Game of Thrones on HBO

[thesloppy]

For sure, but things have already been presented as disastrous for those in power. The Tyrells don't live in King's Landing, they could avoid most of those dangers by simply not being there during the assassination and following revolt, and as bad as the last King's Landing revolt went for the Starks or the Lannisters it only increased the power and influence of house Tyrell.......and their army is already there.

One could argue that a revolution of faith confined to King's Landing, pitting the Lannisters against the church, with the Tyrell army given free passage to the gates, is about as perfect a tactical situation the Tyrell's could be presented with.

[ISiddiqui]

It wouldn't be confined to King's Landing. The sparrows didn't just arise in KL.

[flere-imsaho]

On a side note, the real hero of the episode was that horse that successfully trotted up those (presumably marble, i.e. slippery) stairs. I'm pretty sure that if I ran up stairs like those I'd trip or slip and crack my head open.

[Kodos]

I'd really benefit from a graphic that shows the major characters from each house and their alliances. I frequently get lost on who I'm seeing and what their motivation is. But I still enjoy the show.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It wouldn't be confined to King's Landing. The sparrows didn't just arise in KL.

Well, I suppose that's where some presentation comes in, because I haven't seen or even heard mention of any other sparrows, or even the slightest evidence of the faith spreading to other cities/regions. We've seen several of the other, smaller ruling families and realms discussing tactics but absolutely no mention of church/sparrows/faith.

Lastly we're still talking medieval logistics here, nobody's getting on twitter to announce the High Sparrow's assassination, that news/revolution would still have to make it out of a city with two of the regions larges armies have already been mobilized. We've been shown a hint of a revolution, but also explicitly shown that all the pieces to stop/battle that revolution are also currently conveniently and coincidentally in the best place to do so.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Here's the thing - the Tyrells were presented with the option of the Lannisters inviting their army in to King's Landing to save the day. So not only would the Sparrow be overthrown, but their army would OCCUPY THE CITY. That's way too tempting to give up. Now that the populace is fully behind Crown + Church, they can't take the Sparrow out without putting their army at risk. Hence their hands are tied.

[ISiddiqui]

Also, if the Tyrells were to assassinate the High Sparrow and leave the city, it'd be way too easy for the Lannisters to blame the Tyrells and lead a Holy War to the gates of Highgarden.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Here's the thing - the Tyrells were presented with the option of the Lannisters inviting their army in to King's Landing to save the day. So not only would the Sparrow be overthrown, but their army would OCCUPY THE CITY. That's way too tempting to give up. Now that the populace is fully behind Crown + Church, they can't take the Sparrow out without putting their army at risk. Hence their hands are tied.

This is exactly how I took it as well. Nice summary.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Also, if the Tyrells were to assassinate the High Sparrow and leave the city, it'd be way too easy for the Lannisters to blame the Tyrells and lead a Holy War to the gates of Highgarden.

Except both those armies are already mobilized and in King's Landing.

...but yeah, I'm just niggling now. My labored point being that I totally understand everything they're suggesting, it's just presented sloppily and is heavily dependent on the viewer suspending disbelief.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

So I just had a very interesting theory pop into my head ... I wonder if the High Sparrow will insist that Zombie Mountain can no longer be a member of the new, Holy Kingsguard. And thus, Cersei's choice of champion (and trump card) is gone.

I like it. I think that or something similar is going to happen. I also enjoy seeing the smirk wiped off her face when she realizes that she's not as smart as she thinks she is.

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

On a side note, the real hero of the episode was that horse that successfully trotted up those (presumably marble, i.e. slippery) stairs.

I can't decide if that, or Mace Tyrell's plumage, was the most impressive part of that scene.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Tywin was reincarnated... OK, we need one of those, but I'd like Sam better if he found a different way to piss him off. He may be more worthy of the sword, but it wasn't an honorable exit.

Wasnt explicitly stated, but cant help thinking Sam realizes that having an extra Valyrian Steel Sword around might come in pretty handy sooner rather than later, no ?

The opening scene in the woods was really well done i thought . (Can Bran do Kung-Fu now, though ? )

and i liked that Sam found his own way to express his pride/declare his allegiance rather than suddenly standing up to his father. Yeah hes going out the back door, but hes banking on himself to take care of his family himself.

It seems clear that Arya and the jealous one (kinda forgot what her deal is exactly) square off and then Arya will be on her way with the troupe, going back to Kings Landing or maybe the Riverlands, no ? The Jaquen character turned out to be way less interesting than it initially looked like, but i guess that was by design.

@flere-imsaho: The horses have been used pretty stunningly all series long. I know its a weird thing to notice, but having spent a fair bit of time helping out a friend with her horse i'm definitely apreciative of a good horse-scene

[stevew]

Just caught up with this week. We just saw Dany pull a heel turn, right?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by stevew

Just caught up with this week. We just saw Dany pull a heel turn, right?

I´m gonna wait and see how she reacts to what has been happening in her absence (slavers retaking control, Tyrion making deals with them).

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by stevew

Just caught up with this week. We just saw Dany pull a heel turn, right?

I think Dhaario (sp?) made a n interesting comment before she went off on her own where he said "you are a conqueror Danearys Stormborn".....or something like that.

I have thought we'd see her morph into her father throughout the series. Not a book reader so basing that only on the show. But now, not as sure about that. There's a lot of things going on and I'm more inclined to think otherwise.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I think Dhaario (sp?) made a n interesting comment before she went off on her own where he said "you are a conqueror Danearys Stormborn".....or something like that.

That speech made zero sense to me btw ...

Dany: I´m gonna go to Westeros and beat everybody up and take whats mine

Pretty Hair: You are not made to sit in a chair, you are a conqueror (or sth like that)

So what´s his suggestion here exactly ? Conquer someplace that doesn´t have a piece of furniture at the center of it ? Conquer stuff for the sake of it and then move on ? At least Tyrion´s try at an appeal had sense to it, telling her that just maybe that stupid chair in a land she´s never consciously seen isn´t worth it when she´s actually able to do a ton of good just where she is.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by whomario

That speech made zero sense to me btw ...

Dany: I´m gonna go to Westeros and beat everybody up and take whats mine

Pretty Hair: You are not made to sit in a chair, you are a conqueror (or sth like that)

So what´s his suggestion here exactly ? Conquer someplace that doesn´t have a piece of furniture at the center of it ? Conquer stuff for the sake of it and then move on ? At least Tyrion´s try at an appeal had sense to it, telling her that just maybe that stupid chair in a land she´s never consciously seen isn´t worth it when she´s actually able to do a ton of good just where she is.

I took the comment to mean that while she is musing about being back on the throne, in her rightful place, he was observing that she is at her best as a leader of warriors rather than a passive ruler of peacetime activities. In other words....even if Westeros gave her the crown, it would not be her way to take it back.

Maybe a bit of foreshadowing is how I saw the comment. But yeah, if things go dramatically different, it ends up being a strange & disposable comment.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by whomario

That speech made zero sense to me btw ...

Dany: I´m gonna go to Westeros and beat everybody up and take whats mine

Pretty Hair: You are not made to sit in a chair, you are a conqueror (or sth like that)

So what´s his suggestion here exactly ? Conquer someplace that doesn´t have a piece of furniture at the center of it ? Conquer stuff for the sake of it and then move on ? At least Tyrion´s try at an appeal had sense to it, telling her that just maybe that stupid chair in a land she´s never consciously seen isn´t worth it when she´s actually able to do a ton of good just where she is.

She's a conqueror, not a ruler, is what he's trying to say. They're two very different jobs. The former is all about conquest (or liberation, if you want to appeal to her as Breaker of Chains). The latter is administration, which is why Robert Baratheon went to get Eddard Stark to "Hand"le it for him. He couldn't be bothered. He wanted to hunt, drink, and get laid.

What "Pretty Hair" was saying is that while she may be good (or may not be good, your call) at administration, it isn't what she was meant to do. If she sails the Narrow Sea and takes back the Seven Kingdoms, what next? He seems to think that for her, it would be as it was for Alexander - that she would see the extent of her domain and weep, for there would be no more worlds to conquer.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

She's a conqueror, not a ruler, is what he's trying to say. They're two very different jobs. The former is all about conquest (or liberation, if you want to appeal to her as Breaker of Chains). The latter is administration, which is why Robert Baratheon went to get Eddard Stark to "Hand"le it for him. He couldn't be bothered. He wanted to hunt, drink, and get laid.

What "Pretty Hair" was saying is that while she may be good (or may not be good, your call) at administration, it isn't what she was meant to do. If she sails the Narrow Sea and takes back the Seven Kingdoms, what next? He seems to think that for her, it would be as it was for Alexander - that she would see the extent of her domain and weep, for there would be no more worlds to conquer.

i get that. It just didn´t make sense uttering this as a sort of rebuttal/counterargument. "Don´t aim for the crown, you are a conqueror"

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

i get that. It just didn´t make sense uttering this as a sort of rebuttal/counterargument. "Don´t aim for the crown, you are a conqueror"

I think it was more of a don't try to do what you did in Meereen and try to negotiate among squabbling interests. Don't try to make deals with some Westerosi. Just roll them over.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by whomario

i get that. It just didn´t make sense uttering this as a sort of rebuttal/counterargument. "Don´t aim for the crown, you are a conqueror"

Aiming for the crown means playing the game. If you conquer the territories, the crown will come. If you get involved in intrigue...well, Meereen shows about how well that's worked for her so far.

[bronconick]

There's now a Rifftrax of S1E1 of Game of Thrones

[JPhillips]

More Lyanna Mormont, please.

[Ned Doolittle]

When Arya got stabbed I was just about to laugh because I thought that was gonna be the end of her never ending storyline that had nothing to do with the overall main plot line since season 1. I literally was about to start laughing cuz I thought "wait this is the payoff for all those episodes of her training?!" and then she fell in the water and then undramatically resurfaced seconds later. At least credit the writers for not making us wait a whole week to see if she survived the fall into the water, I would've thought they would milk that for another week.

[ISiddiqui]

Spoiler

Lady Stoneheart is totally coming back right? What, with the Brotherhood without Banners turning bad?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Coffee Warlord]

God I hope not (for Stoneheart).

The Hound best have some exceedingly dramatic part to play in upcoming events. I honestly thought all the theories regarding him were typical fan hype. We've started hitting my limit as far as Popular People Who Are Dead Coming Back.

Little Lyanna and the Queen of Thorns (as usual) stole the show.

edit: If the Arya thing really went down like that, I'll be highly disappointed. It makes absolutely no sense that she'd be just waltzing around town without a care in world.

[Ryno]

Yeah, the Arya scene was bizarre. The last we see of her she's in danger and hiding. Now she's brazenly careless and apparently unarmed. As lame as dream sequences generally are, I have to think it's preferable to what we saw. Maybe a warg dream?

I don't know if anybody cares, but I grabbed a few screen shots and transcribed maybe 60% of Sansa's letter. Not terribly interesting, but confirms the recipient (assuming she ends up sending it).

Spoiler

... Now you have a [chance?] to fulfil your
... knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride hard for Winterfell
... your aid, and I shall see to it that you are [rewarded?]

[Pyser]

The Hound storyline was a waste of time. I didn't need a refresher that "good people die" in this world.

Basically ending the episode with a shot of the Hound still alive and now healthy would've accomplished the same thing in 15 less minutes.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Pyser

The Hound storyline was a waste of time. I didn't need a refresher that "good people die" in this world.

Basically ending the episode with a shot of the Hound still alive and now healthy would've accomplished the same thing in 15 less minutes.

Fewer.

[Ryno]

What?

[sabotai]

Nothing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Pyser

The Hound storyline was a waste of time. I didn't need a refresher that "good people die" in this world.

Basically ending the episode with a shot of the Hound still alive and now healthy would've accomplished the same thing in 15 less minutes.

But we got Ian McShane!

I liked the episode but I just can't stand any of the Arya stuff. Haven't given a shit about her since the first couple seasons. Feels like her storyline is going nowhere.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Pyser

The Hound storyline was a waste of time. I didn't need a refresher that "good people die" in this world.

Basically ending the episode with a shot of the Hound still alive and now healthy would've accomplished the same thing in 15 less minutes.

I assumed they dragged it on to set a Mountain showdown- Hound on religious side, Mountain on crown side.

[Landshark44]

ian mcshane signed on for one episode?

[bhlloy]

Seriously, the Arya stuff was the dumbest in a season where it's becoming sadly too common. She's this well trained badass who decided to screw over the most dangerous group of assassins in the world and then figured it was a great idea wander the same town without any disguise throwing bags of money around.

Unless the angle they are going for is that she's a naive child still who won't have any part to play in the remainder of the series, WTF.

The Hound stuff was deathly boring too. Yay, he's alive. Couldn't we have determined that without 15 minutes waste of screen time?

[Arles]

That was the first "meh" episode. The Hound joining the peace corps (before their inevitable slaughter), Jon and Sansa going from house to house selling girl scout cookies and Arya deciding to walk the pier unarmed hours before she leaves. I guess it is setting things up, but the Bronn-Jaime and Lyanna Mormont scene were the only bright marks a pretty mundane episode. All that said, I'm not any less excited about what is to come.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Seriously, the Arya stuff was the dumbest in a season where it's becoming sadly too common. She's this well trained badass who decided to screw over the most dangerous group of assassins in the world and then figured it was a great idea wander the same town without any disguise throwing bags of money around.

Yeah, that was silly...Arya's standing alone on the bridge, looking blissfully as if she was about to burst into song, as the focus shifts to the only other person on the bridge: a kindly old lady! That couldn't have been more telegraphed. Lady Mormont would've leapt on that smiling old lady and tore out her throat with her teeth as soon as she stepped on the bridge. In 5 minutes that punk-ass little girl exhibited better judgment than every other leader we've seen up until this point. "Yeah, I remember that letter, Slick. I wrote it. When I was 8." I swiped all my other character's concerns off the table, and am 100% Bear Island from here on out.

[Ned Doolittle]

I think the show's problem is the juggling of all these plot lines that apparently will be resolved by the last two (or even less) episodes of the series. Like a grand collision, trying to make for some massive coming together of all the plot lines. That doesn't necessarily make for great tv because the payoff has to be so huge and massive that it has the potential to lead to a lot of "meh's". They really need to tie up some plot lines. Raise the white flag, admit they dropped the ball on the entire Dorne storyline and wrap it up so there can be some closure. Also stop with reintroducing past characters, let them stay dead. It takes away from the gravity of death when ppl pop up again after dying. I hope Stannis is indeed dead, for the story's sake.

[Groundhog]

I didn't mind the episode, but the Hound is/was one of my favourite characters, too. His scenes may have been pointless re: advancing the plot, but I thought they had some excellent dialogue, heavily condensing a couple of scenes/themes from the book much earlier on that weren't adapted. The next 2 episodes are traditionally where we get the big climaxes... it looks like it will be in the North, but we've seen a few battles over Winterfell already, so maybe it will be in the capital, or even a reappearance from Dorne. Dorne seems like the most 'together' of all the houses at the moment, and Kings Landing seems pretty ripe for the taking.

I also really liked Jamie at the siege this episode, both his interaction with the Freys and the Blackfish. Good to see Margaery is/appears to be trying to pull one over the High Sparrow, because I found her sudden piety pretty unconvincing. I doubt the High Sparrow feels any differently though. He's as ambitious as any of the nobles, although they've only revealed that a couple of times.

Arya's scene doesn't make any sense unless she is setting out to fool the faceless man, but taking a couple of stab wounds to the stomach doesn't seem like the best way to achieve that. But hey, Jon had worse. It seemed like she was headed somewhere in particular after the attack, so maybe she's got some Lord of Light-esque magic waiting for her too.

[Ned Doolittle]

The only thing that probably makes sense about Arya walking carelessly about was that she doesn't have the knowledge that we the viewer has. She is unaware the Waif has been stalking her and reporting to Ja'Quen. We know that. Of course she must've known that her not assassinating the actress would be found out, and she must've known there'd be repercussions (hence digging up Needle). But she wasn't aware of the exchange between the Waif and Ja'Quen, where he gave permission for Arya to be killed. So it sorta kinda makes a little sense that she was as cavalier about her safety as she was.

What's troubling about her is when you think about it she hasn't really evolved or advanced in several seasons. She's always been the stubborn and thick minded loner who knows right from wrong. The only thing she's done is maybe learned how to fight in the dark/fight blind. But she isn't going to have access to the faces from The House of Black and White, it's not like the assassins have magical powers - they just have access to tons of faces of dead ppl. So what has she gained? How has she advanced? Instead of having the traditional roller coaster of a story arc hers has been more of a flat line.

[Groundhog]

That's the big issue with characters like Arya and Daenerys for the show runners. The books were a planned trilogy before GRRM decided to expand it in true Fantasy fashion, and it shows nowhere more than these 2 characters IMO. Their stories feel so far removed from the main plot that it's going to be interesting to see how they manage to tie it all together in the end without having it all feel like a complete waste of time.

If Arya does just sail back to Westeros now, TBH, it already feels like all her adventures across the sea with the Faceless Man were every bit as pointless as they felt reading/watching it all along.

Daenerys needs to head back to Westeros having actually achieved something in Slavers Bay outside of temporary freeing of slaves. Tyrion might have come up with the long-term plan himself, but I don't think it would hold if everyone left for Westeros.

[Mota]

Yup, after enjoying the first half of the season, these two most recent episodes reminded me why I couldn't continue reading the books.

There have been so many additional plotlines either introduced or re-introduced the past two episodes, to be honest I have no idea what is happening in a lot of them. Who are these people? Why should I care? Do we really need to have this many characters, if they were of so little importance that they didn't have to show them to us for multiple seasons? I do know that for most of the storylines shown in this week's episode, I just didn't care all that much.

It reminds me a lot of the Robert Jordan series of books. The guy lost focus and his series went off the rails, he ended up dying with the books going nowhere. It took another author to come in, put things together, and wrap up the series for him over 3 more books. Apparently it ended well, but I was about 3 books of "walking in place" away from anything happening so I have been unable to advance.

I don't wish that of this TV show.

[Groundhog]

I think if anything they've done a decent job of limiting the overall number of characters (compared to the books ), and this non-book season wasted no time in trimming away some of the big (in the sense of their status, if not impact on the show) names that aren't intended to be around for the end-game.

[Simbo Klice]

It seems to me that they are using this season to reorient with the books as much as possible- Having Jamie go to Riverrun, Ironborn to Mereen... With the season already a lot of the way done, it definitely doesn't feel like The Winds of Winter will be entirely covered this go-around.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Seriously, the Arya stuff was the dumbest in a season where it's becoming sadly too common. She's this well trained badass who decided to screw over the most dangerous group of assassins in the world and then figured it was a great idea wander the same town without any disguise throwing bags of money around.

I subscribe to the theory that it wasn't actually Arya. The hair, right handed vs left handed, the money, etc all seem to indicate that it's someone else (Jaqen?) with an Arya mask.

Originally Posted by Groundhog

If Arya does just sail back to Westeros now, TBH, it already feels like all her adventures across the sea with the Faceless Man were every bit as pointless as they felt reading/watching it all along.

I can't agree. She's probably learned enough that when the time comes it'll be more believable when she crosses a name or two off her list. That wouldn't have been the case without the trip to Braavos.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I subscribe to the theory that it wasn't actually Arya. The hair, right handed vs left handed, the money, etc all seem to indicate that it's someone else (Jaqen?) with an Arya mask.

To what purpose would Jaqen do that ? (Edit: Ah, to test the other one ? Is Arya that tall by now to make it seem plausible ? I always loose track of these things)

I do think theres going to be more to it than met the eye with regard to Arya, my immediate thought was that she not reacted spontanously but elaborately faked her own death. Whats the equivalent of a bullet-proof vest in GOTland ? Yeah, didn´t look to be faking at the end but i do think she lay a false trail and planned to get out of dodge another way, maybe with the troupers ?

I think the problem with Arya is that there is only so much the showrunners can do for us to buy into this idea of someone her age turning into a trained killer. Her not succeeding at this naturally will look like her failing rather than her turning her back on it being on the brink of success (hope that makes sense).

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by whomario

To what purpose would Jaqen do that ? (Edit: Ah, to test the other one ? Is Arya that tall by now to make it seem plausible ? I always loose track of these things)

I do think theres going to be more to it than met the eye with regard to Arya, my immediate thought was that she not reacted spontanously but elaborately faked her own death. Whats the equivalent of a bullet-proof vest in GOTland ? Yeah, didn´t look to be faking at the end but i do think she lay a false trail and planned to get out of dodge another way, maybe with the troupers ?

From my understanding of the faceless men, the size of the body does not matter, they are just taking the face and in doing so, magically morph into whatever that person was entirely.

And I also believe that is the case, that the real test is being done to the Waif and that was not Arya at all that was stabbed. It would take massive assumptions to risk being hunted and hope for a knife to the gut in order to fake the death as opposed to what could have happened and was what was asked of the Waif, which was basically a quick, clean and painless kill.

[AnalBumCover]

Originally Posted by whomario

(Edit: Ah, to test the other one ? Is Arya that tall by now to make it seem plausible ? I always loose track of these things)

Well, he did order the waif to "don't let her suffer."

(edit) hollmt beat me to it.

[Logan]

Pretty sure my eyes will literally roll out of my head if some of that stuff happens with Arya.

[Pyser]

wouldnt arya have to be dead for someone else to "use" her face?