Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Main Forums > FOF9, FOF8, and TCY Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-29-2018, 06:22 PM   #1
bdubbs
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Defensive Gameplanning Thoughts

So I've been trying to understand defensive game planning more the last few weeks as my NAFL team has been putting up some big numbers on offense but has simultaneously been one of the most porous defenses in my league.

I know most people just rex and forget it, and I usually do the same thing when there aren't glaring issues with my defense. In my case I just didn't feel like the personnel were THAT bad even though my defense doesn't have a ton of star power. I would say the average starter has about a 51 rating with 3 players 60 or better.

Anyway, the way I've approached my game plans until now is I've seen it as much easier to prepare for the run than the pass. This is just because there's no quick or easy way to tell if your opponent is throwing more to the outside or over the middle, but its really easy to tell how many times a team is running out of each formation. It's also pretty easy to tell if your opponent has been changing their offensive game plan week to week, and most people aren't.

There are times you can capitalize on this in obvious ways like noticing your opponent runs the ball 5 times a game out of the 104 and has yet to throw a pass out of it.

In my situation though I found I was consistently getting torched on the ground and through the air almost every game, so I decided to toughen up against the run with a lot of cover 1 / m2m and blitzes against the opponents favorite running formations (including the 113) and found myself getting torched just as bad or worse both on the ground and in the air.

So I decided to look at some of the top rushing defenses in the league thus far and check out the coverages they have been running week to week in the film room and I found that they are running a lot of cover 2, press 2, and some variation of cover 3.

That's not to say these teams aren't running cover 1 or press 1 at all, but interestingly enough at a glance these teams appear to be running more cover 1 and press 1 the weeks they play teams that are running more plays out of 2WR sets.

What I'm getting at is that I think I've personally been discounting the fact that cover 1 and press 1 are weak against multiple receiver formations (according to the help file) as it pertains to run defense against the 113 in particular.

So my new theory is maybe cover 2, 2 press, and cover 3 are actually better against the run vs a 113 formation specifically than other defenses. Considering most offenses run at least 2/3 of their plays out of this formation and you'd almost certainly rather be running one of those 3 defensive plays against the pass than cover 1, 1 press, or m2m that's a pretty nifty piece of info, if there's any truth to it whatsoever.

As far as the other aspects of game planning, double teams, safety in the box, spies, I try and stay away from them.

If you notice a team is funneling the ball to 1 really good receiver and you want to put a double on him, cool. In my anecdotal experience though I just don't see QB's throwing into double coverage often enough to see a big benefit here, especially considering sometimes that doubled receiver still breaks one for 40 yards.

The same goes for the safety in the box. If you know a team is going to only run the ball out of a certain formation and you want to being the safety down, go for it. But general knowledge of football makes me think you have to be more vulnerable to certain kinds of passes if you bring the safety down.

I'd only use a spy if I noticed a QB was running the ball a lot over an extended stretch and having a lot of success. In most cases I'd rather have the QB tuck and run and risk injury or a fumble than airing it out.

Also worth noting, creating custom defensive plans week to week can be a lot more quick and simple than it looks, assuming you can count on your opponent not to change their plan on offense. Most people only use about 5 formations, and even then 2-3 of them are likely going to make up the vast majority of the offense. So on the average week I'm really only concerned about setting the defensive plays I want in the formations my opponent uses, and the rest is basically filler and I just slot in cover 2 or cover 3.

I'm not trying to present any of this as fact or really anything close to it but I think that defensive game plans are an under utilized part of the game. For the most part it doesn't seem like rex does a bad job, but if you're like me and you don't like seeing random double 2nd, spy, and buzz plays in your plan doing it yourself isn't really the nightmare it appears to be at first


Last edited by bdubbs : 05-29-2018 at 06:25 PM.
bdubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 09:44 AM   #2
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
I will weigh in as I also think defensive gameplanning is critically misunderstood by many.

Regarding run defense, I have found that it is highly dependent on personnel. Crappy run defenders will lead to crappy run defense regardless of playing 1-deep or even buzzing the SS. Also understanding the gaps and how the distance gained is calculated by position type (the help file has good info on this). Having a weak NT or DT1 is a recipe for disaster and having good contain defenders can also help a good bit.

For passing D, by using Ctrl-F on game logs it is pretty easy to get a general idea of where they are passing out of each formation. One thing I like to do is have more specialists on D. So if they have a receiver who gets a lot of screen/flats/outs then I want my bump dude on him, the guy who runs deep routes should get my Man and preferably taller corner.

Especially on 3rd down for 3 WR sets it is usually worthwhile to jot down where the targets are going.

For Cover-1 and Press-1 which I have found to be dominant if you want incompletions (however of course you do eat some big plays via deep passes or YAC) the real key for me though is understanding the WLB and SS positions. If you look at the detailed game logs you see that these dudes first go to Man/Press instead of zone (assuming no blitz).

In one league I play in, a guy committed to Man2Man and Press1 and even his FS had big Press bars, he complemented this with a nice pass rush to minimize the threat of deep passing and did very well.

I think using the Spy, Buzz and Double features are all very worthwhile when someone isn't mixing things up properly. Spying leads to less scrambling, not just less successful scrambling and in general scrambling is very efficient.
Buzzing isn't as risky as you might think he just becomes a short zone LB in essence and is a way to mitigate a weak run D. Again, you are really choosing between having your SS in Man or a Short Zone with the added benefit of extra run defense.
Doubles have grown on me, mostly seeing the success that other guys have had using them. Good QBs are good QBs and they will avoid the double or beat it but the YAC should be less and at the least you are forcing them to use their secondary target more- getting the QB to throw a Flat on 3rd and 9 is a schematic win regardless of outcome.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2018, 01:10 PM   #3
bdubbs
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
This is some really great info. In my specific case I have a 34 defense with a NT of 95 run D and starting DE's with 68 and 71 run D ratings and 2 starting lbs with run D ratings over 90 so I feel like I should have a decent run D.

A couple of questions since you seem to have a better understanding of how the defense works than I do.

When you talk about understanding gaps and how distance is calculated by position type are you talking about the defensive philosophy section of the help file where it breaks down the different defenses and tells you which DL are 1 and 2 gap defenders? From what I've gathered from that section if a player is a 2 gap defender then the PD bar is more important than a 1 gap defender, but that's about all the insight I've gotten from it. If there's something else I'm missing here if you could elaborate or point me to the right spot in the help section that'd be much appreciated.

I'm assuming your matching up your defenders on specific receivers just based on the knowledge that lets say... the opposing slot receiver runs a lot of screen routes and the X runs deeper routes so you might play your best bump and run corner as your nickel CB and your taller M2M CB in the RCB slot for that week?

Just curious how do you feel about formation weaknesses? For example I mentioned I have a pretty solid group of run defenders, my DL all have the appropriate size for their positions. My front is a 34 eagle to my NT is a 1tch and my LDE is in the 4i so both should be 1 gap defenders so lack of PD shouldn't hurt them quite as much as other fronts, my RDE has good PD and decent run D but they were still giving up 155yds / game and 5.5 ypc until this most recent week where I played a team in full rebuild mode and snuffed out their offense. Until then I had been running a lot of cover 1 against the run in 113 so I can't help but assume the formation weakness has to play a role there.

I think my best bet is to move into more cover 2. I have 1 CB who is excellent in man, and only 1 other who can really hang in man, and my nickel CB who has been giving up so many catches is pretty bad in man (40) but can hang in zone with a 74, nobody in that group really has great bump and run skills which is why I usually don't play too much press, and my reserves are all kind of okay at everything but not great at anything.

Also just curious what are your thoughts on blitzing? From a 34 I've always just assumed you want to be bringing at least 1 blitzer every down so you have at least a 4 man rush, but I'm usually hesitant to bring more. Even with the pass rush choice set to generally in the game details screen I feel like my team blitzes CBs more often than I'd like and my extra rusher rarely disrupts a play despite my LBs having at least 1 good pass rush bar all around.

Its especially annoying not being able to choose a blitzer because I have an 83 ovr WLB with 90+ pass rush bars but I can't get him to blitz nearly as much as I'd like so I've been thinking about bringing 5 more often to give him more chances rushing the passer

Last edited by bdubbs : 05-31-2018 at 01:16 PM.
bdubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 07:18 AM   #4
Sharkn20
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdubbs View Post
This is some really great info. In my specific case I have a 34 defense with a NT of 95 run D and starting DE's with 68 and 71 run D ratings and 2 starting lbs with run D ratings over 90 so I feel like I should have a decent run D.

A couple of questions since you seem to have a better understanding of how the defense works than I do.

When you talk about understanding gaps and how distance is calculated by position type are you talking about the defensive philosophy section of the help file where it breaks down the different defenses and tells you which DL are 1 and 2 gap defenders? From what I've gathered from that section if a player is a 2 gap defender then the PD bar is more important than a 1 gap defender, but that's about all the insight I've gotten from it. If there's something else I'm missing here if you could elaborate or point me to the right spot in the help section that'd be much appreciated.

I'm assuming your matching up your defenders on specific receivers just based on the knowledge that lets say... the opposing slot receiver runs a lot of screen routes and the X runs deeper routes so you might play your best bump and run corner as your nickel CB and your taller M2M CB in the RCB slot for that week?

Just curious how do you feel about formation weaknesses? For example I mentioned I have a pretty solid group of run defenders, my DL all have the appropriate size for their positions. My front is a 34 eagle to my NT is a 1tch and my LDE is in the 4i so both should be 1 gap defenders so lack of PD shouldn't hurt them quite as much as other fronts, my RDE has good PD and decent run D but they were still giving up 155yds / game and 5.5 ypc until this most recent week where I played a team in full rebuild mode and snuffed out their offense. Until then I had been running a lot of cover 1 against the run in 113 so I can't help but assume the formation weakness has to play a role there.

I think my best bet is to move into more cover 2. I have 1 CB who is excellent in man, and only 1 other who can really hang in man, and my nickel CB who has been giving up so many catches is pretty bad in man (40) but can hang in zone with a 74, nobody in that group really has great bump and run skills which is why I usually don't play too much press, and my reserves are all kind of okay at everything but not great at anything.

Also just curious what are your thoughts on blitzing? From a 34 I've always just assumed you want to be bringing at least 1 blitzer every down so you have at least a 4 man rush, but I'm usually hesitant to bring more. Even with the pass rush choice set to generally in the game details screen I feel like my team blitzes CBs more often than I'd like and my extra rusher rarely disrupts a play despite my LBs having at least 1 good pass rush bar all around.

Its especially annoying not being able to choose a blitzer because I have an 83 ovr WLB with 90+ pass rush bars but I can't get him to blitz nearly as much as I'd like so I've been thinking about bringing 5 more often to give him more chances rushing the passer

I am popping in as I love the defensive aspect of the game. Talking about RD and 113 how good are ur CBs stopping the run? What about weights and sizes? In this version Weight and Size are powerful. If you play let's a 3-4 defense and your DEs are 270 LBs, it doesn't matter if they are 60 rated players, they will struggle

I siggest you to have a system in mind and Draft / Sign players that match the system. I have been able to have fairly good success with all my teams in MP with this premise. Think what you want to do, then do it, don't think about Ratings, think about Bars + Weight and Size.



If I have a shutdown CB I will generally use him to either blank the best opposite WR and double the 2nd. Or opposite, blank the 2nd and Double the best.
Sharkn20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 08:09 AM   #5
QuikSand
lolzcat
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkn20 View Post
In this version Weight and Size are powerful. If you play let's a 3-4 defense and your DEs are 270 LBs, it doesn't matter if they are 60 rated players, they will struggle

How confident are we that this is true?
QuikSand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 08:21 AM   #6
Hammer
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikSand View Post
How confident are we that this is true?

I am not seeing it. Check out the 3-4 DE Luongo in the CFL. 265 lbs ish and he played really well for me 40+ lbs under.

Quite a few guys don't change their gameplan all season. You can know exactly what is coming and plan accordingly and still not come out on top. It will help if you know what you are doing but not to a great extent. Depends if you can pigeon hole formations with a certain type of defense.

If people are pressing Rex I don't think defensive gameplans will help much at all.
Hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 11:50 AM   #7
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
Check the weights in the front 7 and CB defense, I have TRUE 34 Team with physical prototypes on the whole front 7 with 70-100 run defenders at multiple positions but we still get gashed sometimes on outside runs due to weak CB Run defense and many GMs play guys underweight on the DL or as 34 OLBS but I don't for ethical reasons and also because i think the run D is significantly affected.

Aside from what you have mentioned, the def philosophy also tells you which gaps they control- do a quick log of the big runs you are giving up and you will see who/where the problem is. Your ILBs in an EAGLE need to have PD as they have to cover multiple gaps as well as your OLBs in contain. Also the 34 EAGLE you will note has a lot of bodies on the strong side but in a nickel no one covers the LG or LT gaps. I do not know how those gaps are handled by the software but to be safe it would be best to have true studs in the nearest gaps and to have a strong Run Defending Nickel Back.

The more indepth info is in the help file regarding running gains for defense and offense, press F1, then search running and you can find it. LBs are pretty much variance, DL and LB gaps control overall run success and CB/Ss affect longer gains to oversimplify immensely.

You got my CB matchup thing correct.

See my notes above about the 34 Eagle and nickel run defense.

No defense is perfect an you are better off specializing in 1 or 2 coverages. So if you don't play press that is cool but have the personnel to play 2 or more Cover Ds taking into account their weaknesses (CB run defense) and yes screens and flats will eat you up sometimes, no scheme is perfect. You can save a lot of cap money by specializing your CBs for different situations.

I have found that by setting the "Blitz Best rusher" setting at normal, the WLB will blitz 60-70% of the time and that is your likely best option. The CBs are blitzing because you are rushing 2 and the 2nd guy is essentially random. I have heard from someone credible that who blitzes seems to be formation dependent as well but I don't have any data on that.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 11:53 AM   #8
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikSand View Post
How confident are we that this is true?

I wish it was true but see plenty of GMs playing loose with the sizes and still performing very well.

Albeit it is hard to grade run defense without going ot the plus/minus (god I hope this gets added to the player cards, even better if split for run/pass, in FOF9).

Personally, I try to follow the guidelines for fidelity reasons and while I wouldn't call it cheating I do find the practice exploitative.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 12:07 PM   #9
ezlee2
n00b
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushikawa View Post
I wish it was true but see plenty of GMs playing loose with the sizes and still performing very well.

Albeit it is hard to grade run defense without going ot the plus/minus (god I hope this gets added to the player cards, even better if split for run/pass, in FOF9).

Personally, I try to follow the guidelines for fidelity reasons and while I wouldn't call it cheating I do find the practice exploitative.

I hear what you're saying and I can appreciate the perspective, but I really think that a one size fits all approach is not reality in FOF. Take my team in APFL and the way I have moved guys all over the front D7 and have had excellent results. As I said on that forum I'm having a blast getting creative with these guys and finding small ways to get adequate PT for an overcrowded bunch. I feel dirty saying this, but it kind of reminds me of how the Patriots move guys around.

Just my .2
ezlee2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 12:13 PM   #10
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
Was thinking of you a bit with my post. I will likely run the numbers in the offseason (or hopefully pre-Conference Championship) to see if those undersized DEs and Edge LBs do hold up against the run. Will be happy to share the results with the community (should have close 100+ runs against your front 7 if I take the last 2 years).
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 12:29 PM   #11
ezlee2
n00b
 
Join Date: May 2006
I'd be very interested to see the results. Keep in mind that I didn't have the same personnel my first year with that team. I was talking to WilleB about how much fun I've had with my defense in that league. This might be a new trend for me because I've enjoyed it so much.
ezlee2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 03:18 PM   #12
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
In our league my D is pretty bland but I have a specialist-driven D in another league and I agree it is a ton of fun as well as makes a big difference in outcomes with half of the time investment that truly gameplanning O does.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 03:48 PM   #13
Hammer
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushikawa View Post
No defense is perfect an you are better off specializing in 1 or 2 coverages. So if you don't play press that is cool but have the personnel to play 2 or more Cover Ds taking into account their weaknesses (CB run defense) and yes screens and flats will eat you up sometimes, no scheme is perfect. You can save a lot of cap money by specializing your CBs for different situations.

Yes, I always thought it was an intelligent way to play. In the RZB I play primarily Cover 1 and Cover 2. I have 3 CBs all rated around 60, but their M2M ratings are 94, 96 and 83.

Despite having an extremely strong team overall - meaning favourable down and distances for the defense, not one of these guys has notched up more than 12 passes defended in a season. My pass defense has been very average, we have been successful due to our offense. In FOF7 I always had great defenses, but in FOF8 smart gameplan input and/or doing a lot of homework seems to yield much less results wise.

All my efforts on defense really seems to be giving me no advantage whatsoever. On paper it seems smart, but it seems the game is so geared towards being a GM based off season game now that we have very little rope to make much of a difference with defensive gameplans.

The defense I did have that played exceptionally well in the CFL was really just a mixed bag of players thrown together and just left to play with little thought for what coverage I used. Plenty of big red run defense bars and good pass rushers got the job done despite largely pathetic guys in the secondary.

I have been saying this for months now, but I think this version is a bit of an illusion. Players look at it and are in awe of the complexity. But actually underneath all of that I don't think it is what most people think it is, particularly with defense. It could be that was the intention, it is a Front Office game after all. But there is a lot of room for people to get sucked in to put real effort in for very little reward. Maybe that is how it has to be, otherwise the try hards would dominate.
Hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 10:10 PM   #14
bdubbs
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushikawa View Post
I have found that by setting the "Blitz Best rusher" setting at normal, the WLB will blitz 60-70% of the time and that is your likely best option. The CBs are blitzing because you are rushing 2 and the 2nd guy is essentially random. I have heard from someone credible that who blitzes seems to be formation dependent as well but I don't have any data on that.

Well that was easy enough to figure out. I'm not getting as many blitzes as I like out of my WLB because he keeps subbing in at DE for extended periods of time and there's nothing I can really do about it.
bdubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2018, 11:45 PM   #15
bdubbs
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
All my efforts on defense really seems to be giving me no advantage whatsoever. On paper it seems smart, but it seems the game is so geared towards being a GM based off season game now that we have very little rope to make much of a difference with defensive gameplans.

I have been saying this for months now, but I think this version is a bit of an illusion. Players look at it and are in awe of the complexity. But actually underneath all of that I don't think it is what most people think it is, particularly with defense. It could be that was the intention, it is a Front Office game after all. But there is a lot of room for people to get sucked in to put real effort in for very little reward. Maybe that is how it has to be, otherwise the try hards would dominate.

I have to agree to some extent that I haven't felt able to really influence my defense's success enough through game plans. In my case though I hadn't really tried all that hard until recently and finding myself in a position where my defense is becoming a big liability for me and my roster is set for the season.

Then again even if we aren't feeling a huge level of control there's something to be said for playing to your players strengths when it comes to man vs zone, seeing opportunities to make a smart double team, and bringing the right amount of pass rush.
bdubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 03:19 AM   #16
Hammer
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
I guess it comes down to expectations of influence. I do have high expectations. Pretty convinced the time I put in has diminishing returns though.

Not saying this is a negative. It needs to be this way really. I only play in 1 league, so I could potentially out homework everyone otherwise.
Hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2018, 06:27 PM   #17
bdubbs
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Well balance is a tricky thing. After all I don't think any of us would endorse a system where huge differences in roster strength could be regularly overcome through game plans. Personally even if the game isn't anywhere near a perfect simulation I like the balance and the unpredictability of the game
bdubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 03:24 AM   #18
Hammer
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
I agree. I think a little nudge up on the impact of coverage would be a good thing, although perhaps others would feel differently.

I have always been extremely impressed with the luck modifier in this game. Perfect I think. Anyone can beat anyone in a one off game, yet the cream rises over the long haul. Just right to keep it interesting.
Hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 01:40 PM   #19
Sharkn20
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikSand View Post
How confident are we that this is true?

Check + / - plays in game logs.The truth is there. The star is going to be a star no matter what, but can ve HOF material or a Solid #1 option in the position depending on size / height parameters.
Sharkn20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2018, 02:16 PM   #20
Sharkn20
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
I agree. I think a little nudge up on the impact of coverage would be a good thing, although perhaps others would feel differently.

I have always been extremely impressed with the luck modifier in this game. Perfect I think. Anyone can beat anyone in a one off game, yet the cream rises over the long haul. Just right to keep it interesting.

+1
Sharkn20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 07:31 PM   #21
C-Bailey
n00b
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
So instead of starting another thread i thought i'd ask my question is this one in hopes of getting some thoughts and input. I have a CB on my team who is rated 90 in man to man coverage, 6" - 206 with 4.4 speed. So in my recent game sim i played a lot of Cover 1, adjusted the depth chart so that he lined up on the other team's best WR which was their SE, and then clicked the "follow best WR" box in the gameplan. So i check the box score and look at my team's Pass Defense statistics and it says he only had 1 pass caught against him. Cool. I'm thinking my plan worked. But not so fast my friend. I then check the other teams Pass Catching Statistics and it said that the Split End caught 9 passes on 9 targets for 105 yards. Ummm ok. So then i check the Game Log. From going through it he caught about 5 passes against Cover-3 and the rest against Cover 1 and Cover-2. So my first question is even though Cover-2 in this game has the outside CB's in Man do they pass off to the LB's in zone if their WR goes over the middle? Secondly, if the WR makes a catch in tight man to man coverage is that somehow NOT counted as a pass caught against him? Lastly, do these defensive setting not really work as intended?
C-Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 08:54 PM   #22
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
Very good question...I wonder myself as I do a lot of the same. A few thoughts:

"Best" is not defined ( I think it is by overall, as opposed to doubling which goes by routerunning), I would just stick to manually setting him opposite the WR you want. On this note make sure the SE is lining up at SE and not elsewhere using the logs.

Perhaps the caught against is applied to the relevant zone cover guy.

Finally, I am starting to look at the plus minus more. Maybe his coverage was good versus the catches but it was complete anyway i.e. perfect throw or the zone defender messed up.

Hope to hear back from you on this and I can share some of my own data and process as well.

Can you effectively matchup or exploit matchips is prolly my top question about FOF8 game planning.

Last edited by Ushikawa : 12-20-2018 at 09:02 PM.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 10:44 PM   #23
C-Bailey
n00b
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushikawa View Post
Very good question...I wonder myself as I do a lot of the same. A few thoughts:

"Best" is not defined ( I think it is by overall, as opposed to doubling which goes by routerunning), I would just stick to manually setting him opposite the WR you want. On this note make sure the SE is lining up at SE and not elsewhere using the logs.

Perhaps the caught against is applied to the relevant zone cover guy.

Finally, I am starting to look at the plus minus more. Maybe his coverage was good versus the catches but it was complete anyway i.e. perfect throw or the zone defender messed up.

Hope to hear back from you on this and I can share some of my own data and process as well.

Can you effectively matchup or exploit matchips is prolly my top question about FOF8 game planning.

Well i took "best" to mean by overall which i believe is what the help file says so i used the scouted overall as a guide to the way i set things up. As far as the catch being applied to the zone cover guy that i can understand but as i stated before from going through the log that i counted about 4-5 to five plays where my defensive call was Man Coverage and this particular WR caught the ball yet the box score only charged my CB with one catch against all game. My problem is not with the resulting stat line from this opposing WR but rather if my top guy was supposed to be on him anytime man coverage was called no matter where he's lined up (follow top WR checked) then my CB should have been charged with more catches against him IF the mechanic is working as it should. But digging through this log has seemed to make me believe this "strategy" is cosmetic at best.
C-Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 05:09 AM   #24
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
I think it is just as likely that the assignment of blame (like with sacks) is essentially a weighted disgribution based in position and bars. INTs also seem to be this way.

Stick with plus minus.

I personally feel like the matchup is happening in the engine but really I can't prove it.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2019, 09:10 AM   #25
Mike7273
n00b
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushikawa View Post

I have found that by setting the "Blitz Best rusher" setting at normal, the WLB will blitz 60-70% of the time and that is your likely best option. The CBs are blitzing because you are rushing 2 and the 2nd guy is essentially random. I have heard from someone credible that who blitzes seems to be formation dependent as well but I don't have any data on that.


How do you do this? I see the 'Set Blitzing Plan' screen, but no Blitz Best Rusher.
Mike7273 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2019, 09:15 AM   #26
Mike7273
n00b
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdubbs View Post
Well that was easy enough to figure out. I'm not getting as many blitzes as I like out of my WLB because he keeps subbing in at DE for extended periods of time and there's nothing I can really do about it.

Does 'Game Plan Details' and 'Emphasize Exact Position Match in Defensive Depth Chart' effect that?
Mike7273 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2019, 11:30 AM   #27
Sharkn20
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike7273 View Post
How do you do this? I see the 'Set Blitzing Plan' screen, but no Blitz Best Rusher.

That screen no longer exists, now u have the set blitzing screen
Sharkn20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2019, 12:15 AM   #28
bdubbs
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike7273 View Post
How do you do this? I see the 'Set Blitzing Plan' screen, but no Blitz Best Rusher.

This thread was started before the update that added the blitzing plans.
bdubbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 01:18 PM   #29
TeamBills59
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
I don't know how many people realize this but according to the help file a double team isn't really a double team. The regular defender does a bump and run at the line of scrimage and the safety steps behind the receiver to make sure he doesn't break off deep. Both defenders aren't running with the receiver. I have tried putting my great bump and run cb on double teams with formations that don't run bump and run for the cbs (this info can be found via game log) and the results are actually worse. I haven't tested it too much though.

Blitzing - If I don't have good blitzers and run 43 I don't see the point in ever blitzing as long as your d line can create some pressure. If those players aren't good at blitzing you're better off using them for other stuff.



I don't see an advantage in knowing via game logs who a team will pass to or what type of routes will be thrown to. The only thing you can plan for is should I prepare for deep routes (and cover 2 along with the cover 4s are the only ones that are better against it and I don't like using cover 4s), and double teams which aren't true double teams like I mentioned before. I haven't tried the man to man for deep threats and bump and run for short passes and screens.

I'm taking an approach of not trying to figure out how to win the game too much until the next FOF game because this stuff might become obsolete.

Last edited by TeamBills59 : 09-07-2019 at 01:21 PM.
TeamBills59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:55 PM   #30
Front Office Midget
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Manitowoc, Wisconsin
I haven't run data, but anecdotally it seems that the Cover 3 formations are better against the long pass than Cover 2...
Front Office Midget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2019, 09:54 AM   #31
Sharkn20
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Front Office Midget View Post
I haven't run data, but anecdotally it seems that the Cover 3 formations are better against the long pass than Cover 2...

The help file confirms this
Sharkn20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 04:43 PM   #32
Born2Run1963
n00b
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Has anyone experimented with playing DB's in LB slots against pass happy teams? Just thought I'd post this here rather than forming a new thread.
Born2Run1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 05:43 PM   #33
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
I keep meaning to try but then forget. Have seen plenty of ppl okay LBs at NB and DB in dime however.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 02:15 PM   #34
Born2Run1963
n00b
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushikawa View Post
I keep meaning to try but then forget. Have seen plenty of ppl okay LBs at NB and DB in dime however.

I've definitely done that.
Born2Run1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 04:49 PM   #35
Dawgfan19
High School JV
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
I would also suggest playing a lot of Cover-3 Cloud/Sky and few Cover-4. I just defeated a team in the FFL that has no running plays in their GP. He of course threw for a lot of yards but the negative plays killed the offense. The results were:

38 incompletions vs. 33 completions
3 INTs
3 sacks including a strip sack
4 blocked passes
11 hurries (and my team doesn't even have a great pass rush)
14 passes defended

BTW, this was not just a one off result. I tested the defensive GP with good success.
Dawgfan19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2019, 08:34 PM   #36
Born2Run1963
n00b
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan19 View Post
I would also suggest playing a lot of Cover-3 Cloud/Sky and few Cover-4. I just defeated a team in the FFL that has no running plays in their GP. He of course threw for a lot of yards but the negative plays killed the offense. The results were:

38 incompletions vs. 33 completions
3 INTs
3 sacks including a strip sack
4 blocked passes
11 hurries (and my team doesn't even have a great pass rush)
14 passes defended

BTW, this was not just a one off result. I tested the defensive GP with good success.

Definitely doing that. Just wondering if anyone has tested throwing DB's into the LB slots even in those coverages. My guess is an out of position penalty would apply, presuming the DB would have a significantly lower rating if converted to LB. Just don't have time to test that at the moment.
Born2Run1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2019, 07:50 AM   #37
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
Dawgfan, how do you feel about the coverage bars for the zone coverages you mentioned? I tend to have a handful of Man-Bump buys but not enough guys with decent zone coverage bars to fill out those coverages?
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2019, 08:47 PM   #38
Dawgfan19
High School JV
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ushikawa View Post
Dawgfan, how do you feel about the coverage bars for the zone coverages you mentioned? I tend to have a handful of Man-Bump buys but not enough guys with decent zone coverage bars to fill out those coverages?

Yes, that could an issue not having enough zone bars with your DBs. But I tend to have safeties and a CB (to play nickel) with high zone. Also, in the cover-3 cloud, the cloud rotates toward the best WR. In the game logs, you should notice the LCB is in M2M coverage. Thus, zone may not be as important for that DB. As a side note, I did not play exclusively cloud. Jim has stated in prior versions of FOF that defensive familiars exist. Those just aren't displayed in the logs and do not penalize the defensive as much as the offensive - no idea if that still applies in FOF 8, but I didn't want to chance that.

In addition, Jim mentioned (again, prior FOF version so that disclaimer) all coverage bars come into play on every pass play. If I had to guess, a DB in zone would have that bar weighed high. But speculating, low zone may not trash the cover 3 scheme.

Last edited by Dawgfan19 : 10-28-2019 at 09:52 PM.
Dawgfan19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2019, 05:03 PM   #39
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
Sure, varying definitely helps and also with 34 you can run different variations. I tend to out guys with zone and bump short and zone and man in deep. Do you happen to know in Cloud if Best means overall or is it current RR?
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2019, 09:18 AM   #40
Dawgfan19
High School JV
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
I’ve operated under the assumption that RR no longer defines the “best receiver”. For example, on the 2nd play of the game, the double best was not the receiver with the best RR bar.

Also, the best receiver seems to occasionally change throughout the game. Presumably that is due to fatigue occurring.
Dawgfan19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2019, 10:41 AM   #41
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
RR still determines Best, but it is current not future. Also TEs RR seems to be discounted about 20%.

But my question is what is "TOP" WR as that is the verbiage from Cloud coverage. No real way to discern the answer to my knowledge but figured I would ask anyways.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2020, 04:44 AM   #42
Ternvig
n00b
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan19 View Post
Jim has stated in prior versions of FOF that defensive familiars exist. Those just aren't displayed in the logs and do not penalize the defensive as much as the offensive - no idea if that still applies in FOF 8, but I didn't want to chance that.

Question -
If I ran all my offensive plays out of the same formation fx. 113 and 113t, would I be able to force defensive familiars on my opponents defense? My opponents are - on 1st, 2nd and some 3rd downs - restricted to the same 1-3 defensive plays throughout the entire game if I only run one formation on offense?
Ternvig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2020, 07:48 AM   #43
Ushikawa
H.S. Freshman Team
 
Join Date: May 2015
Perhaps, Durham in CFL ran a season or 2 using only 113 and 113t and did quite well.
Ushikawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.