Baseball Mogul 2006 Preview Thread (Yes, Virginia, there ARE lefties and righties!)

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

dola,

Baseball Mogul 2006

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"The greatest game ever" is back with a vengeance on March 15th.

Click here to learn more



Does it matter?


Todd

Well, that date has been up for a while. Here's hoping that it just hasn't been updated. Even if it is released tomorrow, we can still be hopeful that with good FOFC-style feedback (ie--NOT the kind I've observed at the Mogul forum from his fanboys and gripers), the things that need to be corrected will be corrected.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

You're the only one that has registered and posted in the beta forum that I've seen, though. At least the others have the excuse of not having registered.

If I were Clay, I'd be quite frustrated that someone would download the beta, get updates to it, then post things that aren't working properly in another forum without mentioning it in the beta forum.

going there now to post about the trade AI. i already posted there last week about my 100 sim i did. that show how the Yankees dominated and won 66 times.

but there no excuse for anyone that got the beta and not being registered there by now too and not posting in the beta forum.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Well, that date has been up for a while. Here's hoping that it just hasn't been updated. Even if it is released tomorrow, we can still be hopeful that with good FOFC-style feedback (ie--NOT the kind I've observed at the Mogul forum from his fanboys and gripers), the things that need to be corrected will be corrected.

I know you're doing a great job testing, as usual.

I just saw this today when going to the site... I think he's going to release the game so tonight ought to be cram time.


Todd

[Bee]

Ok...I registered at the site to post my results on the beta forum and now I can't access the beta forum (which is strange because I could before registering). I sent an email to Clay, but I hate bothering him with something so insignificant when he's so busy with game issues.

Has anyone run long term tests with version 7.76? I didn't have time last night for a long test but ran through 10 or so seasons and got much improved results (Yankees only 1 series win, 6 teams won it all over 10 seasons).

[Galaril]

To be honest Ii am getting alittle discouraged on this one. The fixes are not really solving some of the core problems with this game. I am a number of others have psoted over there about the big small market disparity andf the fixes done have not solved the problem it seems. There are a number of other things people are starting to bring up. For example :
-too many injuries still
-ridiculous trades as mentioned here
-Out of wack player stats in the minors and from computer generated players
1200 homeruns in the minors by one guy??
There are others but these are just a few off the top of my head. I probably won't buy this though I really want ot unless the large market thing is fixed along with getting trades down to a semi-realistic level. The discouragement come sfrom the fact these bugs /problems have been mentioned for a while and still haven't been addressed. There is a poll as to whether the angels should be LA or Anaheim. That is the last thing that needs to be addressed with some of the other outstanding issues.

[Bee]

I wouldn't let the big market disparity be the reason I didn't buy the game. From my testing, it's pretty easy to balance to a large extent by just adjusting a few numbers in game. While I agree it should be fixed during the beta, it's not a game breaker IMO.

I agree that injuries and trades still need work, but that's not unusual. When you look at any sports text sim, injuries and trades have been two of the key issues for almost every one. Does anyone remember all the discussion about injuries in previous FOF releases? Or all the trade problems people had with OOTP a couple versions ago? Those are two things that almost always cause issues with sports sims. Of course, BBM is still in beta so I have hopes that it will be improved before release but I'm sure there will be complaints about both trades and injuries when the game's released.

I don't know anything about the wacky stats for minor leaguers. All the stats I've seen in the game have been reasonable, but I haven't really looked that close at minor league stats (or high school/college stats either for that matter).

Something I have noticed that I hope gets addressed (and I would post this on the beta forum if I could access it )...I'm finding it very easy to pick up top notch free agents right before spring training for cheap. With a small market team, my strategy was to sit out the regular free agency time and wait until the start of spring training. There are usually 6-12 guys that are 88+ overall who are no longer asking for big contracts. It's easy to sign a couple of the younger ones to long term contracts and fill out the rest of the roster with short contracts to solid quality vets. I was able to consistently win 100+ games a year while keeping a payroll of around 40-50 million. IMO, there shouldn't be that kind of quality sitting there before spring training (especially young talent).

[Ben E Lou]

My guess is that they are going to release it today or very soon, which is why they've started focusing heavily on bugs in the last 2-3 builds, rather than tweaks. From what I've seen of text sims, when release time is approaching, priority one becomes fixing major bugs and obvious things (like crash bugs, Los Angeles Angels, "I'd be more inclined to sign if {player who is on your team} was on your team," teams being listed as 5th when they really finished 8th, etc.) Game balance, stats tweaking and trade AI issues, while given a broad brush during beta, always seem to be addressed post-release. (How many contract tweaks has FOF5 had since release? How many times has Markus adjusted stats output in OOTP6?) It is actually a bit encouraging to see that in the most recent build a relatively minor tweak that I have been pushing for (not enough players getting into 160+ games) was improved. I hope Clay doesn't suffer any loss of goodwill/refusals to purchase because of the "public beta," but I fear he will. I've expressed my biggest concern privately to several people, and in a somewhat-veiled manner here publicly: that people to whom the more minute details are important will know of the imbalances in this game pre-release, and therefore wait to purchase it. The problem with that is that if those guys aren't giving feedback early in the patch cycle, some thiings may never get noticed. (Remember how long some things in FOF 5.1 took to come to light because people didn't play it due to one issue?) The normal cycle for a text sim purchase for me (and I suspect for many of you) is as follows:

1. Purchase within 48 hours of release.
2. Play for a week or two, not really expecting that the first career will be a long-term career, reporting bugs and imbalances along the way.
3. When approximate release date for Patch #1 is given, spend a few hours playing with a particular eye for bugs and imbalances, being careful to report everything I see.
4. Stop playing entirely until Patch 1 is released.

Depending on the fix list for Patch #1, I usually repeat this cycle for Patch #2 (including not expecting to begin a long-term career.)

Fact of the matter is this: FOF2K4 was the first and only text sim I've ever purchased that I didn't immediately begin a new career upon release of the first patch. Every single other game has had multiple restarts, because stats and team results are so radically changed by patches, that pre-patch records are often irrelevant.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Then again SD, it's that cycle (which I do recognize too well) that has driven me further away from computer sims and back toward dice-and-chart games.

If developers, large or small, don't stop releasing games with known issues, they're likely to lose me altogether.

And I don't believe I'm the only person who is heading in that direction. The days of me buying games that I know have serious fuck-ups are pretty much over, I've got too many games collecting dust because they were never playable.
(playable = issue free enough for me to enjoy)

[Ben E Lou]

Clay just posted this a few minutes ago over there (http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin...threadid=65019)

Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough

Baseball Mogul 2K6 is going on sale today at $19.95. Thanks for all the comments.

Instead of offering a BB2K6/BMO package deal, with all the passwords and other hassle of making that work right, we're keeping BB2K6 affordable even with all the new features. If you have any "extra" money, I strongly suggest you try BMO, especially after we update in the new couple of months.

It was a somewhat "unfair" beta test in that I don't think I was able to include folks like KennyBear on the list. But we got a good number of BMO players to spend time with it.

Clay



__________________
Clay Dreslough
Sports Mogul Inc.

[Bee]

Cool. I'll pick it up tonight if I can access the freaking site.

[Ben E Lou]

$19.95 ain't bad.

[Ksyrup]

I'll be buying it, if for no other reason than I liked the game way back when and it seems like Clay is finally bringing it current, in terms of what we all expect even the most basic text sim to be able to do. I have no problem encouraging the game's further development, even if I ultimately get limited enjoyment out of this version.

[Ben E Lou]

http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin...threadid=70485

Author Thread

Clay Dreslough Mr. Blog http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin...ine=1105133231 Registered: Jun 2001 Location: Ashford, Connecticut Posts: 1824 Baseball Mogul 2006 Baseball Mogul 2006 is now for sale by download (only $19.95): http://www.sportsmogul.com/orders/orderbaseball2k6.htm The CD-ROM version will be available for purchase near Opening Day. __________________ Clay Dreslough Sports Mogul Inc. Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged 03-15-2005 10:40 AM

[Sharpieman]

I'm on the fence with this one, I've always loved BBM back in the Golden Days of the franchise. I never really got into OOTP because of the interface and feel of the game. Hopefully this BBM becomes Moguls comeback edition. The 19.99 price is enticing, I guess I just need a little bit more convincing.

[Static Cling]

Downloading now..I remember the first BBM and actualy enjoyed playing that game...reading these posts have intrigued me to buy and play again...

[MizzouRah]

After we update in the next couple of months?

I'll wait until then. *sigh* I hate "must" release dates. Unless Clay is still working on bugs, a wait and see approach is definitly needed.


Todd

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

After we update in the next couple of months?

Todd,

Re-read that:

"If you have any "extra" money, I strongly suggest you try BMO, especially after we update in the new couple of months."

He's referring to updating Baseball Mogul Online there. The plan is to support Baseball Mogul 2006's release first, then to update Baseball Mogul Online. As I mentioned earlier, the time to give feedback is in the next couple of months, while he's still working on BM, rather than once he's moved on to BMO and FM.

[markprior22]

Has the issue with crazy trade proposals been "fixed" for the official release?

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

I'm on the fence with this one, I've always loved BBM back in the Golden Days of the franchise. I never really got into OOTP because of the interface and feel of the game. Hopefully this BBM becomes Moguls comeback edition. The 19.99 price is enticing, I guess I just need a little bit more convincing.

If you need someone to convince you to buy the game, then you probably shouldn't buy the game.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by markprior22

Has the issue with crazy trade proposals been "fixed" for the official release?

I'm downloading now, and I'll look at it. If it hasn't, it really isn't a big deal: just turn off "Computer Offers Trades." It will still trade AI-to-AI with this option off; you just won't get any offers. What's odd about it is that, from what I've seen, the overall trade AI is pretty good. I don't think I've ever accepted an AI trade offer in OOTP, either (or FOF for that matter in a non-house-rule career). I set my team up during the offseason with a realistic/believable level of depth at each position, and the only time I'd make an in-season trade would be one that I initiate because of a need for salary dumping, need to short up a position to make a stretch run, or a need to replace an injured starter at a position that I don't have depth. I'd much rather see Clay focus on other issues than AI-offered trades.

[Ksyrup]

I thought some people here were reporting crazy trades (as in the number of people being traded, not necessarily the relative values being traded) between AI teams as well.

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I'm downloading now, and I'll look at it. If it hasn't, it really isn't a big deal: just turn off "Computer Offers Trades." It will still trade AI-to-AI with this option off; you just won't get any offers. What's odd about it is that, from what I've seen, the overall trade AI is pretty good. I don't think I've ever accepted an AI trade offer in OOTP, either (or FOF for that matter in a non-house-rule career). I set my team up during the offseason with a realistic/believable level of depth at each position, and the only time I'd make an in-season trade would be one that I initiate because of a need for salary dumping, need to short up a position to make a stretch run, or a need to replace an injured starter at a position that I don't have depth. I'd much rather see Clay focus on other issues than AI-offered trades.

Good point...thanks for the feedback

[Static Cling]

well, I've started a season with the NY Mets, and so far, I'm already a bit dissappointed...I'm 25 games into the season and I've already loss to long term injuries, Beltran, Wright, Glavine, Benson, Looper....just doesn't seem right to me...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I thought some people here were reporting crazy trades (as in the number of people being traded, not necessarily the relative values being traded) between AI teams as well.

Ah, I misunderstood if that is the case.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Clay Dreslough

Aha. Well at this point we don't have a hard list of things that will be getting fixed in the patches.

If 10 people post saying "hey, this player cycling thing in the Team Roster screen is really bugging me", we'll probably find a way to improve it.

Clay

Sounds like the squeaky wheels will continue to get the grease with Mogul.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Static Cling

well, I've started a season with the NY Mets, and so far, I'm already a bit dissappointed...I'm 25 games into the season and I've already loss to long term injuries, Beltran, Wright, Glavine, Benson, Looper....just doesn't seem right to me...

SD, my point was I don't think much has changed since the last update, although I could be wrong. There just isn't much "beta" testing going on in those forums.

The post above sums it up, release it now - patch it later. Waiting a couple of months should allow another gander at this game.

Sorry, I just don't understand the logic of a rushed product. I can see it with a console game as the competition is fierce to get the game on the shelves first, but not in a niche product.


Todd

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Sorry, I just don't understand the logic of a rushed product.

I hate it, but it doesn't seem hard to understand IMO.

As long as people are willing to pay for it, ready or not, why not take the cash ASAP? Better in the developer's bank account than the customers.

And clearly some people are willing to keep supporting this sort of b.s. behavior, you don't even have to leave this thread to see proof of that.

As long as we, as a consumer group, continue to behave the way we do (basically, :"just can't wait to spend money on whatever the hell comes down the pike"), we'll get exactly what we deserve, which is to be beta testers for products with known issues at release, and we paid for the privilege.

[Bee]

Well at some point people who develop games for a living have to get cash flowing in or they go out of business. I don't agree with someone releasing a game with bugs that crash all systems or have significant flaws, but when the major complaints appear to be too many multi-player trades and too many injuries I really see no problem with releasing the game and addressing those types of issues in a patch if financially you need to do so. I'm sorry, but to me this isn't like when .400 Studios released their games that had significant features missing and loads of run-time errors, etc. We're talking about balance issues, not game stopping bugs.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I had a lot of fun with the beta and the purpose of a computer game is to entertain and I find in the current condition it entertains me enough for me to spend $20 on it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And clearly some people are willing to keep supporting this sort of b.s. behavior, you don't even have to leave this thread to see proof of that.

Originally Posted by Bee

... I really see no problem with releasing the game and addressing those types of issues in a patch if financially you need to do so.

I'm just glad that sports-sim programmers aren't doctors, mechanics, etc.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm just glad that s aren't s.

Fixed it for ya.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm just glad that sports-sim programmers aren't doctors, mechanics, etc.

Right...let's compare someone producing entertainment to someone who holds a life in their hands...

I think a better comparison would be a producer releasing a film with known flaws (although they can go back and do a director's cut). Again, if the film entertains me enough, I'd buy the DVD even if I find flaws. Case in point..."Blade".

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Bee

Right...let's compare someone producing entertainment to someone who holds a life in their hands...

Sorry, perhaps my point was too subtle.

I don't believe there's enough concern about product quality among developers / designers in general, and I believe the consumers deserve the biggest share of the blame.

I'm just thankful these guys aren't in a line of work that really f'n matters, that's all I'm saying.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Fanboy

Fixed it for ya.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry, perhaps my point was too subtle.

I don't believe there's enough concern about product quality among developers / designers in general, and I believe the consumers deserve the biggest share of the blame.

I'm just thankful these guys aren't in a line of work that really f'n matters, that's all I'm saying.

Don't you think that if it really mattered, consumers would act differently? In fact, doesn't the real world already reflect the relative concern of consumers of health care vs. computer games?!

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

SD, my point was I don't think much has changed since the last update, although I could be wrong. There just isn't much "beta" testing going on in those forums.

The post above sums it up, release it now - patch it later. Waiting a couple of months should allow another gander at this game.

Sorry, I just don't understand the logic of a rushed product. I can see it with a console game as the competition is fierce to get the game on the shelves first, but not in a niche product.


Todd

i dont agree on the rush product. they should of spent more time on it and release it on opening day.

a lot of people didnt beta test the game and there thinking the game is solid with no major bugs. i think that so unfair for them.

there going to be shock when they buy it and play it.

the good thing, it seems Clay is a great person and will support the game and update with patches until its perfect.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

i dont agree on the rush product. they should of spent more time on it and release it on opening day.

a lot of people didnt beta test the game and there thinking the game is solid with no major bugs. i think that so unfair for them.

there going to be shock when they buy it and play it.

the good thing, it seems Clay is a great person and will support the game and update with patches until its perfect.

Why would people be shocked when they buy the game? Do you really think this game is in worse shape than the typical PC release? I didn't see any show stopping bugs when I was running it and I can name dozens of games off the top of my head that constantly crashed or had major features missing when released. Getting bad trade offers and having too many injuries really doesn't seem that unusual for a typical game on release.

I do think it needs patching, but how many games have you bought that didn't need patched when released? Even if you're like Jon and you think games should be perfect when released doesn't mean this game is worse than the norm. That's the way games are released and no one should be shocked that there will be bugs in a game. If people don't want to deal with bugs and balance issues, they can always wait a few months to buy the game and see if patches fix everything. Of course, most games never fix everything so people who want perfection would probably be better off finding another hobby.

[Ben E Lou]

Bee, you're not exactly talking to the sharpest knife in the drawer there...

[LastWhiteSoxFanStanding]

JBMagic's point is a valid one and you are out of line with your comment.

There is no reason to rush the product to get it out the 15th. Why not wait two more weeks until opening day. Sure, there will still probably be bugs, but at least there would be less.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Bee, you're not exactly talking to the sharpest knife in the drawer there...

That's a pretty classless comment, SD. jb's trying to help make the game better, just like you. There's no room for personal insults.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Hammer755

That's a pretty classless comment, SD. jb's trying to help make the game better, just like you. There's no room for personal insults.

That's kinda what I was thinking.
Then again, I'm not sure if it was aimed at jbmagic or me at this point, so maybe I'm just being sensitive.
(Best I can tell, timestamp not withstanding, Bee had disagreed with both of us)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Bee

... so people who want perfection would probably be better off finding another hobby.

Umm ... I believe I made reference to that just a little earlier in the thread.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I hate it, but it doesn't seem hard to understand IMO.

As long as people are willing to pay for it, ready or not, why not take the cash ASAP? Better in the developer's bank account than the customers.

And clearly some people are willing to keep supporting this sort of b.s. behavior, you don't even have to leave this thread to see proof of that.

As long as we, as a consumer group, continue to behave the way we do (basically, :"just can't wait to spend money on whatever the hell comes down the pike"), we'll get exactly what we deserve, which is to be beta testers for products with known issues at release, and we paid for the privilege.

I do understand and I'll talk with my wallet. Maybe this is how it always is during beta testing, it just seems like there wasn't much interest to test the product except for SD and a small few. I'm sorry I didn't have the time to participate besides an occasional post, but it seems like everything was scattered with this release.

I hope patches ensue and I'll continue to keep my eye on its progress.

Time to check out the forum to see what people are saying about the product.


Todd

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Bee, you're not exactly talking to the sharpest knife in the drawer there...

i am really offended with that comment.

i just gave an opinion and i get insulted.

[Ksyrup]

You should only be offended if he was talking about butter knives. Steak knives are still pretty sharp.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I do understand and I'll talk with my wallet. Maybe this is how it always is during beta testing, it just seems like there wasn't much interest to test the product except for SD and a small few. I'm sorry I didn't have the time to participate besides an occasional post, but it seems like everything was scattered with this release.

I hope patches ensue and I'll continue to keep my eye on its progress.

Time to check out the forum to see what people are saying about the product.


Todd

same here, going to wait and see how it goes. Knowing me, probably will pick it up soon.

Usually i pick up sims game quick like ootp 6 i preorder, TPB 2005, i got first day it was release, etc

[RPI-Fan]

I picked up this game for the exact reasons Bee listed...

It will be a fun, easy-going experience (much unlike OOTP & Puresim... they are just very.. intrusive), that has a couple of minor, work-able problems.

I'll post here letting know what I think about it.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... I believe I made reference to that just a little earlier in the thread.

Jon, just so you know I don't disagree with everything you are saying. I think there's a line between the quality of a release and financial considerations (as I think you do). We might disagree to some extent on where that line is. I think BBM is an acceptable release and pretty typical of the industry. I think you'd like to see that acceptability change and require a higher quality. As a consumer I agree with that basic concept, but I also realize that there are other considerations to take into account. I don't want to see someone hold a release so long that they can't be a viable company and fold before any product is released. In an ideal world where that wouldn't happen, I'd agree wholeheartedly with your demand for higher quality. In this case, the product has already been advertised to be released and really has no show stopping bugs that I've seen. In today's climate I see no problem going ahead with the release.

[Young Drachma]

I'm really curious, but I think I'll probably wait a lil' bit before picking it up. I'm actually really interested in checking out Fast Break College Basketball, because I think it'd be cool to use it to create a Division 3 College Basketball League - well, with a few teams lopped off.

Anyway, I'll probably pick up Mogul as I've always been a fan and enjoy simming super fast.

[Arles]

Don't forget that publishing deadlines are pretty hard. If Clay was given a date by his publisher, he pretty much has to meet it. Still, given his comments to this point, I would expect any issues that may come up to be quickly addressed.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Arles

Don't forget that publishing deadlines are pretty hard.

Is he using a publisher this year, though? I thought I read that this year's version will not be on store shelves, etc.