Jerry Sandusky thread

[Ben E Lou]

Dola:

I don't recall if the Switzer stuff got posted here, but here's one report on it.

Barry Switzer on Penn State scandal: 'Everyone on that staff had to have known' - NCAA Football - Sporting News

[spleen1015]

I think it is time for me to stop reading this thread. Every time some new gets posted, my blood pressure goes up.

This guy is lucky I wasn't nor one of my kids were one of his victims. He'd be dead.

[Ksyrup]

And you wonder when UVA passed on Sandusky for HC because of his "devotion to the charity," if someone at UVA didn't dig up something and couch it as (at the time) some innocuous "he's so darned devoted to those kids that he wouldn't have time to coach" explanation for why they never pursued him any further.

[Autumn]

Yeah I've thought that the number of times "too devoted to his charity" have come up, that must have been code. I mean would someone really not hire a coach because they're too devoted to a charity. That seems like a weird response.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Dola:

I don't recall if the Switzer stuff got posted here, but here's one report on it.

Barry Switzer on Penn State scandal: 'Everyone on that staff had to have known' - NCAA Football - Sporting News

The part that resonates the most with this:

“You think that a 13-year assistant ... hasn’t told someone else? His wife? His father? People knew. The community knew,” Switzer said.
Switzer said the tragedy of the situation was that no one stepped up to put a stop to Sandusky.
“There are more people culpable than just Joe Paterno and the athletic director. There are so many other people that have thought, ‘I could’ve done something about this, too’ that didn’t come forward. That’s the tragedy of it,” he said.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I think it is time for me to stop reading this thread. Every time some new gets posted, my blood pressure goes up.

This guy is lucky I wasn't nor one of my kids were one of his victims. He'd be dead.

This is probably why he "preyed" on these kids in unstable environments. This sick bastard planned his entire life around this.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I had read some stuff that took it back to 1994 but this stuff from the 70's is just ridiculous. How does a living, breathing, piece of shit like Sandusky get away with this for nearly 40 years?

Worked for a football program that puts their image above children getting raped.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Worked for a football program that puts their image above children getting raped.

It appears to be more than just one football program. As others have mentioned, his retirement and subsequent removal from consideration as the next HC at Virginia is suspicious.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

It appears to be more than just one football program. As others have mentioned, his retirement and subsequent removal from consideration as the next HC at Virginia is suspicious.

Wait. I'm confused, suspicious in what regard? I thought the Virginia thing is evidence that people around Penn State likely knew about it, if others in the football community knew. You're criticizing UVA for not hiring him? What are they supposed to do?

[Klinglerware]

If I'm interpreting it right, I think that RomaGoth's implying that UVA (or any other football program) had some sort of obligation to report it if they caught wind of the abuse allegations at PSU

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

If I'm interpreting it right, I think that RomaGoth's implying that UVA (or any other football program) had some sort of obligation to report it if they caught wind of the abuse allegations at PSU

Pretty much. Just like Switzer said in that article earlier, a lot of people more than likely knew about this or at least had suspicions and that probably includes other universities (obviously I don't know for sure if this is true).

[Grover]

Ugh.

Syracuse police investigating Bernie Fine about molesting boy in 1980s - ESPN

Wonder if these sorts of stories are going to start coming out of the woodwork

[digamma]

But what I'm guessing they caught wind of is that there was a 1998 investigation or allegations surrounding that investigation.

Compliance Guy: "Hey Terry, there might be some baggage with the Sandusky hire. He was investigated a couple of years ago for horsing around with kids."

Terry Holland: "Oh dear. We won't hire him. AND let's call that police force back and tell them to investigate him further."

I just don't see how that's plausible.

I also think another really likely explanation of the impasse here is that Sandusky didn't want to give up living in State College and his access to his drug dealer, the Second Mile charity. "I've got a good retirement income from Penn State and free access to kids. I'm not moving to Charlottesville."

[SirFozzie]

Now there's a story about a Syracuse coach molesting a ball boy on espn

[Suicane75]

I know nobody watches ESPN anymore but I think someone would have seen that.

[molson]

And it's another guy with an apparently stalled coaching career...I mean, he's still there, but he's been an assistant for decades.

On the one hand, not a lot of info there, but on the other hand, unlike Penn St, there's actually an alleged victim's name - Bobby Davis. He put himself out there, and apparently gave a ton details.

[SirFozzie]

Sounds a bit fishy.. sounds like it was reviewed in 2005 and there was no corroboration. It may be being rebrought up now because he feels like he'll find a friendlier audience due to the sandusky thing

[molson]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Sounds a bit fishy.. sounds like it was reviewed in 2005 and there was no corroboration. It may be being rebrought up now because he feels like he'll find a friendlier audience due to the sandusky thing

It sounds like ESPN, Syracuse, and the police had the allegations in 2003 but found nothing to corroborate the confessions. But Sandusky apparently inspired a second alleged victim to come forward, so now the 2003 story is public. (But why are the police investigating it all over again now?)

Who knows, but I still think, despite some of the rhetoric, there's no easy answers about how an organization responds. Let's you have the single alleged victim saying something. Do you fire the guy immediately no matter what? In the name of safety? What if police already have been informed?

I'm not exactly sure who made it public today though, whether it was the police or ESPN. Certainly, the police were all too happy to share that they were investigating him for child molestation specifically. I don't think future allegations are going to stay out of the public eye for 8-10 years.

[molson]

Interesting part too: "Davis said he was molested by Fine until he was around 27 years old".....that's a point in favor of accuser credibility, IMO, because that's kind of a strange fact...seems somewhat less likely for someone to make that up. "I got molested as a kid" is easy enough without throwing in "it continued 9 years into adulthood"....and I'm sure child molester situations develop into adult, psychologically-dominating relationships all the time.

[tarcone]

I would liuke to know how these guys coached. Were they the guys who demanded complete control of the players in teaching situations? Were they hard or were they, literally, hands on?
I think the psychology of this could be very enlightening.

[RedKingGold]

I'm sure they were both hard and hands on.

[EagleFan]

Bye bye Boeheim?

[molson]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I would liuke to know how these guys coached. Were they the guys who demanded complete control of the players in teaching situations? Were they hard or were they, literally, hands on?
I think the psychology of this could be very enlightening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz346ZF0YLM

(From the Sardusky linebacker DVD...not safe for those who would be offended by sex offender humor...which is of course, a very reasonable thing to be offended by).

[Senator]

Have had this DVD for years. In the trash.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Bye bye Boeheim?

well, they're gonna lynch him if he's lying

“This matter was fully investigated by the University in 2005 and it was determined that the allegations were unfounded. I have known Bernie Fine for more than 40 years. I have never seen or witnessed anything to suggest that he would been involved in any of the activities alleged. Had I seen or suspected anything, I would have taken action. Bernie has my full support.”

“Why wouldn’t he come to the police (first this time)? Why would he go to ESPN? What are people looking for here? I believe they are looking for money. I believe they saw what happened at Penn State and they are using ESPN to get money. That is what I believe. You want to put that on the air? Put that on the air.”

if this turns up shit i'm done with sports. cuse hoops was my last sanctuary.

[molson]

I think Boeheim's sincere, but I'll be the first to lynch him (not literally), if he's lying. It's good to see him talking right away and reacting the way a sincere person would - "Hey, I haven't seen shit". No cancelled press conferences followed by phony "attempted" press conferences.

[molson]

Davis claims that Boeheim saw him Fine's hotel rooms, Boeheim says he's a liar:

"Boeheim saw me with Bernie all the time in the hotel rooms, on road trips," Davis said. "He'd come in, and see me laying in the bed, kind of glance at me like, 'What are you doing here?' But he wouldn't say that. He'd just scowl. And I would look at him like, I'd be nervous. I felt embarrassed 'cause I felt stupid that I'm there. I'm not supposed to be here. I know it, and Boeheim's not stupid."

Boeheim denied seeing Davis in Fine's room.

"He makes the point that he was around and traveling with the team," Boeheim said. "Not that I know of. I never saw him. He is quoted -- (that) I saw him in the room. I have never been in Bernie Fine's room in my life. That is an outright lie."

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by molson

I think Boeheim's sincere, but I'll be the first to lynch him (not literally), if he's lying. It's good to see him talking right away and reacting the way a sincere person would - "Hey, I haven't seen shit". No cancelled press conferences followed by phony "attempted" press conferences.

This story has taken a few strange twists already.

Jimmy B just went all in with his statements, which makes me feel better.

I noticed ESPN didn't report this, about the accuser Davis:

"Davis said he broke off all contact with Fine in 2001 because, Davis said, Fine grabbed him by the neck at Manley Field House and demanded repayment of a $5,000 loan he’d given him — a debt Davis admits he never paid"

So, I'm all in with Coach.

If this is all untrue, I hope Bernie sues the shit out of ESPN. Maybe we'll get a nice new shiny Carrier Dome. If it is true, fuck.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by digamma

But what I'm guessing they caught wind of is that there was a 1998 investigation or allegations surrounding that investigation.

Compliance Guy: "Hey Terry, there might be some baggage with the Sandusky hire. He was investigated a couple of years ago for horsing around with kids."

Terry Holland: "Oh dear. We won't hire him. AND let's call that police force back and tell them to investigate him further."

I just don't see how that's plausible.

I also think another really likely explanation of the impasse here is that Sandusky didn't want to give up living in State College and his access to his drug dealer, the Second Mile charity. "I've got a good retirement income from Penn State and free access to kids. I'm not moving to Charlottesville."

Yeah, my comment was only that the rumors might have gotten to UVA and that factored into their decision not to hire him. Not that they should have reported 5th-hand allegations they probably only got a whiff of hundreds of miles away.

[Ksyrup]

There's also some sort of camp counselor thing at The Citadel that has come out recently. Hasn't gotten much pub, but I saw a story about it yesterday.

[IrishHand]

I was thinking last night about the fact that Sandusky is being defended publicly by that one adopted son (33-year old Matt, brought into Sandusky home at age 10). Obviously conjecture...but it seems to me that it is extremely likely that Sandusky abused him...and those most likely to commit child abuse are those who suffered abuse as a child. It seems to me that it's not at all improbable that Sandusky has bred at least one more serial molester, which would be more than enough motivation to defend him publicly.

(Not saying that this happened, of course - I was just trying to figure out why a victim might support someone he had to know was victimizing others, and clearly continued to do so after the personal victimization occurred.)

[RedKingGold]

Well, I think it is possible he did not molest his adopted son. It seems like a standard MO for pedophiles to surround him or herself with a bunch of children, then cherry-pick those he or she is most attracted too.

I believe it's part of the satisficing process which goes on in their heads: "Look at all these children I'm helping, who cares if there's a handful - who are coming on to me - that I might take advantage of."

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Marmel

If this is all untrue, I hope Bernie sues the shit out of ESPN.

Why? The media is in the clear here. They never reported "Bernie Fine molested kids." They reported "Syracuse Police have opened an investigation." and interviewed potential victims. The item about police opening an investigation is true, and its news. If the allegations prove to be untrue, they can't be hold responsible if the people they interview happen to lie.

[Ksyrup]

There's an article out there about that adopted son, and the mother believes his exposure to Sandusky screwed up his life. I don't think she comes out and claims sexual abuse, but that he changed drastically after living with him for some time.

Here it is:

Penn State Scandal: Mother of Sandusky's Adopted Son Speaks Out - ABC News

He tried committing suicide after 4 months living with Sandusky.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There's also some sort of camp counselor thing at The Citadel that has come out recently. Hasn't gotten much pub, but I saw a story about it yesterday.

It's front-page-nearly-every-day news here. There are some similarities, but the differences are why it hasn't gotten much national publicity. Briefly...

• In 2002 (there's that year again) a Citadel cadet named Skip Reville is a camp counselor at a camp run by the Citadel. He invites several teenaged male campers into his room and they watch porn on his computer and masturbate. (He didn't touch any of them.)
• The 2002 incident is reported in 2007 by one of the campers. The Citadel investigates, but doesn't go to the police. (It is in a legal dispute whether they were required to.)
• Reville graduated from the Citadel in 2002, and since then...

  After graduating from The Citadel in 2002, ReVille went on to serve as a teacher and assistant coach at Pinewood Preparatory School in Summerville, a tennis coach at Bishop England High School, a coach at the Mount Pleasant Recreation Department, a basketball coach at Moultrie Middle School, a travel league basketball coach, a coach at Velocity Sports Performance in Mount Pleasant, an occasional volunteer basketball coach at Rollings Middle School of the Arts in Summerville, a foster parent to four children and a youth group leader at Eastbridge Presbyterian Church in Mount Pleasant.

• Two weeks ago, he is charge with molesting five boys in Mt. Pleasant. Hanahan police (another Charleston suburb) are now also preparing charges. Odds are he's been molesting boys all over the Lowcountry for nearly the past decade.

It hasn't made national news because there's no sports program involved, no big-time power, it's possible that no one other than the molester actually broke any existing laws, and the original charges, even if they'd been reported in 2002 and investigated by the police, probably wouldn't have earned him sex offender status and may not have kept him from getting a job working with kids. On the other hand, it's fairly clear that the complaint was covered up, probably to protect the reputation of the institution.






SIDE NOTE: I guess I was naive, but understand my perspective here. As an 18-year-old college freshman, before I was allowed to do youth ministry as a Young Life volunteer in the housing projects across the street from my college campus, I was told that reporting sexual or physical abuse was legally required of me. And I just assumed that it was because it was the law that *every* adult had to. Evidently in most (all?) states, that's not the case. Turns out I was legally required only because YL as an organization is a "mandatory reporting agency." But yeah, for 17 years I was deeply ingrained in a culture where there was simply no other choice, beyond the fact that it's the right thing to do. So I guess that's part of why this whole deal is so abhorrent to me.



SIDE NOTE 2: Y'all are right that the whole "protect the reputation" thing is pretty stupid. I haven't mentioned it, but even the average teenager understood why we reported stuff to the authorities, and that if we hadn't and it ever came out that we hadn't, YL as an organization would pretty much no longer exist in their community. The short-sightedness of adults in these situations is what amazes me.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Why? The media is in the clear here. They never reported "Bernie Fine molested kids." They reported "Syracuse Police have opened an investigation." and interviewed potential victims. The item about police opening an investigation is true, and its news. If the allegations prove to be untrue, they can't be hold responsible if the people they interview happen to lie.

Last night when the story broke, Schwartz never say accused and he embelished the story a bit. Since then he has re-done the story cleaning it up a lot, but that initial story was pretty sloppy.

[flounder]

Saw this on Every Day Should Be Saturday

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Marmel

Last night when the story broke, Schwartz never say accused and he embelished the story a bit. Since then he has re-done the story cleaning it up a lot, but that initial story was pretty sloppy.

I agree when they had Schwartz live on camera, his verbiage was as if he was stating these things having happened as fact. Still, I don't think there is a lawsuit here. The police are investigating, interviews with the accusers, alongside those of the accused and/or their representatives amount to balanced coverage in this day and age, and they gave ample opportunity for Fine, Boeheim and Syracuse University to give their side of the story.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Grover

Ugh.

Syracuse police investigating Bernie Fine about molesting boy in 1980s - ESPN

Wonder if these sorts of stories are going to start coming out of the woodwork

Also worried that stuff like this could spin out of control and lead to something similar to the 80s daycare witch hunt hysteria.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

NCAA to investigate Penn State for "institutional control" issues.

Link

Now finally the unfettered truth will come out.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

NCAA to investigate Penn State for "institutional control" issues.

Link

Now finally the unfettered truth will come out.

See I was wondering why the NCAA wasn't doing this at Penn State almost the instant all of this came out. When this stuff happens on campus, in the football training facility, and in the locker room, how it could be ignored by the NCAA is beyond me.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

See I was wondering why the NCAA wasn't doing this at Penn State almost the instant all of this came out. When this stuff happens on campus, in the football training facility, and in the locker room, how it could be ignored by the NCAA is beyond me.

I think it's the unprecedented nature of this situation that may have thrown them for a loop. They know what to do when they hear of a player selling a jersey. They may even have a nice little list of what to do. But I'm guessing they had no protocol for a member school--from the janitors to the president--allegedly covering up decades of child molestation.

[DeToxRox]

http://www.psu.edu/ur/2011/NCAA.pdf

[DaddyTorgo]

If you play Penn State vs Ohio State on ‘NCAA 12’, the headline for the preview says, “Hide the Children”.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I think it's the unprecedented nature of this situation that may have thrown them for a loop. They know what to do when they hear of a player selling a jersey. They may even have a nice little list of what to do. But I'm guessing they had no protocol for a member school--from the janitors to the president--allegedly covering up decades of child molestation.

I am willing to bet they will come up with something after all of this.

[Grover]

Good News for PSU...if true - Black Shoe Diaries

Interesting. Take this for what it's worth.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Grover

Good News for PSU...if true - Black Shoe Diaries

Interesting. Take this for what it's worth.

They can't fire him, but they can decide not to bar Sandusky? Unless the reason they couldn't fire him a few years back is because he would blow the whistle on them not barring Sandusky when they had the chance.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

If he had the authority to ban Sandusky from football facilities, as the link says, and he wanted to do it, then why was Sandusky working out in the football weight room the day before this was all released?

Yeah, that's the huge gaping hole in that story right there.

[bob]

Former Penn State coach Joe Paterno has a treatable form of lung cancer, according to his son.

Read more: Ex-Penn State coach*Joe Paterno has treatable form of lung cancer - NCAA Football - SI.com