OOTP 2007

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

dola

Also are they scare to release the ootp html reports so we can see how the AI is handling waivers, releases and trades, etc.

This report will tell us a lot too.

No, it's part of TRTR

[Marc Duffy]

What posts on what forum did you base this analysis?

Many people on the OOTP boards care about the AI. Many wont buy the game till they've played the demo. Cannot be any clearer than that in my mind that we've got to get it right.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I guess. I'm just turned off in general by the beta-testers being an 'official' marketing arm. I'm sure there will be something with more significance later in the process, but for Day 1, it was pretty weak.

Well I figured you guys would rather hear a fellow customers view rather than me or Markus churning stuff out.

No-one on the beta team is forced to write a blog, nor do we tell them what to say. I've been pretty clear that they can come post on any board they like if they are unhappy with the game provided they've posted it in our beta forum first.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

What posts on what forum did you base this analysis?

Many people on the OOTP boards care about the AI. Many wont buy the game till they've played the demo. Cannot be any clearer than that in my mind that we've got to get it right.

I know it might be a bit early to ask, but any word on when the demo might be out? Also, is it going to be real world time limited or in game time limited? Either way, I'm looking forward to trying the demo out to see if it is worth buying.

[Marc Duffy]

Demo will be out around release time.

Those of you from this forum - who vocally were not best pleased with OOTP 2006 - please PM me if you are up for trying a preview copy of the game.

I'm willing to give you a limited preview version to try and I'm confident it will change your current perception of OOTP 2006

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Marc Duffy

What posts on what forum did you base this analysis?

Many people on the OOTP boards care about the AI. Many wont buy the game till they've played the demo. Cannot be any clearer than that in my mind that we've got to get it right.

You ain't shitting. I haven't seen anything that tells me the AI issues are corrected and Face gen won't clear that up.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

dola

Also are they scare to release the ootp html reports so we can see how the AI is handling waivers, releases and trades, etc.

This report will tell us a lot too.

jb is back!

[Pumpy Tudors]

At this point, I'm really starting to wonder if SI should allow their marketing team to do the talking and keep Markus away from the message boards until release.

[vtbub]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

At this point, I'm really starting to wonder if SI should allow their marketing team to do the talking and keep Markus away from the message boards until release.

That's a winner!

[JPhillips]

Amen. Markus is terrible at customer relations. I'd give him a contract with a reverse incentive, minus 500$ for each message board post.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

At this point, I'm really starting to wonder if SI should allow their marketing team to do the talking and keep Markus away from the message boards until release.

What do you mean? I must have missed something. Probably because jb's verb usage made my brain explode.

[dime]

I don't think markus did anything unseemly...his livelihood is getting trashed by edlynch/lynchjim, whatever...and he hasn't sunk to that level.

[MizzouRah]

You might be surprised, but I believe lynchjm24 wants ootp to succeed more than most of us do. He was disappointed by v2006 and so were MANY, MANY, other people.

Markus has a bad habit of replying to issues with, "That's fixed!" and then we're disappointed by his definition of "fixed". It's just frustration from lynchjm24 and I like the way he just comes right out and says what's on his mind concerning ootp.

To each their own I guess.

[Toddiec]

Markus' comments have me very excited about the game and I don't think we should discourage any of the developers that visit this board from posting. I think Markus is legitimately passionate about his game and that is exactly what I would expect from someone who has devoted so much time to developing it over the years. I think this is one of those "be careful what you wish for" instances.

The OOTP franchise is easily one of the top two in my personal computer playing history. I have received many many hours of entertainment for my monetary investment in the games. I have preordered 2007 and chalk it up to fanboyism or being a sucker or whatever, and I am firmly in the 6.5 better than v2006 camp by the way, but I am very excited about the release.

Anyway, I don't usually post but I didn't like where the tenor of this thread was going and I wanted to give an example of someone who doesn't buy into the "Markus posts killing OOTP hype" opinion.

[Cork]

Originally Posted by Toddiec

Markus' comments have me very excited about the game and I don't think we should discourage any of the developers that visit this board from posting. I think Markus is legitimately passionate about his game and that is exactly what I would expect from someone who has devoted so much time to developing it over the years. I think this is one of those "be careful what you wish for" instances.

The OOTP franchise is easily one of the top two in my personal computer playing history. I have received many many hours of entertainment for my monetary investment in the games. I have preordered 2007 and chalk it up to fanboyism or being a sucker or whatever, and I am firmly in the 6.5 better than v2006 camp by the way, but I am very excited about the release.

Anyway, I don't usually post but I didn't like where the tenor of this thread was going and I wanted to give an example of someone who doesn't buy into the "Markus posts killing OOTP hype" opinion.

You should be very happy with your OOTP 2007 purchase Toddiec. OOTP 2007 is vastly superior to it's dismal 2006 offering. I am a lifelong DMB player and OOTP 2007 has finally made me forget DMB.

How do I know this? I am a member of the beta team and will only say that the improvements in OOTP 2007 over the 2006 version are quite impressive. Is the game perfect? No. Will it ever be perfect? No, but it should become the standard by which all other text based baseball games are judged by. The game is that good.

For me, the vastly improved PbP, the improved interface and the facegen feature are more than enough to warrant a purchase. If you also take into account all the cool little things that have been improved or added, the decision to purchase becomes a no-brainer.

Hopefully Markus will hit it hard down the stretch and eliminate the few major issues that remain. I also have to say that Andreas also deserves quite a bit of credit for the outstanding work he has done with facegen, logos and other items in his area.

-Cork

[Marc Duffy]

You ain't shitting. I haven't seen anything that tells me the AI issues are corrected and Face gen won't clear that up.

To be fair, you've not actually played the game. My offer stands to you and others in this forum.

if you are willing to try out a preview version - you can test the AI yourself!

[Galaril]

I am going to say after reading the TRTR for Day 3 about the historical features and replay that this could be very good.

http://www.ootpbaseball.net/clubhous...gid=26&id=1278

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by dime

I don't think markus did anything unseemly...his livelihood is getting trashed by edlynch/lynchjim, whatever...and he hasn't sunk to that level.

I like Markus and everyone else at SI. I didn't like the first day of TRTR, it just seemed like everything else that we saw last year, heavy hype with no substance behind it. Days 2 and 3 have been better with some actual observations and evidence instead of just glowing opinion.

Some of the OOTP fanbase is loath to be negative on any aspect of the game. It's a pretty vocal minority. I understand that some of my criticism of 2006 was over the top. This was intentional, because I got the feeling that many of those that were disappointed just dropped the game and moved on. I feel like there were many that shared my feelings on the game, but don't have the passion for baseball sims that I do. I was only being selfish, hoping that by being vocal, SI might move the game back in a direction that was more enjoyable to me. 2006 has some impressive features, it just never comes together as an enjoyable game to play.

I don't feel like I've ever been negative towards anyone at SI on a personal level, I give them a lot of credit for being patient with people like me for so long. I hope they have a world of success and keep designing games that appeal to text-simmers. They currently are the only company that is designing the type of baseball game that I want to play, so even if I didn't like them, I'd still have a vested interest in their success.

[Senator]

I know this is minor, but I like the one pitch feature. I used to play microleague baseball as a kid, and always liked it.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I like Markus and everyone else at SI. I didn't like the first day of TRTR, it just seemed like everything else that we saw last year, heavy hype with no substance behind it. Days 2 and 3 have been better with some actual observations and evidence instead of just glowing opinion.

Some of the OOTP fanbase is loath to be negative on any aspect of the game. It's a pretty vocal minority. I understand that some of my criticism of 2006 was over the top. This was intentional, because I got the feeling that many of those that were disappointed just dropped the game and moved on. I feel like there were many that shared my feelings on the game, but don't have the passion for baseball sims that I do. I was only being selfish, hoping that by being vocal, SI might move the game back in a direction that was more enjoyable to me. 2006 has some impressive features, it just never comes together as an enjoyable game to play.

I don't feel like I've ever been negative towards anyone at SI on a personal level, I give them a lot of credit for being patient with people like me for so long. I hope they have a world of success and keep designing games that appeal to text-simmers. They currently are the only company that is designing the type of baseball game that I want to play, so even if I didn't like them, I'd still have a vested interest in their success.

I am glad you wrote this. I did not know your history with the game, and just from a casual observation, my first inclination was that you were a troll that just had a personal beef with them. Now that I know the history, I have re-read some of your post with different eyes.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I am going to say after reading the TRTR for Day 3 about the historical features and replay that this could be very good.

http://www.ootpbaseball.net/clubhous...gid=26&id=1278

I agree...........things are looking on the up and up. It seems as though SI and Markus knew how much was riding on this year's version and they might have stepped up with some impressive features, and more importantly a long, long beta test time.

[Marc Duffy]

Well, the proof is going to be in the pudding - that is for sure.

[astrosfan64]

OOTP is a no brainer purchase for me every year.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Senator

I know this is minor, but I like the one pitch feature. I used to play microleague baseball as a kid, and always liked it.

Me too. Really glad Markus brought that back.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I guess I should have said more regarding my comments about Markus. The thing is that SI does have marketing people, and it's their job to get people to buy the game. I haven't followed the OOTP saga for the past few years (as far as which customers he's had problems with, etc.), but there have obviously been problems before, and I just think it might be best to let SI's marketing people do the talking now.

[SirFozzie]

I hope someone takes Marc on the offer and runs a 20 year sim and sees if the "pick up/release" syndrome has been fixed.

I've been one of the more ardent supporters of the game here, so I can't say I would be a good choice to test that. Maybe someone like the Dog or someone similar...

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I hope someone takes Marc on the offer and runs a 20 year sim and sees if the "pick up/release" syndrome has been fixed.

I've been one of the more ardent supporters of the game here, so I can't say I would be a good choice to test that. Maybe someone like the Dog or someone similar...

I'm figuring the "limited preview" wouldn't be able to do that. If it could, I'd run a 20 year sim (heck, I'd run 100 if I could) on my computer and look at the results.

[Bea-Arthurs Hip]

Minor feature to most but something I really missed last year, will there be any sound in this years version?

[CraigSca]

No or limited sound this year - I heard that's on the table for 2008.

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'm figuring the "limited preview" wouldn't be able to do that. If it could, I'd run a 20 year sim (heck, I'd run 100 if I could) on my computer and look at the results.

No, it will. By limited I mean that it's going to timeout on you probably after 3-4 days.

[Marc Duffy]

Online League enhancements : http://www.ootpbaseball.net/clubhous...gid=26&id=1279

[Bee]

The discussion on the OOTP boards about the historic league that TigerFan reported on for the Day 3 TRTR blog is pretty interesting. He's reporting on various players/teams that people are asking about. It's pretty amazing to me how realistic the results were across the board especially considering there's still time for more bug fixes.

[Ksyrup]

Interesting write-up regarding the historical replay feature. I want this game just for that at this point!

Although, as I suspected, the 'recalculate' feature looks like it is the big trade-off - sacrifice the lesser-knowns becoming more than washouts/bit players but gain accuracy for all players' career paths. Honestly, I'd rather have the former than the latter. Part of the fun of the game is not so much the replay per se as it is the surprises that unfold. And it seems like the only surprises that come out of this kind of replay are (1) injuries to great players and (2) trades. Otherwise, players pretty much progress like they did IRL.

The other thing I don't like is forcing changes to how a player is used. WIth the recalulate feature, Smoltz and Eckersley automatically become relievers/closers as they did IRL. IMO, there should be a contextual reason for those moves that is justified within the replay itself, and not just because they did so IRL. Like I said, it's a big trade-off.

I intend to run my historical replay from about the point that Babe Ruth switches over to full-time OF to get beyond the pitcher/hitter issue (although who he plays for is going to seriously alter the history of the game early-on, obviously) without the recalculate feature turned on, but I think I will assign rookies to their original teams to keep at least a little continuity with real life. And unlike TigerFan, I most certainly will turn on free agency about 1975 or so. I can't imagine baseball (or sports in general) without it now.

In fact, if Markus would like me to pick up where TF left off and run some historical tests using alternative game settings, I'd be happy to post my comments about them.

[Bee]

It would be interesting to see a historic replay with the "recalculate" turned off.

[Buccaneer]

There would be absolutely no way I would play with recalculate on. I like the variance that OOTP5 gives you with historical players - unpredictable yet within the range of plausibility - even without the effects of trading and injuries.

[Qrusher14242]

So with recalculate off does it still change the league totals over the years? I wouldnt want to have recalculate on if it automatically changes players positions. That would make it more of a replay league.

[TigerFan1]

Originally Posted by Bee

It would be interesting to see a historic replay with the "recalculate" turned off.

I will post some results with recalculate off in the next day or so. You certainly still have the option to have historical player development be more random like in past versions.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by TigerFan1

I will post some results with recalculate off in the next day or so. You certainly still have the option to have historical player development be more random like in past versions.

Thanks! It's nice that we'll have the ability to tweak the game like that so everyone can get something close to what they want. I have no idea which way I'll go, but I am curious to see what kinds of numbers you get with "recalculate" turned off.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by TigerFan1

I will post some results with recalculate off in the next day or so. You certainly still have the option to have historical player development be more random like in past versions.

Hey, back off! I was angling for a preview copy of the game and you're seriously damaging my chances!

[TigerFan1]

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

So with recalculate off does it still change the league totals over the years? I wouldnt want to have recalculate on if it automatically changes players positions. That would make it more of a replay league.

I think I understand your question. You want to be able to have the league totals automatically adjust each season just like in OOTP2006 without players changing their positions, correct?

If so, the answer is yes if you want to. They are 2 seperate options that can be turned on or off.

Auto adjust league totals can be enabled or disabled. Enabling it will make the overall league stats follow a development curve similiar to real life. It is designed to make sure you get the homerun explosion in the 1990's and very few homers in the deadball era.

Recalculate player ratings is another option that can be turned on or off. If turned on, you can actually choose to have the ratings based on just the current season, a 3 year period or a 5 year period. Regardless if you enable this option or not you can still turn on or off the option to auto adjust league totals.


Think of it this way:
Auto adjust league totals focus is really on the league as a whole with the goal being to get the right number of homeruns (and all other stat categories) without being concerned who hits them.

Recalculate player ratings is more designed to make sure that the right players hit close to the right number of homeruns.

The only time they do not work well together is when you select the option to recalculate ratings based on the current season only and turn on the auto adjust league settings. You get some real weird numbers that way (and there is a warning in game setup telling you not to do this) but any other combination works fine.


Hope that helps clear it up.

[TigerFan1]

To clarify things from my blog a little bit here are some of the new options historical simmers will have with OOTP2007.

There are now two basic modes of play for historical simmers. I am not sure if there will be an official name to each but I have been calling them Classic Mode and Hall of Fame mode.

Classic mode is basically what we have been using all along with the OOTP series. You can import players based on a few different options (whole career, remaining career, peak seasons, etc) but once they are imported their development is no longer based on their real-life careers. They will develop just as a fictional player would in OOTP. The result, as we all know, can give you some careers that pan out similiar to real life but a large number of players develop at a very different pace from their real life careers.

In Classic mode, just as in the past, you can choose to have your league totals recalculated automatically each year. The goal of this is to give the league realistic stats (a lot of work has gone and continues to go into this by the testers). The league leaders may not be the same players they were in real life but the stats will look more or less right for the era. In this mode there will be a homerun explosion in the 90's but it could be Sam Horn instead of Mark McGwire leading the way.

The Hall of Fame mode is the new option a user has. For the past few years there have been a number of people tinkering with modified databases to try and get the players to perform closer to what they did in real life. One of the goals the past few years for Markus and historical beta testers has been to make historical play much easier to use and this Hall of Fame mode is big step in that direction for those who want more of a realistic feel to their league. With the Hall of Fame mode enabled the default player development engine is replaced and players instead change throughout their careers based on their real life stats. The only time I believe the default development kicks in with this mode of play is if a player retired in real life but is still active in the sim.

The result of this Hall of Fame or recalculate ratings mode is player development is so much more accurate. It is this mode of play that my blog was discussing.

Is one mode better than the other? That depends on the user. I expect those who like to sim in 'God Mode' just as commissioners of a solo league will likely prefer the new Hall of Fame mode while online leagues and solo players who like to manage a team may prefer the alternate career paths that result with the Classic Mode. Either way, it is an option and in both cases setting up and playing out a historical league is much easier this time around.

Among the things that make it easier in both modes are the auto expansion draft, automatic team movement and league realignment, auto implementation of the DH at the right time and auto adjustment of the postseason. In Hall of Fame mode you also get the benefit of not having to change Babe Ruth from a pitcher to a hitter, or moving guys like Eckersley to the pen.

The real nice thing in both modes, for those so inclined, is you can start the game up in 1901 and walk away from the cpu. When you come back and it is 2006 in your league you will see that expansion and team movements occurred fine and everything else is how it should be. For someone who does not know when or how to move the Dodgers and Giants west, the game will now do it for you. This, like most other features, is an option so alternate reality buffs can still leave the Dodgers in Brooklyn should they so desire.

Bottom line. Historical simming is much easier and results much more realistic for those that want them to be without sacrificing the randomness that others may prefer.

[Bee]

I have a question. Under the "recalculate" mode, can the AI change a player's position and if it does will it get changed back during the next "recalculation" period?

[rjolley]

Has Markus been able to include players who can pitch and hit, like Ruth did? Instead of switching their position completely, can I, for instance, play Ruth in the field when he's not pitching and he'll still perform? And, more importantly, will the AI be able to take advantage of that type of player?

[cubboyroy1826]

I like what has been said about the historical expansion and teams moving cities. As for the expansion in historical mode is there an actual expansion draft? I like a lot of what i am hearing so far but remain guarded and will probably wait to hear some feeback once it is released.

[TigerFan1]

Originally Posted by Bee

I have a question. Under the "recalculate" mode, can the AI change a player's position and if it does will it get changed back during the next "recalculation" period?

Initially it is set when recalculating the ratings. However, the AI will set it back the next day if necessary once it has set up its roster.

A good example from my blog sim is Pete Rose. Rose spend virtually all of the 1970's in my sim playing second base for the Reds, despite the fact he was an outfielder and third baseman during that time period in real life. The reason was the Reds did not acquire Joe Morgan from Houston in this sim so there was a need at second base.

[TigerFan1]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Has Markus been able to include players who can pitch and hit, like Ruth did? Instead of switching their position completely, can I, for instance, play Ruth in the field when he's not pitching and he'll still perform? And, more importantly, will the AI be able to take advantage of that type of player?

I don't believe so. I am pretty sure a player will be either a pitcher or a position player, but not both during any given season.

[TigerFan1]

Originally Posted by cubboyroy1826

I like what has been said about the historical expansion and teams moving cities. As for the expansion in historical mode is there an actual expansion draft? I like a lot of what i am hearing so far but remain guarded and will probably wait to hear some feeback once it is released.

Yes there is an actual expansion draft. You can customize how many players each of the existing teams can protect and the AI can run the entire draft on it's own.

[TigerFan1]

Originally Posted by Bee

It would be interesting to see a historic replay with the "recalculate" turned off.

I just simmed from 1901-2006 with recalculate turned off. Here is a little bit of info from the league. If there is anything in particular you want to know about let me know and I will do my best to post it.

The first thing that stands out for me is Jimmie Foxx. He became one of the greatest players I have seen in any historical sim I have ever run. (Note, I did set injuries to low for the entire sim rather than normal so that might have been a factor in Foxx's longevity.

Drafted first overall by the Cubs as a 16 year old in the June 1924 draft, Foxx would go on to lead the majors in virtually every offensive career stat category as he enjoyed a career that spanned 30 years.

Year/Team/League  Age	G	AB	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	R	AVG
1924 Chicago - ML 16	3	6	1	0	0	0	0	1	.167
1925 Chicago - ML 17	130	418	150	21	6	16	111	74	.359
1926 Chicago - ML 18	145	573	178	35	4	17	110	102	.311
1927 Chicago - ML 19	149	595	218	33	4	41	157	122	.366
1928 Chicago - ML 20	149	589	193	30	11	23	122	101	.328
1929 Chicago - ML 21	149	596	192	21	3	47	138	137	.322
1930 Chicago - ML 22	148	558	231	26	4	62	184	168	.414
1931 Chicago - ML 23	147	547	184	26	5	35	117	128	.336
1932 Chicago - ML 24	148	551	196	23	9	46	138	138	.356
1933 Chicago - ML 25	134	486	134	20	6	23	78	84	.276
1934 Chicago - ML 26	122	453	125	17	3	35	101	90	.276
1935 Chicago - ML 27	150	555	171	25	4	50	136	129	.308
1936 Chicago - ML 28	141	526	165	21	8	42	125	121	.314
1937 Chicago - ML 29	131	484	152	21	9	36	111	120	.314
1938 Chicago - ML 30	149	557	187	25	5	50	132	134	.336
1939 Chicago - ML 31	151	556	165	34	3	37	127	122	.297
1940 Chicago - ML 32	151	558	192	29	5	45	121	131	.344
1941 Chicago - ML 33	152	547	175	30	10	44	136	111	.320
1942 Chicago - ML 34	153	549	169	20	9	45	106	127	.308
1943 Chicago - ML 35	152	556	161	21	6	34	98	96	.290
1944 Chicago - ML 36	122	475	140	20	11	33	97	103	.295
1945 Chicago - ML 37	150	572	183	25	15	34	113	103	.320
1946 Chicago - ML 38	142	531	157	15	9	27	69	88	.296
1947 Chicago - ML 39	137	498	130	23	4	28	75	81	.261
1948 Chicago - ML 40	139	511	146	29	8	32	91	82	.286
1949 Chicago - ML 41	72	270	69	13	0	8	41	34	.256
1950 Chicago - ML 42	106	393	101	18	4	13	62	59	.257
1951 Chicago - ML 43	124	372	104	27	5	13	62	64	.280
1952 Chicago - ML 44	108	252	50	5	2	6	34	31	.198
1953 Chicago - ML 45	48	61	10	2	3	0	7	10	.164
Total ML	30 yrs.	3902	14195	4429	655	175	922	2999	2891	.312

A 5 time National League MVP, Foxx's career totals dwarf anyone else to ever play the game.

His 3902 career games played are more than 600 more than anyone else (Jim Breazeale is second with 3275 followed by Willie McCovey with 3271).

His 2891 runs scored are over 500 more than McCovey (2338).

His 4429 hits are more than 600 more than Joe Torre (3772) and Willie McCovey (3715)

Foxx drove in 2999 runs, nearly 600 more than Willie McCovey (2407). Jose Canseco is third with 2095 after just passing Joe Dimaggio (2071) late in the 2006 season.

Foxx hit 922 career homers. Here are the members of the 500 homerun club at the end of 2006.

1	Jimmie Foxx	922	1924-1953	
2	Willie McCovey	898	1958-1979	
3	Jose Canseco#	770	1984-2006	
4	Howard Johnson	681	1981-2001	
5	R Palmeiro	665	1985-2005	
6	Orlando Cepeda	642	1957-1975	
7	Leon Wagner	607	1957-1974	
8	Joe DiMaggio	600	1935-1953	
9	Frank Thomas#	596	1989-2006	
10	Frank Robinson	590	1955-1973	
11	Jim Thome#	585	1990-2006	
12	Eddie Mathews	582	1951-1970	
13	Eddie Murray	577	1976-1994	
14	Gil Hodges	561	1944-1962	
15	Jim Rice	559	1973-1997	
16	Mark McGwire	558	1986-2000	
17	Todd Hundley#	556	1990-2006	
18	Kal Daniels	535	1985-2003	
19	Ken McMullen	534	1962-1985	
20	Albert Belle	526	1988-2004	
21	Al Rosen	509	1947-1964	
22	A Galarraga	508	1984-2000	
23	Cecil Fielder	505	1984-2002

#still active

[rjolley]

What happened with Ruth, Bonds, and Sosa?

[SirFozzie]

29 year career? drafted and in the majors at age 16? Um.....