Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[IlliniCub]

I generally like AEW maybe slightly better than WWE on a good day, the highs in AEW seem higher and it doesn't seem as sanitized and formulaic. However with that said I haven't watched new wrestling other than the WWE monthly ppvs ( which have been disappointing) in months. JR has been pretty annoying lately and has basically morphed into the reincarnation of his mentor Cowboy Bill Watts, I have pretty much given up on his weekly podcast, however I do enjoy the weekly podcasts of Arn, Bischoff, and Bruce Prichard.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

I generally like AEW maybe slightly better than WWE on a good day, the highs in AEW seem higher and it doesn't seem as sanitized and formulaic. However with that said I haven't watched new wrestling other than the WWE monthly ppvs ( which have been disappointing) in months. JR has been pretty annoying lately and has basically morphed into the reincarnation of his mentor Cowboy Bill Watts, I have pretty much given up on his weekly podcast, however I do enjoy the weekly podcasts of Arn, Bischoff, and Bruce Prichard.

At this point JR is unlistenable for me. It borders on elder abuse to put him on the air, and has for quite some time now.

I have such low expectations for anything WWE-related aside from NXT that it could be on (though isn't aside from occasional PPVs if the kid is home) & I'll be blissfully ignoring it until / unless there's a shocking decent to good 5-10 minutes.

AEW is strictly highlights only for me, and 99% of those are MJF promos. A weak roster overall for its size, the worst women's roster this side of ROH, and no sign of adult leadership anywhere in the organization.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And it went downhill from there.

Nonsensical.

Not in the sense of bad execution for the main, but from a larger strategy standpoint.

I don't know if it's a bad move but I thought it was interesting. First time I've really been surprised by something.

For those who missed the ending:

Streamable Video

JR is brutal, I feel bad. Schiavone is surprisingly good.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Schiavone is surprisingly good.

I'd say he's more sneaky-bad, as in it's not as glaringly obvious as JR.

Case in point, his mention that Hobbs (?) once broke Edelman's collarbone playing HS football. Thing is, there's a 7 year age difference between the two so either they had some interesting age rules in California at the time orrrrrrr ...

The worst part of the commentary comes when Excalibur -- the only member of the crew that might actually know or care about anyone on the roster under the age of 40 -- falls into "sit back and let them talk" mode. He's the one person who might say something interesting, useful, insightful, or accurate but he fades into the background for stretches :/

[RainMaker]

Schiavone at least sounds like he is interested. JR feels like he's just there. His "outrage" feels fake and I don't know if he's disinterested or just too old to do it. Did laugh at the "Bullshit" call by Schiavone.

Then again I have incredibly low standards for announcers. WWE is terrible outside of a couple folks and Josh Matthews is unlistenable.

[RainMaker]

Also, you didn't like the angle last night?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also, you didn't like the angle last night?

I think they handled what they chose to do reasonably well (hard for Callis and the others to bungle something that straightforward really) ... that they chose to do it with a company that has so precious little talent on their roster mystifies me.

As for their other big moment, I mean I get the coolness of the nostalgia moment and all but at the end of the day, the most talked about thing on the show (by far) has been the signing of a 61 year old man to a multi-year deal. When you're already getting a reputation for being The Ghost of WCW, not sure making a (hopefully) retiree a focal point makes much sense.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I don't know if the Winnipeg connection between Jericho and Omega (and Don Callis) should be overlooked here. All three are very close. As far as I understand it, Callis and Omega go way back, in that Callis gave Omega his first break in the business and saw something in Omega early on and helped with his development.

The friendship between Callis and Jericho also goes way back to the early 90's and I believe it was Callis that first really put Jericho and Omega together and also helped coordinate Jericho coming into NJPW to wrestle with Omega. I believe Omega and/or Jericho also factored into Callis getting a color commentary job with NJPW.

That all said, it seems as if all three have a ton of respect for each other and I could see a discussion between them about all working together to play a major role in the part of a new company.

Of course, there is the whole issue of Callis' role as Impact Wrestling Executive Vice President. I don't know if this means that we'll see Callis jumping ship whenever his contract at Impact expires or whether it means Impact will have a very open working relationship with AEW (or maybe I'm just completely out to lunch on all of this speculation). I know AEW may not want to be associated with the taint that is Impact/TNA.

Callis would certainly help AEW as far as experience in running a business, booking, etc. He helped book and run several independents throughout his career and I'm sure the experience at Impact would carryover (and with that said, apparently the booking and storylines at Impact have been pretty good as of late... nobody watching notwithstanding).

I think I'm most surprised by the fact that it took almost two years for this all to come to fruition. But yeah... called it?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I think they handled what they chose to do reasonably well (hard for Callis and the others to bungle something that straightforward really) ... that they chose to do it with a company that has so precious little talent on their roster mystifies me.

As for their other big moment, I mean I get the coolness of the nostalgia moment and all but at the end of the day, the most talked about thing on the show (by far) has been the signing of a 61 year old man to a multi-year deal. When you're already getting a reputation for being The Ghost of WCW, not sure making a (hopefully) retiree a focal point makes much sense.

It seems like Tony Kahn is in the "rising tide lifts all boats" mentality of wrestling. Will be interesting to see if he is correct.

Looked up the roster on Impact since I haven't thought about that company in awhile. The North are supposedly a really good tag team. Moose can work. And they have Gallows and Anderson if they want to do a BC thing. But the cupboard is pretty dry. The women seem decent and could help. Wonder if this is a way to bulk up both rosters on the cheap till they can get back to traveling. Little like the old days of swapping regional talent.

As for Sting, it was a cool moment and he looks good. But I have no interest in seeing him wrestle. His debut got a lot of views on YouTube and they sold a ton of t-shirts, so maybe they know what they're doing. Little surprised they did it on a night of another major storyline. Just felt like too much for one night.

[AlexB]

Just watched the clip of Sting - I’m guessing they were going for intimidating, but to me he looked like a lost old man wondering what was going on...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by AlexB

Just watched the clip of Sting - I’m guessing they were going for intimidating, but to me he looked like a lost old man wondering what was going on...

Well he is old. I really hope they aren't going to do a lot with him. If he's there to help get someone like Darby or Team Taz over, that's cool. But I really don't want this to become old TNA.

[Toddzilla]

The way Sting looked at one side of Darby's face for a bit, then looked at the other tells me they've got something in mind already for those two.

[RainMaker]

Darby unfortunately needs about 4 inches and 40 pounds.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kid watched (and therefore I watched) the NXT WarGames show on demand last night (he was studying for finals Sunday night).

On the whole, honestly, not bad. Not sure anything on the whole show was Great (or even Very Good) but nothing comically awful.

Dakota Kai doing the Great Sasuke spot was fun

Ciampa vs Thatcher delivered, and that was a pretty high bar of expectations for me

Lumis vs Grimes was better than I expected, but good grief I couldn't get past the Jimmy Garvin resemblance Grimes has now.

Leon Ruff = Cheesburger for me and I really never got completely past that. He's just a guy, probably filling a spot that would have gone to Lio Rush otherwise.

Priest has to feel like "one that got away" for his previous employers, one of the few I've seen who has actually improved from being Performance Center'ed.

How they can't figure out something more to do with Theory than this kinda feels like the other end of the Perf. Ctr spectrum.

In the main, I commend the way they avoided feeling like Cole & McAfee had to be involved in the pin. Dunne & O'Reilly were both damned good throughout, Dunne still being so relatively young (27) is just insane.

McAfee has already reached the point of being in the discussion of being among the best (not _the_ best, just in the upper echelon) of other-sport imports. Green, raw, you have to pick ways to let him look good but the athleticism and willingness to work to be respectable is obvious. I dunno what you do with him after this but there has to be something, he's too good on the mic not to be useful.

[RainMaker]

That Ember Moon move off the top rope was quite insane. Looked like one of the most brutal moves I've seen hit on someone in a long time.

Lot of risks in the show and seems like some injuries came out of it. But NXT doesn't put on many big shows so they do go all out.

Give me O'Reilly and Dunne in a feud please.

McAfee is great. I saw a comment that he makes a great heel because he seems like someone you'd be annoyed with off camera (bit like The Miz). Most heels are "cool" and you can't help cheering for them. He's just obnoxious. At some point he deserves to be on the main roster. Not really as a wrestler, but heading up a stable.

This was a great show even though I have such little interest in NXT these days. Just nothing storyline wise that I like.

[RainMaker]

Here is the Ember Moon move. Camera work and sound made it look so brutal. Never had much interest in her but that is a really great finisher.

Ember Moon with an all time great Eclipse #WarGames #NXTTakeOver pic.twitter.com/tPYVRILfMe

— Bui Club (@BuiClub) December 7, 2020

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hiromu vs Desperado was fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Done so freakin well.

[dubb93]

Sad news that Brodie Lee aka Luke Harper passed away. Apparently he had been battling a non covid lung condition and passed away at the Mayo Clinic per his wife on Twitter.

I always thought he could be one of the top dogs in Japan had he been able to go that route.

[molson]

Meltzer said a month or two back that his absence was a "state secret" that he only got half-answers on. Apparently there were other similar reports on twitter. Lee was very active on twitter himself but was silent since around October. Sounds like it was something he was struggling with for a while that was successfully kept under wraps.

[molson]

The conspiracy theorists are of course saying he died of COVID.

I don't think it's fair to question the family and accuse them of being liars over this.

But it does raise an interesting moral issue that could come up in another context. If a visible pro athlete dies of COVID, does the public deserve to know that, accounting for medical privacy concerns? When we're working through how to try to keep society going, balancing and mitigating risks, making a lot of it up as we go - are we entitled to know the real costs of the decisions on an individual level? Or is it enough that an athlete is simply another anonymous count in the COVID death toll, and that's all the information we can ethically have?

[miami_fan]

I don't know why we would be any more or less entitled to know about an athlete dying of COVID as opposed to say CTE.

[dubb93]

If it was COVID how would we ever know honestly?

EDIT: I guess my point is we have no right to know any of this unless the person or family decides we do.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Sad news that Brodie Lee aka Luke Harper passed away.

Awful news. He and I had exchanged DMs a few years back; he was a diehard Leafs fan. Seemed like a solid guy, and definitely knew his hockey. Heartbroken for his two young kids.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Cash Wheeler puts paid to wrestling "journalist" and the Covid story.
Believe what you will but this is more than ample for me.

https://twitter.com/CashWheelerFTR/s...408449/photo/1

edit to clarify: Wheeler reposted that on Twitter, it's from the (now) widow's Instagram account.

[RainMaker]

From all the tributes it seems he was a real good guy who everyone liked.

[miami_fan]

Seeing Goldberg making an appearance last night and challenging Drew McIntyre to a match has me wondering. What is the status of that deal the WWE had with Saudi Arabia? This seems like one of those matches they would have had in that alternate universe.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If you're not a regular NJPW follower this might lose a lot of its impact but, mercy me.

Not only did Jay White work almost certainly the best match of his career last night but he followed it up with the best promo of his life. I don't know what it actually means in real-life terms but holy hell what a promo from the standpoint of his character.

https://twitter.com/njpwworld/status...96991228874752

[Toddzilla]

wow

[molson]

Metlzer's newsletter had a few more tidbits on Brodie Lee.

He had been in the hospital since October, just a week or two after his last match. He was on a podcast right before that saying he couldn't finish one of his normal Peloton workouts.

He tested negative for COVID over and over again, which frustrated everyone. Because at least then, they'd know what they were dealing with. Both lungs just shut down and his system was quickly too far gone for a transplant.

They felt pretty early on that it was a terminal situation. His wife told the locker room most of this. That actually didn't leak, aside from an ominous hint here and there.

And there's a lot of stuff about him personally. Meltzer is great at these obits. There was one about Danny Hodge in the same newsletter. Just pages and pages of history.

Brodie Lee was a super wrestling nerd and actually had a podcast about one of the Wrestling Observer podcasts about 15 years ago. He communicated frequently with Meltzer, but Meltzer told him it wasn't a great idea for them to go to hockey games together and stuff. It also got into the whole decision making process about leaving the WWE. He was over 40 with a family, and was torn between the stable WWE paycheck and the desire to go out on his own. But he seemed like a guy that didn't have anger at anyone involved with the situation, he just tried to figure out his best path.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ugh

Because you know they aren't going to hold the line on price. And because you know the amount of content will rapidly decline.


Peacock Becomes WWE Network Exclusive U.S. Streaming Distributor - Variety

[miami_fan]

So it is now the WWECock?

I'll see myself out.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ugh

Because you know they aren't going to hold the line on price. And because you know the amount of content will rapidly decline.

Peacock Becomes WWE Network Exclusive U.S. Streaming Distributor - Variety

I also can't imagine they are going to keep the entire library of stuff on Peacock. For me it's not a big deal since I don't subscribe to WWE Network but I do get Peacock free with Comcast cable.

[Mota]

As a Canadian who subscribes with a US account, I'm not very happy. The Canadian WWE Network is a TV channel which is great for live PPV's, but bad for watching any older shows. You can also go to the WWE Network through a web page, but you can't use the App on any devices.
So it looks like I'll have to cancel my account and VPN a new account from a different country, not sure which one yet. My son only watches the PPV's so he doesn't care, but I enjoy watching old WCW and ECW stuff, and I'm often months behind on my WWE viewing, so it's bad for me.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Mota

As a Canadian who subscribes with a US account, I'm not very happy. The Canadian WWE Network is a TV channel which is great for live PPV's, but bad for watching any older shows. You can also go to the WWE Network through a web page, but you can't use the App on any devices.
So it looks like I'll have to cancel my account and VPN a new account from a different country, not sure which one yet. My son only watches the PPV's so he doesn't care, but I enjoy watching old WCW and ECW stuff, and I'm often months behind on my WWE viewing, so it's bad for me.

I was previously in the same position, although cancelled my account about two years ago. I believe I also had an American account, but what I was able to do was sideload the App on my Smart TV. It managed to work without any sort of VPN.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A rough read, but if you want to know more about what happened to Jon Huber/Brodie Lee (though there's still no medical explanation for the cause), here it is

https://cultaholic.com/posts/amanda-...iOc42OIOjPWIs8

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

A rough read, but if you want to know more about what happened to Jon Huber/Brodie Lee (though there's still no medical explanation for the cause), here it is

https://cultaholic.com/posts/amanda-...iOc42OIOjPWIs8

Terribly sad story. Nice to see so many people step up to help the family.

[BYU 14]

Man, that was brutal to read, so sudden and still no real explanation

[JonInMiddleGA]

From twitter ... Current 24/7 Champ @Rosenbergradio
has reigned as a champion in @WWE for more combined time than Dusty Rhodes, Jake Roberts, Jimmy Snuka, Vader, Jim Duggan, and
JerryLawler
.

[JonInMiddleGA]

KENTA just showed up on AEW.

Unclear how much "the forbidden door" is actually open so far.

Honestly, I hope it's a very small crack. Too much chocolate in my peanut butter / peanut butter in my chocolate if they throw it too far open.

[SirFozzie]

Tony said the forbidden door is open in the post show on the youtube./

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Tony said the forbidden door is open in the post show on the youtube./

But that's Greatest Nitro In The History of Nitros (Until The Next Nitro) Tony, so I think the jury remains out pending some more official word.

Plus we're still hearing that a not-particularly-noteworthy-sized TV deal is coming for NJPW any day now, so how much crossover can be done coherently still seems questionable.

I make no bones about it: I think very much is likely bad for both companies, as well as for the workers (unless there's just ridiculous sized pay bumps involved).

Prime example: I think MJF is head & shoulders above any U.S. young talent in promo skill, literally the only highlight worth watching on AEW for me often as not ... but I also don't know how he'd translate to the NJPW audience. El Phantasmo is over like rover as a heel there with a lot of similar traits BUT he's not as dependent on snappy word play as MJF.

If you want a reverse version, I'm not sure that promo Hiromu (who has been fantastic lately) ever makes sense to an American audience either. In a Japanese context Hiromu is amazing, but in another context it'd all seem 1000x too goofy.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Plus we're still hearing that a not-particularly-noteworthy-sized TV deal is coming for NJPW any day now, so how much crossover can be done coherently still seems questionable.

Is this the TV deal we've been waiting on? Because.....ehhh

NJPW announces deal with The Roku Channel

[miami_fan]

We're saddened by the loss of "Hacksaw" Butch Reed, age 66. Reed was a former world tag team champion who left his mark in rings throughout the WWF, WCW, Mid-South Wrestling, and countless other places. PWI sends our collective condolences to Reed's many fans and loved ones. pic.twitter.com/fQzl5Hsv5V

— PWI (@OfficialPWI) February 5, 2021

My very first memory of Butch Reed was him beating Ric Flair as Bruce Reed in the overtime of a time limit draw on the Championship Wrestling from Florida TV show. I can't find that clip but this one right here next on the list. Yes it was a bit problematic then and in 2021. Yes, a special appearance from the heels David and Kerry Von Erich. But that flying shoulder block followed the military press slam finisher? Ten year old me was trying to press everybody over my head lol. I see a few pics of him from Mid South and WWE. This was Butch Reed for me.



RIP Butch Reed

[JonInMiddleGA]

He was a solid worker for his era, a good heat machine to have on the roster.

Rest in peace

[molson]

I only knew him in the WWF (as a midcard heel), and I kind of liked him even though I was a young mark, because he was cool and never really did anything particularly dastardly - well, until he and the One Man Gang ended Billy Graham's career.

[molson]

Nia Jax with a unique selling of Lana's offense (need volume to appreciate)

WWE Monday Night Raw | USA | Clippit

[molson]

So the mother of Lauren Boebert - nutty Colorado representative, who met her husband when he exposed himself to a bunch of teen girls at a bowling alley - claims that Boebert's father is Stan Lane, who is also Boebert's mother's first cousin. Which I believe makes Boebert her own second cousin.

I'm just going to assume that's true. And want to point out that this is the era of Stan Lane we're talking about here.

The Most Fabulous Music Video of All-Time! - YouTube

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

So the mother of Lauren Boebert - nutty Colorado representative, who met her husband when he exposed himself to a bunch of teen girls at a bowling alley - claims that Boebert's father is Stan Lane, who is also Boebert's mother's first cousin. Which I believe makes Boebert her own second cousin.

I'm just going to assume that's true. And want to point out that this is the era of Stan Lane we're talking about here.

The Most Fabulous Music Video of All-Time! - YouTube

fwiw, this is a rumor that's been around in some form since like 2013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by molson

So the mother of Lauren Boebert - nutty Colorado representative, who met her husband when he exposed himself to a bunch of teen girls at a bowling alley - claims that Boebert's father is Stan Lane, who is also Boebert's mother's first cousin. Which I believe makes Boebert her own second cousin.

I'm just going to assume that's true. And want to point out that this is the era of Stan Lane we're talking about here.

The Most Fabulous Music Video of All-Time! - YouTube

I've always been impartial to this video being the most Fabulous music video ever...

The Fabulous Ones: Getting Swole - YouTube

Definitely nothing homoerotic going on there.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

I've always been impartial to this video being the most Fabulous music video ever...

The Fabulous Ones: Getting Swole - YouTube

Definitely nothing homoerotic going on there.

Good lord, there are SO many of these. I just watched one where they were sipping wine in a bubble bath. And another where they were hitchhiking shirtless on the freeway to try to get downtown because "that's where the girls are".