accelerated night actions

[Lathum]

just wondering what people think about posting the night results before the deadline. I understand the reasoning for doing it but Saldana brings up a good point that people may not be able to get "their say " in.

I also think people can use that as a tool to see who is online and may have submited their action.

I think overall we should go to a policy where night actions are posted at or before the deadline in fairness to all.

This post is by no means spurned on by raiders game, just an overall thought I have had for a while.

[st.cronin]

I am very much in favor of this. The only reason to have a night deadline is to allow people enough time to get their actions in - normally there is very little game chatter, and the wolves shouldn't be spending 12 hours trying to decide who to kill.

My next game, night actions will be due BEFORE the votes are tallied. I think that's the way the game should be played.

[path12]

Some games I've played in before have a no posting at night rule. That's an option. Personally, I like the ability to have discussion at night, but that's a GM call.

[st.cronin]

dola

The other thing is, accelerated night means a longer day. I think that's good for the game.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Lathum

just wondering what people think about posting the night results before the deadline. I understand the reasoning for doing it but Saldana brings up a good point that people may not be able to get "their say " in.

I also think people can use that as a tool to see who is online and may have submited their action.

I think overall we should go to a policy where night actions are posted at or before the deadline in fairness to all.

This post is by no means spurned on by raiders game, just an overall thought I have had for a while.

I agree. I think that the fairness aspect of it was that I said that the deadline was going to be at a certain time (9 AM EST) and then did something totally different without any warning or consensus of the players. If I had said upfront that that was going to happen, I don't think it would be a problem.

[Lathum]

I think the GM needs to start including in the rules set if the night actions will ever be accelerated

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

dola

The other thing is, accelerated night means a longer day. I think that's good for the game.

I don't really think that the day phase needs to be too much longer. As it is there are a lot of days where the discussion really dies down in the middle because there is no time pressure.

Also, going to no night deadlines and such is going to make it harder on people with certain time limitations. If you have to submit a night action at 3pm because you won't be able to check in again until the late evening you're really getting shafted in the change over. It also means that there isn't time to consider the repercussions of something like a duked lynch.

That's not to say I don't support cronin doing his simul day/night phase game. I think it'd be a really interesting experiment, but it's not something I think should be incorporated into every game.

To address Lathum's concern, I also don't like it when the night results are posted before the established deadline without the GM saying that is a possibility. If we have a night deadline and are going to allow people to change their night actions then the deadline needs to be a deadline. We can't have it so people submit their night actions thinking they might get to change them later and then have the rug pulled out from under them without warning. It might not come up often, but it's still a legitimate concern.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I don't really think that the day phase needs to be too much longer. As it is there are a lot of days where the discussion really dies down in the middle because there is no time pressure.

Also, going to no night deadlines and such is going to make it harder on people with certain time limitations. If you have to submit a night action at 3pm because you won't be able to check in again until the late evening you're really getting shafted in the change over. It also means that there isn't time to consider the repercussions of something like a duked lynch.

That's not to say I don't support cronin doing his simul day/night phase game. I think it'd be a really interesting experiment, but it's not something I think should be incorporated into every game.

To address Lathum's concern, I also don't like it when the night results are posted before the established deadline without the GM saying that is a possibility. If we have a night deadline and are going to allow people to change their night actions then the deadline needs to be a deadline. We can't have it so people submit their night actions thinking they might get to change them later and then have the rug pulled out from under them without warning. It might not come up often, but it's still a legitimate concern.

- Certainly it's important for the GM to explain what is going to happen. I think that's reasonable.

- If people are willing to change their night actions based on chatter that happens during the night cycle, I think that is an unfair advantage. It also doesn't happen very often.

- I don't know of any game where a gm has refused to take a conditional order. For example, the "seer" might send three names, and say the player with the least amount of votes at the end of the day is his target. There is no limit to how creative people could get with these. Bodyguard: "I wish to protect myself, unless a) I am one of the top two vote-getters or b) somebody reveals as the seer. If a) then protect player x, if b) protect player z."

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

- Certainly it's important for the GM to explain what is going to happen. I think that's reasonable.

- If people are willing to change their night actions based on chatter that happens during the night cycle, I think that is an unfair advantage. It also doesn't happen very often.

- I don't know of any game where a gm has refused to take a conditional order. For example, the "seer" might send three names, and say the player with the least amount of votes at the end of the day is his target. There is no limit to how creative people could get with these. Bodyguard: "I wish to protect myself, unless a) I am one of the top two vote-getters or b) somebody reveals as the seer. If a) then protect player x, if b) protect player z."

Good points. However, in the second case I wasn't really thinking about night chatter as much as I was thinking about what Alan did in this game -- struggle with a decision for a long time, then decide to change his mind in the morning. Although that is a downside of the night chatter, as you say.

The problem with conditional orders though is that the order giver has to know which conditions are going to come up, though. WW games are so dynamic that it's really hard to anticipate all the possibilities. A main element also involves reading people to try to evaluate them based on their actions. There really isn't a way to code, "Guard Alan if he makes a post that says <> because that indicates he might be the seer." I think elements like that are often more important than easy to quantify and condition things like vote counts.

[Abe Sargent]

I always ran mine at deadline time veen if everyone had submitted, although, to be fair, I would do the writeup early if everyone had turned in their night actions.

[Abe Sargent]

Dola - i other word,s the write up would be written ahead of time, but not posted until deadline.

[hoopsguy]

In terms of deadline actions, I have had games where I posted early if results were all in but I always included some variance in posting time to protect the wolves. I didn't want to tip people off by posting them right away, only to have someone who was watching the "Active Users" stuff be able to work backwards from my posting time.

[Alan T]

I probably have accelerated a night action before at times, but as a habit, I don't like the idea of doing it either. Several games where I had a pretty good inkling that I was the next night target, I've tried to time putting out info right before night actions are over just in case. Its just like the day deadline that everyone knows about, except in reverse.

I think its not a huge deal to accelerate day or night actions as long as everyone agrees to it. I don't think night action acceleration is any different than day deadline though in letting only certain people have the say on when to accelerate it.

[Grammaticus]

I like posting the night results early if everyone submits. I too waited a while after everyone sent in their actions, before I would post the results.

I have played in a game where the rule was, you could not send in night actions early. I think it sucked, especially if you could not be around for the night phase. You should be able to send in something like - I scan AlanT unless he is the lynch winner, then I will scan Tyrith. That way an action is not lost due to unavailability.

I also don't care if people can post during the night phase.