Jerry Sandusky thread

[Toddzilla]

Barry Switzer had a good comment on this, given his perspective as a former collegiate head coach. He said there was absolutely no chance - none - that everyone on that coaching staff didn't know every detail of what had happened or what was going on with Sandusky.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There are only two reasons this makes sense: (1) panic, or (2) they had knowledge going back years (into the 80s) and were afraid of having happen in 1998ish what is happening right now.

It's always possible the 1998 thing was the first time they heard any of this, and they thought it was so bad that they couldn't have it come out publicly, so they panicked and covered it up. But I tend to believe this had been going on for quite some time and there was enough smoke that someone should have done something earlier, and they felt like they had no choice but to bury it as best they could at the time.

Id say a 3rd is that they didnt want this getting out in the public thinking it would hurt recruiting.

Possibly the coverup in 98 was to protect recruiting and the 02 fiasco was to coverup the coverup from 98.

We have all seen the extremes these coaches go to for these recruits.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Barry Switzer had a good comment on this, given his perspective as a former collegiate head coach. He said there was absolutely no chance - none - that everyone on that coaching staff didn't know every detail of what had happened or what was going on with Sandusky.

Maybe not every single one, but I'm starting to lean more and more in this general direction. This is starting to smell like a situation where one lie or cover-up led to bigger lies and cover-ups to the point where they couldn't afford to do anything but pretend everything was fine and hope no one would come forward.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

to the point where they couldn't afford to do anything but pretend everything was fine and hope no one would come forward.

it's so bizarre how many people in how many situations get to this point. Anthony Weiner found out, and we're getting ready to see Herman Cain go down in flames, too.

The truth is ALWAYS going to come out, so save yourself now or it will not end well.

[gkb]

The mother of the boy who triggered the investigation into Jerry Sandusky's alleged child sex assaults says that during the years of abuse the boy suffered he felt he didn't have the power to say no to the former Penn State football coach.

According to a 1998 study on child sexual abuse by Boston University Medical School, one in six boys in America will be abused by age 16. For girls, it's one in four by the age of 14.

Key dates in the Jerry Sandusky sex abuse case

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Barry Switzer had a good comment on this, given his perspective as a former collegiate head coach. He said there was absolutely no chance - none - that everyone on that coaching staff didn't know every detail of what had happened or what was going on with Sandusky.

This.

I can't see McQueary not talking to others about this. Maybe that is the case, maybe he never spoke to anyone about it ever again. I just doubt that.

What I can't resolve is how McQueary and my guess is others knew about this, Paterno had to have discussed the shower incident beyond what is shared in the testimony. Even if it was just to say "We don't speak about that".

So what Sandusky has done is "out there" within the program. It had to have been. How could McQueary have seen Sandusky on even a semi regular basis, without the incident being discussed?

So we have an organization that turned a blind eye to allegations about as serious as they get for close to a decade. Given that, Joe is culpable.

I do cut McQueary some slack on the night he witnessed Sandusky in the shower. I think everyone assumes the assault continued, but I sort of doubt that Sandusky would have carried on after being "caught". So my take, without any facts to support it, is that McQueary did effectively end the assault just by his appearance. To assume otherwise damns McQueary more than I believe is supported by the facts.

[molson]

Originally Posted by gkb

The mother of the boy who triggered the investigation into Jerry Sandusky's alleged child sex assaults says that during the years of abuse the boy suffered he felt he didn't have the power to say no to the former Penn State football coach.

According to a 1998 study on child sexual abuse by Boston University Medical School, one in six boys in America will be abused by age 16. For girls, it's one in four by the age of 14.

And 1 in 6, and 1 in 4, equals probably hundreds of thousands that know something, or have reasonable suspicions.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I think everyone assumes the assault continued, but I sort of doubt that Sandusky would have carried on after being "caught". So my take, without any facts to support it, is that McQueary did effectively end the assault just by his appearance. To assume otherwise damns McQueary more than I believe is supported by the facts.

Well, we don't know either way, but if we begin to believe that this many people knew, then we must also begin to believe that at some point Sandusky may have gotten to the point that he didn't care about getting "caught."

WARNING: Gross and graphic comment:

Spoiler

(Not to mention the fact that he's also at that point a dude with an erection and likely wanted to finish.)

[Julio Riddols]

Its getting to the point where I am starting to feel like Paterno et al might have had a hand in enabling Sandusky and accepting significant payoffs from the boosters that were involved in the possible greater scandal in order to keep quiet. He either also thinks its ok to do nasty shit like this or was threatened or paid enough in his feeble condition to keep his mouth shut. I also wonder if thats part of why he has "coached" for so long. Because theres no guarantee the next guy in line would keep is mouth shut, especially if he was hired from outside the school. Otherwise, I don't see how anyone in their right mind doesn't get out from under this house of cards (and as far away from it as possible) as soon as the wind starts to pick up.

[Toddzilla]

Per ESPN, former Penn State players are planning a rally at tomorrows game to support Joe Paterno and the coaching staff, with one player raising money for Sandusky's legal defense.

Can the NCAA please step in and give Penn State football the death penalty now?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Per ESPN, former Penn State players are planning a rally at tomorrows game to support Joe Paterno and the coaching staff, with one player raising money for Sandusky's legal defense.

Can the NCAA please step in and give Penn State football the death penalty now?

I read a different article that said former players were getting together to show their support for the current players. It didn't say anything about them doing it to support Paterno, just the current players.

The same article mentioned that a player from the 50s is asking players from his team to help Sandusky pay his lawyer fees because he thinks every man gets his day in court.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Per ESPN, former Penn State players are planning a rally at tomorrows game to support Joe Paterno and the coaching staff, with one player raising money for Sandusky's legal defense.

Can the NCAA please step in and give Penn State football the death penalty now?

Please tell me that isnt true.

[molson]

I hope they've brought in some therapists or something for the players to deal with all this....Everybody's entitled to a defense but Sandusky's represented, he doesn't need the money, he'll have his attorney...No player needs to put himself out there and make that offer and expose himself to criticism. He needs better advice from someone, but there's nobody at Penn St to give it to him. Probably the entire coaching staff is just worried about criminal and civil liability at this point. They need to bring in somebody from the outside to help the team through the season.

[Ben E Lou]

Molson, he means a former player.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Molson, he means a former player.

Thank god. It's probably Matt Millen.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

Thank god. It's probably Matt Millen.

He was an honorary member of 'The Second Mile' but with his reaction on ESPN Id highly doubt its him.

[Ben E Lou]

Cinder blocks thrown threw a bedroom window at Sandusky's home. No one injured.

[Lathum]

It's some former player from the 50's and he donated $100. IMO still makes him a piece of shit. Sandusky will get his day in court with a public defender if need be. If this guy wants to donate to a cause, donate to a foundation that supports abuse victims, not to the defending of a monster.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by molson

I hope they've brought in some therapists or something for the players to deal with all this....

I'm sorry.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It's some former player from the 50's and he donated $100. IMO still makes him a piece of shit. Sandusky will get his day in court with a public defender if need be. If this guy wants to donate to a cause, donate to a foundation that supports abuse victims, not to the defending of a monster.

this

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Per ESPN, former Penn State players are planning a rally at tomorrows game to support Joe Paterno and the coaching staff, with one player raising money for Sandusky's legal defense.

Can the NCAA please step in and give Penn State football the death penalty now?

Here is the story.

What a fucking idiot.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Here is the story.

What a fucking idiot.

"I know some of the guys sent money," Stellatella told The Associated Press. "Here's the thing, these are horrendous charges against him. But he's still entitled to his day in court. Everybody's prejudged him. He's done horrendous damage to Paterno and (athletic director Tim) Curley and the football program. I don't listen to the news and I don't read the reports of what he did because I would get too upset.

.

[Ben E Lou]

McQueary placed on leave.

[BYU 14]

I have no problem with the former players going to the game to support the current players and the program as a whole and they seemed pretty clear it was not to support Paterno alone.

Sam Stellatella is a fucking moron. Yes Sandusky deserves his day in court, but he is the one that "scheduled" his day in court and he can pay for it his damn self, hopefully he is the only that donated because in my mind Sandusky has gotten far too many freebies over the the last 13 years and is unworthy of sympathy or charity.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Matthean

.

Yeah....I stand by my statement.

[gkb]

[thesloppy]

I'm sure the few hundred dollars that Stellatella is going to help raise will lure Ben Matlock to defend Sandusky. He's pretending that he's strictly grandstanding over due process, but unless he's given $100 to every arrested person he's ever heard of, his supposedly absolutist logic kind of falls apart. I guess "Every high profile person associated with my Alma Mater's football program who's arrested for allegedly raping multiple children deserves his day in court." doesn't have quite the same ring.

[tarcone]

4* OL Joey O'Connor decommits to PSU.

Is this the definition of Lack Of Institutional Control? Or is this Overcontrol?

I am beginning to agree with the whole "give them the death penalty and start fresh in a couple years" talk.

[Dutch]

I'm still confused why the school wanted to cover this up to begin with? My guess is they wanted to fry his ass but he had some kind of retort such as, "Sure, call the cops, and I'll call ESPN about all these recruiting violations..."

My prediction is that Penn State is going to get absolutely crushed once all the facts come out on this. They are SMU jr.

[gkb]

I hadn't seen this yet today...

The investigation into the alleged abuse expanded Thursday to Texas as new allegations surfaced alleging Sandusky molested a boy in San Antonio twice in the 1990s.

[RomaGoth]

Anyone ever see this article?

Mark Madden | 21 comments The Jerry Sandusky situation seems a matter of failure to connect certain dots, or perhaps unwillingness in that regard. Lots of people besides the former Penn State defensive coordinator have some explaining to do.
Allegations of improper conduct with an underage male first surfaced in 1998, while Sandusky was still employed by Penn State. That incident allegedly occurred in a shower at Penn State's on-campus football facility. No charges were filed.
Sandusky retired the next year, in 1999. He was 55, prime age for a coach. Odd, to say the least - especially with Joe Paterno thought even then to be ready to quit and Sandusky a likely, openly-discussed successor.
It seems logical to ask: What did Paterno know, and when did he know it? What did Penn State's administration know, and when did they know it?
Best-case scenario: Charges are never brought, and Sandusky walks away with his reputation permanently scarred. The rumors, the jokes, the sideways glances - they won't ever stop. Paterno and Penn State do the great escape.
Worst-case scenario: Sandusky is charged. Then it seems reasonable to wonder: Did Penn State not make an issue of Sandusky's alleged behavior in 1998 in exchange for him walking away from the program at an age premature for most coaches? Did Penn State's considerable influence help get Sandusky off the hook?
Don't kid yourself. That could happen. Don't underestimate the power of Paterno and Penn State in central Pennsylvania when it comes to politicians, the police and the media.
In 1999, Penn State was rid of Sandusky. His rep was unblemished, which allowed him to continue running a charitable foundation that gave him access to underage males. To be a volunteer assistant with a high school football team, thus gaining access to underage males.
If Paterno and Penn State knew, but didn't act, instead facilitating Sandusky's untroubled retirement - are Paterno and Penn State responsible for untoward acts since committed by Sandusky?
This is far from an outrageous hypothesis, especially given the convenient timeline.
Initially accused in 1998. Retires in 1999. Never coaches college football again. Sandusky was very successful at what he did. The architect of Linebacker U. Helped win national championships in 1982 and 1986. Recognized as college football's top assistant in 1986 and 1999.
Never any stories about Sandusky being pursued for a high-profile job. Never any rumors about him coming out of retirement.
But there's no shortage of stories and rumors about Penn State football sweeping problems under the rug, is there?
Why did college football let an accomplished coach like Sandusky walk away at 55? Why did he disappear into relative anonymity?
A grand jury, spurred by a complaint made by a 15-year-old boy in 2009, has been investigating Sandusky for 18 months. Witnesses include Paterno and Penn State athletic director Tim Curley. Interviewing Paterno about a subject like this had to have been one of the single most uncomfortable acts in the history of jurisprudence.
Plenty of questions remain yet unanswered. Potentially among them: What's more important, Penn State football or the welfare of a few kids?
You might not want to hear the answer.
Mark Madden hosts a radio show 3-6 p.m. weekdays on WXDX-FM (105.9).

© 2011 Timesonline.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Ugh.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Anyone ever see this article?



Ugh.

Link was posted earlier.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I'm sorry.

I chuckled...

[molson]

If you're in the State College area you can still pick up a copy of Sandusky's book, "Touched" at the campus bookstore.

Jerry Sandusky's autobiography, 'Touched,' is still available at The Penn State Bookstore | PennLive.com

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The problem with this is that JoPa gave him his chance in 98 and let it go without saying a word about it. It happened AGAIN in 2002 when JoPa knew full well what a scumbag he was. JoPa likely didnt want to kill his recruiting and the Penn St reputation so he thought they could all get away with it. He played with fire and lost. I should say he played with fire and the kids lost.

Yes, Joe "AssRaper" Paterno, clearly knew what was going on and played along with a cover up for his own benefit. Part of his wealth the last few years was built through the exploitation of child victims since 2002.

Some people enjoy being willfully ignorant, that they would choose this as one of their battles just shows they are idiots.

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by Radii

Disagree 100%. He qualifies things repeatedly throughout, points out that he agrees with the fact that Paterno should not coach again and that Paterno had a responsibility here that he failed to live up to. But in general I think that what he has to say is very much worth reading and well thought out and well reasoned.

I don't see it as well reasoned at all. You don't have to stand up for Paterno, and Joe AssRaper DID put his legacy over the safety of kids. He is taking part in our cover up culture that it is 'only wrong if your caught', he got caught, now it is his turn to get some ass reaming.

Don't talk about the guys morals on the little things, when he is in the public view, or doing his every day routine... I know lots of people who go out of their way every day to do right by others and make their lives easier. They don't get any recognition because they are not famous.

He is famous, his fame is predicated on misery of children to preserve it, so lauding him as some class act when he doesn't have the simple class to stomp out scum from his presence (yet alone forget to go to the police) is just stupid.

People are attacking his ethics, they are attacking his legacy (because he essentially is guilty of the sin of PRIDE so it is relevant), and they are attacking his fucking competence to do a damn thing other than shit his pants.

No one is afraid to defend him because they think it might be considered a complicit defense of a child molester. Besides this board I've encountered several people arguing for it from numerous angles. Not once has it been about defending Paterno is advocating child abuse... most of the talk centers around the nature of ethics and our culture (most people I think do whole heartedly believe in sweeping shit under the rug and hoping it never comes out, doesn't make it right or worthy of emulation, and is a reason so many bad guys get away with so much shit that fucks up your lives without you even knowing it, but I digress).

Some of us believe people should strive for a faith other than "Not my problem".

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by Drake

I completely agree with you.

It's the "just as responsible as the guy who was ramming his dick into little kids" hyperbole where *I* start howling.

And if I hear the "All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing" line one more time, I'm probably going to kick somebody's dog. Paterno and McQueary, at least, didn't do "nothing". They did what they were legally obligated to do. It was certainly not enough. They did the absolute bare minimum. It was not, I hope, what I would do in their shoes. Blah, blah, blah. (The fact that even trying to be non-hysterical and non-inflammatory requires me to write paragraphs where I have to pre-emptively defend my character, moral compass and ethical judgment is absurd.)

But some of the conversation I'm seeing isn't even happy to just squeal about failures. It insists on painting this as some sort of child molesting conspiracy. Paterno and McQueary and everyone else up the chain who didn't try to stop it were part of some child gang-bang ring, and Sandusky was really *their* pipeline to kids.

To me, that's the danger of excessive hyperbole and moral outrage howling, because the above paragraph is, I think, patently stupid, and anyone jumping to that sort of conclusion based on the evidence available, would suggest to me that they're deeply, deeply disturbed.

(I know, I know, it's like I'm just learning that the internet is full of idiots.)

Its a quid pro quo situation, Penn State put Sandusky on easy street so he wouldn't talk. It is obvious (to me) that this is what happens. This is why you see no police report. An 'unenforcable' restriction on bringing kids to campus. An unexpected resignation, followed by unlimited access to campus and influence to keep his charity open and access to abuse kids.

Paterno and Penn State did not want any tarnish on their trophy case, so they hushed it up. I won't bother with the conspiracy theories on the AD, or who knew what when (other than the obvious). Sandusky offered silence for Penn State reputation, and Paterno was as eager as the rest of them to buy it... so much they gave Sandusky a sweet deal that played right into what he needed to keep enticing kids into his trap... access to facilities and lots of assurances that it was all under the rug.

You get what you pay for, and in my opinion Paterno paid for more child sex to occur, Sandusky to get more perks, and oh, to keep his sterling reputation as BEST COACH EVA!!! nice and healthy. He got 9 years of continued hero worship as the crimes kept piling up, well he can pay some of that back now.

Anyone who knowingly contributed to this mess with the intent to profit from it is an accomplice to rape in my opinion. Call it hyperbole all you want, at least I'm consistently pissed off about things and don't flip flop like a limp noodle when it comes towards one of my pet interests like football.

I think the situation is worst than what most people are talking about. They are seeing it as 'he could have done a bit more', I'm seeing it as 'he deliberately did as little as he could to profit from it'. That is my position, and therefore my stronger vitriol towards everyone's tarnished icon. If it was just incompetence maybe I'd show a little more balance, but I see the dollar signs in this, and it sickens the fuck out of me. To hell with you if you think otherwise.

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Maybe not every single one, but I'm starting to lean more and more in this general direction. This is starting to smell like a situation where one lie or cover-up led to bigger lies and cover-ups to the point where they couldn't afford to do anything but pretend everything was fine and hope no one would come forward.

Which excuses nothing of course... this is what it takes to be a man, you screw up, at some point you acknowledge your mistake, take your punishment, but do your best to set things right.

Covering up is a sin as disgusting as whatever you are covering up.

[RedKingGold]

I'm glad SportsDino has all the answers, and knows all the facts of what did and did not happen behind the scenes in Penn State. Otherwise, all of his above posts would be hyperbole.

[RedKingGold]

This New York Times article draws a nice parallel between the Catholic Church and Penn State scandals, and the following resonated with me:

Bad and mediocre people are tempted to sin by their own habitual weaknesses. The earlier lies or thefts or adulteries make the next one that much easier to contemplate. Having already cut so many corners, the thinking goes, what’s one more here or there? Why even aspire to virtues that you probably won’t achieve, when it’s easier to remain the sinner that you already know yourself to be?

But good people, heroic people, are led into temptation by their very goodness — by the illusion, common to those who have done important deeds, that they have higher responsibilities than the ordinary run of humankind. It’s precisely in the service to these supposed higher responsibilities that they often let more basic ones slip away.

Though, I believe it remains unanswered whether Paterno qualifies as a "good" or "bad" person as described above. I hope whatever investigation occurs helps solve that.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I do cut McQueary some slack on the night he witnessed Sandusky in the shower. I think everyone assumes the assault continued, but I sort of doubt that Sandusky would have carried on after being "caught". So my take, without any facts to support it, is that McQueary did effectively end the assault just by his appearance. To assume otherwise damns McQueary more than I believe is supported by the facts.

I don't assume anything. What bothers me is why wouldn't he call the cops right away? Why wouldn't he get the kid out of there to make sure nothing else happened? I'm not an internet tough guy, despite my real martial arts training Sandusky might have beat the living hell out of me. . . but there is no way if I saw what was reported in that grand jury report that he would leave before police arrived unless he killed me first.

[Ben E Lou]

Heh. Or maybe it won't get any worse...

Judge Who Set Unsecured Bail For Jerry Sandusky Is a Second Mile Volunteer

[General Mike]

‘We are Penn State’ evokes a range of emotions - Dan Le Batard - MiamiHerald.com

[cartman]

The only way I see a scandal eclipsing this one in both shock of allegations and stature of a program is if it comes to light that Coach K helped to cover up human vivisection experiments at Duke. The healing process is going to take a LONG time for PSU.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I'm having a hard time imaging this not getting worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is something that never reaches any kind of final/acceptable resolution, and details of various size/flavor/credibility trickle out for years and years.

[JPhillips]

Then there's this:

"I didn't even know he was leaving the school with my child," the mother said. "I didn't know he was taking him out of classes. They never told me that."

Victim One's mother told the Patriot-News that officials at Central Mountain High School urged her to think twice about how she wanted to handle the situation, "how that would impact my son," she said

.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

This. It just makes me dislike them even more.

And it makes me dislike alumnis of any schools even worse.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Then there's this:
.

In the end, I think you're going to see this thing is much bigger than Penn State and involves several public and private entities.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

In the end, I think you're going to see this thing is much bigger than Penn State and involves several public and private entities.

And yet the OTL report for ESPN is basically asking the question, "How did nobody know?" I think a wide amount of people knew, or simply turned a blind eye to the situation.

OTL - State Of Shock - ESPN Video - ESPN

[Matthean]

.