Obama Administration doing a 180 on the Auto Industry?

[SirFozzie]

Wow.. what a freakin bootlegger reverse here.

From thinking that the auto industry is too big to fail to:

Forcing the GM CEO, Rick Waggoner to resign (too bad he'll probably keep his golden parachute)
Telling Chrysler they have 30 days to arrange a merger with Fiat, or he will let them go bankrupt.

I applaud that Obama is standing up and saying enough is enough.. I just wish it was a couple of tens of billions ago.

[Galaxy]

Did Chrysler get a bail-out?

I actually hate that Obama is doing this. But that's another story.

[DaddyTorgo]

eh, I'm okay with them flip-flopping on what they want to do with it. shows that they're thinking and learning instead of stubbornly picking a course of action and sticking with it no matter the consequences

[RainMaker]

This is the shit that should have gone down back in December.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Did Chrysler get a bail-out?

I actually hate that Obama is doing this. But that's another story.

Yes, Chrysler and GM got bailed out (and both came back and asked for more money)

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/fe...uto_03-31.html

GM and Chrysler already received a combined $17.4 billion in loans from the government in 2008. GM wants $16.6 billion more while Chrysler wants $5 billion.

If it doesn''t look like things are going to change then it's time to stop trying to use buckets to pour water over the side (loans and bailouts), when there's there's so many holes in the bottom letting the water in (mismanagement and expectations that the public won't let them die). Instead, it's time to say abandon ship...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is the shit that should have gone down back in December.

but bush didn't want to make the decision and do it so he passed the buck on to obama

[SirFozzie]

Be fair, DT, Bush signing the loans wouldn't ahve happened without the democrats lining up behind it solidly.

[gstelmack]

I was under the impression that the bailout in the fall came with the stipulation that they submit restructuring plans. Ford balked and took no money, the other two did, and the Administration program basically laughed at the plans they submitted and said make REAL changes or we will let you fail, otherwise you'll be back here every year.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Be fair, DT, Bush signing the loans wouldn't ahve happened without the democrats lining up behind it solidly.

true

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I was under the impression that the bailout in the fall came with the stipulation that they submit restructuring plans. Ford balked and took no money, the other two did, and the Administration program basically laughed at the plans they submitted and said make REAL changes or we will let you fail, otherwise you'll be back here every year.

yep. i think more or less that's true

[ISiddiqui]

David Brooks had a great article in the NY Times today about how even if Obama may wish to deny further money to GM and Chrysler if they can't come up with good restructuring plans, but political considerations would never let him. And they'd just keep pushing it back 3 months, 3 months, etc.

Op-Ed Columnist - Car Dealer in Chief - NYTimes.com

[stevew]

More like Obama doing a 187 on the auto industry.

[chesapeake]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I was under the impression that the bailout in the fall came with the stipulation that they submit restructuring plans. Ford balked and took no money...

Ford never asked for money in the first place. Ford's CEO, Alan Mulally, said last fall that he supported Chrysler and GM getting money because the failure of one or the other would probably cause a number of suppliers to fail, thus driving up their costs of production. He also wanted to have the option to ask for federal assistance at a future date if one of their competitors failed or the economy went too deeply into the tank.

Ford did submit a restructuring plan to Congress:
hxxp://media.ford.com/images/10031/Ford_Motor_Company_Business_Plan.pdf

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This is getting WAY out of hand. Obama is now planning on putting gov't appointed members on the board of directors......

U.S. Plans Key Role In Naming GM Board - washingtonpost.com

In addition, he has demanded that Chevrolet and Dodge cease all participation in NASCAR........

Obama Orders Chevrolet and Dodge Out Of NASCAR - Car News/Motorsports/High Performance/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

It's becoming blatently obvious that the movement to allow these companies to move to bankruptcy last year was clearly the best idea. Now we have gov't meddling in these companies and they're STILL going to go to bankrupt.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

In addition, he has demanded that Chevrolet and Dodge cease all participation in NASCAR........

Obama Orders Chevrolet and Dodge Out Of NASCAR - Car News/Motorsports/High Performance/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

It's becoming blatently obvious that the movement to allow these companies to move to bankruptcy last year was clearly the best idea. Now we have gov't meddling in these companies and they're STILL going to go to bankrupt.

Obama Orders Chevrolet and Dodge Out Of NASCAR - Car News

HAPPY APRIL FOOLS' DAY! With their racing budgets deemed “unnecessary expenditures,” GM and Chrysler are ordered to cease racing operations at the end of the season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Hey, at least you're reading the articles!

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Hey, at least you're reading the articles!

Maybe you should try reading them, too.

[miked]

MBBF is the jbmagic of politics?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Maybe you should try reading them, too.

I certainly did. I figured we'd go a page or two before anyone even noticed. Instead, it took one poster.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I certainly did. I figured we'd go a page or two before anyone even noticed. Instead, it took one poster.

Riiiiiiiight....

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Riiiiiiiight....

Fair enough. My lame attempt at a joke has distracted the conversation from the matter at hand being discussed. Diversion Operation wins again.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I certainly did. I figured we'd go a page or two before anyone even noticed. Instead, it took one poster.

This might be believable if you didn't do this same type of thing on days other than April Fools.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by cartman

This might be believable if you didn't do this same type of thing on days other than April Fools.

[Cringer]

Barrack Obama is a black man and will stop races in America


Proof of change under President Obama. - Front Office Football Central

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I certainly did. I figured we'd go a page or two before anyone even noticed. Instead, it took one poster.

Are you seriously trying to say that you knew it was a joke when you posted it? That's just a lie and everyone knows it.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Are you seriously trying to say that you knew it was a joke when you posted it? That's just a lie and everyone knows it.

I believe him.











(april fools!)

[Galaxy]

Is Obama going to bail out Maximum Football?

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Yes, Chrysler and GM got bailed out (and both came back and asked for more money)

NewsHour Extra: Obama Fires GM Chief in Effort to Save U.S. Auto Industry | March 31, 2009 | PBS

GM and Chrysler already received a combined $17.4 billion in loans from the government in 2008. GM wants $16.6 billion more while Chrysler wants $5 billion.

If it doesn''t look like things are going to change then it's time to stop trying to use buckets to pour water over the side (loans and bailouts), when there's there's so many holes in the bottom letting the water in (mismanagement and expectations that the public won't let them die). Instead, it's time to say abandon ship...

The money they got last year was considered a bridge loan to get them through the end of March so they could submit their plans and the new Administration could evaluate. The amount of money they got wasn't close to what they said they needed. Obviously the plan was not acceptable, but I'm not shocked...I would hope they wouldn't just accept the first plan submitted by either of these companies.

Neither company is doing enough to sell cars, I look at the ads in the papers daily because we are in the market for a SUV or Crossover vehicle and I have yet to see anything appealing enough to get me to the dealership. They need to start advertising their best price to get people to the dealerships instead of fucking around, they need to sell cars just above cost to make some profit.

The other day I looked up a Chevy Avalanche online at a dealership, and they still want $47,000. As soon as I saw that price I just closed my browser.

[Raiders Army]

We saw a commercial for GM's Total Confidence Program and I think there was something on there about them making your payments for you for seven months if you lost your job. Isn't that targeting the demographic that can't pay their bills? Just make some better cars.

Also, their website is down for the Total Confidence Program: GM Total Confidence - Assurance You Need | General Motors

Heh.

Edit--their website is up now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

With the obvious caviat that the below post is from a conservative blog, the poster is a 16-year bankruptcy lawyer who makes some pretty good points about why the troubled automakers need to run to bankruptcy court as soon as posible..........

Why General Motors and Chrysler Need to Declare Bankruptcy Immediately (Wizbang)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Balldog

The money they got last year was considered a bridge loan

Yep, a bridge loan. "Bridge" as in "what I'd like to sell you if you believe this is going to do anything except delay the inevitable".

[SportsDino]

I'm still in the camp that its time to let new car companies enter the field and snap up all these assets that GM and Chrysler are going to let rot.

Maybe even do this by bankrupting GM and splitting it off into specialist companies (i.e. kill off about a dozen copycat models, focus each new company on a core plan/market).

I think we need to get back to the car companies being small enough that they can actually calculate and understand their bottom line again. They are too busy throwing around billions all day that they probably only see a sea of red at all times and are constantly in triage and issuing more bad policies just to stay afloat.

If the government wants to do something, step in and guarantee the old workers benefits (market it as a 'for the public good' move), and take them off the books. Everything else goes into the bankruptcy grinder, personally I'd prefer the company be split rather than left as one giant carcass to fail again (I'd prefer a split out, and let the profitable pieces thrive, and the dead weight just die already).

Finish wiping out the shareholders while they are at it, they already lost 90%+ of everything anyway. Paying billions in loans to save a couple billion in remaining stock value (if that) is just plain stupid.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Fair enough. My lame attempt at a joke has distracted the conversation from the matter at hand being discussed. Diversion Operation wins again.

You're in good company:

In her April 1 column, Ann Coulter fell for a fake April Fools' Day article by Car and Driver magazine that claimed that President Obama has ordered General Motors and Chrysler to cease their participation in NASCAR because it is an "unnecessary expenditure." Coulter wrote, "If Obama can tell GM and Chrysler that their participation in NASCAR is an 'unnecessary expenditure,' isn't having public schools force students to follow Muslim rituals, recite Islamic prayers and plan 'jihads' also an 'unnecessary expenditure'?"

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

We saw a commercial for GM's Total Confidence Program and I think there was something on there about them making your payments for you for seven months if you lost your job. Isn't that targeting the demographic that can't pay their bills? Just make some better cars.

Also, their website is down for the Total Confidence Program: GM Total Confidence - Assurance You Need | General Motors

Heh.

Edit--their website is up now.

That's the problem with the auto industry. They are more concerned about stupid gimmicks and financing plans than actually building a product that I want to drive. You know what would sell me on a car right now? 60 miles per gallon.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You know what would sell me on a car right now? 60 miles per gallon.

+1

*Provided that car doesn't cost more than 25K.

[SportsDino]

What would sell me on a car, is if you could guarantee that if I don't do something completely batshit with it, and follow a maintenance plan (i.e. follow the manual to the letter), that nothing is going to break on the car for say 5 years (what I presume the average loan term is for a car).

I've mentioned it before, if some computer goes haywire less than 2 years after it rolls off the assembly line and I'm about to die, it kinda turns me off from your company for life (assuming I lived). I know people think its a natural thing for cars and junk to break down, but you know what, maybe thats the great engineering challenge of the new century. Build crap that lasts AND looks cute.

I'm probably going to buy some high end car (granted I'm hoping my fairly new 2006 GM car survives a while) next time just to have a reasonable hope that it delivers what its supposed to. It should not be a guess with a NEW car and normal use. Yes, warranty covered it, and they semi-fessed up to it being a defect, in a non legally binding way, after I ran around through their low level underlings a while to get to someone who was paid enough not to be an ass about my repair request.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's the problem with the auto industry. They are more concerned about stupid gimmicks and financing plans than actually building a product that I want to drive. You know what would sell me on a car right now? 60 miles per gallon.

Good luck