Werewolf CXXV - Vegas, Baby - VILLAGERS WIN - Page 33

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 05:53 AM

Well we can obviously go back & forth. I'm interested in what CR & Jackal have to say. They know your play much better than I do. If they don't think you could pull this off, they will lynch me. And then know they were played.

As for my betting record, each vote is detailed here. I'm very comfortable with that. I guess you are also willing to believe I was the one and only wolf that had a special ability. I guess you are also reading more into the crooked cops description than I am. It says it can get you out of trouble, or someone else in it. No mention of an actual kill ability. Read the descriptions clearly. Autumn was very clever, and very specific, on the abilities for Knuckles & Crazy Legs. Why wouldn't he have spelled it out a little better for the crooked cop? I believe he was there one time only, and bestowed on you a one time only ability. And you held it until now.

I just think you have conveniently twisted a few of the facts to make it appear differently. But much as I led discussion on math, and how exact it was, I 'm also specifically looking at the descriptions of the services. It's also convenient to spell out your finances now, when no one can dispute them. No services would allow us to confirm whether you are being truthful. Just another bit of misdirection...

[I'll be in the office in an hour, and hopefully we'll have a good discussion, CR/Jackal weigh in, and they will know how today's final vote will go]

The Jackal · 02-22-2011, 06:53 AM

I have a doctor's appointment this morning so I'm going to be out, and presumably dead by the time I get back. I can see the case for both parties at the moment. Honestly the only thing you have going for you in my eyes tyke is your reveal, because it does seem odd that there would be only one wolf role. However, it is not out of the realm of possibility, and it is also not so unbelievable that you could have faked it.

Now, this is not cut and dry. It should be interesting to see what CR learns during the night. Though if he scans you as wolf, tyke, I doubt a defense of "the cop set you up" is going to get you off. If you want to prove JAG is a wolf you'll need to dig deeper, maybe find some holes in his story or the money.

hoopsguy · 02-22-2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny

I think the village may be missing something here. Are we sure Hoopsguy isn't a wolf?

This is better logic for me as a wolf than what I saw earlier in the game

I kid, I kid

hoopsguy · 02-22-2011, 07:02 AM

And this has continued to be a fun game reading along. Nice work to both the moderator and the players for making this the best "read along while dead" game I've seen in months, if not years.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:10 AM

None of you can sleep this night, and even the temptations of Vegas don't interest you. There's so few of you left, those who were so close. And yet one of you, one of you is a mobster.

Chief sends Mario out to investigate one of you, then calls him back, changing his mind, calls him back once more. The indecision is clear on his face. Mario finally shakes his head and takes off, eager to get his night's work done, one way or another.

He comes back into the hotel lobby in the morning with a thick envelope. "You won't believe it," he tells Chief Rum. "This guy is dirty as they come." He starts to spill open the envelope but just then there is a gasp and someone turns up the TV in the corner.

"Another murder today in Sin City. The body of Tyketime was found in his hotel room, riddled with bullets. Police have apprehended hitman "Crazy Legs" Louie in suspicion of the crime." Chief begins to look at JAG. JAG looks at The Jackal, time begins to slow as chair are pushed back and men give each other some space.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:11 AM

But the TV continues blaring. "Most surprising is the police officials indicate that evidence on the scene suggests that Tyketime was a member of the Lupino family, a reputed organized crime syndicate. Evidence linking him to several deaths in the city this past week was collected. Officials are mystified."

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:12 AM

"Seen here is "Crazy Legs" Louie on his way to the jail cell. You can hear him calling out to the cameras. 'The guy was crazy, crazier than me. He asked me to do it, I swear. He paid me!'"

Las Vegas is now free of mobsters. The residents of Vegas have won!

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:14 AM

MAJOR VICTORIES
The Residents for ridding Vegas of the Mob

MINOR VICTORIES
The Lupino family for eliminating their archrivals, the Vampiri

Chief Rum for outlasting his rival, the Gambler

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 08:19 AM

Obviously I was in a jam on the last day with no endgame in sight for me. Once i lost the PI bid, I knew I was done for. But I've grown to respect you guys to not play out the inevitable. So forgive me one last time for this unorthodox ending. You three deserved to stand tall. Congrats! Good game.

Special kudos to Autumn for a fantastic theme for my first Werewolf game. The flavor of the roles was great, and the money mechanic was critical down the stretch.

Thanks to all for a fun game. Vegas is certainly safer with all of the mafia scum run out of town.

Passacaglia · 02-22-2011, 08:19 AM

Way to bring it home, village -- good job guys! And good game all, thanks Autumn!

Danny · 02-22-2011, 08:23 AM

Great game Autumn! Well done village!

Zinto · 02-22-2011, 08:26 AM

Once again awesome game Autumn. Good job villagers and nice job Tyke staying in it for so long.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:26 AM

Thanks guys. I have lots of debriefing to do, but let me say -

Tyketime, you were much, much, much, much closer to winning than you thought. If you hadn't bothered pulling that thing on JAG you had at least a 50% shot.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:34 AM

I will also apologize to everyone for not putting up clearer rules to this game, especially knowing we had what, three brand new players and one second time player? I usually try to rehash the rules around quoting PMs and editing in every game, but didn't bother this time, to my chagrin.

I was glad to see it end this way only because while I was enjoying Tyke's run I knew it was partly based on the trust his faked "quoted PM" drew. I apologize if anyone thinks I should have taken a different response to that situation.

And let me add, that was a piece of work! I could tell Tyke slaved over it because it really did sound, even to me, like something I had written. I was floored.

Passacaglia · 02-22-2011, 08:46 AM

Can we get everyone's bets and bids?

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:53 AM

Theoretically you could ...

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 08:59 AM

I want to commend our wolves, who not only had to deal with a lot of bad luck, but who included two guys who'd never played before and one on his second game!

And then I want to commend the village for doing some amazing work with the resources you had. You guys were all over it.

JAG · 02-22-2011, 09:03 AM

First, awesome game Autumn. Really well put together, I loved the unique feel of two sets of wolves and figuring out how to spend money, every day there were multiple interesting decisions to make and information to parse. Just a very well-designed game and a blast to play.

Second, really well done Tyke. Even when I knew you were a wolf, I still thought you actually had the role you claimed. I think in your place at the end there, the best way to handle it would have been to come out and claim you didn't win your bid on Crazy Legs, then hope to kill Jackal or I and hope CR scans the person you killed. That was certainly a unique ending though, I love Autum's write-up of Crazy Legs going to jail.

Third, FYI Chief, when you were asking me to confirm how much I sent you...when you PM'ed me, you told me the amount that was sent. I didnt want to disuade you from the correct decision that I was a villager though.

Lastly, unless I think of other stuff, woohoo village.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:04 AM

I'm glad to answer any questions. But here's a couple of highlights to me:

The bet was won by only a total of four people in the first three days. That surprised me and quickly concentrated wealth in only a few individuals. Unfortunately for the wolves, none of them were part of those four.

Day three there were six people on the block receiving votes. Unbeknown to anyone but me, five of them were wolves. The other was Hoopsguy ;-) That was totally crazy. I thought having so many brand new players as wolves would keep them under the radar, but somehow you guys unearthed them that quickly. That put them in a very tight spot.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Second, really well done Tyke. Even when I knew you were a wolf, I still thought you actually had the role you claimed. I think in your place at the end there, the best way to handle it would have been to come out and claim you didn't win your bid on Crazy Legs, then hope to kill Jackal or I and hope CR scans the person you killed. That was certainly a unique ending though, I love Autum's write-up of Crazy Legs going to jail.

I hate to even tell Tyke this, but this is what the situation was before he made his post. He had Jackal down to kill. Chief was going to scan Jackal. It would have been you, him and Chief, and I think Chief was at least willing to vote you.

Chief, what would you have done, do you think, if it had come to that (without Tyke pretending to win the bodyguard and all)?

JAG · 02-22-2011, 09:08 AM

Thinking about it, Tyke never had a name for his role, did he? I should've noticed that. Oh, one other thing I thought of, I hesitated to cone out with the info CR was cleared initially because I knew he had a role (Casino Owner) that sounded like it could make some money for us and I didn't want to paint a bullseye on his back that early. It made me a lot more inclined to trust hoops' reveal but I didn't want to come out too strongly on his side for fear of giving something away about Chief.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:09 AM

Yeah, JAG, I think it was interesting - and instrumental - that you didn't reveal his role. I had figured that would get Chief lynched at some point, given how the village usually works.

Passacaglia · 02-22-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

Theoretically you could ...

Hmm, just thought it would be interesting. It looks like none of the wolves won any of the bids I was tracking, and I wondered how interested they were in trying to hire the seer or even the BG to gain some potential trust.

Also, why were the bids on Knuckles so high? If I were a wolf, I would have just let the other team have it, or let a villager get it and use it, and hope for the best. Personally, I tried to bid on Knuckles a few times just to get a no-kill, but my bids weren't very high, and I figure not many other villagers were interested in that (Hi JAG!).

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 09:13 AM

With Crimson & Daddy being lynched on Days 3&4, I really was on my own the entire rest of the game. I truly was in uncharted territory. I just didn't think there was any reason for CR to scan anyone but me. I guess I never considered the possibility that he might scan either JAG/Jackal. I knew my last "play" was absurd, but I was obviously scrambling at that point.

My mistake was not doing a better job trying to track the overall money situation. I had a lot of money down the stretch. And I knew I had to win Crazy Legs every night in order to keep this going. I'm sure I overspent two nights ago (I think I spent close to 13,000 between Crazy & the PI). So on the last night, I knew I had to bid enough to win the NK again. I didn't have enough for Mario. But it turns out I was only a few hundred short for Mario. That tells me I may have actually had enough to win them both again, and go for the win. So I think that was my critical mistake.

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Thinking about it, Tyke never had a name for his role, did he?

Sure... I was The Investor...

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

I hate to even tell Tyke this, but this is what the situation was before he made his post. He had Jackal down to kill. Chief was going to scan Jackal. It would have been you, him and Chief, and I think Chief was at least willing to vote you.

Chief, what would you have done, do you think, if it had come to that (without Tyke pretending to win the bodyguard and all)?

Bah!

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:18 AM

Yeah, Tyke, if you could have seen the money totals you could have easily gone the rest of the game winning both.

The other night tyke robbed NTN, who had a boatload of money, killed someone with decent money (I forget who) and I think won the bet. At that point he had $15,000, and no one else had more than $2,000. Of course he didn't know that, so he did over spend.

Pass, I'm willing to give out any info like that, it's just I don't want to try to paste in a whole spreadsheet.

In general the wolves almost (never ever?) never bid on the seer or the bodyguard. They pretty much spent all their money on night kills. I had thought they would try for the seer as well, but as Saldana pointed out to me I think without an assured revenue stream they didn't feel they could pass up on a chance to kill and make money. Whereas the village could be free and easy with their money.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:21 AM

Oh, and I forgot that someone and that damn escort service messed up what was going to be an epic three kill night.

For the record, each mob family had one hit they could conduct personally on a member of the other family. They had to be sure though - if they were wrong, they would be arrested and out of the game.

On the night that Saldana died, Tyketime had put a hit on Saldana who had been outed but not lynched. Saldana put a hit on Tyketime, who seemed clear to the other family to be the last Lupino, and if not, hey, Saldana wasn't going to last the day anyway. And then they had the regular hit man kill (on Mauboy I think).

So Saldana and Tyketime were going to go out and put hits on each other, both die, and then have a third kill from the hitman. But someone sent Cassie to Saldana, and so he ended up dying in bed rather than gunning down Tyketime. That would have been quite a different game there, with Cougarfreak the only wolf left.

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 09:22 AM

I still have no idea what service the Crooked Cop provided. As for the extra kill on Saldana that night, I called that hit. We Lupinos did have one special ability. We could target a member of the Vampiri family for an extra kill. But if we were wrong, and hit an innocent Resident instead, the wolf calling the hit would have been hauled off to jail instead. As the sole remaining Lupino, I figured I better use the kill ability while I could. It was sheer coincidence that the Crooked Cop service was a one & done appearance. Everyone assumed it was the Crooked Cop, so it was easy for me to go along with that.

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

On the night that Saldana died, Tyketime had put a hit on Saldana who had been outed but not lynched. Saldana put a hit on Tyketime, who seemed clear to the other family to be the last Lupino, and if not, hey, Saldana wasn't going to last the day anyway. And then they had the regular hit man kill (on Mauboy I think).

So Saldana and Tyketime were going to go out and put hits on each other, both die, and then have a third kill from the hitman. But someone sent Cassie to Saldana, and so he ended up dying in bed rather than gunning down Tyketime. That would have been quite a different game there, with Cougarfreak the only wolf left.

How dare you Saldana???

And thanks to whoever thought Saldana needed the company of Cassie for the evening.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:25 AM

The crooked cop did in fact do basically what people thought it might, but only for one night. It allowed you to make a wolf look clean, or a villager look dirty, to a scan on the same night it was purchased. The Vampiri used it on JAG, but Pass was the one scanned that night.

JAG · 02-22-2011, 09:26 AM

Tyke, I purposefully stated in the thread that villagers should majorly bid up the NK to ensure the last wolf would have to spend there.

Autumn, regarding saldana's statement, one of the things I feared early on was a wolf sacrifice for money, scanning an unlikely to be voted villager and claiming they were a wolf, while the wolf teammates bet on the scanner and scanee. They would've ruined one or two days of voting, ruined trust for future scanners, and made some decent cash out of it, albeit at the cost of one of their numbers. That's why I was glad but a little surprised to win the PI initially.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:30 AM

Yeah, JAG, I thought there were a number of routes to money. And the endgame showed that a wolf jumping in with a legit scan early would have gained some major karma to last them a while I think.

Also, the scans would have revealed the other family to them, which could be very powerful.

Unfortunately those first three days of betting put the wolves in a hole. in addition to winning no bets, nobody they killed had any money on them.

JAG · 02-22-2011, 09:35 AM

Lathum was oddly a star by offering himself as a sacrifice early on. We were able to glean a lot more info than we probably otherwise would have out of the first day of betting and voting.

Passacaglia · 02-22-2011, 09:48 AM

Oh, so who blew all their money buying the bodyguard on the first night?

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Lathum was oddly a star by offering himself as a sacrifice early on. We were able to glean a lot more info than we probably otherwise would have out of the first day of betting and voting.

While my road is paved with a few deceptions, there was no collective effort to bet on Lathum Day 1. I really did it thinking he was going to get the votes and I could win some money. But everyone kept coming back to that again and again...

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 09:59 AM

Yeah, I thought it was strange the village got hung up on the Lathum betters. It seemed natural for anyone in the game to bet Lathum since he had made such a target. But I guess it worked out.

Pass, Lathum bought the bodyguard night 1.

Chief Rum · 02-22-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

I hate to even tell Tyke this, but this is what the situation was before he made his post. He had Jackal down to kill. Chief was going to scan Jackal. It would have been you, him and Chief, and I think Chief was at least willing to vote you.

Chief, what would you have done, do you think, if it had come to that (without Tyke pretending to win the bodyguard and all)?

I would have re-examined everything closely, I know that, but I think I was definitely leaning toward tyketime being the good guy. His "reveal" was that good. Just a fantastic job on that, especially for someone new to our games.

But it would have been a very tough decision. I think in re-examining posts and vote counts and what not, my confidence in JAG being a villager (which had been high all game, only started to waver as we failed to get the last wolf) was probably going to re-assert itself.

In the end, I might have chosen JAG because, simply, I expected a strong vet player like JAG to be more likely to pull off being a wolf this long over a new player in tyketime doing his reveal.

I made a mistake the other day when I asked tyke for his numbers on his investment. I laid out the path for his response. I had already done the math and figured it out. So I should have tried to trip him up, instead of telling him what I had down. That had been my suspicion. That day, the highest winning bid was $7800 something for Crazy Legs, and tyketime said he bet "all of his money" and lost. My math had it possible that he was able to get $8000 that night. That would have been a lie that had caught him out.

But he planned his lie well and the iffyness of how the last night of the investment is handled allowed him to hide behind that (and I was dumb for offering up the possibility).

Great game by both tyke and JAG, as well as several others in this one.

I had a terrific time, Autumn, and thanks for running it.

Chief Rum · 02-22-2011, 10:10 AM

BTW, this game had oen of my most fun personal moments--the cluster*** posts and incredulity from all sides when my engineered lynch of PF came down. I just sat back and soaked it in, lol.

Nabbed over $4000 for that, too. Would have been more, but what the hell, ntndeacon for some reason had PF picked. I only picked PF because I didn't think anyone else would be on him.

Chief Rum · 02-22-2011, 10:11 AM

Oh, and I loved how that became "proof" of the tie mechanism up until the pioint I revealed. Good thought, but, no...

Oh yeah, and hoops, take that! I outlasted you.

Chief Rum · 02-22-2011, 10:11 AM

Oh yeah, and what was the tie mechanism, Autumn?

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I made a mistake the other day when I asked tyke for his numbers on his investment. I laid out the path for his response. I had already done the math and figured it out. So I should have tried to trip him up, instead of telling him what I had down. That had been my suspicion. That day, the highest winning bid was $7800 something for Crazy Legs, and tyketime said he bet "all of his money" and lost. My math had it possible that he was able to get $8000 that night. That would have been a lie that had caught him out.

Right CR! And that's a reason I had to overspend. I knew the winning bid had to be higher than the money I could reasonably explain away. I was going with the $6,061 amount as the max I could have, and therefore was outbid for Crazy Legs.

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I would have re-examined everything closely, I know that, but I think I was definitely leaning toward tyketime being the good guy. His "reveal" was that good. Just a fantastic job on that, especially for someone new to our games.

The pressure was really on for me to reveal my finances. And since I had not won a service, I had no way to explain the fact that I had less than my original $1,000. Thus "The Investor" was born. I probably spent close to an hour wordsmithing it to make sure it had the same flavor & tone as the other roles Autumn had created for the game.

PackerFanatic · 02-22-2011, 10:29 AM

I am disappointed I didn't get to stick around longer, but happy that the good guys won

I truthfully didn't follow along much after I lost, so it might have been somewhat brought up, but can someone explain how I died?

JAG · 02-22-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyketime

The pressure was really on for me to reveal my finances. And since I had not won a service, I had no way to explain the fact that I had less than my original $1,000. Thus "The Investor" was born. I probably spent close to an hour wordsmithing it to make sure it had the same flavor & tone as the other roles Autumn had created for the game.

If Autumn does a sequel, this should be one of the roles.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyketime

The pressure was really on for me to reveal my finances. And since I had not won a service, I had no way to explain the fact that I had less than my original $1,000. Thus "The Investor" was born. I probably spent close to an hour wordsmithing it to make sure it had the same flavor & tone as the other roles Autumn had created for the game.

You can see now why we have that rule - it's hard to disbelieve such a well done fake role that appears to come from me. It's much harder to do if you have to paraphrase it - it's not as convincing. I tried to give a neutral response to the "reveal" to not make it look like I was confirming it.

That was masterfully done. It wouldn't have worked as well if Hoops or someone had tried it, but combine that with you being new and I was shocked to see how fast the suspicion went off of you. The game was over before you did that. Amazing.

Unfortunately, Tyke, you'll now find that A) no one ever believes you again. And B) you get a lot of lynch votes from now on, lol.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Oh yeah, and what was the tie mechanism, Autumn?

The true tie breaker was the number of people who had bet on those tied. If that were equal it would then go to whoever had the earliest vote on them.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I am disappointed I didn't get to stick around longer, but happy that the good guys won

I truthfully didn't follow along much after I lost, so it might have been somewhat brought up, but can someone explain how I died?

Packer, Chief Rum's role basically had a duke power. He bet on you and then duked to you just to make money, basically.

Autumn · 02-22-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

If Autumn does a sequel, this should be one of the roles.

That would be funny.

I'm glad people enjoyed it, I would definitely consider a sequel, with some rule fixes. One of the wolves said in PM he was heading to Jersey after this, so ...

I was pondering during the game that I should have made it possible to bid on only one service a night, to keep a rich player from dominating the game, especially since some of the services allowed them to keep making money. Now i"m not so sure after seeing how the endgame went down. What do people think?

tyketime · 02-22-2011, 10:35 AM

Autumn: How did you figure out winning amounts on correct lynch bets? I never could determine the formula...

02-22-2011, 10:10 AM	#1639
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	BTW, this game had oen of my most fun personal moments--the cluster*** posts and incredulity from all sides when my engineered lynch of PF came down. I just sat back and soaked it in, lol. Nabbed over $4000 for that, too. Would have been more, but what the hell, ntndeacon for some reason had PF picked. I only picked PF because I didn't think anyone else would be on him. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

02-22-2011, 10:11 AM	#1640
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Oh, and I loved how that became "proof" of the tie mechanism up until the pioint I revealed. Good thought, but, no... Oh yeah, and hoops, take that! I outlasted you. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

02-22-2011, 10:11 AM	#1641
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Oh yeah, and what was the tie mechanism, Autumn? __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

02-22-2011, 05:53 AM	#1601
tyketime College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003	Well we can obviously go back & forth. I'm interested in what CR & Jackal have to say. They know your play much better than I do. If they don't think you could pull this off, they will lynch me. And then know they were played. As for my betting record, each vote is detailed here. I'm very comfortable with that. I guess you are also willing to believe I was the one and only wolf that had a special ability. I guess you are also reading more into the crooked cops description than I am. It says it can get you out of trouble, or someone else in it. No mention of an actual kill ability. Read the descriptions clearly. Autumn was very clever, and very specific, on the abilities for Knuckles & Crazy Legs. Why wouldn't he have spelled it out a little better for the crooked cop? I believe he was there one time only, and bestowed on you a one time only ability. And you held it until now. I just think you have conveniently twisted a few of the facts to make it appear differently. But much as I led discussion on math, and how exact it was, I 'm also specifically looking at the descriptions of the services. It's also convenient to spell out your finances now, when no one can dispute them. No services would allow us to confirm whether you are being truthful. Just another bit of misdirection... [I'll be in the office in an hour, and hopefully we'll have a good discussion, CR/Jackal weigh in, and they will know how today's final vote will go]

02-22-2011, 06:53 AM	#1602
The Jackal Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New Hampshire	I have a doctor's appointment this morning so I'm going to be out, and presumably dead by the time I get back. I can see the case for both parties at the moment. Honestly the only thing you have going for you in my eyes tyke is your reveal, because it does seem odd that there would be only one wolf role. However, it is not out of the realm of possibility, and it is also not so unbelievable that you could have faked it. Now, this is not cut and dry. It should be interesting to see what CR learns during the night. Though if he scans you as wolf, tyke, I doubt a defense of "the cop set you up" is going to get you off. If you want to prove JAG is a wolf you'll need to dig deeper, maybe find some holes in his story or the money.

02-22-2011, 07:02 AM	#1604
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	And this has continued to be a fun game reading along. Nice work to both the moderator and the players for making this the best "read along while dead" game I've seen in months, if not years.

02-22-2011, 08:10 AM	#1605
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	None of you can sleep this night, and even the temptations of Vegas don't interest you. There's so few of you left, those who were so close. And yet one of you, one of you is a mobster. Chief sends Mario out to investigate one of you, then calls him back, changing his mind, calls him back once more. The indecision is clear on his face. Mario finally shakes his head and takes off, eager to get his night's work done, one way or another. He comes back into the hotel lobby in the morning with a thick envelope. "You won't believe it," he tells Chief Rum. "This guy is dirty as they come." He starts to spill open the envelope but just then there is a gasp and someone turns up the TV in the corner. "Another murder today in Sin City. The body of Tyketime was found in his hotel room, riddled with bullets. Police have apprehended hitman "Crazy Legs" Louie in suspicion of the crime." Chief begins to look at JAG. JAG looks at The Jackal, time begins to slow as chair are pushed back and men give each other some space.

02-22-2011, 08:11 AM	#1606
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	But the TV continues blaring. "Most surprising is the police officials indicate that evidence on the scene suggests that Tyketime was a member of the Lupino family, a reputed organized crime syndicate. Evidence linking him to several deaths in the city this past week was collected. Officials are mystified."

02-22-2011, 08:12 AM	#1607
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	"Seen here is "Crazy Legs" Louie on his way to the jail cell. You can hear him calling out to the cameras. 'The guy was crazy, crazier than me. He asked me to do it, I swear. He paid me!'" Las Vegas is now free of mobsters. The residents of Vegas have won!

02-22-2011, 08:14 AM	#1608
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	MAJOR VICTORIES The Residents for ridding Vegas of the Mob MINOR VICTORIES The Lupino family for eliminating their archrivals, the Vampiri Chief Rum for outlasting his rival, the Gambler

02-22-2011, 08:19 AM	#1609
tyketime College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003	Obviously I was in a jam on the last day with no endgame in sight for me. Once i lost the PI bid, I knew I was done for. But I've grown to respect you guys to not play out the inevitable. So forgive me one last time for this unorthodox ending. You three deserved to stand tall. Congrats! Good game. Special kudos to Autumn for a fantastic theme for my first Werewolf game. The flavor of the roles was great, and the money mechanic was critical down the stretch. Thanks to all for a fun game. Vegas is certainly safer with all of the mafia scum run out of town.

02-22-2011, 08:19 AM	#1610
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Way to bring it home, village -- good job guys! And good game all, thanks Autumn!

02-22-2011, 08:23 AM	#1611
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Great game Autumn! Well done village!

02-22-2011, 08:26 AM	#1612
Zinto College Starter Join Date: Jan 2011	Once again awesome game Autumn. Good job villagers and nice job Tyke staying in it for so long.

02-22-2011, 08:26 AM	#1613
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Thanks guys. I have lots of debriefing to do, but let me say - Tyketime, you were much, much, much, much closer to winning than you thought. If you hadn't bothered pulling that thing on JAG you had at least a 50% shot.

02-22-2011, 08:34 AM	#1614
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I will also apologize to everyone for not putting up clearer rules to this game, especially knowing we had what, three brand new players and one second time player? I usually try to rehash the rules around quoting PMs and editing in every game, but didn't bother this time, to my chagrin. I was glad to see it end this way only because while I was enjoying Tyke's run I knew it was partly based on the trust his faked "quoted PM" drew. I apologize if anyone thinks I should have taken a different response to that situation. And let me add, that was a piece of work! I could tell Tyke slaved over it because it really did sound, even to me, like something I had written. I was floored.

02-22-2011, 08:46 AM	#1615
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Can we get everyone's bets and bids?

02-22-2011, 08:53 AM	#1616
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Theoretically you could ...

02-22-2011, 08:59 AM	#1617
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I want to commend our wolves, who not only had to deal with a lot of bad luck, but who included two guys who'd never played before and one on his second game! And then I want to commend the village for doing some amazing work with the resources you had. You guys were all over it.

02-22-2011, 09:03 AM	#1618
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	First, awesome game Autumn. Really well put together, I loved the unique feel of two sets of wolves and figuring out how to spend money, every day there were multiple interesting decisions to make and information to parse. Just a very well-designed game and a blast to play. Second, really well done Tyke. Even when I knew you were a wolf, I still thought you actually had the role you claimed. I think in your place at the end there, the best way to handle it would have been to come out and claim you didn't win your bid on Crazy Legs, then hope to kill Jackal or I and hope CR scans the person you killed. That was certainly a unique ending though, I love Autum's write-up of Crazy Legs going to jail. Third, FYI Chief, when you were asking me to confirm how much I sent you...when you PM'ed me, you told me the amount that was sent. I didnt want to disuade you from the correct decision that I was a villager though. Lastly, unless I think of other stuff, woohoo village.

02-22-2011, 09:04 AM	#1619
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I'm glad to answer any questions. But here's a couple of highlights to me: The bet was won by only a total of four people in the first three days. That surprised me and quickly concentrated wealth in only a few individuals. Unfortunately for the wolves, none of them were part of those four. Day three there were six people on the block receiving votes. Unbeknown to anyone but me, five of them were wolves. The other was Hoopsguy ;-) That was totally crazy. I thought having so many brand new players as wolves would keep them under the radar, but somehow you guys unearthed them that quickly. That put them in a very tight spot.

02-22-2011, 09:08 AM	#1621
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Thinking about it, Tyke never had a name for his role, did he? I should've noticed that. Oh, one other thing I thought of, I hesitated to cone out with the info CR was cleared initially because I knew he had a role (Casino Owner) that sounded like it could make some money for us and I didn't want to paint a bullseye on his back that early. It made me a lot more inclined to trust hoops' reveal but I didn't want to come out too strongly on his side for fear of giving something away about Chief.

02-22-2011, 09:09 AM	#1622
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Yeah, JAG, I think it was interesting - and instrumental - that you didn't reveal his role. I had figured that would get Chief lynched at some point, given how the village usually works.

02-22-2011, 09:13 AM	#1624
tyketime College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003	With Crimson & Daddy being lynched on Days 3&4, I really was on my own the entire rest of the game. I truly was in uncharted territory. I just didn't think there was any reason for CR to scan anyone but me. I guess I never considered the possibility that he might scan either JAG/Jackal. I knew my last "play" was absurd, but I was obviously scrambling at that point. My mistake was not doing a better job trying to track the overall money situation. I had a lot of money down the stretch. And I knew I had to win Crazy Legs every night in order to keep this going. I'm sure I overspent two nights ago (I think I spent close to 13,000 between Crazy & the PI). So on the last night, I knew I had to bid enough to win the NK again. I didn't have enough for Mario. But it turns out I was only a few hundred short for Mario. That tells me I may have actually had enough to win them both again, and go for the win. So I think that was my critical mistake.

02-22-2011, 09:18 AM	#1627
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Yeah, Tyke, if you could have seen the money totals you could have easily gone the rest of the game winning both. The other night tyke robbed NTN, who had a boatload of money, killed someone with decent money (I forget who) and I think won the bet. At that point he had $15,000, and no one else had more than $2,000. Of course he didn't know that, so he did over spend. Pass, I'm willing to give out any info like that, it's just I don't want to try to paste in a whole spreadsheet. In general the wolves almost (never ever?) never bid on the seer or the bodyguard. They pretty much spent all their money on night kills. I had thought they would try for the seer as well, but as Saldana pointed out to me I think without an assured revenue stream they didn't feel they could pass up on a chance to kill and make money. Whereas the village could be free and easy with their money.

02-22-2011, 09:21 AM	#1628
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Oh, and I forgot that someone and that damn escort service messed up what was going to be an epic three kill night. For the record, each mob family had one hit they could conduct personally on a member of the other family. They had to be sure though - if they were wrong, they would be arrested and out of the game. On the night that Saldana died, Tyketime had put a hit on Saldana who had been outed but not lynched. Saldana put a hit on Tyketime, who seemed clear to the other family to be the last Lupino, and if not, hey, Saldana wasn't going to last the day anyway. And then they had the regular hit man kill (on Mauboy I think). So Saldana and Tyketime were going to go out and put hits on each other, both die, and then have a third kill from the hitman. But someone sent Cassie to Saldana, and so he ended up dying in bed rather than gunning down Tyketime. That would have been quite a different game there, with Cougarfreak the only wolf left.

02-22-2011, 09:22 AM	#1629
tyketime College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003	I still have no idea what service the Crooked Cop provided. As for the extra kill on Saldana that night, I called that hit. We Lupinos did have one special ability. We could target a member of the Vampiri family for an extra kill. But if we were wrong, and hit an innocent Resident instead, the wolf calling the hit would have been hauled off to jail instead. As the sole remaining Lupino, I figured I better use the kill ability while I could. It was sheer coincidence that the Crooked Cop service was a one & done appearance. Everyone assumed it was the Crooked Cop, so it was easy for me to go along with that.

02-22-2011, 09:25 AM	#1631
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	The crooked cop did in fact do basically what people thought it might, but only for one night. It allowed you to make a wolf look clean, or a villager look dirty, to a scan on the same night it was purchased. The Vampiri used it on JAG, but Pass was the one scanned that night.

02-22-2011, 09:26 AM	#1632
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Tyke, I purposefully stated in the thread that villagers should majorly bid up the NK to ensure the last wolf would have to spend there. Autumn, regarding saldana's statement, one of the things I feared early on was a wolf sacrifice for money, scanning an unlikely to be voted villager and claiming they were a wolf, while the wolf teammates bet on the scanner and scanee. They would've ruined one or two days of voting, ruined trust for future scanners, and made some decent cash out of it, albeit at the cost of one of their numbers. That's why I was glad but a little surprised to win the PI initially.

02-22-2011, 09:30 AM	#1633
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Yeah, JAG, I thought there were a number of routes to money. And the endgame showed that a wolf jumping in with a legit scan early would have gained some major karma to last them a while I think. Also, the scans would have revealed the other family to them, which could be very powerful. Unfortunately those first three days of betting put the wolves in a hole. in addition to winning no bets, nobody they killed had any money on them.

02-22-2011, 09:35 AM	#1634
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Lathum was oddly a star by offering himself as a sacrifice early on. We were able to glean a lot more info than we probably otherwise would have out of the first day of betting and voting.

02-22-2011, 09:48 AM	#1635
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Oh, so who blew all their money buying the bodyguard on the first night?

02-22-2011, 09:59 AM	#1637
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	Yeah, I thought it was strange the village got hung up on the Lathum betters. It seemed natural for anyone in the game to bet Lathum since he had made such a target. But I guess it worked out. Pass, Lathum bought the bodyguard night 1.