Did I play this hand right?

[Lathum]

So all you poker players out there, I need your opinion.This is kind of a long post but an entertaining hand.

I was playing in a live tournament last night and I was playing perfectly untill this hand happened and I can't stop thinking if I made the right move. I'll set the situation up for you.

There were about 70 people in the tournament and at the time of the hand we were probably down to about 40. We started with 3000 in chips and 10-20 blinds. At the time I had about 5600 in chips and was the big stack at my table. I also had a good read on most of the players at my table and was playing flawlesly.

At the time the blinds were up to 100-200 and I was third to act. The person under the gun folds and the next person calls 200. I look at my cards and find pocket jacks. I raise to 600. 2 people call including the big blind. The original 200 caller folded leaving 3 people in the hand.

The flop comes 4 8 8 with 2 clubs. I am now the first to act. I think for a minute and ask myself a few questions. The first is am I ahead in the hand right now. It is a pretty safe assumption I am unless one of my openents was holding an overpair ( I consider this unlikely since they both just called my initial raise and didn't re-raise). Or unless one of them was holding an 8 and playing a hand like A8 suited, I thought this was also unlikely since my big pre-flop raise would have driven them away from a drawing hand.

Next I ask myself what could they have. I am assuming they have big cards such as AK, AQ ( which one of the guys in the hand had already called a big raise with once before) or KQ. I figured a Jack was unlikely since I had 2 of them already. They also could hold an underpair such as tens, or if they had 44 I was dead. However I was confident I was ahead at this point.

This is where my play becomes questionable. I know I have to bet a decent amount since there was already 2000 in the pot and I needed to make it expensive for them to hit there overcard on the turn or river. I can check and see if one of them bets, but I decided this is a bad idea because I don't want to give them a free card that can beat me and I am a pretty aggressive player anyway. So without much more thought I go all in and decided to make it REALLY expensive to try and draw their overcard. The guy next to act thinks for a minute and calls, as soon as he does I realize I made a huge mistake because I only have him covered by 800 in chips. I thought he still may be on a draw but I bet 4200 to win 2000 which isn't a smart bet. The other guy folds leaving us heads up and my opponent all in.

I flip the jacks feeling confident I just need to dodge a few bullets and my oppenent flips 6 8 offsuit giving him trip 8's. Another 4 comes on the turn and a blank on the river giving him a fullhouse 8's over 4's. At this point I want to leap across the table and kill him, not because he beat me but because he called a big raise pre-flop with 86 offsuit. I actually battled back to 2000 in chips and had a chance to triple up and get back in it, but my pocket queens got smashed when I was all in and someone caught a spade on the river for a flush.

As I was driving home I started to replay the hand and I wondered if I played it right. By going all in I put my oppenents to the test for all of there chips. I never could have put him on his hand, and even with the eights he had a weak kicker and could have been slaughtered if I had A8 or something similar. IF I bet small and he calls the turn card is a 4 making the board 4 8 8 4 I probably still bet there with no over cards.

SO what do you all think? What could I have done differentlly if anything?

[SirFozzie]

You could have hit the moron over the head with a table.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

You could have hit the moron over the head with a table.

That was my initial instinct

[rkmsuf]

acting first after the flop is always a dicey proposistion. your only error in retrospect was not firing into the pot more pre flop but the blinds were not big enough to really merit the risk.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That was my initial instinct

Your own fault then

Either that, or a simple punch to the jimmies.

Many many problems can be solved by punching someone in the jimmies.. its the duct tape of interpersonal problems.

[AnalBumCover]

I think you played the hand correctly.

[GoSeahawks]

I'd be willing to bet 86 guy didn't make it much further in the tourney.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GoSeahawks

I'd be willing to bet 86 guy didn't make it much further in the tourney.

He didn't make it huch further into the parking lot either

[SirFozzie]

Just remember, a full house beats a pair of Jacks, but a honda civic at 40 miles per hour beats most human bodies.

[AnalBumCover]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Just remember, a full house beats a pair of Jacks, but a honda civic at 40 miles per hour beats most human bodies.

[SirFozzie]

In reference to the above picture.... I plead the fifth.

Besides, nobody SAW me there.... you got nothing copper....

[JHandley]

It sounds to me like the guy was gonna play his 86o regardless. If he called a 600 bet preflop, there's a good chance he would have called a 1200 preflop bet with that hand.

Also, I'm not sure you ever could have gotten away from that hand. Let's say you play it a little more conservative and only bet the pot after the flop. He's either gonna call to drag you along, or he's gonna go all in right then. At that point, you might have been thinking he had pocket 4's and gotten away from it. But, if he just calls and the 4 hits on the turn, there's now a very large pot that you would go all in for.

Mind you, I am finally getting around to breaking even playing poker, so everything I just wrote might be complete crap and in fact the only option you had was to run his ass over

[RPI-Fan]

I just don't see the advantage of pushing right there. There are two hands that potentially call you, that you have soundly beat (99 and TT), and a heck of a lot more that call you and have you creamed (78s through A8s), QQ through AA (though these are less likely), and 44. In addition, a flush draw can marginally call you, and if it's big suited cards, thinking may be ahead already, will indeed call very much of the time.

So I think the key is to understand what the goal of your all-in is... obviously, you wanted to take the pot down right there. But I think that will happen just as often with a 2/3's pot bet as it will with an all-in. I don't know if you think you'd be able to laydown the Jacks to a convincing raise (i.e. immediate all-in)... I think I would, in this situation. I'd say you at least want to put yourself in the position to make that choice, though.

Edit: Plus, on a more psychological note - your rather unhesitant all-in here screams "Don't call me!"

[Ragone]

honestly.. pocket jacks make me nervous. and that 88 on the flop would have terrified me..

i think i would have gotten away from it after the turn.. with him sticking around.. i would have put him on something like a8.. k8 but not 68

[chinaski]

yea, what Ragone said... the pair 8's on the flop would have killed it for me. I would have checked just to see if that other 8 really was out there, or to see if I could smell i bluff. that dude is pretty damn stupid for calling the 8-6, but some days it seems like the random rags will often kill pockets anything.. so maybe he was just felling lucky.

[AnalBumCover]

Being first to act (second if the big blind was around) on the flop, could we immediately put him on an 8 if he has not yet acted on the flop at this point, with him cold-calling the pre-flop raise?

How about we check/raise/fold the flop?

[Ragone]

Thats what i was saying abc.. i would have checked.. and this idiot clearly would have bet.. thusly putting him on trip 8's

what this thread needs is a animated gif from tilt of the guy jumping over the table

[AnalBumCover]

Originally Posted by Ragone

Thats what i was saying abc.. i would have checked.. and this idiot clearly would have bet.. thusly putting him on trip 8's

Gotcha. I didn't read your post thoroughly enough.