Massive Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral

[JPhillips]

Terrible.

https://www.mediaite.com/uncategoriz...is-is-burning/

[JPhillips]

The spire just collapsed.

[QuikSand]

Hard to place one's feelings about this into any reasonable context.

[ISiddiqui]

This is absolutely soul crushing. And to be a result of work restoring the building is every more shocking.

[spleen1015]

Paris firefighters should use some flying water tankers.

[QuikSand]

Gruesome timing, but a very informative thread here:

Gregg Favre on Twitter: "After my last tweet, I got a couple DMs asking firefighting related questions about the #NotreDameFire.

I -like most of you- are watching from a world away. But if you’re interested in some profession specific things I’d note/be concerned of, you can follow this thread.… https://t.co/1iUPURHwJe"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Paris firefighters should use some flying water tankers.

News coverage noted that it was considered (as was trying to come up the Seine) but the weight of the water and the inability to keep it off the large crowd was cited as the reason they didn't try it.

(Yes, I facepalmed when I saw the Presidential tweet but it actually was an active consideration apparently)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Gruesome timing, but a very informative thread here:

Gregg Favre on Twitter: "After my last tweet, I got a couple DMs asking firefighting related questions about the #NotreDameFire.

I -like most of you- are watching from a world away. But if you’re interested in some profession specific things I’d note/be concerned of, you can follow this thread.… https://t.co/1iUPURHwJe"

(as the son of a firefighter) EXCELLENT link.

[bronconick]

Firefighters don't think they can save the building

[PilotMan]

I don't have any real personal ties to its loss. It's a tragedy to lose no question. I remember doing a report on it in high school in French class, but like most catholic churches outside of the architecture there's nothing that pulls me to it. As long as there's no human loss, it's accidental, it's simply a loss. There have been numerous human tragedies that we've missed along the way. This is painful, but not nearly so painful that we should lose sleep over it.

[JPhillips]

It's amazing to me how little of the scaffolding is even damaged.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I don't have any real personal ties to its loss. It's a tragedy to lose no question. I remember doing a report on it in high school in French class, but like most catholic churches outside of the architecture there's nothing that pulls me to it. As long as there's no human loss, it's accidental, it's simply a loss. There have been numerous human tragedies that we've missed along the way. This is painful, but not nearly so painful that we should lose sleep over it.

I'll be honest - it's hitting me kind of hard. I've only been there once (been to Paris 3 times though), but it was the summer I was 14 and was with my mom and uncle. It was my first international trip (European tour), and I remember being amazed at its beauty.

So yeah, significant memories tied up there.

[GrantDawg]

My wife and I will never see it...

[molson]

Imagine being hired to renovate an iconic 700-year old cathedral but you burn it down instead...

[Lathum]

Horrible loss for world history and another embarrassment by our president who can do nothing right.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

Imagine being hired to renovate an iconic 700-year old cathedral but you burn it down instead...

Seriously. What a colossal epic fail.

[PilotMan]

Trump is elected, Notre Dame burns .. coincidence?


God had spoken, let the church of trump reign.


This is about as accurate as anything else he takes credit for, so why not?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Horrible loss for world history and another embarrassment by our president who can do nothing right.

If you find it that notable, God help you.

Who am I kidding? If that bothered you that much, even God can't help you.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If you find it that notable, God help you.

Who am I kidding? If that bothered you that much, even God can't help you.

I realize we have become desensitized to Trumps complete lack of respect to the office, but it doesn't change the fact that that was an embarrassing response from the supposed leader of the free world.

[tarcone]

There goes my +10 happiness

[MrBug708]

During Holy Week too

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I realize we have become desensitized to Trumps complete lack of respect to the office, but it doesn't change the fact that that was an embarrassing response from the supposed leader of the free world.

I bet it was a white company that burned it down. Probably protestant. You know how those WASPs are. Nothing but trouble.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I'll be honest - it's hitting me kind of hard. I've only been there once (been to Paris 3 times though), but it was the summer I was 14 and was with my mom and uncle. It was my first international trip (European tour), and I remember being amazed at its beauty.

So yeah, significant memories tied up there.

I've visited 3 times, once went inside and enjoyed the "history". So sorry this happened.

[Butter]

Just went last fall, and really enjoyed our visit there even though we didn't go to the bell towers. I'm too fat to be hiking those stairs.

Was very sad for the people of Paris that this happened, a beautiful city with beautiful people. Look forward to revisiting after it is rebuilt.

[Jughead Spock]

Originally Posted by molson

Imagine being hired to renovate an iconic 700-year old cathedral but you burn it down instead...

I sense a Seth Rogen movie coming...

[tarcone]

Lots of bad blood with this Cathedral. Yellow vests want that $1 billion in donations. And I dont blame them. The catholics have plenty of money to restore it. They dont need the donations.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Lots of bad blood with this Cathedral. Yellow vests want that $1 billion in donations. And I dont blame them. The catholics have plenty of money to restore it. They dont need the donations.

Billion dollars weren't given for general use at the behest of the government, but specifcally for the restoration of the church. Doing otherwise would be a spit in the face of those who gave for that purpose. Seems to me a good reason to tell the yellow vests to go kick rocks on this one.

[Mike Lowe]

I was actually at the cathedral when this started. We were inside about 30 minutes prior to that. Absolutely crazy to be in the midst of something like that.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by tarcone

The catholics have plenty of money to restore it. They dont need the donations.

Weird phrasing here.


'The Baptists have lots of money, why should you give to a rural Church in Iowa to rebuild? Lets the rich NY'ers cover it."

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

I was actually at the cathedral when this started. We were inside about 30 minutes prior to that. Absolutely crazy to be in the midst of something like that.

I'm glad you were able to go in and experience it.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Yellow vests want that $1 billion in donations. And I dont blame them.

The $1B won't be enough to make them happy. It'll never be enough.

[tarcone]

Sorry. I hve a Catholic bias. But the Vatican coffers have Billions of dollars.
The point was that these people are donating money to an organization that is flush with money. Why not give it to someone who needs it?

[bhlloy]

I dunno - to me there are some uncomfortable questions raised by this that are a bit more nuanced than "the catholic church should just pay for it". Given the number of people in extreme poverty in France I do think a healthy debate on whether this is the best thing to spend a billion dollars on is a valuable thing. And I fully respect the right of people to spend their hard earned money on whatever they want, and it's entirely possible these people are already giving billions of dollars to the kinds of causes I'd rather see the money spent on.

To me, there's even more uncomfortable questions about the media coverage and the outpouring of grief about what is essentially a building, where no lives were lost. Compare it to some of the coverage of Grenfell, where certain media outlets moved past the massive loss of life pretty quickly and on to focusing on some of the negative stories, or the general apathy that I've seen today regarding Sri Lanka, and it doesn't make me feel great to be honest.

[molson]

You can't really tell people what they're supposed to feel sad about and what's supposed to move them emotionally. I mean, you can, but, it's a weird and unfair thing to impose moral judgment on.

I donate money to a particular dog rescue organization I have a connection to. I suppose each of those dollars could be used to help starving children somewhere. Almost any dollar I spend or save could have been used for some arguably "better" purpose, based on someone else's values.

Anyone who criticizes others for what they choose to donate or spend their money on should at least offer a full accounting of their lifestyle and spending so we can judge them in turn. If someone donates every penny they don't need to keep them alive to help starving people, I will accept their judgment and happily admit they're a far better person than me. Everybody else though, I don't think is in any position to tell me how I'm supposed to connect with the world, what's supposed to move me to try to make a difference, etc. At an individual level, we're all lucky to have anything in our lives that we're willing to make time and money and emotional sacrifices for. That's a gift, not something to judge someone for.

[bob]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Sorry. I hve a Catholic bias. But the Vatican coffers have Billions of dollars.
The point was that these people are donating money to an organization that is flush with money. Why not give it to someone who needs it?

France owns the church, not the Catholic Church.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by bob

France owns the church, not the Catholic Church.

Interesting. Thanks.

Do Catholic services happen there or is it strictly a monument now?

[bob]

The Catholic Church is allowed to operate the facility, but it is not a typical parish. If you ever go there, you will see it’s much more of a tourist / cultural site even if religious activities are going on there.

[21C]

I think that a lot of the yellow vest protestors were concerned with the size of the tax deduction allowed for donations to the reconstruction. It is 75% for donations up to 1000 euros, 66% for private donations above this amount and 60% for corporate donations.

See this tweet from the French Prime Minister, Edouard Philippe.
Edouard Philippe on Twitter: "Nous avons opté pour un système incitatif qui s’adressera au plus grand nombre : les Français qui effectueront un don pour la reconstruction de #NotreDame bénéficieront d’une réduction majorée de leur impôt surÂ*le revenu, de 75% jusqu’Ã* 1000 euros et de 66% au-delÃ* de 1000 euros."

There was a suggestion made by a former French Culture Minister that the government should decree that the cathedral is a national treasure to allow for tax deductions of 90%.

The yellow vest movement believed that the government (and the people) would be on the hook for a large portion of the reconstruction especially after they had been initiating a lot of austerity measures that had caused the original protests.

[Mike Lowe]

Back in the states now and have a moment to upload some pics. As mentioned, we were in the Cathedral about 30 minutes before the fire started. We have pictures of the construction site on the side of the Cathedral on our camera, so I'll try and upload those later too.

We left the Cathedral, walked around the side where the fire started, then walked around a couple of blocks exploring the area. When we came back towards the Cathedral is where the pictures start (have some videos too which I'll try and upload). At first, I thought it was just a weird fog or something.

We were the first of about 20 people on this corner, and a Detroit news channel called me to interview me for their 10pm news (I went to HS with one of their producers).

[Butter]

Thanks for the pics. What were you thinking after you saw it on fire after you had just been in there, and what was it like around the people there watching it?

[PilotMan]

Wow, Mike, that had to be a surreal experience.

[Mike Lowe]

Originally Posted by Butter

Thanks for the pics. What were you thinking after you saw it on fire after you had just been in there, and what was it like around the people there watching it?

It was definitely surreal; it did not seem as if it could be possibly happening. I'll be honest too that I was a bit paranoid thinking back "Oh shit, did I knock over a candle?"

I found the pics on our camera of the side where the renovation was taking place--the place where the fire started. I scanned to see if there were any hints of smoke or fire, but nothing at that point in time. But 2 blocks later, bam.

[Mike Lowe]

Originally Posted by Butter

Thanks for the pics. What were you thinking after you saw it on fire after you had just been in there, and what was it like around the people there watching it?

As for the people, it seemed a lot of Parisians just went about their day. They'd look at it, and just continue on. Not all of them though, as many just stood. I was like most tourists and just took pictures, but also tried not to "photo-gawk" too as I didn't want to be disrespectful.

It was really upsetting to watch because I initially--once it started getting really bad and the fire trucks weren't there (they left initially reporting there was no fire then came back)--thought it was going to completely burn down. That was really upsetting, and I could honestly feel what is probably best described as survivor's guilt. "Why did I, of all people, get to see this at the last available moment?"