2030 Training Camp Complete

[TheMeat]

DataFileHost - FOWL2010_2030TC.zip

Here you go, sim times will likely be earlier than this for the rest of the week so please get yer exports in as soon as you can. I started a new job that has me working fairly early.

[TheMeat]

O fugg. I accidentally left the option for the AI to fill rosters since I had that setting on for testing I had done in another league. I assume this won't cause any trouble so I'll leave it as is. My bad.

[Bako]

I just see that the AI went crazy with changing positions. My stud OT and DE both had their sides swapped, but no loss of ratings so I'm not complaining either way.

[Sef0r]

There was never a penalty, just that you would handicap your team by doing so. I am over the cap but that was because I didn't have enough to fill the minimum roster requirement before TC.

Classic example of really messing with a team was when the Vikings were taken over sometime ago, I think it was Meat's friend. That was when this stud RB came out and he basically signed all the best players to huge contracts that would put the team way over the cap for years 2 and 3 of the player contracts. He never came back...I don't think.

[Bako]

In my mind, deliberately going over the cap or even just being over the cap at Week 1 is like cheating. The cap is there for a reason...........for us all to stay under. If you go over the cap, with no real penalty you have an unfair advantage over every team that did stay under the cap.

[Tasan]

Well, the AI thing screwed me over. For some reason it saw fit to sign a RB for me and it forced me to miss out (because of cap space) on an offer I put out on a QB. In fact, I see no trace of the offer even happening now, but I'm certain it was put in.

[Tasan]

Well crap. Now I see it also signed a stupid DT and released my young backup safety....

[TheMeat]

Ok, well if I need to re-sim then I can, or I can just trade that young S back to your team. I'm a retard and should take my time with these things so we don't hafta go through this, I know it's annoying for you guys and I apologize. Whatever I can do to make it right then we'll get it done Tasan, I see QB O.J. Avant was signed and released so I can sign em and trade em to you too if need be. Let me know.

-Jeremiah

[Tasan]

Yeah, somehow I need QB Avant and SS Winslet back on my team for things to be right. Mind a quick re-sim?

Also, RB Monroe and DT Nelson should not be on the team.

[TheMeat]

I've spent a lot of time pondering it over the seasons and here's what I think:

You're right, it is a bit exploitative to spend all your money on stars and let the AI fill your roster BUT...

1. If you make a rule against it then you have to decide on a punishment, we have no draft picks so what would we do to that person? release players? With so few stages I don't think we want to impose a penalty that could screw a guy's whole season up.
2. Add to that the fact that I would then have to police it at least one stage/year and that would cost me precious minutes of my awesome life
3. Since everyone can do it is it really cheating since we can just allow it and call it strategy? (this is the current state of our rules, it is perfectly legal)
4. IF you leave 10 empty spots on your roster it'd save you about 5-7 mil per season, and even then you're wasting 10 roster spots that could be spent on depth players and prospects. So that's not much of an edge. I have known about this strategy for probably 15 seasons and used it maybe 3 times when it just so happened to work out.

So, given the choice between just calling it strategy and letting people use it if they think it's worth their time OR making an extra rule which is a pain to enforce, a pain to police and wouldn't even come into play very often....

I'll err on the side of less rules every time. This is of course open to discussion and debate.

[Bako]

I understand what your saying about adding rules and the extra work it would put on you. I am not looking for that to happen at all. I appreciate the work you put in Meat.

I could easily go over the cap year in and year out with no penalty, but in my eyes that bastardizes the game. There is a cap for a reason and there are built in penalties because it is illegal to be over the cap. Unfortunately since we have no draft, people can break the rules with no punishment. To me juggling the cap is one of the greater challenges of the game. Simply using all of your cap on 30 players and having the AI fill your roster is not game play or strategy, "it's so easy a caveman could do it."

A rule could be very simple. Something like, "Teams are required to be under the salary cap by Week 1. If you fail to get under the cap, the commish will release a player(s) to get you under the cap for the playoff file."

I may be the minority on this topic, and that is fine. If I am then I will leave it alone and do my best to compete with guys who have to over-spend to field a good team and win.

[Sef0r]

Its not like I'm going all out exploiting the game here. The game doesn't have injuries, I've got the depth of players I want and don't need another TE, WR, C, G, T or whatever position. The game forces me to have a minimum roster count.

I'd gone over the cap by 1-3 million each season for the last 6 or so seasons as there was no penalty. The only penalty obviously is not being able to sign players the following season if you happen to be over the cap.

Why is it a problem now when it was never a problem before?

[Bako]

It was brought up before with Ben. He shot it down, but I still believed it was wrong. I was hoping that with new leadership something could be done about this blatant exploit.

[Sef0r]

For the sake of peace and happiness in a league with very few people I will make sure I am not over the cap by Pre Season week 1 next season.

[Bako]

I really just wanted to see if anyone felt the same as I did. If I am the only one that feels this way, I dont want others to have to change just because of how I feel about it.

[TheMeat]

I'm glad to see this didn't turn into a poo-fight

Like C4 said, in a league with only 7 of us I think it's important that everyone have a strong voice regarding league policy. Bako, you've been top-notch owner and if this does hinder your enjoyment of the league then I'd be willing to stay under the cap even if it's just a gentleman's agreement to do so. Especially since we're div rivals. I think I could stay 10mil under the cap and still beat the Texans

I like it that you're a NFL purist-type because none of us would be here if we weren't NFL fans, and sometimes it's cheesy that this game (like all games) turns into beating the machinery itself rather than simulating the real NFL. I remember when TTWS first started and Subby's cardinals had a couple seasons over the cap, we had a couple long phone convos on the issue (I think everyone knows how excitable T can be ) and over time we've come to agree that it's a minor glitch.

I like to think of this league as a wild west style sim where we are free to really go nuts on the game itself and I view it not as Me vs. You or anyone else, but me vs. the game. I will throw for 6,000 yards. I've done it before in SP with less talent than my team currently has. My QB looks like he might go into orbit, he keeps creeping up.

[TTWS]

Im over the camp this year for the 2nd or so time in 20 plus seasons, and from my own experience when your over your doing something wrong. It never seems to be a great plan to do the cap tight rope dance so if it helps i'll try to avoid doing it in the future but at the same time i hope all my opponents get stuck up against the cap.

[Tasan]

I'd prefer to see us all stick to the cap, for the simple fact that its there any in any other situation we'd get penalized for not doing so.