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Old 05-09-2017, 01:47 PM   #251
The Jackal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telle View Post
He means that if you're a villager you should already know if villagers get to PM and not need to be pondering it "out loud" in the game.

Aren't we all (except the wolves) technically villagers? That's what I mean here, usually there aren't PM rights for people beyond the wolves unless there's lover roles or multiple wolf teams like we've seen in some games. If we've got some standard villager roles getting to be on a team and getting to PM, that seems to me to be a bonus for our overall win conditions. Can't speak to the random individual win conditions but also don't care about those in the grand scheme of things

I don't see the harm in that being "pondered out loud", nor I guess is it super relevant at this point how many wolves there are, especially since we don't know whether conversions are a possibility, though there's so much unknown that I'd expect it is under certain conditions
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:49 PM   #252
Julio Riddols
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Could there be 3 teams or would that be too much? We have a brown, a green and a red name in post 3. Surely there is a reason for that.

Maybe there is a small batch of characters that have motives completely ulterior to sussing out wolves or killing off villagers.

I think we really have to consider that we only truly know ourselves and what we can do, and we know that JAG is Bud Bundy and he may have allegiance to any of potentially 3 teams.

I'm eager to hear font's explanation for her odd vote habits which have at this point resulted in no vote for day 1. Still some other people yet to check in today as well, I'd like their take on the current state of affairs as well.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:50 PM   #253
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Unless I'm misunderstanding and the "villager" led Burns team is something the village needs to deal with too? I suppose there aren't even win conditions listed in the rules now that I read back again
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:51 PM   #254
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Do we know if we win if the wolf team is defeated? Has that been covered previously that I've missed?
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:52 PM   #255
Julio Riddols
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Maybe the ultimate goal is to escape this facility, heh.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:55 PM   #256
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The rules do say two people are captains, so I think it's safe to assume two teams FWIW
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:57 PM   #257
Julio Riddols
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Ah yeah, two team captains. Ok then.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:57 PM   #258
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I think if I was wolf captain my first pick would be Skippy - not only going to scan as villager but breaks the seer scans for the rest of the game.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet my strategy would be to draft that person and then try to draw a scan on day 1
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:59 PM   #259
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I'd also probably go after Nessman, to try and find people with particular skills? A lot of the roles are pretty vague but those are the two that stand out to me
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:00 PM   #260
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Following that logic, I feel like one person has already said something designed to attract subtle attention, so let's do this for now
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:01 PM   #261
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:05 PM   #262
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Russell is also an obvious high pick for both teams. Getting solidly into "what if" now but in strategy above Skippy and Russell would be a good combo - try to draw the scan on day 1 with a protect in the back pocket
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:06 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by The Jackal View Post
Aren't we all (except the wolves) technically villagers? That's what I mean here, usually there aren't PM rights for people beyond the wolves unless there's lover roles or multiple wolf teams like we've seen in some games. If we've got some standard villager roles getting to be on a team and getting to PM, that seems to me to be a bonus for our overall win conditions. Can't speak to the random individual win conditions but also don't care about those in the grand scheme of things

I don't see the harm in that being "pondered out loud", nor I guess is it super relevant at this point how many wolves there are, especially since we don't know whether conversions are a possibility, though there's so much unknown that I'd expect it is under certain conditions

Let's follow that pondered out loud to its logical conclusion.

It is possible we could have lovers here? Sure! But what roles? This is a flavor-first game, right? It's not like Dallas and Bud are getting a little kinky behind the scenes, because they are from different shows. In fact, I don't know that any of these characters are from the same show either. And how could you plan to have lovers for the village if people that are lovers could be drafted by the wolves? That makes no sense. So the only way a lovers-esque role that would work for the village is a post-draft one that connected someone. But who would that make sense for? Jeffrey Murdock's "loyalty?" I feel like that 's a reach. At best, I think any musings on villagers with PMs is just chipping at a wall made of adamantium with a toothbrush, barring some sort of something that we see to suggest it.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:07 PM   #264
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As of right now, I still don't see a stronger alternative to fontisian.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:07 PM   #265
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:08 PM   #266
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I like font as a possible cultist. I just don't see the wolf captain bring that loud and bold on day 0, and nobody else knew their alignment at that point
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:08 PM   #267
Julio Riddols
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What trips me out is that almost every character has a built in flaw seemingly. They might get distracted, or they might not see things right, etc. We'll hardly be able to trust what we learn from using our skills.

And there are 15 roles up there but only 13 players, so who knows which 2 roles don't exist. I think the only guaranteed roles are the 3 colored roles and Bud Bundy at this point.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:10 PM   #268
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Did anyone know their alignment during day 0?
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:12 PM   #269
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Ok, the captains apparently.

Sorry, my reading comprehension seems like it has gone kinda shitty. I keep having to go back and re-read the first few posts.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:18 PM   #270
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I like font as a possible cultist. I just don't see the wolf captain bring that loud and bold on day 0, and nobody else knew their alignment at that point

It only occurred to me right now that yes, the captains knew their allegiance day 0. I've been thinking that day zero was useless, but of course (and I'm sure you've all been thinking it already) we might be able to gain some information on what a captain would do. Will probably only be useful later in the game when we've narrowed things down.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:20 PM   #271
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Unless I'm misunderstanding and the "villager" led Burns team is something the village needs to deal with too? I suppose there aren't even win conditions listed in the rules now that I read back again

The villagers *are* the Burns-led team. You seem to be suggesting some sort of inner circle? My understanding is that other than the colored roles, every player could have been on either team, and that every player was either drafted by the wolves or by the villagers. Are you suggesting that some subset of villagers could PM? Because I believe Burns "selected" all of the villagers.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:22 PM   #272
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This makes me wonder if the people who broke the tie late are people that need to be considered.. Or the person the vote was moved off of. I can't think for the life of me what the motive for that would have been if nobody was going to die on night zero anyway.

I feel like a tie would have potentially revealed 2 roles, and one of those roles was protected.. Possibly by one of the captains.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:25 PM   #273
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This makes me wonder if the people who broke the tie late are people that need to be considered.. Or the person the vote was moved off of. I can't think for the life of me what the motive for that would have been if nobody was going to die on night zero anyway.

I feel like a tie would have potentially revealed 2 roles, and one of those roles was protected.. Possibly by one of the captains.

But at that point no one knew any roles but their own, correct? So definitely a captain about to get revealed might make a move, but they couldn't coordinate with anyone else.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:31 PM   #274
Julio Riddols
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I wonder. I guess the captains probably drafted based on character names and not our usernames.

I think maybe I'm just slightly bitter because I think a tie would have been worthwhile even if the mechanism for a tie was different on day 0 than it will be from here on out, heh.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:33 PM   #275
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My thought was that if a captain had a specific role in mind that they wanted to keep out of the spotlight, that that captain could have made a move to keep the role from being revealed, as some of these roles are pretty descriptive and the knowledge of who has one of the more powerful roles would have been a big deal for one team or the other.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:39 PM   #276
Julio Riddols
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Times like this I wish I was a more experienced player. I gotta defer to the more experienced of you and try to get a deeper understanding of motives and reasoning that way. I'll check back in later and try to absorb what I can.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:47 PM   #277
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The villagers *are* the Burns-led team. You seem to be suggesting some sort of inner circle? My understanding is that other than the colored roles, every player could have been on either team, and that every player was either drafted by the wolves or by the villagers. Are you suggesting that some subset of villagers could PM? Because I believe Burns "selected" all of the villagers.

Are you suggesting that the people not selected on those two teams are -not- villagers (aside from maybe the neutral)? I think this is becoming a semantics discussion.

Wolves = bad
Villagers = good

But are we saying people not on Burns' team are not "villagers" in this sense? Does Burns team actually have our best interests at heart? My original feeling on that 2nd question was that yes, it's just a team of villagers that's actually able to PM and that's good for the village overall, but now I don't know
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:49 PM   #278
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My thought was that if a captain had a specific role in mind that they wanted to keep out of the spotlight, that that captain could have made a move to keep the role from being revealed, as some of these roles are pretty descriptive and the knowledge of who has one of the more powerful roles would have been a big deal for one team or the other.

Yeah, if they knew something about usernames, I could see that. But I think not knowing roles, they couldn't infer anything from the day zero movement. Unless the choices they made in the draft suggested to them a tie would either be good or bad for their team.
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:50 PM   #279
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Let's follow that pondered out loud to its logical conclusion.

It is possible we could have lovers here? Sure! But what roles? This is a flavor-first game, right? It's not like Dallas and Bud are getting a little kinky behind the scenes, because they are from different shows. In fact, I don't know that any of these characters are from the same show either. And how could you plan to have lovers for the village if people that are lovers could be drafted by the wolves? That makes no sense. So the only way a lovers-esque role that would work for the village is a post-draft one that connected someone. But who would that make sense for? Jeffrey Murdock's "loyalty?" I feel like that 's a reach. At best, I think any musings on villagers with PMs is just chipping at a wall made of adamantium with a toothbrush, barring some sort of something that we see to suggest it.

Either I confused myself with semantics or I'm on some different page - are we considering the Burns led team to be essentially another team that the rest of us need to eliminate in addition to the wolves? Maybe it was the green coloring, but it seemed to me this is a "good guy" team, why is it weird to suggest they are able to PM?
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:50 PM   #280
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If I'm being obtuse please let me know, maybe I need another red eye haha
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:59 PM   #281
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Either I confused myself with semantics or I'm on some different page - are we considering the Burns led team to be essentially another team that the rest of us need to eliminate in addition to the wolves? Maybe it was the green coloring, but it seemed to me this is a "good guy" team, why is it weird to suggest they are able to PM?

Because by suggesting so you're suggesting that you're not on the good team?
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:59 PM   #282
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EagleFan - Can you elaborate at all on Klink's power? "The first vote against him on any day will result in him learning the role of the player who voted against him." Does that mean the first of ANY vote? Or the first vote that's still counted at the end of the game (thus not unvoted)?

I clearly didn't anticipate the vote everyone play.

Today will be the first vote. From here forward it will be the first official end of the day vote.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:04 PM   #283
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Votes as of post 282

The Jackal 2 - Autumn (244), bhlloy (261)
britrock88 1 - JAG (206)
Autumn 1 - Julio Riddols (232)
Telle 1 - britrock88 (238)
fontisian 1 - Abe Sargent (265)
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:28 PM   #284
Telle
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Aren't we all (except the wolves) technically villagers? That's what I mean here, usually there aren't PM rights for people beyond the wolves unless there's lover roles or multiple wolf teams like we've seen in some games. If we've got some standard villager roles getting to be on a team and getting to PM, that seems to me to be a bonus for our overall win conditions. Can't speak to the random individual win conditions but also don't care about those in the grand scheme of things

I don't see the harm in that being "pondered out loud", nor I guess is it super relevant at this point how many wolves there are, especially since we don't know whether conversions are a possibility, though there's so much unknown that I'd expect it is under certain conditions

Well if we have a wolf team and a village team (plus a neutral individual I guess, if that role isn't one of the two not in the game?) then everybody are pretty much either wolves or villagers. Thus if you don't know if the villagers can PM, then you're not a villager.. 'cause you should know if you can PM or not, right? Unless you were specifically talking about some subset of the villagers, which may be what you've been trying to say in later posts? I actually got somewhat confused..
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:31 PM   #285
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Votes as of post 282

The Jackal 2 - Autumn (244), bhlloy (261)
britrock88 1 - JAG (206)
Autumn 1 - Julio Riddols (232)
Telle 1 - britrock88 (238)
fontisian 1 - Abe Sargent (265)

Yet to vote: cheekimonk, tarcone, The Jackal, Chief Rum, Telle, mauchow
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:38 PM   #286
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I clearly didn't anticipate the vote everyone play.

Today will be the first vote. From here forward it will be the first official end of the day vote.

EF, no repeats might make more sense. A player who's willing to park their vote can still break this mechanic.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:40 PM   #287
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My thought was that if a captain had a specific role in mind that they wanted to keep out of the spotlight, that that captain could have made a move to keep the role from being revealed, as some of these roles are pretty descriptive and the knowledge of who has one of the more powerful roles would have been a big deal for one team or the other.

Lemme jump in--the teams were drafted overnight, as far as I can tell. And neither captain would have knowledge of players or their roles before the draft (with Natalie becoming aware afterward--dunno about Burns).
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:42 PM   #288
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EagleFan - Can you elaborate at all on Klink's power? "The first vote against him on any day will result in him learning the role of the player who voted against him." Does that mean the first of ANY vote? Or the first vote that's still counted at the end of the game (thus not unvoted)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhlloy View Post
I like font as a possible cultist. I just don't see the wolf captain bring that loud and bold on day 0, and nobody else knew their alignment at that point

The more interesting question to me is what this might imply about Font's role. Her play doesn't strike me as unusual for her--she's a thoughtful and proactive villager, and an equally active/distracting wolf (relying on long-ago impressions here).

Anyway, her willingness to role-block Klink suggests that she doesn't mind having Klink--who may be likelier than the average role to be Bad--knowing her role. It could be that she's in a role with seemingly pedestrian power. It could be that she's seeking identification as a fellow Bad. I dunno.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:44 PM   #289
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I don't think the rules are really clear on exactly when the team leaders choose the roles they want on their teams. The draft is listed under "Day 0", but so is everyone learning their alignments which didn't happen until the night.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:44 PM   #290
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Well if we have a wolf team and a village team (plus a neutral individual I guess, if that role isn't one of the two not in the game?) then everybody are pretty much either wolves or villagers. Thus if you don't know if the villagers can PM, then you're not a villager.. 'cause you should know if you can PM or not, right? Unless you were specifically talking about some subset of the villagers, which may be what you've been trying to say in later posts? I actually got somewhat confused..

Focusing just on the first part of this, as I'm fairly confident we'll all be thinking about Jackal until lynch.

13 players in the game.
1 neutral, for my money.
We're looking at 9-3-1 as our likeliest distribution, I think. I could see a +/- of 1 depending on the relative power of the roles in play.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:45 PM   #291
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Unvote Telle
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:45 PM   #292
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Applying some pressure. Telle, I've taken my cursor off you, but grace us with a vote, would you?
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:48 PM   #293
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Applying some pressure. Telle, I've taken my cursor off you, but grace us with a vote, would you?

Yeah and I've only got about 15 minutes to figure out my vote.. I have plans most of the evening and can't guarantee that I'll have a chance to get online before 10pm EST. I hate these early votes!
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:50 PM   #294
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Roles

Not all roles may be in the game.


Larry Dallas - The consummate playboy, always looking to get lucky. He may choose someone each night to seduce, this will prevent that person from performing any actions.

Terri Alden - She's not helping people any more. This nurse has now become a mistress of pain... and death. While she seems mild mannered and sweet, below the surface lies a monster. Any night attack on her will result in the death of the person performing the attack. Be warned, she may think that an attempt to scan or help is an attempted attack. Any other targetting of her will result in the player not having their ability the next day/night.

Major Frank Burns - This ferret will try to tattle on anyone. Each night he may scan another player to find out if that player is up to no good. He wants to tattle on them but he knows that everyone is out to get him. Instead of tattling he may make a one time night attack of a player that he has previously scanned. Once using that attack he loses scan ability. Oh, and he is a little paranoid so his scans may not always be accurate.

Natalie Green - Tired of being the nice girl, always letting everyone run her over. That stops now.

Irwin "Skippy" Handelman - Always love-sick for anyone that looks his way. He has gotten over Mallory by latching on to anyone that looks his way. This means that anyone that looks his way cannot get rid of him. If he is scanned at night he will annoy the scanner so much that any subsequent scan by that player during the game will result in an opposite scan of what it would have been.

Colonel Wilhelm Klink - No one will pull the wool over his monocle again. He now rules with an iron fist. The first vote against him on any day will result in him learning the role of the player who voted against him.

Les Nessman - Always the newsman, he is looking for a scoop under ever rock. Les may follow one person each night to see what that person was up to. He may not always see it exactly right as he has never been quite right since that turkey incident.

Rosalind "Roz" Russell - Ready with a sarcastic remark at all times. Also the most loyal person you may find. She will lay it all on the line for whomever she aligns with. She may protect someone each night, only she will know the exact details of how that will work.

Vinton Harper - Not the brightest bulb in the box. His abilities are unknown, maybe even to him.

Potsie Weber - An outcast with a big heart. At least that is how he appears to everyone, the truth is much darker...

Samuel "Screech" Powers - The nerd of the group. Always the outcast. Always trying to fit in. May be a deviant but always a friendly one. Will try to date someone each night only to annoy them for the night. The problem is, he can be easily distracted and may stray from his original target because someone else smiled at him.

Bud Bundy - Grandmaster B to his friends. He will be the life of the party, in his own mind. Tries to fit in with the others but sticks to himself in reality. May develop abilities depending on his alignment.

Wayne Arnold - Always the bullying big brother. He will find someone to do his bidding.

Mel Sharples - Make no mistake, he is in charge.

Jeffrey Murdock - A very odd bird, yet loyal. He has many theories about life as we know it. Beware the giggle loop and the melty man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
My thoughts on the roles...


Larry Dallas - Typical role blocker. Probably not a high priority for wolves.

Terri Alden I'm presuming from the coloring is neutral, did EF say the neutral got to draft anyone? Could kill a wolf, so good to keep around if we can.

So Burns can scan but not reveal his scans, is that everyone's take? But can make a one-time kill. So we want to keep him alive long enough to find a wolf. Or a supposed one, since his scan isn't 100%

Natalie - I assume the night kill is her special move.

Skippy - Adds to the unreliability of scans, meaning we need to focus on other intelligence.

Klink - Might be a high target for both teams to draft.

Nessman - Not clear how much detail Les gets from following someone. Typically would just be that they had a night action. Again, an unreliable one, so not too much use.

Roz - Some type of bodyguard, high priority draft for either side really, but more likely villagers.

Harper - completely mystery. Probably not a wolf priority.

Potsie Weber seems worrisome, maybe a vigilante, with a one-time kill? Someone the wolves might try to draft.

Both Screech and Bud say "always trying to fit in", which seems important somehow. Another role blocker? But unreliable.

Not sure what Bud's writeup would mean. Unfortunately, since I was hoping we'd find a role we could use to confirm allegiance somehow.

Wayne Arnold - moves a vote I assume?

Mel Sharples - probably a duke role

Murdock - Again the phrase "loyal". Does this mean that we have a conversion mechanic at play?


If I had to guess what the wolves might have prioritized, I'd say Klink, Potsie, Mel and Wayne. In a small game controlling even one vote could be a game changer, as would an extra kill, and knowing roles would be very helpful for the wolves. Though thinking on the second level, captain might have mixed it up to throw us off the path. How many wolves do we think? Two or three? If there's a possibility of conversion, which I think is likely, probably just two.

Just putting these together for convenience's sake. Hoping to mull this over for a bit, but no time now.
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Old 05-09-2017, 03:55 PM   #295
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Yet to vote: cheekimonk, tarcone, The Jackal, Chief Rum, Telle, mauchow

Sorry.. left out fontisian too as someone yet to vote. I was looking for people with blanks in my spreadsheet, and didn't think about all the voting and then unvoting technically ending in an unvote.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:02 PM   #296
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Ok, I'm going with fontisian. Mostly because I don't want to bandwagon on The Jackal.

Have we speculated yet on whether or not fontisian might actually BE Klink? All that voting could just be a distraction. She can't vote for herself, so it wouldn't diminish her ability. But then there's still the question of would Klink be a villager or a wolf?

Well sorry to vote and run, but as I mentioned just previously I may not be around again before deadline.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:02 PM   #297
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vote fontisian
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:22 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Abe Sargent View Post
Autumn, fontisian, I was looking at the roles last night and trying to figure out, if I was Nat, who'd I'd draft, and I think there are two ways and two strategies to do it.

1). Go for the night-win. Draft two roles you think would really help, and then go for wins with the various decisions and such

2). Go for thread-play. Grab two roles you think have little value and won't be hunted much in thread. Then try to win here.


And I suppose #3, try to balance it.

If I were Natalie the head bad, I think I'd go the thread-play route and grad weaker roles, in order to push things around, but I could see folks doing the other as well, you know?
I would probably go for the night win strategy. I suppose it heavily depends on whether town will be punished for forcing a mass role claim.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:28 PM   #299
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Ok, I'm going with fontisian. Mostly because I don't want to bandwagon on The Jackal.

Have we speculated yet on whether or not fontisian might actually BE Klink? All that voting could just be a distraction. She can't vote for herself, so it wouldn't diminish her ability. But then there's still the question of would Klink be a villager or a wolf?

Well sorry to vote and run, but as I mentioned just previously I may not be around again before deadline.
Telle, if I was klink, why would I introduce the idea at all?

I was going to say that I don't like way Abe is pursuing my lynch, but considering that it started in Day 0, likely before he knew his alignment, it can't really be considered alignment indicative, which is frustrating.

If the town team leader recruited all of the town roles, then couldn't we just all claim our roles and have the town leader point out which ones he didn't recruit? Surely it can't be that easy, which means drafting must have worked differently.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:32 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Julio Riddols View Post
Could there be 3 teams or would that be too much? We have a brown, a green and a red name in post 3. Surely there is a reason for that.

Maybe there is a small batch of characters that have motives completely ulterior to sussing out wolves or killing off villagers.

I think we really have to consider that we only truly know ourselves and what we can do, and we know that JAG is Bud Bundy and he may have allegiance to any of potentially 3 teams.

I'm eager to hear font's explanation for her odd vote habits which have at this point resulted in no vote for day 1. Still some other people yet to check in today as well, I'd like their take on the current state of affairs as well.
I think Julio Riddols is probably town. The way he's thinking about my play without being accusatory or seeking out a mislynch seems way townier than other approaches.
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