Jesus and Paul ABC Special anyone see it?

druez · 04-06-2004, 12:53 AM

I thought it was a great piece on christianity, very interesting and entertaining if you ask me.

Anyone else watch this?

The rifts of the "christian church" after Jesus's death were large. Most of them knew Jesus also and they couldn't agree. Makes sense that still today we have different sects of christianity.

revrew · 04-06-2004, 11:34 AM

Only saw bits and pieces. Was doing 100 other things at the time.

Your observation above sects is right on. As for rifts, etc, they continued right out of the same problems the early Judeo-Christian sect later known as "Christianity" suffered. Then, about 300 or so, Christianity became the national religion of Rome, thanks to emperor Constantine. But the mixing of government and faith required some degree of unity and authority. Church structures (rather than apostolic authority, like that of Peter and Paul) became governing bodies. This, in my opinion, only made the problems worse.

Then, round about 1000 (what was the date, 1100? 1120? something like that), there was a huge rift, called the schism, where the Western Roman church thought one guy ought to have the authority to hadle these questions and disputes, while the Eastern Byzantine church thought another guy ought to have that authority. Big Split #1.

Following the Western Roman church (the descendant of which is today's Catholic church), the thought was that apostolic authority could be passed on from one apostle (Peter) to the next, to the next. The Roman pope claims to be this successor today, and with that apostolic authority has the right to settle issues ala Peter and Paul.

Unfortunately, the church got wayyyy to mixed up in government and politics. Corruption hit both. Reform was needed. Some of it happened inside the Catholic church, but others said, "No way. You can't claim to be the church's one supreme apostle and be a complete ass at the same time. The pope can't be considered an apostle." And so, with guys like Luther, Calvin, Simons, etc., Big Rift #2.

Well, Luther and Calvin and the lot couldn't agree on several issues, and rather than getting things together, they just kept right on going their own ways. The biggest issues with these, however, from Luther (Lutherans) to Calvin (Reformed) to Wesley (Methodists) to Simons (Baptists) etc., though they argue about doctrine, has largely been with recognizing the established church needed reform. Organized religion doesn't work particularly well, no matter what religion it is. So, when a group decided they couldn't take the problems with the organized church anymore, they left to try to build something better (hence, "Free" Methodists of recent times, or the Evangelical Free Church, which took issue with the State religion of Lutheranism in Scandanavian countries and sought to build a church not connected with Government (hence, the word "free" again)) Most of the splinters haven't been about God, but about how to run a church.

Now. I know there are church historians who would scream at my oversimplification of things. Sorry, man, I tried to condense 2000 years into 5 paragraphs or less, while being fair to Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants.

druez · 04-06-2004, 01:06 PM

I don't remember the experts names, but one guy the black minister seemed to get it most of all. The way he handled issues that are contridictory in the bible really impressed me. Many of the rules came from Paul and he summed it up this way, which I found impressive. Paul was an apostle not the son of god. Paul and James along with the rest of the crew were human. They made human mistakes and all of their writings were done in a human fashion.

The message of Jesus is pure. That minister again explained it. Do you think Jesus would turn his back on a woman or tell her to be quiet? Do you think Jesus would turn his back on someone who is gay? All Jesus ever did was preach love, so all the rules and strictness came from his disiples interpration of Jesus's message.

I can be down with Jesus's message whether he was the son of god or not, but I'm just not down with everyone else's interpritations and rulemaking. i.e. disiples...

anyway, it was an interesting show and I enjoyed it.

Hammer755 · 04-06-2004, 01:30 PM

Of course, Jesus also said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." (John 14:15).

druez · 04-06-2004, 02:35 PM

I thought the old testiment got thrown out the window when Jesus died for our sins. I'm more confused then ever. When I bring up things from the OT, people usually say they don't apply now or are out date now that Jesus died to save us all.

More confused then ever.

Hammer755 · 04-06-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by druez

I thought the old testiment got thrown out the window when Jesus died for our sins. I'm more confused then ever. When I bring up things from the OT, people usually say they don't apply now or are out date now that Jesus died to save us all.

More confused then ever.

Your understanding is correct druez. By 'commandments', Jesus meant His teaching, and not the 'Ten Commandments' from the Old Law.

04-06-2004, 01:06 PM	#3
druez Banned Join Date: Nov 2003	I don't remember the experts names, but one guy the black minister seemed to get it most of all. The way he handled issues that are contridictory in the bible really impressed me. Many of the rules came from Paul and he summed it up this way, which I found impressive. Paul was an apostle not the son of god. Paul and James along with the rest of the crew were human. They made human mistakes and all of their writings were done in a human fashion. The message of Jesus is pure. That minister again explained it. Do you think Jesus would turn his back on a woman or tell her to be quiet? Do you think Jesus would turn his back on someone who is gay? All Jesus ever did was preach love, so all the rules and strictness came from his disiples interpration of Jesus's message. I can be down with Jesus's message whether he was the son of god or not, but I'm just not down with everyone else's interpritations and rulemaking. i.e. disiples... anyway, it was an interesting show and I enjoyed it. Last edited by druez : 04-06-2004 at 01:07 PM.

04-06-2004, 01:30 PM	#4
Hammer755 High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Houston, TX	Of course, Jesus also said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." (John 14:15). __________________ I failed Signature 101 class.

04-06-2004, 11:34 AM	#2
revrew Team Chaplain Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Just outside Des Moines, IA	Only saw bits and pieces. Was doing 100 other things at the time. Your observation above sects is right on. As for rifts, etc, they continued right out of the same problems the early Judeo-Christian sect later known as "Christianity" suffered. Then, about 300 or so, Christianity became the national religion of Rome, thanks to emperor Constantine. But the mixing of government and faith required some degree of unity and authority. Church structures (rather than apostolic authority, like that of Peter and Paul) became governing bodies. This, in my opinion, only made the problems worse. Then, round about 1000 (what was the date, 1100? 1120? something like that), there was a huge rift, called the schism, where the Western Roman church thought one guy ought to have the authority to hadle these questions and disputes, while the Eastern Byzantine church thought another guy ought to have that authority. Big Split #1. Following the Western Roman church (the descendant of which is today's Catholic church), the thought was that apostolic authority could be passed on from one apostle (Peter) to the next, to the next. The Roman pope claims to be this successor today, and with that apostolic authority has the right to settle issues ala Peter and Paul. Unfortunately, the church got wayyyy to mixed up in government and politics. Corruption hit both. Reform was needed. Some of it happened inside the Catholic church, but others said, "No way. You can't claim to be the church's one supreme apostle and be a complete ass at the same time. The pope can't be considered an apostle." And so, with guys like Luther, Calvin, Simons, etc., Big Rift #2. Well, Luther and Calvin and the lot couldn't agree on several issues, and rather than getting things together, they just kept right on going their own ways. The biggest issues with these, however, from Luther (Lutherans) to Calvin (Reformed) to Wesley (Methodists) to Simons (Baptists) etc., though they argue about doctrine, has largely been with recognizing the established church needed reform. Organized religion doesn't work particularly well, no matter what religion it is. So, when a group decided they couldn't take the problems with the organized church anymore, they left to try to build something better (hence, "Free" Methodists of recent times, or the Evangelical Free Church, which took issue with the State religion of Lutheranism in Scandanavian countries and sought to build a church not connected with Government (hence, the word "free" again)) Most of the splinters haven't been about God, but about how to run a church. Now. I know there are church historians who would scream at my oversimplification of things. Sorry, man, I tried to condense 2000 years into 5 paragraphs or less, while being fair to Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants.

04-06-2004, 02:35 PM	#5
druez Banned Join Date: Nov 2003	I thought the old testiment got thrown out the window when Jesus died for our sins. I'm more confused then ever. When I bring up things from the OT, people usually say they don't apply now or are out date now that Jesus died to save us all. More confused then ever.

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