Survivor:Challenge/Common Thread (GAME OVER! FEED BACK WELCOME)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Umm, I didn't claim that path made it up. I wasn't lying. Path wasn't lying. Someone else is lying.

Its pretty easy for any current helsing member to do the same thing I did, and look through yesterday's posts. They'll see the early afternoon conversation between Sndvls, Lathum and I about our old Helsing teammates and the impact of the message from Goldeneagle's death. It lasted all of 3 or 4 posts.

Before Lathum left, he gave his choices for the names to be put in, and he (nor did anyone else putting in names for the vote) did not mention Pass there.

So I'm curious to hear who is lying Jonathan if you aren't and Path isn't.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Assuming that you weren't lying -- how do you know path wasn't lying?

I can see no reason for path to lie about something like that.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Its pretty easy for any current helsing member to do the same thing I did, and look through yesterday's posts. They'll see the early afternoon conversation between Sndvls, Lathum and I about our old Helsing teammates and the impact of the message from Goldeneagle's death. It lasted all of 3 or 4 posts.

What was said in those three or four posts?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

So Lathum wasn't suspicious of Pass yesterday at all? His name wasn't even dropped in the list of whom to select?

Nope, the only thing I saw when I read that afternoon conversation was lathum ask if we thought it was any more likely a chance of pass being a wolf now. His votes came in without pass's name in them. Like I said, we had a small conversation about the meaning of GOldeneagle's death and that was it.


I think I'm pretty much done with Jonathan and his attempts to weasel out of this though. I still stand by my original thoughts on where to remove wolves. I'm not going to go gunning for Pass in the short term, but will just keep in my mind what he did for later on if I live that long. If my tribe goes to tribal council, I still plan on voting for Swaggs next time I get a chance (since you all chose to not let us today). Then after that, likely path. Someone is lying between Jonathan and Path, and I'm tired of trying to get Jonathan to be straight about it instead of his beating around the bush or playing word games.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

What was said in those three or four posts?

From what they've said (more than once), they figure that GE as the seer means that one of me or Gram is a wolf. Even though the message said:

Next to some was written villager and some (or was it one? Maybe it was none?) was written wolf

While other members of Old Helsing (and members of New Helsing who went back in the thread) know that I was pretty high on Gram as a wolf for a time, I don't think we can make an assumption that one of us is a wolf based on this.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Nope, the only thing I saw when I read that afternoon conversation was lathum ask if we thought it was any more likely a chance of pass being a wolf now. His votes came in without pass's name in them. Like I said, we had a small conversation about the meaning of GOldeneagle's death and that was it.


I think I'm pretty much done with Jonathan and his attempts to weasel out of this though. I still stand by my original thoughts on where to remove wolves. I'm not going to go gunning for Pass in the short term, but will just keep in my mind what he did for later on if I live that long. If my tribe goes to tribal council, I still plan on voting for Swaggs next time I get a chance (since you all chose to not let us today). Then after that, likely path. Someone is lying between Jonathan and Path, and I'm tired of trying to get Jonathan to be straight about it instead of his beating around the bush or playing word games.

Alan, what do you mena by 'votes'? Did you guys take a vote on who to name for our tribal council or something?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think I'm pretty much done with Jonathan and his attempts to weasel out of this though. I still stand by my original thoughts on where to remove wolves. I'm not going to go gunning for Pass in the short term, but will just keep in my mind what he did for later on if I live that long. If my tribe goes to tribal council, I still plan on voting for Swaggs next time I get a chance (since you all chose to not let us today). Then after that, likely path. Someone is lying between Jonathan and Path, and I'm tired of trying to get Jonathan to be straight about it instead of his beating around the bush or playing word games.

I thought I answered all of your questions. What more do you want to know? I'm sorry if my answers don't meet your expectations, but what can I do?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

What was said in those three or four posts?

I still don't know if its allowed to quote stuff from our tribal threads or not (Barkeep can you answer that?)

In the meantime, I'll give the play by play paraphraze:

Lathum asks if we think there is a higher chance of pass being a wolf (my assumption based off of goldeneagle's death message).

Sndvls responds saying its possible but then turns his point of topic to the likliness of an oz conversion.

I comment saying what I said earlier in this thread. I think there is a chance of goldeneagle's death message meaning either he or gram might be the helsing wolf, but its a dangerous assumption and could likely be false.

Lathum responds again and talks more about the possible Oz conversion.

I respond back about the oz conversions and in particular to Cronin's place in that. I then turn the conversation to us needing to put out names for recommendation if we win. (since barkeep posted a reminder that we needed to do so right in the middle of this conversation and we hadn't begun to talk about it at all). I recommend Kwhit and Anxiety for the vote.

Lathum puts out his vote nominations (not Pass or gramm) and says he has to leave for a while, but says he will support whatever decisions we make.

Sndvls comments on who his choices are (and includes in there that he would like to leave Gramm and Pass out of it due to our original agreement.


Then that particular conversation dies.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

From what they've said (more than once), they figure that GE as the seer means that one of me or Gram is a wolf.

And how would I know that Lathum was even involved in a conversation like that if path hadn't told me?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Alan, what do you mena by 'votes'? Did you guys take a vote on who to name for our tribal council or something?

yep. I told people I didn't want to just put in my names I thought was best, so wanted to continue with what had made helsing successful. I asked everyone to give their names of two people, and the two names with the most votes I would submit. Everyone except Mr.W voted, and the winner was kwhit and anxiety which I submitted.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I still don't know if its allowed to quote stuff from our tribal threads or not (Barkeep can you answer that?)

In the meantime, I'll give the play by play paraphraze:

Lathum asks if we think there is a higher chance of pass being a wolf (my assumption based off of goldeneagle's death message).

Sndvls responds saying its possible but then turns his point of topic to the likliness of an oz conversion.

I comment saying what I said earlier in this thread. I think there is a chance of goldeneagle's death message meaning either he or gram might be the helsing wolf, but its a dangerous assumption and could likely be false.

Lathum responds again and talks more about the possible Oz conversion.

I respond back about the oz conversions and in particular to Cronin's place in that. I then turn the conversation to us needing to put out names for recommendation if we win. (since barkeep posted a reminder that we needed to do so right in the middle of this conversation and we hadn't begun to talk about it at all). I recommend Kwhit and Anxiety for the vote.

Lathum puts out his vote nominations (not Pass or gramm) and says he has to leave for a while, but says he will support whatever decisions we make.

Sndvls comments on who his choices are (and includes in there that he would like to leave Gramm and Pass out of it due to our original agreement.


Then that particular conversation dies.

It sounds like Lathum has said as much about me as I have about you. Just sayin'.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

It sounds like Lathum has said as much about me as I have about you. Just sayin'.

Well the big difference was he didn't offer your name up for a vote. This was just in dicussion in the same sense as what you and Gramm had a few days ago. When the time came to vote, Lathum was the first to toss out names after mine and he didn't bring you up at all. Sndvls also didn't bring you up. And Mr.W didnt vote. You and Gramm received 0 votes from our side.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

yep. I told people I didn't want to just put in my names I thought was best, so wanted to continue with what had made helsing successful. I asked everyone to give their names of two people, and the two names with the most votes I would submit. Everyone except Mr.W voted, and the winner was kwhit and anxiety which I submitted.

It would have been nice if we could have done that. We had a lot of other stuff going on instead.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well the big difference was he didn't offer your name up for a vote. This was just in dicussion in the same sense as what you and Gramm had a few days ago. When the time came to vote, Lathum was the first to toss out names after mine and he didn't bring you up at all. Sndvls also didn't bring you up. And Mr.W didnt vote. You and Gramm received 0 votes from our side.

Right, just like when it came time for me to send what I thought might be our PM (due to a disagreement with AE over how the challenge should be done), I chose path and swaggs. I'm sorry our tribe couldn't have been more organized about it, but there was a lot of other stuff for us to talk through.

[path12]

I did tell JE that Lathum had mentioned Pass and an Oz member. It was around 1:30 or so Pacific time. I was just going off the top of my head there, I didn't go back and verify the sequences or anything like that.

[path12]

My exact quote to him was in response to a question about if we had decided who we would pick:

"Right now Alan is pushing for KWhit and Anxiety. Lathum is supicious of Pass and would like to toss a Oz member in there but I think Alan will carry it."

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

My exact quote to him was in response to a question about if we had decided who we would pick:

"Right now Alan is pushing for KWhit and Anxiety. Lathum is supicious of Pass and would like to toss a Oz member in there but I think Alan will carry it."

See, I would classify that as incorrect information. Especially after going back through and rereading the thread from yesterday. At no point did I find Lathum saying pass would be a choice or good choice for the vote.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

The fact that you told me Lathum wanted to vote for me points the arrow toward you being the one lying, JE. I don't see what path would have to gain from making that up.

PASS, JE is flat out lying to you all. I NEVER mentioned your name. I wanted to vote Ardent and ITC based on all the crap Oz has pulled this game. I am sure you of all people will be able to understand my anti-OZ sentiment.

I am still in full support of maintaining allegience to the original helsing, so much so that I am voting for cronin tonight.

You would do best to eliminate JE asap.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Lathum

PASS, JE is flat out lying to you all. I NEVER mentioned your name. I wanted to vote Ardent and ITC based on all the crap Oz has pulled this game. I am sure you of all people will be able to understand my anti-OZ sentiment.

I am still in full support of maintaining allegience to the original helsing, so much so that I am voting for cronin tonight.

You would do best to eliminate JE asap.

Ummm...

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

See, I would classify that as incorrect information. Especially after going back through and rereading the thread from yesterday. At no point did I find Lathum saying pass would be a choice or good choice for the vote.

Well, that's my bad then. Like I said, I was going off the top of my head and remembered Lathum mentioning Pass. Now, looking at the actual posts I see that it was not in relation to a vote. I take full blame and responsibility for the mistake.

[Lathum]

The only time I mentioned Pass was early in the day as a possible seer scan since they were discussing scanning Pass or Gramm. I never mentioned Pass as a vote candidate.

[Barkeep49]

Ok clearly this challenge was made too hard. I worried about it being too easy and likely went overboard in the other direction. Here are some topics for each phrase.

1. Survivor
2. Good advice for this game
3. FOFC Moderator
4. Famous Threads
5. Famous quotes
6. Tourism
7. FOF Survivor
8. Cereal
9. My thoughts
10. US Presidents

I will give how many words are in each phrase around 5:30 as a further hint.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

PASS, JE is flat out lying to you all. I NEVER mentioned your name. I wanted to vote Ardent and ITC based on all the crap Oz has pulled this game. I am sure you of all people will be able to understand my anti-OZ sentiment.

I am still in full support of maintaining allegience to the original helsing, so much so that I am voting for cronin tonight.

You would do best to eliminate JE asap.

Yeah, I definitely can understand the anti-Oz sentiment. But hey, if you did mention my name once, you should say it. Right now, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this thing, though.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah, I definitely can understand the anti-Oz sentiment. But hey, if you did mention my name once, you should say it. Right now, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this thing, though.

I did. #2371.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah, I definitely can understand the anti-Oz sentiment. But hey, if you did mention my name once, you should say it. Right now, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this thing, though.

I just told you above exactly what I told JE. The mistake is mine, not Lathum's or JE's or anyone elses.

[Passacaglia]

Looks like that's been cleared up....I think... anyway, I've kind of placed the call to JE to convince me to do something other than not work on this challenge today and vote him off tomorrow. It's been a while, and my opinion hasn't changed much.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Looks like that's been cleared up....I think... anyway, I've kind of placed the call to JE to convince me to do something other than not work on this challenge today and vote him off tomorrow. It's been a while, and my opinion hasn't changed much.

What do you want me to do? If you want to throw the challenge, I can't stop you. If nothing else, I hope the rest of Howard sees where your loyalties lie.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

What do you want me to do? If you want to throw the challenge, I can't stop you. If nothing else, I hope the rest of Howard sees where your loyalties lie.

I think the rest of Howard is with me on this one, and doesn't want you telling the other tribe everything we've talked about, then raising a big stink when they show they know about it. But if I'm wrong, I'd like to hear someone else from Howard say it.

[Grammaticus]

FWIW, I suggested we submit the names of Path and Mr. Wednesday. This would garner the result of Path getting voted off. I was assuming the Helsing group would NOT vote off Mr. W. This would have achieved two results. It would have hit the 50/50 payout of JE and Path and it would end this devious private thread. All of that was knowledge on our side prior to the vote. I asked everyone to vote on who we should submit and we did not get anywhere. I posted my two names in the thread last and those were not used. JE PM'd the other names without telling the rest of us.

He has to be a wolf.

Earlier in the day I suggested we toss out a fake trust list from GE to try and support getting rid of whoever we thought should get voted off. JE said he did not feel good about lying as a villager.............We all now know that is a lie. That equals wolf.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

FWIW, I suggested we submit the names of Path and Mr. Wednesday. This would garner the result of Path getting voted off. I was assuming the Helsing group would NOT vote off Mr. W. This would have achieved two results. It would have hit the 50/50 payout of JE and Path and it would end this devious private thread. All of that was knowledge on our side prior to the vote. I asked everyone to vote on who we should submit and we did not get anywhere. I posted my two names in the thread last and those were not used. JE PM'd the other names without telling the rest of us.

He has to be a wolf.

Earlier in the day I suggested we toss out a fake trust list from GE to try and support getting rid of whoever we thought should get voted off. JE said he did not feel good about lying as a villager.............We all now know that is a lie. That equals wolf.

To JE's credit, I was pretty adamant that he should be the one to send in the results. I wasn't able to be online then, JE said he was, and I wasn't trusting AE at the time (I hope you all will understand why).

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

To JE's credit, I was pretty adamant that he should be the one to send in the results. I wasn't able to be online then, JE said he was, and I wasn't trusting AE at the time (I hope you all will understand why).

Okay, maybe that's not to his credit, but it's more like my blunder. Again, my bad (how many times have I said that today? )

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

FWIW, I suggested we submit the names of Path and Mr. Wednesday. This would garner the result of Path getting voted off. I was assuming the Helsing group would NOT vote off Mr. W. This would have achieved two results. It would have hit the 50/50 payout of JE and Path and it would end this devious private thread. All of that was knowledge on our side prior to the vote. I asked everyone to vote on who we should submit and we did not get anywhere. I posted my two names in the thread last and those were not used. JE PM'd the other names without telling the rest of us.

He has to be a wolf.

Earlier in the day I suggested we toss out a fake trust list from GE to try and support getting rid of whoever we thought should get voted off. JE said he did not feel good about lying as a villager.............We all now know that is a lie. That equals wolf.

Wow, Gram -- you have been all over the place in my trust list this game. You've gone from middle, down to the bottom, back to middle, now near the top.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

FWIW, I suggested we submit the names of Path and Mr. Wednesday. This would garner the result of Path getting voted off. I was assuming the Helsing group would NOT vote off Mr. W. This would have achieved two results. It would have hit the 50/50 payout of JE and Path and it would end this devious private thread. All of that was knowledge on our side prior to the vote. I asked everyone to vote on who we should submit and we did not get anywhere. I posted my two names in the thread last and those were not used. JE PM'd the other names without telling the rest of us.

He has to be a wolf.

Earlier in the day I suggested we toss out a fake trust list from GE to try and support getting rid of whoever we thought should get voted off. JE said he did not feel good about lying as a villager.............We all now know that is a lie. That equals wolf.

So sorry I messed up your little Helsing plan. Not all of us have loyalties to that tribe, you know. I've already explained what happened last night.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Earlier in the day I suggested we toss out a fake trust list from GE to try and support getting rid of whoever we thought should get voted off. JE said he did not feel good about lying as a villager.............We all now know that is a lie. That equals wolf.

Yeah, because I didn't want us doing the same thing we jumped on Oz about, and the same that Lupus jumped on Blade for doing, I must be a wolf. If a lie equals a wolf, what does that make what you wanted to do, Gramm?

[Mr. Wednesday]

If anybody just noticed it, I accidentally made a substantive post after being dead, and promptly deleted it. Somehow, I skipped right over Barkeep's nightly summary.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

If anybody just noticed it, I accidentally made a substantive post after being dead, and promptly deleted it. Somehow, I skipped right over Barkeep's nightly summary.

Man MrW, Thursdays are just not your day.

[Passacaglia]

Members of New Helsing, what are your thoughts on path now? After his reveal, everything got pretty quiet.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Members of New Helsing, what are your thoughts on path now? After his reveal, everything got pretty quiet.

Well since I am pretty sure JE is a wolf the clears Path IMO

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Members of New Helsing, what are your thoughts on path now? After his reveal, everything got pretty quiet.

That I'm a wonderful teammate? All-around good guy?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by path12

That I'm a wonderful teammate? All-around good guy?

So your misinterpretation of what JE told you, and what's come about as a result, hasn't given anyone else cause for alarm?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'll go back and look, but off the top of my head, I don't remember Lathum saying you should be voted off. and indeed he did not submit your name as his choice. Our tribe's choices if we had won the competition would have been kwhit and anxiety.

Still catching up, but I believe this would have been a unaminous choice as well. When we were discussing alternative strategies, I briefly mentioned pass or JE in one post. But I don't think anybody in our tribe ever thought that would be a good pair of names to submit.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So your misinterpretation of what JE told you, and what's come about as a result, hasn't given anyone else cause for alarm?

I didn't misintrepret anything JE told me. I did make a mistake about what I told him and owned up to it. Frankly I think the whole episode about my mention of you to him has been way blown out of proportion, and that it's just become one of those red herrings that we run away with from time to time. But then I know that there was nothing behind it so I know it wasn't a big deal.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by JE

Second, when path and I talked, it was late in the day. He asked if I felt safe in regards to our TC, so I gave him a brief run down of what had happened. I told him that we thought there was a wolf in Oz and that we had questioned ITC, but it looked like he was in the clear. I never indicated that ITC was still a target. In fact, I said that I had absolutely no idea who was going to be voted off.

This is from JE's post 2330. Are you saying he's lying here?

[st.cronin]

If JE is a wolf (which I am as close to positive as I've ever been in one of these games) then path is likely cleared, no?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Members of New Helsing, what are your thoughts on path now? After his reveal, everything got pretty quiet.

I actually brought it up in tribal council earlier a little bit of conversation that indirectly mentioned path. I think with Mr.W's death the message was pretty clear... the wolves wanted me voted off. With Mr.W alive, Helsing would have a majority and it was pretty clear that I likely would survive. With Mr.W dead now its 3-3 in our tribe.

I thought for a bit what that says about cronin, but decided in the end that keeping cronin around doesn't necessarily make him a wolf, its just far more likely he would get voted off in the near future than I would.. so the wolves had to take this opportunity to get rid of me.

The votes didn't quite go like I expected (or I assume the wolves to expect) though, and without knowing how Swaggs is voting, Path not voting me off moves him up some in my eyes as far as trust goes and I think also ruins the wolves plan some.

I don't see how the wolves make the move killing mr.w that they did without path voting for me. THe two moves don't seem to work together, so right now I am leaning closer to thinking Path is ok than I was yesterday.

Can't comment on this more as I have to leave for a few hours now. Back tonight.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If JE is a wolf (which I am as close to positive as I've ever been in one of these games) then path is likely cleared, no?

Not entirely.. technically a second wolf could be from Howard with a conversion.. but that would be crazy I think for that to happen, and am not going to waste time entertaining that thought for now. I think though Path's actions today speak louder for me than what Jonathan pulled yesterday speaking bad for him.

I think even if Cronin is also a villager and not a wolf (as may be the case), path as a wolf wouldn't be voting him off as he would be an easier later target.

[Alan T]

Ok out for real. back later

[st.cronin]

I've worked through similar math, Alan, and I think you are likely not a wolf. I think Swaggs is PROBABLY the wolf in our group.

[Passacaglia]

The votes are public?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Not entirely.. technically a second wolf could be from Howard with a conversion.. but that would be crazy I think for that to happen, and am not going to waste time entertaining that thought for now. I think though Path's actions today speak louder for me than what Jonathan pulled yesterday speaking bad for him.

I think even if Cronin is also a villager and not a wolf (as may be the case), path as a wolf wouldn't be voting him off as he would be an easier later target.

I also find it hard to believe that path and JE are both wolves -- if so, they're playing us like fiddles, and their pretended befuddlement with each other is pure genius. My inclination is that JE is the wolf, too. It just seems unlikely that path happened to misinterpret what JE said, and in doing so, happened into the truth about votes being on ITC.