See a House Built (from the 'inside') - A Real Life Story

[mhass]

Read along as my family and I build a new home. I'll put as much or as little detail here as people would like.

Ground Rules
I haven't asked anyone involved with this for their permission to record this publicly. For that reason, I'll be using some aliases. I will respond to every question as best I can, but reserve the right not to answer them publicly for the same reason. I would appreciate it if those of you who know me or the details I leave out to not post them since I may be omitting them for specific reasons. Other than that, we're wide open.

Background
At the risk of boring everyone in the first post, I'm going to be as brief as I can here. I moved back to this area after several years of traveling around with one of the largest construction companies in the country. I was months from marriage and, for many reasons, found my current job to be a good fit for the two of us. We bought a two bedroom 1950's ranch and basically gutted the thing, rebuilding it to our exact wants. I had the time, vision and desire to do a lot of the work myself. In the end we had what we considered to be the perfect house.

BUT... Laura got pregnant in what seemed like a matter of hours after our honeymoon and her family visits us a great deal so two bedrooms quickly seemed pretty small. At that time, my parents, who lived nearby, were building a new house for themselves and they encouraged us to buy there four bedroom house. So one year after our wedding, we moved into our second home, the house I grew up in.

However, this house is not 'us' in the way the other was. The house is plenty big, but is probably too big. There is a formal living room that we never set foot in and a formal dining room we use about four times a year. We talked about major remodeling again, but with two kids now, I don't have the time or energy to take on the amount of work we put in to the last house. Additionally, the location of this house is a little farther from the city center which bugs my wife a bit. She likes the energy of the city and we are in an area that can only be considered suburban.

Going through some old school papers of mine, we have found sketches of houses and floor plans as far back as 8th grade. It has always been a dream to design my own house and I am constantly thinking things like "If I ever build a house, I'll make sure it has..." So the idea of building has been of interest to both Laura and I since the day we moved into our current house.

I work for a construction company whose parent company is a developer, namely a residential subdivision developer. About a year ago, they developed a new neighborhood very near our house on a nice piece of land with a lake and very close to my office. We considered buying a lot there, but couldn't get excited about it and it was equally or more suburban than our current house.

Well this year, they were delected as the developer for 16 surplus acres of land that a Civil War-era cemetary was looking to sell since they had 300 years of room and were financially strained. This is land a block from my old high school, four blocks from a grocery store, across the street from a major local hospital - in short, urban. Until this sale, it was set aside (largely for tax purposes I think) as a 'tree farm' or 'tree preserve' so is heavily wooded - quite a rarity inside a city. And, for those of you worried about it, you can't even see the graves from this land. It's separated by a huge ravine and acres of forest - more extra cemetary land. Anyway, we prayerfully considered the impact of moving and agreed this seemed like a perfect fit for us: location for her, a blank canvas for me and, we found out later, some very good friends moving into an older house about two blocks away.

I won't bore you with the details of the development itself, but once it appeared to be a done deal and was going to happen, I put the word out to the chiefs here that I was interested in buying a lot. One other person had requested one before me, so I was given second choice of all the lots and selected a nice half-acre lot on the outside of a curve in the street. My driveway will be very close to the yellow circle on this picture:

You can see how thick the trees are for the middle of the city. The road bends around to the left here and ends. The hospital is through the trees to the right and my old high school football stadium is straight through the trees, across their tennis courts and one street. Friday nights will be cool! The cemetary is sort of behind this and to the left. If I get the whole list and remember to, I'll post some of the famous names buried there.

Development progress
As you can see, they've got the trees down in the roadway. That's about it thus far. They're hoping to have streets, sewer and water in by this September. That's when houses will start going up. Being on the inside of both the development and the construction will make this interesting I think. We'll see.

Coming soon:
Selecting the builder
The first meeting

Later:
The blueprints
'Siting' the house

[sterlingice]

Cool idea. While I'm still a few years off from having the money to even start thinking about a home, it should be an interesting read.

SI

[Gary Gorski]

Great idea for a dynasty - Im very interested in this read b/c I have always wanted to build my own home as well

[Radii]

This should be fun to follow. Good idea.

[Masked]

Two quick points

1) I will stop reading if you ever post another picture of a red circle on a green backgroud.

2) Omerta restarts in 3 days -- build fast


Good luck!

[mhass]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Cool idea. While I'm still a few years off from having the money to even start thinking about a home, it should be an interesting read.

SI

Don't think money isn't an issue with me. I'm sure that will be a point of discussion in this. There WILL be a budget for this house and there WILL be things I want that don't make it in to the final house. This house is intended to be slightly smaller than the house we're in and more energy efficient on less land with a tax abatement. Hopefully that helps financially.

Originally Posted by Masked

Two quick points

1) I will stop reading if you ever post another picture of a red circle on a green backgroud.

2) Omerta restarts in 3 days -- build fast

Good luck!

I set the circles to yellow.

[Celeval]

Extremely interested in this read. Good luck.

[RPI-Fan]

What state/area/city is this in (unless I missed it in the first post?)?

~rpi-fan

[mhass]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

What state/area/city is this in (unless I missed it in the first post?)?

~rpi-fan

Western Illinois. Straight west of Chicago, on the Mississippi.

[mhass]

Selecting a builder
As I mentioned earlier, we ended up where we are because my parents built a house a few years ago. They were thrilled with their builder's work and he also happens to be a partner with our parent company in several real estate deals. He builds very nice, very custom, very high-end homes and, is an equity partner in this development. So, you say, done deal right? Wrong.

First and foremost, I'm not sure I can afford a builder of his caliber. His reputation is as the best, but I know you pay for that reputation. Secondly, he has all the work he needs and a more 'hungry' builder will, I think, give me a better pricing structure and (I hope) some more attention. Third, and this sounds petty but it's still relevant, I got the impression that he assumed I would use him all along and that turned me off. Last, I'm still a rebellious teenage at heart so I'm out to prove I can do it different, better, faster than my dad. Just kidding. Sort of.

So I began asking around, very casually, about builders before anyone knew I was thinking of building. I wanted a builder who worked in the exact city I'm in so they knew the Building Codes, inspectors, permit process, etc. I also, as I said, was looking for someone somewhat 'hungry' for new work who would appreciate my job.

I started by asking some people in the local Homebuilder's Association (NAHB) their opinions. They won't ever throw one of their own under the bus, so you can't expect to hear bad things from them. But they were very candid when I asked questions they could answer in the positive (e.g., "How long has X been active in your organization?" or "Does X build custom homes in my city?")

Second, I went on the "Parade of Homes" that they put on. It's basically a hundred or so houses that are finished or mostly finished that builders open up and for $5 per person you can tour them all. It's great for several reasons, but mostly you can see the workmanship of each builder and the level of homes they build while getting ideas for your own house. Best $10 I'll spend in this whole ordeal, I'm sure. I concentrated on the homes in my city since I wanted a builder that worked here. That narrowed my list down quite a bit.

Once I got that far, I asked around to people who would know. An ex-neighbor who built a new house, a cousin who put on an addition, the plumber who did some work for me and works in a lot of new houses, my parents' landscaper, and on and on. And actually, I told my cousin while he was in mid-construction to mention to his builder that I was looking to build - mostly to assure him of some good service. His builder was the same company that built the ex-neighbor's house so I went to see them both.

Here is the #1, most important, immutable law of new home builder satisfaction: finish carpentry trumps all else. What I mean by that is that even if you have been treated fairly on changes (which you must be) and have perfectly straight and vertical walls (which you should have) and you basement walls don't leak (which they shouldn't), if your miter joints pull apart or your crown molding isn't tight to the ceiling or your baseboard gaps off the wall, your house will look crummy and cheap. Finish carpentry is what you notice every day once you move in and it can both create and cover a multitude of sins. Builders know this and will try to use caulk to fill in these gaps if they're noticeable. Watch this because it, obviously, masks a problem and also creates a perpetual maintenance item since caulk will shrink over time. Quite honestly, if I had to choose between good finish carpentry and an honest builder, I'd choose not to build.

Anyway, I went to look at these two homes, with a careful eye on finish carpentry. Both were very nice and the whole house project was exceptional. The firm that built it is owned by two youngish guys - one who manages all the 'rough' work (framing walls, sheathing the roof and floors, hanging drywall, etc.) and the other who is a trim carpenter. I was very impressed.

The ex-neighbor spoke very highly of the guys that built it, even going so far as to say she and her husband "had a lot of fun" in the process. That's nearly unheard of. Score a big point for these two who I'll call New Guy Construction. My cousin, still in the middle of his addition, had a weak endorsement, but asked to hold off on final judgement until he had paid the last bill - a fair request.

But I had seen enough and heard enough to make contact with New Guy and set up a meeting. In the meantime, I got several more positive comments about them and decided that unless they pissed me off at the meeting, I'd give them the shot. Even if things went horribly wrong with cuz, I'd heard good things. We were going ahead.

[mhass]

The first meeting

As I said before, I was basically going in to the meeting with the intention of telling New Guy that I wanted them to build my house. I wanted the wife to meet them and make sure they weren't blithering idiots. They aren't.

Amos is kind of the front man for them and he did most of the talking. We met at a third-party draftsman's office. We'll call him Jimmy. Jimmy has the job of taking my sketches, notes, magazine articles and comments and turning them into the blueprints New Guy needs to actually build the thing. I'm not sure what this is going to cost, but the fact that he's not an actual architect means it will be cheaper than a full-fledged custom design.

Jimmy has the ability to pull the hard-to-explain wants out of people wanting to build, but I have some pretty clear ideas since I've been thinking about this since junior high. Laura does too, but hers are more a product of using our current house and finding inefficiencies and annoyances. Anyway, Jimmy is quite competent, but I don't plan on using the skills that earned him his high recommendations.

As it turns out, New Guy is building the house next to ours (left of the circle in the picture above and the folks that got first choice of lots) and we discussed some of the synergies they will realize by working in side-by-side lots. There are many, but it makes it much easier to keep subcontractors around if they have twice as many places to work. Even better, New Guy is going to buy the lot to the OTHER side of our lot and so could be working in three places in a row. This pleases me. HINT: managing a contractor is all about mitigating excuses. I am one and know this. With three places to work, I will literally be in the middle of New Guy's entire summer schedule. No excuses like "We were busy somewhere else" or "Didn't see that the electrician wasn't there today."

We got to see what Jimmy had drawn up for our future next door neighbor (who happens to be our family physician, Dr. C, and his wife and two kids) and it will be a nice complement to ours - two story, traditional, brick facade, side-load garage. Dr. C's garage will face our house which means we'll have his driveway between us. This is good because local side-lot requirements say that the first person in can build eight feet off the property line and the second person 12 for a total of 20' minimum between houses. But since he will have the driveway on the side of our mutual lot line, I'll get the eight feet setback, making it much easier to fit to the contours of my lot.

So we walked through the sketches I brought and Jimmy asked a lot of questions. I, in turn, asked Amos and Ike a lot of questions. Amos answered most of them, but I found myself valuing Ike's opinions more. I think he's too used to Amos answering for him. We'll see how this plays out when things get busy. Regardless, they had good answers to all of our questions and concerns.

Jimmy kept trying to 'improve' on my plan which annoyed me a bit. I realize he was trying to help, but I'm pretty sure of what I want. And, for some reason, he kept trying to add bathrooms everywhere. I think one per floor for public use is plenty.

We looked briefly through catalogs of basic things like exterior doors and shingles, but we're a long ways from needing decisions on those. We closed the meeting by Jimmy saying that he was "swamped" and that it would be a while before he had a draft of our plans. This was February so we had time. I just want to be ready when they start Dr. C's house next door. We know that won't be until September at the earliest.

Afterwards, Laura said she was very comfortable with these guys and was finally getting excited since we were close to something tangible. I agreed. It was, indeed, exciting.

[StanGunner]

This caught my interest. It's always rewarding to see how other people make out in these situations. I had a house built 8 years ago. We went with a modular and were very happy with it and now we are doing some remodeling on our own since our tastes have changed and the kids are out. Good luck and keep doing research and asking questions.

[mhass]

Two fast updates:

1. I spoke with Amos recently and he believes that Jimmy began our drawings this week. He relayed to me that he is pounding on Jimmy to do ours because he desperately wants to start ours with Dr. C's. This is good.

2. Our Exec. VP told me that the city is considering putting this development in an Enterrpise Zone. These are fantastic for people building because they waive all sales taxes on materials. Depending on the area, that obviously saves 3-6 percent on the cost of the home. So you can buy the home 3-6 percent cheaper or buy 3-6 percent more home. This too is good.

[JAG]

Very interesting read mhass. I'll be following your dynasty with interest since my wife has been dying to build her own home about as long as you have (and I woulnd't mind doing so myself). One question so far if you care to elaborate: what kind of questions did you ask the builders when you met with them?

Best of luck to you on the process.

[mhass]

Originally Posted by JAG

One question so far if you care to elaborate: what kind of questions did you ask the builders when you met with them?

I probably messed up a little on this since I went in to that meeting under the assumption that I would hire them. They, of course, did not know this so I was not asking questions about their qualifications, experience or other 'interview' type things. The only 'tough' questions were ones like "Can you start as soon as we're ready and keep working on it until it's done?" and "What experience do you have with 'wired' homes structured wiring?" They answered those types with the what-you-want-to-hear responses. Bleh. We asked more technical or house-specific questions. Here are a few from my notes before the meeting. If you're interested in their answer to any of these, let me know.

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.

1a. Does exposing the sill plate [basically, sticking the top of the foundations out of the ground] 18 or 24 inches help pest control?

2. Give me your opinion on geothermal heat/cooling. Cost effective? Payback time? Maintenance? Local service people? Can it be zoned?

3. If the city allows, what size water service do you like to use? What if there is a lawn sprinkler system?

4. I'm not thrilled with the trend of very high ceilings. Any advantages beyond aethestics? Cost impact, generally?

5. Who is our daily, on-demand person of contact once we start?

6. Can we contract for some things ourselves? [It is not uncommon for the homeowner to buy carpet/flooring, painting and landscaping on their own. Also, since I was for a construction company, I get some pretty favorable pricing on things like concrete and crushed rock. I could potentially dig my own basement too.]

7. I'm more interested in having doors that keep out cold/hot air and bugs than ones that look pretty. How does that affect our choices of doors?

8. Is stucco or the synthetic equivalents feasible in this area?

9. Do people build wood-burning fireplaces anymore?

10. Can you install a skylight that won't leak in 3 years?

11. If we build a back porch, is that better to be on-grade or over a basement?

12. Will you buy my lot so I can fold that cost into my mortgage?


I'm sure more came up but I can't recall any at the moment. As they come to me, I'll post them. Thanks for the questions. I hope you don't have to build soon, JAG.

[Cap Ologist]

Are you going to have an Omerta Control Center?

[mhass]

Originally Posted by Cap Ologist

Are you going to have an Omerta Control Center?

And a tunnel to the river for moonshine runs.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by mhass

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.

1a. Does exposing the sill plate [basically, sticking the top of the foundations out of the ground] 18 or 24 inches help pest control?

7. I'm more interested in having doors that keep out cold/hot air and bugs than ones that look pretty. How does that affect our choices of doors?

12. Will you buy my lot so I can fold that cost into my mortgage?


I'm sure more came up but I can't recall any at the moment. As they come to me, I'll post them. Thanks for the questions. I hope you don't have to build soon, JAG.

Heh, you and me both.

I know pests are a big concern of Danielle as well (I guess termites aren't a concern in the Twin Cities though, which is nice), so I'd be interested to hear the answers for 1, 1a, and 7. 12. struck me as an unusual request (at least without having done any research on it, I would never hvae thought to ask it), so I'd be interested to hear the response for that one as well.

Those would be my primary ones, but if you want to share the others as well, I'd be interested to read them. I like learning about the process...although again, I don't hope to use it for at least 5+ years.

[mhass]

Originally Posted by mhass

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.

Several things. One, they caulk every first-floor sill (the flat piece of wood at the bottom of a wall) where it meets the slab. Two, they put a vapor barrier (the Tyvek you may have seen on any new house) on the outside and another layer (think Visquine) on the inside. Three, in more 'pesty' areas, they treat the soil before they start. Four, they avoid covering any basement walls until they have time to settle and crack a little so they can patch/caulk/seal any potential openings. Five, they spray the house as soon as it's 'dry' (weather tight) to kill anything that wandered in while it was open to the enviornment. The first one does most of the work though.

Originally Posted by mhass

1a. Does exposing the sill plate [basically, sticking the top of the foundations out of the ground] 18 or 24 inches help pest control?

Yes. The more the better since people tend to get large build-ups of mulch in the planting beds outside their house. This is THE WORST thing for pest infestations since the rotting wood attracts bugs and they are right against the house, above that sill plate line. Raising the foundation helps.

Originally Posted by mhass

2. Give me your opinion on geothermal heat/cooling. Cost effective? Payback time? Maintenance? Local service people? Can it be zoned?

Wouldn't build a house without it. They said that the last house they finished (larger than ours will be) got a guarantee from the geothermal company that they would not pay more than $160 THIS YEAR in heating costs. They payback is about six or seven years. It is easier to zone though I don't think I got an explanation why. Maintenance is the same - just change the filter every month. Filters are standard ones available at Home Depot.

Originally Posted by mhass

3. If the city allows, what size water service do you like to use? What if there is a lawn sprinkler system?

Not smaller than 1 3/4".

Originally Posted by mhass

7. I'm more interested in having doors that keep out cold/hot air and bugs than ones that look pretty. How does that affect our choices of doors?

That takes us out of the French door category and steers us away from aluminum and wood doors. Steel and fiberglass seal tighter because they have less tendency to warp. There are gobs of doors available in steel and fiberglass and some companies even sell fiberglass that looks like wood.

Originally Posted by mhass

8. Is stucco or the synthetic equivalents feasible in this area?

Stucco is out. The synthetics are used, but not very common.

Originally Posted by mhass

9. Do people build wood-burning fireplaces anymore?

Rarely. Most people prefer gas and the fake logs. No mess, no wood chopping. Also, fireplaces tend to be more central in the modern house and people don't like carrying dirty wood all the way through the house.

Originally Posted by mhass

10. Can you install a skylight that won't leak in 3 years?

Yes. When installed in a new house rather than as a retrofit, they are quite tight.

Originally Posted by mhass

11. If we build a back porch, is that better to be on-grade or over a basement?

Over a basement if you want air/heat. Otherwise, it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by mhass

12. Will you buy my lot so I can fold that cost into my mortgage?

Sure. Do it all the time.

[mhass]

A quick development update

The street in front of my lot has been cut to grade. Assuming the density of the soil meets the proper specifications, it is ready to be covered with the crushed stone base for the street. I'm guessing, however, that the underground utilities will go in before that happens.

Here's a picture. Use the knarly old oak tree on the right as a reference point from the the pics in the first post. The pile of dirt on the left is topsoil that was collected to spread between the street and sidewalks for grass growth.

[KevinNU7]

Great Dynasty, looking forward to more

[mhass]

Glad you like it.


I just got back from a meeting where the big-wigs set lot prices. Lucky me, my lot was ranked "most likely to soak it's buyer" and I'll be paying the highest price unless somebody decides there are employee discounts. Which they won't. It sounds, however, like the top end of the price scale will be within my budget for land. Higher than I'd liked, but still doable.

[sterlingice]

"Most likely to soak it's buyer"?

SI

[mhass]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

"Most likely to soak it's buyer"?

SI

It was a feeble attempt at humor. They find my lot the easiest lot to overprice and sell to a gullible buyer. Mind you I was in this meeting and they all knew I have it reserved. They're pretty nice guys.

[3ric]

I'll be reading this, we're hoping to start construction of a house in the fall. Maybe it'll make it into another dynasty thread.

[mhass]

Originally Posted by 3ric

I'll be reading this, we're hoping to start construction of a house in the fall. Maybe it'll make it into another dynasty thread.

The side-by-side would be very interesting. Keep it in mind.

[mhass]

Some Tips I've Picked Up

There was another Parade of Homes here last weekend and we went again, looking for ideas to try and avoid. I ended up talking to a builder that has some business ties with my company and he was willing to pass along some tips, some of which I found helpful, some not. But I'll share the short version of them for the benefit of anyone here.

DESIGN STAGE (for the truly custom home)

El Numero Uno for this builder (who designs homes in-house) is to stop several times during each (3-10 at least) design meetings with a client. He not only asks them if they understand the design, but if he understands what the client wants. It makes the process slow and almost agonizingly detailed, but it is tragic to build a house and have the client hate it. But I've heard plenty of stories about people who end up sleeping in their guest room because someone designed something they hated for a master BR.

Also, have your designer stop at a point the builder considers "working drawings" (not fully detailed or completed, but a complete floorplan and rough idea of built-ins, fixture locations, etc.) and get an estimate. Go out to subcontractors and get as complete an estimate as possible. This does a few things. 1) Points out the information the people building the home (subcontractors) need from the designer in the final drawings. 2) Gives the homeowner a good idea of the budget so adjustments can be made. 3) Let's the homeowner see the house and sleep on the design a bit before anything gets built and changes become cost-prohibitive. 4) Allows the builder to make some material recommendations to the homeowner for things that had to date not been discussed (cabinet finishes, faucets, exterior lights, etc.) which tend to not be considered but still have price impact.

CONSTRUCTION PHASE

These are more technical in nature and may not apply to your locale or house, but are worth asking about if you build.

1. Forma-Drain - This is a piece of perforated channel that can be used as the form for footings. It greatly improves the drainage away from the foundation which reduces the chances of wet basements and foundational shifts.

2. 15/32" Roof Sheathing - Many builders use 7/16" on the roof. It may seem like 1/16" is not much to quibble about, but it has a pretty significant effect on sagging and snow-load capacity. If you live in snow-free areas and aren't using a heavy material (Spanish tile, slate, cedar) on the roof, you might be able to get away with 7/16", but I wouldn't recommend it.

3. Windows - It is a common place to skimp, but I would rather save somewhere else. Use a good brand of windows and use one of their better lines. Pella is the Cadillac, but Andersen and Kolbe & Kolbe make good windows too. Marvin is a tiny notch below Andersen. With energy efficiency, security and just plain appearance, you don't want to compromise here.

4. Foam the boxes - The most common thermal break (temperature breach in insulation) is the electrical boxes and wire cut-outs in exterior walls. A good builder will spray foam insulation in all these to keep the air infiltration down.

5. Vaccum - It sounds silly, but there are thre critical times to have the builder shop-vac the house. The first is before insulation goes in the walls. They should even vac the wall pockets that get the insulation. That dust will find its way back into the house otherwise. The second is before painting. Dust is the easiest way to ruin a paint job. The last is before carpet/flooring goes down. Once that dust is covered, it's in the house forever and will perpetually work up through the floor. Permanent dirt source in a brand new house.

6. Tyvek - Pretty common now, but demand it. It prevents water in the wall (mold problems) and keeps outside air out (energy efficiency).

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//////////////////////////////////////

I hope to give some ideas I have about general design and tips for making a house a little nicer in the near future. I've worked with and around architects for the last 10 years and I might as well pass on what I know about building design. Stay tuned.

[mhass]

The Drama Begins

Ok, so we knew there would be angst in this thing, we just didn't know it would come so soon. Somewhere above this post it says that Jimmy would be starting our drawings the week of Memorial Day. Amos told me this and I knew that it would be at least two weeks before I'd see a floor plan so I hung loose.

Well last Thursday, having heard nary a peep, I called Amos at 1:00 PM. There was a ton of noise in the background (his end) and he either couldn't hear or pretended he couldn't hear. I asked him what the status of the drawings was and he said, "I know for sure he's going to get to them next week. Hey listen, I'm in the middle of something here. Can I call you back later?"

I said "sure" and hung up. Now I was a little surprised at the news but not terrilby disappointed. I was, however, extremely bothered that ol' Amos hadn't picked up the phone to give me a jingle when he'd heard that Jimmy hadn't started ours. So I waited the rest of the afternoon and evening. No call.

Friday I happened to be in the neighborhood of Jimmy's office and decided I'd just cut out the middle man and drop in on him if Amos didn't call by 10:00 or so. He didn't so I did. Jimmy was totally straight with me - the family ahead of us had brought back a set of drawings that were almost done for what should have been touch-ups (a day or two of work). Instead, they'd scrapped the whole plan and started anew (two or three weeks of work). So we'd been bumped. Fine. No one could have forseen it and I"m not upset. He says he expects to start next week (this week as I write this).

I'm satisfied I'm not getting jerked around by Jimmy and head out. Well this morning, Amos calls me (four days late) and doesn't come out and say it, but is a little ticked that I went straight to Jimmy. I pretended not to notice his annoyance and repeated what Jimmy had said to me - the same thing he'd obviously said to Amos that morning - and told him I hadn't heard much so I just dropped in. He's ticked, I can tell, but since I've given the guy no money and signed nothing, I figure I've got nothing to lose. Well he ended the conversation by saying that HE'D be keeping up on Jimmy and HE'D let me know when they'd be done and HE'D be checking on the drawings.

I guess we'll see.

[Alf]

1. [Laura's primary concern] How do you keep a house 'pest-proof'? That includes mice, termites and ants as well as the non-harmful pests like flies.
----
So far, I would say that spiders is what is the more annoying And they can be big !

[mhass]

Rumor has it that Amos' wife took the kids and everything in the house and left. I'm not sure what that means for his business or his work, but I'll say it concerns me a little.

[JAG]

Damn. We should get him a FOFC account and have him post in the 'Worst Break-Ups' thread.

[Craptacular]

Didn't see this thread before. Hope all goes well. We designed our own floorplan and had a custom house built in 2003. It was A LOT of work, but well worth it. We've spent the last two years doing all the landscaping. We couldn't afford to pay someone else to do the landscaping and get the things we wanted in the house. We splurged on the master bath, Pella windows, custom cabinets and built-in entertainment center, fiber-cement siding, and a huge garage.

A few tips:
1. Put insulation in all interior walls for sound. We did most of them, but should have just payed a few extra bucks to get all of them.
2. Beware the temptation of solid surface countertops, like Corian. If you like granite for the look, go for it. However, we could probably replace our countertops five times for the price of doing Corian once.
3. If you have separate water service and sewer charges, and the sewer charge is the higher one, consider a second water meter for your outside spigots. Where I live, the sewer charge is three or four times the water charge, so the separate metering allows us to water the lawn, wash the car, etc, without costing a fortune.
4. Make sure you have a walkthrough with your builder when the house is framed to pick out locations for electrical outlets, phone and cable jacks, etc, even if those locations are already shown on the plans. Think carefully about the layout of your house, and make sure you have jacks where your TVs will be, etc.
5. Orangepeel and knockdown textures for the drywall added a ridiculous amount of money. We have a 2050 sq ft ranch, with a 1000 sq foot garage that was also drywalled, and it would have cost $2-3K+ extra for either of those textures, above and beyond the normal sand finish. Is it really worth it?? We put that money towards more useful things, like appliances, showers, windows, etc.

I could probably come up with a huge list, but I'll stop here. Feel free to post or PM me with any questions. Good luck!

[mhass]

Thanks for the great advice. It sounds as though we have similar ideas on where to spend money. Right now we're thinking of mostly laminate counters and little landscaping. We also are not crazy about textured ceilings/walls as long as the tape job is good enough to not notice the joints in the individual boards.

My wife sometimes sleeps at my parents house when I'm out of town and she hates how she can hear all the bathroom noises through the wall in the guest room so we'll probably put sound batt at least in the bed and bathrooms.

If I come up with some specific questions, I'll look you up. Thanks again.

[mhass]

Here's a little update just so you know I haven't forgotten this. I called Amos Tuesday to tell him I was coming by Friday to pick up whatever was done on our drawings. This was partially to let him know I'm frustrated with the slowness of this and partially because I actually need to start picking things out (like windows, doors, light fixtures). He checked with Jimmy and said that by Friday (the most recently promised completion date), there wouldn't be much to see, but that by Tuesday next week he should be ready. I don't buy for a second that he can turn gibberish into a plan in two days, but the point remains that I don't have anything to pick up tomorrow.

So I told him that I was upset and that I saw this pushing me into a corner if we're going to start in late September. He understood, apologized, promised that Jimmy had the drawings on his desk and that he was taking other jobs away from Jimmy because of my delay. Fat lot of good it does me, but anyway...

So I'm planning on having another update next week that explains the program (basic description) of my floorplan and maybe some pictures of the development itself.

Speaking of which, there are people working there now, but all the progress is pipe buried underground. Not thrilling. When the street goes in, I'll try to be there for pics.

[mhass]

The Drama Continues
My apologies for not updating you, but the past few days have been a situation in flux.

Back on July 13, I called Amos (mad) and told him I was going to be out of town over the next two weeks and that I wanted a copy of whatever Jimmy had done so I could start looking at windows, doors, etc. He kind of stalled, hemmed and hawed, etc. then said he would get Jimmy to mail me a copy of the completed drawings wherever I was going to be. He said they'd be ready on the 26th or 27th. I never gave him an address, but felt like I had things started on a roll since we'd met with those guys in February and I still had no drawings.

The week of the 26th went by and I was, indeed, busy out of town. Well last Thursday (August 4th) I stopped by Jimmy's office to get my drawings. He was out and I left my number. No call all day and I figured he didn't get back into the office.

Then that night Jimmy calls my house from his. I told him that Amos had said I'd have drawings and that I wanted them. He said, "I don't know why he told you that. I tell him every time he calls - which is about three times a day - that I haven't started yours and that there are two I want to get out before yours." Ugh.

He went on to tell me how he'd been promised some help from his employer, he was working 70 or 80 hours a week, everyone was mad at him, things were bad at his office and he hated it.... in short, he's pissed off and quit bugging me.

I told Laura and we agreed that someone was lying to us and that was not the way to start a project. I was gutted because I felt like it was probably Amos and I was so sure that his firm was the perfect choice for us. We talked a little, prayed a little, talked some more. She wanted to call Amos right there. I said I'd call him the next morning and tell him I needed to change something.

When I did and told him what Jimmy had told me he was furious. "What!? He just told me that he had the first floor done! I'm calling him right now." I managed to get my concerns in before he hung up, but he was stewing on the other end. We had our liar at any rate. Amos called back, said that Jimmy had hung up on him and that he was pretty mad too. I said I wasn't comfortable waiting any more and he agreed. So a manager at Jimmy's office promised Amos that he'd get our house on Jimmy's desk or that he'd find another draftsman. Amos still preferred to wait for Jimmy because "he's the best" but agreed that we'd been screwed too long and that he'd make sure we had a drawing in time to start late September or early October.

Fast-forward to today. Out of the blue, Amos calls and says that Jimmy did our first floor over the weekend. Unreal. Jimmy got the house he'd finished on Thursday back today for changes which always takes precedence so he thought Jimmy would get to our second floor late this week. Laura and I are going to take the kids to Denver this weekend to visit my brother and some friends, but Amos thought if we didn't have drawings by the time we left, we would have them early next week. Whew. Stay tuned for a write-up of the plans themselves next week sometime.

[KevinNU7]

update please

[mhass]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

update please

Ok.

Just talked to Amos who actually touched my first floor plan today (yay!). Jimmy is working on the second floor and some exterior elevations of the front now. Amos was there to beat him up a bit which I'm totally in favor of.

Jimmy's office is part of a building supply warehouse and Jimmy's boss, the manager of the Contractor Sales unit, promised Amos a great deal on lumber for my house because of all this confusion. I don't buy it, but if it happens all the better.

Also, Amos says that Doctor C next door has put off the start of his house a bit due to some personal issues which means I have some more time before I need to start (to keep the two together). That's also good news. So if I get a drawing this week I'll have plenty of time to finalize a footprint in time to dig a basement right after the good doctor does.

I do have a bunch of pictures here, but they look exactly like the ones from April since all the work in the development so far has been underground piping. You'd be bored. Trust me.

[aran]

This is a great dynasty! I'm learning a lot about something i really didn't know a whole lot about.

You're a smart guy for really picking this people apart and trying to keep them honest. It sucks when people try to walk over you.

Best of luck.

[mhass]

This just gets better

Stopped by all excited to pick up my drawings today. I was seriously jazzed, pumped, geeked, whatever. Walk in and Jimmy says "Hass right?" Grrr. Anyway, I walk over and he dramatically peels the rubber band off a roll off crinkly, sepia paper and unrolls... SOMEONE ELSE'S HOUSE.

No kidding. He somehow got some files or papers mixed up and spent the last two weeks drawing some other guy's house. Not even a tiny resemblance (I don't want a 'turret' on the front of my house ). Big time downer. He apologized, said that had never happened before, blah, blah, blah.

Called Amos and told him to light a fire though I did a little of that myself. I'm bummed.

[JAG]

Unreal.

[Swaggs]

Time to give this guy the slip yet?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mhass, straight up -- if you let this fuck-up so much as touch anything else involved with this project, I will have grave concerns about your sanity. I'd even be tempted to jam a sharp stick into each of his eyeballs just to avoid any possibility of him even looking at my house again in this lifetime. If my choice was to continue with him or abandon the project altogether for the time being, I'd go with the latter without hesitation.

It's your call, I'm just saying ...

[Buzzbee]

I'd have to agree with JiMG here. How long has it taken them to do the blueprints, and even then they can't draw the right house. How can you expect them to do a good job building it when they can't even get the blueprints right? They may have done good work in the past, but it seems that things have changed and/or they have bitten off more than they can chew. At least that is the impression I get. You are there and know the details, but from an outsider's perspective it seems mighty shaky.

[mhass]

You guys and my wife are on the same page. You're all probably right. Firing people ain't my strong suit though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by mhass

You guys and my wife are on the same page. You're all probably right. Firing people ain't my strong suit though.

Well, my schedule is a little tight right now, but for a reasonable fee, I might could free up a little time

[StanGunner]

The longer you put it off the longer you wait on your new house.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by mhass

You guys and my wife are on the same page. You're all probably right. Firing people ain't my strong suit though.

Fortunately it sounds like your wife might not have the same problem.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by mhass

The Drama Begins

Ok, so we knew there would be angst in this thing, we just didn't know it would come so soon. Somewhere above this post it says that Jimmy would be starting our drawings the week of Memorial Day. Amos told me this and I knew that it would be at least two weeks before I'd see a floor plan so I hung loose.

Well last Thursday, having heard nary a peep, I called Amos at 1:00 PM. There was a ton of noise in the background (his end) and he either couldn't hear or pretended he couldn't hear. I asked him what the status of the drawings was and he said, "I know for sure he's going to get to them next week. Hey listen, I'm in the middle of something here. Can I call you back later?"

I said "sure" and hung up. Now I was a little surprised at the news but not terrilby disappointed. I was, however, extremely bothered that ol' Amos hadn't picked up the phone to give me a jingle when he'd heard that Jimmy hadn't started ours. So I waited the rest of the afternoon and evening. No call.

Friday I happened to be in the neighborhood of Jimmy's office and decided I'd just cut out the middle man and drop in on him if Amos didn't call by 10:00 or so. He didn't so I did. Jimmy was totally straight with me - the family ahead of us had brought back a set of drawings that were almost done for what should have been touch-ups (a day or two of work). Instead, they'd scrapped the whole plan and started anew (two or three weeks of work). So we'd been bumped. Fine. No one could have forseen it and I"m not upset. He says he expects to start next week (this week as I write this).

I'm satisfied I'm not getting jerked around by Jimmy and head out. Well this morning, Amos calls me (four days late) and doesn't come out and say it, but is a little ticked that I went straight to Jimmy. I pretended not to notice his annoyance and repeated what Jimmy had said to me - the same thing he'd obviously said to Amos that morning - and told him I hadn't heard much so I just dropped in. He's ticked, I can tell, but since I've given the guy no money and signed nothing, I figure I've got nothing to lose. Well he ended the conversation by saying that HE'D be keeping up on Jimmy and HE'D let me know when they'd be done and HE'D be checking on the drawings.

I guess we'll see.

Originally Posted by mhass

I told Laura and we agreed that someone was lying to us and that was not the way to start a project.

Perhaps this might serve as a little motivation to get your Donald Trump impression in order. Original expectation around the middle of June. It is now almost September. Obvious deceptions. This can't be who you want to build your house.

[mhass]

The update:

Talked to an architect friend whom I originally had thought would draw the house. Unfortunately his firm (then and now) won't let him do it for anything less than $5,500 which is way more than I can afford for drawings. He says that he will begin drawing my set on his own time for $40 an hour. If he finishes before Jimmy, I have a set. If Jimmy pulls a miracle (which no one expects at this point) and finishes before my friend then I'm only out a couple hundred bucks (which I'm hoping I can horse-trade for construction work at his house).

Also, I Amos stopped by my office to apologize again and is engaging yet a third person to draw them. The story there is, which I always feared, that this guy has a waiting list too. So three guys are potentially drawing my house. First one done gets the money.

The moderately bright spot is that I'm still not behind on anything and never expected to start until September.

And yes, this all means I pussed out of firing Jimmy. Guilty.

[mhass]

More News of Sorts

I called Amos a while ago and asked for some good news. He said he'd been checking in every day and wanted to have me plan on a meeting next week to go over the plan and provide some feedback. Super, great, grand.

Well, about 15 minutes later, Jimmy's boss called me and said that he'd just talked to Amos and Amos had ripped him a new one all over again regarding my situation and that he was about to lose the deal with me over Jimmy et al's screw ups. (minor point: this is totally true but I've never verbalized this). Apparently Amos was pretty harsh because the guy was unhinged.

He SAID he was calling to feel me out and see how grave the situation really was. He did indeed ask me lots of questions like that, but every time I started to answer, he jumped in with an excuse or explanation of how sorry he was or how hard Jimmy was working. Pretty quickly, I realized that this wasn't about him understanding my point of view.

In the end, the call was more or less to tell me that he understood that time was pretty critical and that he was taking the job away from Jimmy and giving it to a contract employee who is currently available. I've lost track, but I think this means that four people may or may not be drawing things for me right now. But anyway, this new guy is supposedly less precise, less insightful, less meticulous about details, but could generate a plan decent enough for me to at least get a price out of New Guy Construction.

My architect friend has spent about four hours on my job and has a footing design done. Architects are so slow. He could have looked at any house built in this city in the last 10 years to find a footings design - it's not really something that has to be re-created for each new house.

Onward.