Greatest Catcher of All Time

tarcone · 03-24-2016, 02:24 PM

With recent passing of Joe Gargiola and his relationship with Yogi Berra, I was thinking about who the greatest catcher of all time was.

Is it Yogi?
Or Johnny Bench?
Maybe Josh Gibson?

What do you guys think? Catcher is an important position in baseball. Who is the greatest?

rowech · 03-24-2016, 02:33 PM

Tough to know about Gibson. It's Bench or Berra as the only real choices to me and don't really care who gets chosen of the two. (I would choose Bench). Piazza and Rodriguzez are tough to judge. Piazza is clearly the best offensively but defense is so important at catcher. Rodriguez is great but too many questions around him.

QuikSand · 03-24-2016, 02:34 PM

It's Johnny Bench.

Radii · 03-24-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

It's Johnny Bench.

^

tarcone · 03-24-2016, 02:45 PM

Being a homer, I would throw Yadi Molina in the discussion. Has there ever been a better defensive catcher? I doubt it. He is a manager on the field with a rifle arm.

Peregrine · 03-24-2016, 02:52 PM

I was reading something recently which talked about how Piazza's defense was never nearly as bad as his reputation was. Yes he had a weak arm but in terms of game calling and blocking pitches he was pretty good - so you have to make a strong case for him, with his monster offensive stats.

Solecismic · 03-24-2016, 03:02 PM

It's hard to argue against Bench, but I'd probably pick Gary Carter when he was at his peak in Montreal.

Atocep · 03-24-2016, 03:05 PM

Bench or Piazza.

Then the next tier is Fisk, Carter, Yogi, Pudge.

Molina would probably be the next tier with Torre, Munson, Tenace, Simmons, ect.

Molina had a 3 tear peak higher than those guys, but other than Munson, all had more productive years.

JPhillips · 03-24-2016, 03:08 PM

As good as Bench's numbers are, they might have been significantly better if he didn't have lung surgery in 1972. Both his MVP seasons were before that surgery.

Toddzilla · 03-24-2016, 03:19 PM

Johnny Bench. Now close the thread before anyone else embarrasses themselves.

digamma · 03-24-2016, 03:19 PM

Bench

Then Carter and Pudge.

nol · 03-24-2016, 03:29 PM

Jerry Rice had some pretty good hands as well.

PilotMan · 03-24-2016, 03:37 PM

Freddie Mercury then probably your Mom.

Logan · 03-24-2016, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I was reading something recently which talked about how Piazza's defense was never nearly as bad as his reputation was. Yes he had a weak arm but in terms of game calling and blocking pitches he was pretty good - so you have to make a strong case for him, with his monster offensive stats.

Not sure if it was this article specifically, but we brought it up in the HOF thread.

Mike Piazza Was More Than A Big Bat | FiveThirtyEight

revrew · 03-24-2016, 03:42 PM

Not having been a major baseball fan during Yogi or Bench's time, but looking at the stats of those mentioned here, it would appear there are three whose resumes stand head and tails above the rest. In chronological order:

Yogi Berra:
18x All-Star
13x World Series Champ
3x AL MVP
BA: .285
HR: 358
RBI: 1430
Threw out 48.61% of basestealers

Johnny Bench:
14x All-Star
2x Champ
2x NL MVP
BA: .267
HR: 389
RBI: 1376
10x Golden Glove winner
Threw out 43.47%

Ivan Rodriguez:
14x All-Star
1x Champ
1x AL MVP
BA: .296
HR: 311
RBI: 1332
13x Golden Glove winner
Threw out 45.68%

Pick your poison: Berra had more rings, Bench had more power, Pudge had higher BA. Looking at historical comparisons, it would appear Pudge had the better arm as well. Handling pitchers/calling games would seem to be the tiebreaker.

spleen1015 · 03-24-2016, 03:50 PM

Its Bench. No question. Berra is pretty close.

larrymcg421 · 03-24-2016, 04:01 PM

World Series rings wouldn't enter my criteria at all. That's an absurd way to compare two catchers.

Julio Riddols · 03-24-2016, 04:09 PM

Yeah, world series rings are probably the least valuable statistic in baseball specifically because of how little one player contributes to a team achieving that goal. It is a little more worthwhile to compare rings in football and basketball, IMO.. But I still hate that comparison when people bring it up. It takes so much more than one guy to win a title. In baseball it is really bad, because there are teams playing with payrolls that are several times larger than other teams and it is simply unfair.

For what its worth, I think Bench is number one, Berra and Pudge are right up there though.

britrock88 · 03-24-2016, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Freddie Mercury then probably your Mom.

This deserves love.

stevew · 03-24-2016, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by britrock88

This deserves love.

+2

lungs · 03-24-2016, 06:50 PM

Chad Moeller

Buccaneer · 03-24-2016, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

It's Johnny Bench.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii

^

^^

Berra second.

Young Drachma · 03-24-2016, 08:58 PM

I never realized how impressive Berra's career was until he passed on. I think you have to like him in this category. Piazza was never a good defensive catcher, but if you value a bat in the modern lineup, he was a gamechanger at the position.

I think Pudge was underrated, tbh.

korme · 03-24-2016, 09:55 PM

Johnny Bench then a tie between Joe Oliver and Eddie Taubensee

cartman · 03-24-2016, 09:57 PM

Josh Gibson

JPhillips · 03-24-2016, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by korme

Johnny Bench then a tie between Joe Oliver and Eddie Taubensee

WTF? What about Ryan Hanigan?

Dutch · 03-25-2016, 12:04 AM

I wonder where Darren Daulton would rank?

tarcone · 03-25-2016, 08:26 AM

I was considered Daulton as Piazza lite.

Ramzavail · 03-25-2016, 09:17 AM

I dunno man, Daulton had a couple of nice seasons but overall he hit like shit.
And he's on that infamous list of players that I like to keep track of. Sub .200 AVG, +10 HRs.

I'd rank him under "bat shit crazy". Remember that whole alien bit.

TroyF · 03-25-2016, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Being a homer, I would throw Yadi Molina in the discussion. Has there ever been a better defensive catcher? I doubt it. He is a manager on the field with a rifle arm.

Yes, there have been defensive catchers as good as Molina. (the three main candidates listed all had great arms and were managers on the field (Pudge, Bench, Berra) Beyond that, they also played offense at a very high level, something Molina didn't do until his age 28 season. Even then, he hasn't been on the same plane as those other guys.

For me it is also Bench.

I mean, I seriously thought about Tim Laudner. But I realized he never cracked 80 HR. If he'd hit those other 3 HR, I might have tried to make the argument.

Ramzavail · 03-25-2016, 09:31 AM

Tim Laudner is also on that list. Sub .200 AVG, +10 HR.

TroyF · 03-25-2016, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

Tim Laudner is also on that list. Sub .200 AVG, +10 HR.

Yep. During the World Series year of '87. He almost accomplished the subg .200 +10 HR trick 3 times. In '83, he hit .185 with 6 HR, just didn't get enough at bats to finish it off. In '84 he hit .206 with 10 HR. He only had 262 at bats. If he had 52 hits instead of 54, he would have hit .198 that year.

Despite all of this, in the '87 World Series he started all 7 games and hit .318 with a .444 OBP. He finished with a .944 OPS for the series.

larrymcg421 · 03-25-2016, 11:08 AM

Bruuuuuuuuce Benedict

CU Tiger · 03-25-2016, 11:19 AM

What no love for Benito Santiago?

I kid.

My favorite is Pudge, I even had a dog (Chocolate lab) named Pudge after him.
But Bench is probably the right answer.

Ramzavail · 03-25-2016, 12:11 PM

I loved that Benito Santiago card of him in his yellow Ferrari that he subsequently smacked up while driving like an idiot.

BYU 14 · 03-25-2016, 03:26 PM

Can't go wrong with either Berra or Bench and I don't really think one is a clear cut winner over the other. Berra better in every relevant stat but HR, but Bench regarded as a better handler of pitching.

vex · 03-25-2016, 03:51 PM

Pudge, but I grew up as a Rangers fan in the 90's so I might be a little biased.

DanGarion · 03-28-2016, 04:19 PM

It depends on how the HGH and performance enhancing drugs impacted Pudge's career.

03-24-2016, 02:45 PM	#5
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	Being a homer, I would throw Yadi Molina in the discussion. Has there ever been a better defensive catcher? I doubt it. He is a manager on the field with a rifle arm. __________________ Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15

03-24-2016, 03:08 PM	#9
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	As good as Bench's numbers are, they might have been significantly better if he didn't have lung surgery in 1972. Both his MVP seasons were before that surgery. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

03-24-2016, 03:19 PM	#10
Toddzilla Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burke, VA	Johnny Bench. Now close the thread before anyone else embarrasses themselves. Last edited by Toddzilla : 03-24-2016 at 03:19 PM.

03-24-2016, 03:37 PM	#13
PilotMan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Seven miles up	Freddie Mercury then probably your Mom. __________________ He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam

03-24-2016, 03:42 PM	#15
revrew Team Chaplain Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Just outside Des Moines, IA	Not having been a major baseball fan during Yogi or Bench's time, but looking at the stats of those mentioned here, it would appear there are three whose resumes stand head and tails above the rest. In chronological order: Yogi Berra: 18x All-Star 13x World Series Champ 3x AL MVP BA: .285 HR: 358 RBI: 1430 Threw out 48.61% of basestealers Johnny Bench: 14x All-Star 2x Champ 2x NL MVP BA: .267 HR: 389 RBI: 1376 10x Golden Glove winner Threw out 43.47% Ivan Rodriguez: 14x All-Star 1x Champ 1x AL MVP BA: .296 HR: 311 RBI: 1332 13x Golden Glove winner Threw out 45.68% Pick your poison: Berra had more rings, Bench had more power, Pudge had higher BA. Looking at historical comparisons, it would appear Pudge had the better arm as well. Handling pitchers/calling games would seem to be the tiebreaker. __________________ Winner of 6 FOFC Scribe Awards, including 3 Gold Scribes Founder of the ZFL, 2004 Golden Scribe Dynasty of the Year Now bringing The Des Moines Dragons back to life, and the joke's on YOU, NFL! I came to the Crossroad. I took it. And that has made all the difference.

03-24-2016, 02:33 PM	#2
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	Tough to know about Gibson. It's Bench or Berra as the only real choices to me and don't really care who gets chosen of the two. (I would choose Bench). Piazza and Rodriguzez are tough to judge. Piazza is clearly the best offensively but defense is so important at catcher. Rodriguez is great but too many questions around him.

03-24-2016, 02:34 PM	#3
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	It's Johnny Bench.

03-24-2016, 02:52 PM	#6
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	I was reading something recently which talked about how Piazza's defense was never nearly as bad as his reputation was. Yes he had a weak arm but in terms of game calling and blocking pitches he was pretty good - so you have to make a strong case for him, with his monster offensive stats.

03-24-2016, 03:02 PM	#7
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	It's hard to argue against Bench, but I'd probably pick Gary Carter when he was at his peak in Montreal.

03-24-2016, 03:05 PM	#8
Atocep Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puyallup, WA	Bench or Piazza. Then the next tier is Fisk, Carter, Yogi, Pudge. Molina would probably be the next tier with Torre, Munson, Tenace, Simmons, ect. Molina had a 3 tear peak higher than those guys, but other than Munson, all had more productive years.

03-24-2016, 03:19 PM	#11
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	Bench Then Carter and Pudge.

03-24-2016, 03:29 PM	#12
nol Banned Join Date: Oct 2003	Jerry Rice had some pretty good hands as well.

03-24-2016, 03:50 PM	#16
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Its Bench. No question. Berra is pretty close. __________________ Why choose failure when success is an option?

03-24-2016, 04:01 PM	#17
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	World Series rings wouldn't enter my criteria at all. That's an absurd way to compare two catchers. __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

03-24-2016, 04:09 PM	#18
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	Yeah, world series rings are probably the least valuable statistic in baseball specifically because of how little one player contributes to a team achieving that goal. It is a little more worthwhile to compare rings in football and basketball, IMO.. But I still hate that comparison when people bring it up. It takes so much more than one guy to win a title. In baseball it is really bad, because there are teams playing with payrolls that are several times larger than other teams and it is simply unfair. For what its worth, I think Bench is number one, Berra and Pudge are right up there though. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA Last edited by Julio Riddols : 03-24-2016 at 04:14 PM.

03-24-2016, 06:50 PM	#21
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	Chad Moeller

03-24-2016, 08:58 PM	#23
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	I never realized how impressive Berra's career was until he passed on. I think you have to like him in this category. Piazza was never a good defensive catcher, but if you value a bat in the modern lineup, he was a gamechanger at the position. I think Pudge was underrated, tbh.

03-24-2016, 09:55 PM	#24
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Johnny Bench then a tie between Joe Oliver and Eddie Taubensee

03-24-2016, 09:57 PM	#25
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Josh Gibson __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

03-25-2016, 12:04 AM	#27
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I wonder where Darren Daulton would rank?

03-25-2016, 08:26 AM	#28
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	I was considered Daulton as Piazza lite. __________________ Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15

03-25-2016, 09:17 AM	#29
Ramzavail College Starter Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Strong Island, NY	I dunno man, Daulton had a couple of nice seasons but overall he hit like shit. And he's on that infamous list of players that I like to keep track of. Sub .200 AVG, +10 HRs. I'd rank him under "bat shit crazy". Remember that whole alien bit.

03-25-2016, 09:31 AM	#31
Ramzavail College Starter Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Strong Island, NY	Tim Laudner is also on that list. Sub .200 AVG, +10 HR.

03-25-2016, 11:08 AM	#33
larrymcg421 Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Georgia	Bruuuuuuuuce Benedict __________________ Top 10 Songs of the Year 1955-Present (1976 Added) Franchise Portfolio Draft Winner Fictional Character Draft Winner Television Family Draft Winner Build Your Own Hollywood Studio Draft Winner

03-25-2016, 11:19 AM	#34
CU Tiger Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Backwoods, SC	What no love for Benito Santiago? I kid. My favorite is Pudge, I even had a dog (Chocolate lab) named Pudge after him. But Bench is probably the right answer.

03-25-2016, 12:11 PM	#35
Ramzavail College Starter Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Strong Island, NY	I loved that Benito Santiago card of him in his yellow Ferrari that he subsequently smacked up while driving like an idiot.

03-25-2016, 03:26 PM	#36
BYU 14 Coordinator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The scorched Desert	Can't go wrong with either Berra or Bench and I don't really think one is a clear cut winner over the other. Berra better in every relevant stat but HR, but Bench regarded as a better handler of pitching.

03-25-2016, 03:51 PM	#37
vex Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tulsa	Pudge, but I grew up as a Rangers fan in the 90's so I might be a little biased.

03-28-2016, 04:19 PM	#38
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwest	It depends on how the HGH and performance enhancing drugs impacted Pudge's career. __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

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