This bugs me very much and I am not sure why

[Senator]

WE ARE HATED

[Easy Mac]

I think the problem is they can't reconcile why Vince Vaughn hasn't made a good movie since Swingers, so of course they'll be mean to him

Seriously though, its not like we don't hate foreigners over here. Maybe you missed the France sucks thread. We do our fair share of hatred too, so I don't think we should be appalled when people hate us.

[Senator]

Easy Mac, I can only respond to you this one way. (Clears throat)

The Marshall Plan.

Ps. I think Eminems next CD should be called this by the way.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Vaughn has really fallen off the map. Fallen hard. Swingers was a fluke it seems. So very, very sad.

Yeah, we covered this whole topic in the America hates the French/The French hate Americans thread.

I am an American. I live in Europe. Have been doing so for just over a year now. I have watched three separate anti-US rallies here in Brussels. (They happen to all take place on this large street I have to cross to get to the grocery store. Can't avoid it.)I speak no language other than English, so it's not as if I blend.

What America is doing in Iraq is very unpopular here right now. It's not all that popular with plenty of Americans back home. Sure, it's stupid for people in Europe to take out their frustrations on "Joe or Jane Average American" who has nothing to do with Iraq or Bush. It's incredibly stupid. Emotions are running high. People spout stuff off all the time.

Personally, I haven't really been the target of Anti-Americanism. Save for a few discussions with taxi drivers incidents are few and far between. Then again, whenever anyone starts to talk about it and complain about Bush, I agree with them. Not to appease them, but simply because I do.

[Senator]

Blue,

That is what I really wanted to know with this thread. Who lives "outside" of America and what is the perception? I hate just reading it in the news.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Ok. I can give you a little more on that, Senator.

First off, I work at US law firm here in Brussels. That being said, there are only a handful (less than 10 out of 75 or so) US attorneys here. We have people from all of Europe: Belgians, Fins, Brits, Irish, German, Austrian, French, Italian, etc. It's a good mix. Some of them hate Bush and are very much against a war in Iraq. They have no love for Hussien, but just don't think a war is justified. They are not, however, anti-American. They wont heckle random American tourists or go after a person just because they are from the US.

That being said, they are probably not representative with "Joe and Jane Average Euro." I, admittedly, don't have too much contact with people I don't work with. I see them at pubs, the street, stores, etc. but rarely engage them in conversation. That being said, conversations I do have with folk do tend to end up, at some point, talking about US/Iraq. Usually they are opposed to war. However, the conversations are fair and reasonable and not just about "I hate America(ns)."

The protests are a different matter. They are, typically, one big Anti-American fest. You have a collection of all sorts of groups. Some purely against war in any form, some against war in Iraq, some Pro-Palestine, some "euro hippies", and even, get this, Pro-Communist. There is a lot of that in these protests. Folks with Pro-Communist propaganda and a ton of Che Gurera posters, flags, t-shirts, etc. I think that's incredibly ridiculous, but there you have it.

I think it is true, however, that this impending war and the Bush adminstration's handling of the whole situation has soured US-European relationships and has likely tarnished Americans' image slightly. And there will be incidents of idiotic Euros spouting stupid crap at Americans just because they are Americans, just like there will be idiotic Americans spouting stuid crap at, say, the French just because they are French. There are idiots, and plenty of them, the world around. Most reasonable people, however, can be very much opposed to a country's foreign policy and still like (some of) its individual citizens.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Blue, very sensible post.

Being French and also working with many nationalities here on a semiconductor project here in Grenoble, France, I've found pretty much the same as you when discussing the USA/Iraq upcoming war.

[Tarkus]

It's really quite simple to me. Don't have time to go into detail now but I will give you two significant reasons: the New York Yankees and Jews.

1. The New York Yankees - It's the same reason so many of you hate the Yankees. Even though they play by the rules, they are bigger, better, stronger, wealthier, and seemingly do what they want. And you aren't and you can't, so you hate them.

2. The world is rampant with anti-Semitism, which means they don't like Jews. The American government, and therefore in the minds of many, the American people support Israel. Israel is a Jewish state and thus Americans support Jews. Hence this anti-Semitic crowd hates Americans.

Again, this is a tad oversimplified, but hopefully you get the idea.

Tarkus

P.S. And to say we hate Europeans as much as they hate us is silly. Prior to the current Iraq situation, when was the last time you saw rampant dislike of France or any other country displayed on this board? The reasons for the anti-French sentiment are recent and should be obvious. Europeans, especially the French, have disliked Americans for ages.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally posted by Tarkus
1. The New York Yankees - It's the same reason so many of you hate the Yankees. Even though they play by the rules, they are bigger, better, stronger, wealthier, and seemingly do what they want. And you aren't and you can't, so you hate them.

Tarkus

The Yankees don't tell the other teams how to run their franchise though, do they ? Or the league ?

Oh well, maybe they do at that...

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by fantastic flying froggies
The Yankees don't tell the other teams how to run their franchise though, do they ? Or the league ?

Oh well, maybe they do at that...

You mean you haven't been following the Steinbrenner and Epstein show?

Tarkus

P.S. On a more serious note, I don't see the US telling France, Germany, England, etc. how to run their country.

[3ric]

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
And there will be incidents of idiotic Euros spouting stupid crap at Americans just because they are Americans, just like there will be idiotic Americans spouting stuid crap at, say, the French just because they are French. There are idiots, and plenty of them, the world around.

This is true, as it always has been. One small thing making the situation worse is that the anarchism/militant veganism movement is something of a fad among European youths right now. It's "hip" being anti-establishment, anti-European Union, anti-American. I witnessed riots outside my own apartment two years ago during an European Union summit meeting. The sentiments then was more anti-Bush than anti-American, but the feeling then was the same as now - they protested because their friends did, not because they had given the situation any thought as individuals. They just jumped on the bandwagon and went along for the ride.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by Tarkus
It's really quite simple to me. Don't have time to go into detail now but I will give you two significant reasons: the New York Yankees and Jews.

1. The New York Yankees - It's the same reason so many of you hate the Yankees. Even though they play by the rules, they are bigger, better, stronger, wealthier, and seemingly do what they want. And you aren't and you can't, so you hate them.

2. The world is rampant with anti-Semitism, which means they don't like Jews. The American government, and therefore in the minds of many, the American people support Israel. Israel is a Jewish state and thus Americans support Jews. Hence this anti-Semitic crowd hates Americans.

Again, this is a tad oversimplified, but hopefully you get the idea.

Tarkus

P.S. And to say we hate Europeans as much as they hate us is silly. Prior to the current Iraq situation, when was the last time you saw rampant dislike of France or any other country displayed on this board? The reasons for the anti-French sentiment are recent and should be obvious. Europeans, especially the French, have disliked Americans for ages.

I think the Yankee analogy works. I have often thought of it myself.

As for us hateing Europeans as much as they hate us. No. It's not silly. It's accurate, me thinks. It's just like being a Yankee's fan or beingthe big, better school in a college rivalry. The little guys can be more vocal about things and get more excited over little things. The big guys just smile, pat them on the head, but at the end of the day you really don't like them too much more than they like you. You just don't feel the need to go on and on and on about it because the majority of the time you don't need to think about them.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by 3ric
This is true, as it always has been. One small thing making the situation worse is that the anarchism/militant veganism movement is something of a fad among European youths right now. It's "hip" being anti-establishment, anti-European Union, anti-American. I witnessed riots outside my own apartment two years ago during an European Union summit meeting. The sentiments then was more anti-Bush than anti-American, but the feeling then was the same as now - they protested because their friends did, not because they had given the situation any thought as individuals. They just jumped on the bandwagon and went along for the ride.

There are a ton of them. My girlfriend calls them pwet-pwets. They are in the US too. The young, most likely affluent "hippie-types" with long, unwashed blonde hair in dread-locks and the like. Spend all day protesting the WTO with their big puppets, the smell of weed wafting around them, only to end the day at the corner Starbucks sucking down lattes.

I saw one such fellow during a recent protest here in Brussels. He was in the parade, wandering around with a half-empty bottle of Jack Daniels in one hand and an Iraqi flag in the other. Uhhh... Yeah. Right.

[Alf]

Originally posted by Tarkus

P.S. And to say we hate Europeans as much as they hate us is silly. Prior to the current Iraq situation, when was the last time you saw rampant dislike of France or any other country displayed on this board? The reasons for the anti-French sentiment are recent and should be obvious. Europeans, especially the French, have disliked Americans for ages.

Should I say f**k you or be more polite ? I'm still wondering....

You don't hate Europeans or anyone else : you just ignore them. That's the way the average american joe is.

As for "France has disliked America for ages..." : where do you come from ? Mars ? Venus ? Ah, no, I see, you are american... Do you remember 50 years ago when American soldiers were cheered in the streets (in France) when they freed us from German occupation.....


Peace

[Cuckoo]

Originally posted by Alf
Do you remember 50 years ago when American soldiers were cheered in the streets (in France) when they freed us from German occupation.....

Perhaps a better question is: Does France remember?

[GrantDawg]

I'll tell you why this bothers me. My wife and I dream of travelling in Europe someday. I do not want to go (as if we'll ever afford it) and be attacked by every cab driver for being an American. My dream would be to get off the beaten path and spend some time in the homes of "Joe and Jane Euro" to get to really know them. Of course, if they hate me, I'm not going to get a friendly reception.

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by Cuckoo
Perhaps a better question is: Does France remember?

Well Alf, do they? Wouldn't seem that way to anyone here. And I've travelled to France for the past 20 years, and if you tell me there's hasn't been anti-American sentiment there during that time you're living with your head in the sand.

Tarkus

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
I'll tell you why this bothers me. My wife and I dream of travelling in Europe someday. I do not want to go (as if we'll ever afford it) and be attacked by every cab driver for being an American. My dream would be to get off the beaten path and spend some time in the homes of "Joe and Jane Euro" to get to really know them. Of course, if they hate me, I'm not going to get a friendly reception.

G-Dawg. Go to Europe. You'll be fine. Most likely you'll meet plenty of folks who either (i) love Americans or (ii) are just nice people and don't give a sh*t what your nationality is. I've travelled all around Europe. I have a ton of European friends. It's fine.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Honolulu_Blue
G-Dawg. Go to Europe. You'll be fine. Most likely you'll meet plenty of folks who either (i) love Americans or (ii) are just nice people and don't give a sh*t what your nationality is. I've travelled all around Europe. I have a ton of European friends. It's fine.

Ok. Buy us tickets and we are there.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally posted by Tarkus
Well Alf, do they? Wouldn't seem that way to anyone here. And I've travelled to France for the past 20 years, and if you tell me there's hasn't been anti-American sentiment there during that time you're living with your head in the sand.

Tarkus

I'll field that one for Alf. I honestly don't think there was any anti-american sentiment in that time. Not generally wide spread, anyway. What you have to understand is the average frenchman is xenophobic and dislikes all foreigners, not just americans !
It is also sadly true though that the anti-american feeling has grown lately, due to the US government stance. One can hear a lot of comments of the type "who do they think they are ?"

Also just as an aside, what is often perceived as arrogance from the french by most foreigners just comes from the inability of Joe French to speak the english language in any proper fashion...

[BishopMVP]

Originally posted by Tarkus
1. The New York Yankees - It's the same reason so many of you hate the Yankees. Even though they play by the rules, they are bigger, better, stronger, wealthier, and seemingly do what they want. And you aren't and you can't, so you hate them.

2. The world is rampant with anti-Semitism, which means they don't like Jews. The American government, and therefore in the minds of many, the American people support Israel. Israel is a Jewish state and thus Americans support Jews. Hence this anti-Semitic crowd hates Americans.

3. Anti-Capitalists. You'd be surprised how many protestors are Communist/Socialist/Marxist after these ideas have been proven utter failures wherever implemented. Even the group behind most of the protests is hardcore communist. America=Capitalism.

France is arrogant as a nation. They think they are better than all other cultures (as almost every culture does) and can't stand that America is more powerful than them. They want to be the country who ignores everyone else and does what they want, but unfortunately for them, they're not. It is this irrelevancy that pisses them off so much. To a lesser extent the rest of Western Europe does too (Eastern Europe still remembers living under Communism and how much better off they are now.)

[Travis]

Come on, the first rule we as Canadians learn when travelling abroad is to display a Canadian flag somewhere on our clothing or bags. I've had a lot of friends that have gone to Europe, have been mistaken for American's, then had the entire situation do a 180 once the people found out that my friends were Canadian.

Not to say I'm condoning the views and opinions or the experiences that many American tourists must go through, but the world loves Canadians

Either that or they know we have no weapons or anyway to make them do what we want, but that's not the point...

[sterlingice]

So much to say and do. Where to start:

Swingers was a fluke it seems.

I can see it was a bad movie, Favreau can't direct, and Vaughn can't act. Why does everyone else insist that this is some great movie. Crappy dialogue, stupid plot, and stupid acting are a bad movie. Just rented "Made" this past weekend. Very sad attempt at a movie, as well.

There are a ton of them. My girlfriend calls them pwet-pwets. They are in the US too. The young, most likely affluent "hippie-types" with long, unwashed blonde hair in dread-locks and the like. Spend all day protesting the WTO with their big puppets, the smell of weed wafting around them, only to end the day at the corner Starbucks sucking down lattes.

Didn't know there was any sort of name for them but Lawrence, KS is teeming with them. Most college towns probably are. I walked by a bunch of people holding a giant banner for peace on campus today in this godawful weather. Hell, not all of them are unwashed or disheveled but almost all are upper middle to upper class and engage in their pseudo-intelligent banter about this and that with no common sense or concept of the rest of the world. To anyone wanting to take them off our hands or just plain shoot them for violence's sake, I'd be more than willing to turn a blind eye. Then again, these people have no concept of the military and what they are saying anyways, just like those who looked down on Vietnam vets. It's a different world and these people just don't get it.

You don't hate Europeans or anyone else : you just ignore them. That's the way the average american joe is.

Speaking of getting it, some people still don't understand even after Alf put in very plain English why everyone hates us. This is the primary reason for hating us. At least if you are enemies, you are recognized, but the US just forgets other exist some times and that's even more insulting. End of story. You want to know why everyone hates us, just ask yourself how easy it is to find international news in the media here when something like a major uprising in Russia or some landmark event in China happens and it's buried in the news here behind some sex scandal or story about how we amuse ourselves with such mindless pleasures and decadence as reality tv or some computer story.

the French, have disliked Americans for ages.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I typically am) but haven't the French typically sided against the US in wars (French and Indian, and didn't they help the South during the Civil War) except when it was convenient to help us so we would weaken the British. Then again, I may be totally off base here: I don't know my history like I should and like many of you guys out there do.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by fantastic flying froggies
One can hear a lot of comments of the type "who do they think they are ?"

Just an observation here, at the rate things are going, I think that question may be answered pretty clearly.

I just hope the people asking it are prepared for the reality check that answer would bring.

[Alf]

Originally posted by Tarkus
Well Alf, do they? Wouldn't seem that way to anyone here. And I've travelled to France for the past 20 years, and if you tell me there's hasn't been anti-American sentiment there during that time you're living with your head in the sand.

Tarkus

First let me apologize. I don't want to be rude to anyone, and I think I was in my previous post in this thread.

Second, maybe it's because my family travelled from Spain in 1936 to escape from fascism under Franco and then had to suffer from German occupation again during WWII, but Americans have always been liked in my family. We do remember what your country "paid" for our freedom (many, many, many lives...). I went to see Normandy memorial this January with my wife. And I can tell you that the Normandy people DO remember.

I've been an exchange student at Rutgers for 6 months and when US students came to my school/university, we always welcomed them in friendly manner. Our school is working with many universties abroad (Rutgers, Alfred in NY, Montreal, Caracas, Limerick in Ireland, Danmark, Sweden, Spain, etc...). I've even shared my house with one of these students (on a fun note, he played TE at Alfred and was recruited for our school rugby team )

I tend to think like fff, the average French guy can't speak anything than French, so if you speak another language, that bothers him and he lets you know.

Peace

[vtbub]

IMHO, I'm getting the sense that the European countries that are against our position is beacuse they know they can get away with it.

For the first time in many years, no Eurpean power is a threat to each other or under threat from us or the old Soviet Union. France/Germany are trying to compete for who will be the big dog in the new Europe and want to flex some muscle.

I thing that on this issue, the French are wrong. I do think that there are issues that they have a right to pick a bone with us about, trade tariffs comes to mind.

The English are our closest allies because we literally speak the same language. Although some words might mean different things or are pronounced slightly differently, the nuansices are the same. We can understand each other.

France has the audience in Europe that deGaulle could only have dreamed about. They are going to test that power. I will still consider France a strong American ally despite the disagreements between our two governments on this issue. When the chips are down, we have and will continue do be there for France, and they have been and hopefully will be there for us if such thing is needed.

Democracies don't fight each other. We disagree on this issue, and there are more constructive things that France could be offering that would maintain the pressure on Iraq. But we are friends.

For those who hate us for what we are, look at the ideals your own country has and wonder to yourself just how lucky you are to be living in a society that can embrace different ideas, whether you live in Kalamazoo or Paris.

[AgPete]

As someone who has done a good amount of international travelling but still has much more to see, I'm a little frustrated that my nation's policies reflect on how people around the world perceive me. I've lived in countries that didn't like the U.S. military but had no problems with U.S. civilians. Even before the Iraq and 9/11 situations, I've come across plenty of Americans that didn't know how to fit in with other cultures and were often too stubborn, consumer oriented, or unwilling to accept other ways of living to make good friends with the locals. I've always been someone who could fit in with other cultures and didn't bring my own country's prejudice into the picture. My experinces come from Asia and Central America so I have no idea how it works in Europe. I don't think we need hip counter-culture in Europe to hate us, we're already doing a pretty good job at giving the rest of the world the middle finger.

[lynchjm24]

Have you guys not seen Old School. Sure it's all Will Farrell, but Vince isn't to bad.

[kcchief19]

Perhaps Vince Vaughn is on to something. Maybe the reason the French are upset is because WWI, WWII and the Marshall Plan don't quite pay off the 150 years of principal and interest on Lafayette pull the Hessians off our ass.

[Tarkus]

Originally posted by kcchief19
Maybe the reason the French are upset is because WWI, WWII and the Marshall Plan don't quite pay off the 150 years of principal and interest on Lafayette pull the Hessians off our ass.

Actually if it weren't for Wayne, Lafayette probably would have surrendered.

Tarkus

[Dutch]

In Turkey I get two different responses.

"Go home Yankee!!!" "We love Saddam!!!" "Usama is our hero!" "You F*&*ed us, America!!!" "Bush is the Devil and Turkey will never be it's minion!!!"

I get that almost every time at the local grocery stores and shops by none other than the local college kids. What do they teach college kids these days????

"We don't want this war." "Our economy will collapse" "You don't care about Turkey, You only care about oil."

That's what I get from the 30+ working crowd.

But you should read their newspapers, it's loaded with sensationalized heavily slanted crap! It's no wonder really that they hate the USA.

How can I get mad at them for being so jaded without any chance for the "flipside"? I can't. I just put up with it, I'll argue for a while, but in the end, it's useless. And plus the fact that Iraq, Iran, and Syria are neighbors, you just can't be sure who you are talking two. Talk to the wrong guy, get marked, and when the USA attacks Iraq, you don't want to be one of the guys targeted for retribution by "sympathizers".

Now I do get angry when Americans can't see the impending dangers and why we are here getting ready to put an end to this lunacy.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Tarkus
Actually if it weren't for Wayne, Lafayette probably would have surrendered.

Lafayette was not an agent of France, he was more of a mercenary.

"Lafayette first heard of the American revolt in 1775, at a dinner given by his commander the comte de Broglie. Inspired to serve the American cause, Lafayette managed to sign on as a major-general in the American army in December 1776. But although by this time the French government was sending covert aid to the Americans in the hope of securing French trade interests, it opposed Lafayette's plans. Lafayette, however, had meanwhile bought his own ship, La Victoire, in February 1777, and after many machinations and more rejected appeals to the government, the ship sailed from Spain on April 20, 1777."