from day one, but people started suggesting I may be a traitor becuase of it (back when I wasn't). So I kind of backed off. I didn't want to get lynched day one in my first game. Looking back, that would have caught some wolves.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

What exactly was there to trust? At no point was there concrete information on which to base your COT, which we have seen set up in this manner in previous games only to turn out to be very false.

This is exactly my point - there WOULD have been good information if the village had made any attempt to play the game within the rules. Besides the lawyers not being hired, nobody ever really thought to use the lawyers in conjunction with who was likely to be jailed. Nobody ever tried to investigate the Tribune, who could NOT be arrested. Once you have a player who can't be arrested cleared, you make sure he gets bodyguarded, and work out from there.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by KWhit

All I have to say is:

HOW MANY TIMES DID I HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE CLEAR ME BEFORE YOU PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE IT!?!?!?!??!?!

LOL, sorry about that. I gotta tell you, it felt kind of dirty the way we kept encouraging people to pile onto the three of you.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

I can at least say that I bid on something every day and used a service if I had it. I think it really hurt the village that we had 3 players drop from the game from not participating, several of whom started the game high in the wealth chain.

Something I still don't understand is why the village players in the game were not more forthcoming with the services they won. Perhaps it was because they just weren't bidding and didn't want to be seen as bad.

I enjoyed the game, although it got frustrating near the end.

I agree, I think having so many inactive players was deadly for the villagers. I felt like I couldn't get anywhere when I was a villager, because so many people were not contributing. It was an energy sap trying to figure out if they were actually playing or not. That was real bad luck. That and the few blunders we had especially at the beginning of the game, wtih duplicate arrests, missed PMs, etc.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, you haven't revealed how the lawsuits worked yet, have you?

At the point in the game where I died I felt like I was starting to get a handle on the game. In hindsight, I'm not at all sad about the point where I did die as it would have driven me freaking insane trying to figure out the bids and the suits and the lack of attorney success.

Kudos to the Tarqs on being patient with their KWhit/Ardent strategy - letting a couple of potentially powerful people in the game live for days on end created exactly the sort of mistrust they wanted to see in the 2nd week.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, that was the maddening part. WW is a game based on analysis and the utilization of facts. We essentially had no facts in this game. There was nothing we could say for sure about anyone. And that meant anyone could argue themselves out of bad situations or sow suspicion. And anyone could lead people to believe things that were toally false--because we couldn't confirm anything whatsoever.

I admire that you attempted a game like this to make it work, but if I ever see another game with "nothing concrete" involved in it, I am going to step out of it. It was maddening. I'm okay with some mystery--but when everything is complete guesswork, it takes all the fun out. The bad guys knew who were bad and good and had several tools to help them. The good guys had numbers and shots in the dark, with information systems in the lawsuits where we knew nothing about how they were judged, or that we weren't even knowledgeable of all the rules regarding the wealth/bidding system.

We were like fish in a barrel, and not one Tarq was standing outside the barrel, but six.

I think that the lawyers being able to be killed was a problem. If we could always have two lawyers to confirm each other, than the seer role would have been much more robust. I think having the reveals come through the lawyers is an OK mechanic, but with the lawyer deaths it made it easy for the wolves to break.

But I also agree with St. Cronin that the villagers did have a chance, if we had gotten on top of things. If we had made a service bid plan, it wouldn't have been obvious about wealth pooling, but I think we could have caught people. For example, at the end, once I was up towards the top of the wealth chart, but was bidding with the traitors, I was able to get away with just not saying anything about my absent bids. Also we could have made sure the lawyers were being used every time, the bodyguards were being used well, etc.

However there were a lot of challenges for the villagers. It seemed there were just too many good targets. Who to bodyguard when there's lawyers, consuls, a tribune, and veteran active players to choose from?

And the general lack of knowledge about how any of the rules worked - it took us days to figure basic things out like what the services did. And then it was alwyas vague enough that the wolves could issue doubt into it - about how bodygaurds would work, about lawyer scans, etc. If any of these things had been clearly defined that would have been a lot harder.

It's hard to say because we all made some big mistakes, but it definitely felt like the deck was stacked against the villagers. Although even as a traitor we benefited from some real luck. It's hard to say.

[Tyrith]

Honestly, I didn't like this game. As a poor vanilla I was pretty much trying to feed on the crumbs that the other players gave me...NOT HAVING ANY INFORMATION THE ENTIRE GAME IS SERIOUSLY ASS. We blew up an entire CoT because the rival CoT was telling us too and we had no external way of doing so. Not having any idea what's going on IS NOT FUN. Cronin, I think the game was quite innovative, and I really appreciate all the effort you put into it, but it was frustrating as hell.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

What do you mean with the assassination not going through? You mean you had control of the sword killer that day, sent in a kill order, and it didn't happen?

Yes, we targeted Ardent that day. Nothing happened, and I'm not quite sure why. I surmised that it was because he was in jail, we couldn't kill him? But we just didn't know. We could have nearly won that day and all of a sudden we were in a lurch. It was scary there for a bit. We thought maybe several of our guys had gotten converted and were disrupting our orders.

What did happen there, St. Cronin?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Cronin, you haven't revealed how the lawsuits worked yet, have you?

I described earlier how they were resolved. After they were resolved, there was a fairly simple formula to recalculate who was wealthiest. Basically, a successful lawsuit, subtract 1.5. Successfully sued, add 1.5. Add these totals to the rankings, and then rerank.

The lawsuits were supposed to be a way to reward activity. With some players, I think it had the opposite effect.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Kudos to the Tarqs on being patient with their KWhit/Ardent strategy - letting a couple of potentially powerful people in the game live for days on end created exactly the sort of mistrust they wanted to see in the 2nd week.

That did work out well. Much of it was just luck - when Anxiety got out of that execution it was like a miracle - all of a sudden he looked ten times worse! We were lucky to be able to twist those events against them and that kept people from looking elsewhere the rest of the game. Which is good.

If only Ardent had targeted Anxiety with the sword killer - we would have been done right there!

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yes, we targeted Ardent that day. Nothing happened, and I'm not quite sure why. I surmised that it was because he was in jail, we couldn't kill him?

Exactly. This was a colossal blunder, because earlier in the game one of you (I forget who, exactly) had asked me what would happen in that case, and I explained that jail happens first, then kill. And then I believe it was YOU that actually jailed Ardent. I was a bit baffled by that sequence.

[st.cronin]

The main thing I wanted to accomplish with this ruleset was to FORCE the wolves to be active participants, since I consider that to be the most typical "problem" in our games. The wolves were more active than they are in some games, but I don't think I was entirely successful.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Exactly. This was a colossal blunder, because earlier in the game one of you (I forget who, exactly) had asked me what would happen in that case, and I explained that jail happens first, then kill. And then I believe it was YOU that actually jailed Ardent. I was a bit baffled by that sequence.

Yeah, that was a bit dumb I guess. I just didn't really think about it I guess, but I think the idea that you couldn't be killed in jail hadn't occurred to me. We can use services from jail it seemed, so I didn't think about whether you could be murdered there.

In retrospect one of my mistakes was not asking more direct questions of you about how rules worked. I felt unsure about a lot of things, and since often you would answer "try it and see" I think I stopped considering just asking you. Not sure why, but it was a mistake.

[Autumn]

I want to thank everyone, and especially St. Cronin for the game. Itwas my first, and it was a lot of fun (and I got to win!). I hadn't expected Werewolf to be 1) Quite so fun, 2) As attention and time consuming as it was. I had to tear myself away from the browswer and my spreadsheets!

And I want to apologize to all the good and loyal Senators who I mercilessly harassed and slandered in every effort to force their peers to throw them to their death. I did feel quite bad about it.

Although our plan was to kill Ardent the second night Anxiety was supposed to be executed. Then Narcizo could have said Anxiety came up as a traitor. I suppose that was a bit rubbing it in, but it could have been fun for us.

Anyway, thanks!

[Alan T]

I followed along even well after death. I enjoyed the game and how you had to think outside of the box on some parts. I remember when Chief came out with his info about who must have been the swordguy owner from the first kill (Swaggs' death), I was rooting that people would work with him down that path.

I think the only thing I didn't like in this game is something I don't seem to ever like in most games usually. it feels very rough when you just don't know what side someone is on when they die. I don't really have problems with not knowing professions in some games if its setup to be that way. But when you don't know if someone was good or bad after death, you just end up having everyone scratch their heads for days.

Other than that I enjoyed the game, enjoyed reading along, and wish I had stayed alive just a hair longer.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think the only thing I didn't like in this game is something I don't seem to ever like in most games usually. it feels very rough when you just don't know what side someone is on when they die. I don't really have problems with not knowing professions in some games if its setup to be that way. But when you don't know if someone was good or bad after death, you just end up having everyone scratch their heads for days.

This was partly to discourage villagers from using the assassin willy-nilly. Among the moves in this game that I thought were most questionable was the assassination of saldana, without any sort of evidence against him at all.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This was partly to discourage villagers from using the assassin willy-nilly. Among the moves in this game that I thought were most questionable was the assassination of saldana, without any sort of evidence against him at all.

Even though I am guessing only St.cronin ever saw it, I thought my analysis of Saldana's being good was very well thought out and complete.

Such ashame that entire message was a complete and total waste of time!

(I had sent a message to saldana via horsemen but evidentally didn't have a valid horseman).

At my time of death I felt ok about Saldana, Kwhit, Dodgerchick and uhh one other person I don't remember who. I died too early to really have a read on who was bad.

[Autumn]

Although amusingly the only two traitors killed were through fairly random sword kills. Antmeister we had some evidence against, and I was almost certain was bad, but it still was lucky. And barkeep as far as I know was pure luck. I think there were four sword kills by good guys, and 50% right is not too bad.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Honestly, I didn't like this game. As a poor vanilla I was pretty much trying to feed on the crumbs that the other players gave me...NOT HAVING ANY INFORMATION THE ENTIRE GAME IS SERIOUSLY ASS. We blew up an entire CoT because the rival CoT was telling us too and we had no external way of doing so. Not having any idea what's going on IS NOT FUN. Cronin, I think the game was quite innovative, and I really appreciate all the effort you put into it, but it was frustrating as hell.

" .

At some point I have to admit (sorry villagers) I basically gave up trying when it was clear that we weren't getting any kind of information and it just seemed really broken. I got slightly back into it my last day or something, but still...it wasn't "fun" like other games, cuz there was nothing to go on.

thanks though cronin. must have been a hell of a lot of work

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

" .

At some point I have to admit (sorry villagers) I basically gave up trying when it was clear that we weren't getting any kind of information and it just seemed really broken. I got slightly back into it my last day or something, but still...it wasn't "fun" like other games, cuz there was nothing to go on.

thanks though cronin. must have been a hell of a lot of work

Just looking at my notes, you didn't submit a bid on day 1 or day 2. On day 1, nobody bid on the pimp. On day 2, nobody bid on either lawyer.

If you don't play the game, I think you lose the right to complain.

[Autumn]

I know in the beginning of the game I didn't realize what importance the services were going to have. I did bid on some, just 'cause I thought it would be cool to have something to do. But I didn't imagine at that point that it was essential, so I can't blame people who didn't bid at all in the beginning.

[Mr. Wednesday]

On the night that I was murdered, I had bid on ardent's services, although perhaps (based on what cronin has said) I should have bid on Narcizo. Would I have won either?

And who duked me off of path12 onto KWhit?

[Mr. Wednesday]

(Dola, I'm surprised NOBODY picked up on that.)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

On the night that I was murdered, I had bid on ardent's services, although perhaps (based on what cronin has said) I should have bid on Narcizo. Would I have won either?

And who duked me off of path12 onto KWhit?

I *think* you had won Ardent's services. I'm not sure what you mean with the duking.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Either someone altered my vote, or you made a tabulation error. I had voted for path12, but my vote was shown for KWhit. I didn't bother to raise it since it didn't make a difference either way.

[Mr. Wednesday]

If I had survived to use ardent's services, I'm not sure I actually would have made good use of them... I was thinking along the lines of prosecuting someone, which likely would have succeeded and equally likely (at that point) wouldn't have been a Tarq.

Whereas, if I'd had ardent's services on the day that I was actually alive, I would have prosecuted path12 and things could haved turned out very differently.

[st.cronin]

I did make a *lot* of tabulation errors in this game, but, as I said, I don't think I made any that were critical, or even really important at all. Few of the votes were close.

The game was a lot harder to keep track of than I anticipated. I apologize both for the various errors and the way it sometimes took me an hour or so to process the results.

[st.cronin]

One thing which I would like some discussion on was the deadline schedule. Some people I think had a hard time figuring out the game because of the "instantaneous" night cycle, but I also think it allowed some people to have an impact even with schedules that were a bit goofy (thinking of Narcizo and Chief Rum).

[Autumn]

Obviously I don't have anything to compare it to, but I found the schedule worked fine for me.

[DaddyTorgo]

cronin...i did thank you for running the game. It's not like I was trying to pile on you.