Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

Hey Swaggs, just out of curiosity, what would've happened if Alan T or I had visited ya?

That is a question for Tanglewood. I'm not sure.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by twothree

So, I am guessing that it was swaggs who killed both mutants, path12 and chief rum?

Yeah. Path because I didn't like him locking people up. Chief was just a random kill. I thought killing CR would cast a little doubt on things, but I guess not.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Although i really had NO idea what you were thinknig lynching Greyroofoo, that jkust seemed silly to me.

Seemed silly to me too . Especially since I essentially exposed Swaggs.

I have to say my greatest mistake though was voting for Blade on day 2, should've clarified with tanglewood on the rules. I thought Blade couldn't command Space Marines.

[tanglewood]

Saldana received vision at night thusly:

Each night action was broken down into 3 parts, who performed it, who the target was and what the action itself was. Saldana had a 50/50 chance of 'seeing' each individual component of every action performed at night. This meant that some nights he got a bonanza of visions but all rather unclear, as on Nights 1 and 2, one of the unclear visions leading to his pressing for Blade to be lynched. On others he didn;t get much. I think only once or twice he got a complete 3-part vision of something, one of course being Mustang attack AlanT which played an important role in the game.

Swaggs' chaos mechanics. At the start there was one Chaos Lord (Swaggs) and two Acolytes (Mustang and Anxiety). The Acolytes knew each other's identity, but could not PM each other and did not know who was the Chaos Lord. The Chaos Lord knew who his acolytes were but also could not contact them. Each night, Swagg shad the choice of spending his night actino conacting one of his Acolytes and bringing them under his power. e did this night one, choosing Anxiety, hence no kill. Then, he got a bonus night action for every Acolyte he had under his sway (he was getting stonger). He chose on night 2 to bring in Mustang and kill SirFozzie, but as Anxiety was lynched he never got a 3 action night phase. Each night he himself could choose to either kill someone (100% success rate) or try to convert a player. If he hit someone who was suceptible (st.cronin or bulletsponge, who were both oblivious to their Chaos sucptibility, though it was hinted at in visits from AlanT and Greyroofoo) they would have switched. If he hit a normal guy there was a small chance (20%) that guy would have realised it was Swaggs trying to conert him. He could also order his minions to kill someone, only they had only a 75% chance of success as they are not mighty daemon lords.

So in a way, the whole game hinged on Mustang failing two night kills in a row (BrianD and AlanT) both at 75% chance of success, then on the same night as the second failed kill, being converted on a 50/50 shot by Greyroofoo. But that's them breaks I guess.

[Swaggs]

Primarch of the Dark Angels - Mustang
Team: Chaos Acolyte. Role: When died would become a ghost and not have his team affiliation revealed. Worked out rather beautifully in the end, one of many happy coincidences from my point of view that just added up to make it all even crazier.

I would beg to differ with you right here.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I have a feeling I was targeted early by Chaos for that reason.. I pretty much laid my role out there, and explained to our hidden bad guys that I couldn't find them and hoped they'd go elsewhere..

Either they didn't believe me or didn't care

We got you because you were semi-under the radar and you had subtly mentioned that you had some powers that could come in handy down the road.

[Swaggs]

The whole Mustang thing was really pure, bad luck.

That previous night, I had decided to make one kill and asked him to decide between killing someone or seeking out someone that was susceptible. We decided to try and knock Alan out and then search for another acolyte.

So, first he fails to kill Alan. Second, he gets converted so I lose my last teammate. Then, I worked my ass off to get him lynched the same day--I had thought he might have been silenced as a kind of counterbalance since he hadn't posted up to that point, and I actually, barely managed to set him up and get him lynched and he turns into a freaking ghost and spills everything!

He also missed out on killing Brian D, which, in hindsight, could have been a double kill for us, as well. Mustang was maybe the MVP of the game, but you made a terrible acolyte.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Yeah. Path because I didn't like him locking people up. Chief was just a random kill. I thought killing CR would cast a little doubt on things, but I guess not.

Grrr. I had been hoping the threat of bodyguard protection would keep me around for awhile, but I knew after Blade was lynched that I didn't have long.....

[tanglewood]

Bulletsponge had such an awesome role which I'm just going to copy verbatim from the role PM I sent him:

Originally Posted by bulletsponge's role

You are the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum, a fairly self explainatory position which you have revelled in (perhaps too much) for several years now. You are in control of the elite Imperial assassins that are attached to Inquisitors in thei investigations for Chaos or Mutant influences in the Imperium, as well as the limited group of battlefield assassins that are assigned front-line duty in the Imperial Guard.

You have at your disposal 4 assassins. Each asassain may be used only once in the game. You may use every asassain in the game. You may NOT use an assassin on consecutive nights.

- Calidus Assassin - This assassin is a master of shapechanging and disguise. He will take the appearance of another player, selected at random (excepting yourself), when killing his victim. [i](This meant Saldana would see another player in his vision ordering the assasination (possibly even himself!), any other witnesses would be fooled also)

- Culexus Assassin - This assassin is trained in advanced mental techniques and can kill his target without any detection from psykers. (Saldana would not be able to see this action guarenteed)

- Eversor Assassin - This assassin is a crazed manical man who lives only for violence (even more so than the others). He will kill his target 100% guarenteed, but is prone to lethal bouts of bloodlust. After killing his target, he will kill another randomly selected player that same night, with a small chance he may kill a second random player the next night. (This guy would even have killed someone who was protected by the bodyguard at night, though would not have killed the Chaos Lord in one go)

- Venenum Assassin - This assassin uses complicated poisins and toxins to kill him target. His methods are sophisicated enough to avoid intense investigation into the target's death with no trace left of his involvement. (This would have left the write up appear ambigious and not obious that he was assasinated, i.e. syptoms of heart attack etc.)

Your position does have some responsibility. The other operational chiefs in the department are vying for you at times tenous role as head. You will survive one failure, but two will be enough to lose your control over operations. If you kill two non-mutant, non-Chaos players in the game you will lose all assassination powers.

PM me if you wish to use an assassin, with the target and assassin to be used, before the night deadline (usually 9AM EST).

I still don't understand why he didn't want to kill anyone. Squeamish assasins are not goid assasins!

[Swaggs]

Tangle, a question:

After reading your recap of my role, I think I was unclear on something. Was I able to convert someone in one night? I was under the impression that I had to do a search first, to see if they were susceptible AND then, using another night action, reveal myselt to them. Thus, it would have taken me two nights... it sounds like I could have just revealed, then?

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Tangle, a question:

After reading your recap of my role, I think I was unclear on something. Was I able to convert someone in one night? I was under the impression that I had to do a search first, to see if they were susceptible AND then, using another night action, reveal myselt to them. Thus, it would have taken me two nights... it sounds like I could have just revealed, then?

You could convert someone in one night yes, but it would be a risk. Your search would have meant you discovered if a player was convertable or nor without any possibility of being revealed yourself. But if you just went for it and guessed outright you could have had your identity revealed if you hit on a loyal player adn obviously wasted a night action too. I was wondering if you'd take the gamble late in the game, but oviously I didn't mek it explicitly clear in the role PM, sorry.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

You could convert someone in one night yes, but it would be a risk. Your search would have meant you discovered if a player was convertable or nor without any possibility of being revealed yourself. But if you just went for it and guessed outright you could have had your identity revealed if you hit on a loyal player adn obviously wasted a night action too. I was wondering if you'd take the gamble late in the game, but oviously I didn't mek it explicitly clear in the role PM, sorry.

It's alright... I probably just didn't read it very carefully and, after seeing the odds, probably wouldn't have had a great chance anyway. I should have hit st. cronin sooner... I thought if I could have somehow survived one more day, the throne may have failed and I could have snuck out a win.

If I would have died, but other chaos members survived, would they have inherited any abilities or just gotten one kill or what?

[BrianD]

I did think the codeword communication for the mutants was rather clever. In fact, I thought it clever enough to be illegal and was quite surprised to find out it was ok.

As wrong as Fouts was to kill Bullet, I'm glad he didn't follow my advice and kill st.cronin. We would have had a much harder time of things if he'd died early.

[BrianD]

This was an interesting game, I had a good idea who was good through a lot of the game (though nobody ever believed me), but I never could figure out who was bad. I kept fighting to save someone I was pretty sure to be innocent but trying to shift the vote to someone who was also innocent.

[path12]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I did think the codeword communication for the mutants was rather clever. In fact, I thought it clever enough to be illegal and was quite surprised to find out it was ok.

I thought it was a very good move on your part. As Tangle said, it was fun to kind of have this side conversation going on during the game.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

He chose on night 2 to bring in Mustang and kill SirFozzie, but as Anxiety was lynched he never got a 3 action night phase.

That was more bad luck for the chaos side. As my choice to scan Anxiety on night two was made because I thought he was playing under the radar. When in fact it was because of his real life commitments.

[bulletsponge]

im glad i never used my assassins, would have just killed villagers. which is what i think you wanted to role to do

[twothree]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I still don't understand why he didn't want to kill anyone. Squeamish assasins are not goid assasins!

He probably did not want to take the risk of killing a non-mutant non-chaos until either..

1) the odds were better - with the villagers dying early, his odds were slowly getting better to make a correct kill.
or 2) he felt sure that someone was a mutant or chaos.

[twothree]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

im glad i never used my assassins, would have just killed villagers. which is what i think you wanted to role to do

Or that

[Fouts]

Still catching up, but nice job Tangle. Very in-depth and confusing. Really had me guessing out there, and I don't think I did as bad a job as people might think. Just amazing how many ties I had to break.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I did think the codeword communication for the mutants was rather clever. In fact, I thought it clever enough to be illegal and was quite surprised to find out it was ok.

As wrong as Fouts was to kill Bullet, I'm glad he didn't follow my advice and kill st.cronin. We would have had a much harder time of things if he'd died early.

what were the codewords..i never picked up on anything.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Still catching up, but nice job Tangle. Very in-depth and confusing. Really had me guessing out there, and I don't think I did as bad a job as people might think. Just amazing how many ties I had to break.

Fouts, I think I was rather hard on you throughout the game. Everybody was wrong most of the game, but you stood out since you were breaking ties.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by twothree

Or that

hehe Tangle is mad cause i didnt start whacking peeps early and often. it takes several days just to get a feel of whom might be bad, and with the multiple seers i was even more confused. plus everyones role was public which made me hesitant to pull a trigger due to the fear of killing an important role to the villagers. and to make matters worse i was already on the radars of lots of people because of my role and last game. i felt 1 wrong assassination would be the end of me. as far as i was concerned my role was nothing more than a rope around my neck

and all peeps on my mistrust list ended up being villagers

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by saldana

what were the codewords..i never picked up on anything.

The first night mutants used the words 'time', 'kill', and 'easy' all in the same post to identify themselves.

The second night, mutants used the word 'scared' to push for votes for Alan/Saldana, 'silly' to push for votes for GE/Grey, and 'strange' if both groups were thought to be good. If people had really strong opinions, they were to use the words often

It was the second night that Grey visited me, so all of my posts had the word strange. Path (I think) was big on Grey being bad so all of his posts had the word silly in it. I couldn't think of a good way to let him know that I 'knew' Grey was good.

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

what were the codewords..i never picked up on anything.

For example, Night 1 we got a PM asking us to use the words "easy, time and kill" in one post. Night 2 we had code words to indicate which factions (I think it was you and Alan, GE and Grey or neither, but I could be mistaken) we tended to believe.

[path12]

Originally Posted by BrianD

The first night mutants used the words 'time', 'kill', and 'easy' all in the same post to identify themselves.

The second night, mutants used the word 'scared' to push for votes for Alan/Saldana, 'silly' to push for votes for GE/Grey, and 'strange' if both groups were thought to be good. If people had really strong opinions, they were to use the words often

It was the second night that Grey visited me, so all of my posts had the word strange. Path (I think) was big on Grey being bad so all of his posts had the word silly in it. I couldn't think of a good way to let him know that I 'knew' Grey was good.

Actually, it was GE that I was really suspicious of. I didn't know what to think of Grey.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by BrianD

The first night mutants used the words 'time', 'kill', and 'easy' all in the same post to identify themselves.

The second night, mutants used the word 'scared' to push for votes for Alan/Saldana, 'silly' to push for votes for GE/Grey, and 'strange' if both groups were thought to be good. If people had really strong opinions, they were to use the words often

It was the second night that Grey visited me, so all of my posts had the word strange. Path (I think) was big on Grey being bad so all of his posts had the word silly in it. I couldn't think of a good way to let him know that I 'knew' Grey was good.

very well done.

[stevew]

WAY TO GO MUTANTS. THATAWAY BABY.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by path12

Actually, it was GE that I was really suspicious of. I didn't know what to think of Grey.

Oh that's right. Since Grey seemed good to me, I figured GE to be good. We seemed to have a nice little battle there.

[GoldenEagle]

My strategy was to throw off the chaos and to make them think I had no important role. I could have probably savedBlade or someone else throughout the game but I did not want to risk getting caught. But I thought I was dead after Sir Fozzie was killed.

[Mustang]

After I was exposed and turned back to the Imperial side, I didn't know what to do. I knew Swaggs needed to be hit 2x and that he was the lord. I really didn't want to expose this information and have the game end that way but, tangle said give whatever info I wanted..

Thought that was the game there but, ahh.. nope..

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mustang

After I was exposed and turned back to the Imperial side, I didn't know what to do. I knew Swaggs needed to be hit 2x and that he was the lord. I really didn't want to expose this information and have the game end that way but, tangle said give whatever info I wanted..

Thought that was the game there but, ahh.. nope..

Next time, you get a gun instead of that rinky dinky knife...

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Next time, you get a gun instead of that rinky dinky knife...

That wasn't the bad part.. bad part is when I broke down and cried like a little bitch when Grey confronted me.

If there was ever a time to vote for myself.. it would have been this game just because...

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Fouts, I think I was rather hard on you throughout the game. Everybody was wrong most of the game, but you stood out since you were breaking ties.

You weren't the only one. I had to be up in everyone's face to figure out what to do as you guys were leaving all the votes tied. It's not easy being the axeman.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Mustang

That wasn't the bad part.. bad part is when I broke down and cried like a little bitch when Grey confronted me.

If there was ever a time to vote for myself.. it would have been this game just because...

I didn't know if you got that message... I was trying to keep your morale up, but I got this one the night before:

You leave and turn back to your quarters satisfied satisfied with your night's work.

There you find Mustang, quivering on your bed. He informs you that his attempt to kill BrianD was less successful, indeed a failure. There was a struggle and BrianD fought him off, he needed to make a run for it before revealing himself. You fly into a rage, but momets before killing him restrain yourself. He is still more valuable alive than dead.

[Mustang]

Your master instructs you to kill AlanT and demands you not make the same mistake twice.

You slip into AlanT's room and are set to pounce on him, when you find him wide awake and readying himself to leave. You jump straight at him and knock him down, piercing his shoulder with your knife. However he is too strong for you and fights you off, kicking at one of the bruises left by BrianD the previous night on your abdomen. You squeal in pain and are forced to once again withdraw, fleeing the scene.

You dare not report back to your master after a second failure and sit in your room, waiting for jjudgement form somebody, something. When Greyroofoo, he Ecclesiarch, walks trhough your door you do not know whether you are shocked or if you were expecting his arrival with a fateful inevitability. After intial pressings wear you down, you eventually collapse in an emotional heap and allow yourself to once again freely embrace the Emperor's spirit. He will judge you, as he judges all, but by your confession of sins your sentence may be lighter than it would have been.

You ar enow a loyal imperial. You may no longer communicate with Swaggs via PM. You no longer have a night action.

[Swaggs]

That's gotta make you feel good. Tangle gives bullet like four assassins, makes a few people invincible to death, let's Chief raise the dead, and, meanwhile, you get to cry on back-to-back nights.

You owe him the next time you host.

[Alan T]

So this was probably one of my most frustrating games ever.. I thought day 1 that this would be a great game for me.. It seemed so obvious to me when people willingly wanted to kill someone that couldn't be killed at night, even when it wasnt a great move to make it so obvious.

I thought there had to be at least 1 bad guy or so in the mix there, so my plan was to start narrowing down people from that list:

saldana, path12, Blade, Greyroofoo, Mustang, BrianD, Anxiety

I chose Saldana night 1 just because he felt different than in past games from what I could tell. Maybe just was a weird vibe. Even though I put alot of heat on bulletsponge on day 1 vote, it wasn't as much me thinking he was bad as just needing someone to go after and try to put myself somewhat in play to try to avoid being a night kill target like normal.

When I got my pm back about saldana I realized it didnt say anything about mutant.. only if they were loyal. So I spent alot of time re-reading stuff and realized at that point (day 2) that I wasn't the only seer. I hinted at that some when I said there sure were alot of people walking around even. I also realized that with my role, it will be very obvious to a bad guy when I scanned them.. so I couldn't hide like a normal seer. I decided I would wait for what felt like the right time and announce my role earlier than normal seers. (So I didnt end up in a he said vs she said arguement after finding a bad dguy one night)

I thought that moment was day 2 when Saldana was so adament about blade.. If I had known his role was so wishy washy then I would never have jumped on it there.. but once I committed myself there, I had to be confident...

Once I was out in the open, I decided a new strat would be to try to keep myself alive. I felt the key to that was making sure path was on my side.. I went to scan him and tried to build trust with him.. I thought for sure if he was good, he would keep me locked up with someone new to scan each night.. thus protecting me (the seer) and helping me use my power... I guess I didnt realize path had his own agenda as a mutant, and I didnt realize there were like 15 seers.

By this point we had a good circle of trust.. but I was getting really frustrated.. I was completely open about my role, my findings etc, and was constantly getting attacked by St.cronin, Fouts and others... I honestly didn't believe they were all bad.. in fact i figured they probably were good but they were killing me that they didnt help us work to eliminate bad guys...

I noticed at this point grey had been working on his own circle of trust but i was really suspicious of him.. I needed to validate it somehow.. and was afraid of the risk of him being a chaos seer or the chaos lord and possibly killing me if we met.. so I chose to scan goldeneagle instead (since he had said he was sure of Grey, and grey was certain of him... it was a way to tie the two circles together)...

That was about the last meaningful thing I think I did this game.. I felt we really had the chaos down to small numbers, but no one would jump to my cause to try to leave swaggs be and try to sniff out mutants.. I guess we did win, but was a minor victory.. still better than a loss, but this was quite a frustrating game.

Even though frustrating, I still had fun.. thanks tangle for running it!

[stevew]

This was probably the greatest WW game ever.

[stevew]

dola, another shocking turn of events

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Once I was out in the open, I decided a new strat would be to try to keep myself alive. I felt the key to that was making sure path was on my side.. I went to scan him and tried to build trust with him.. I thought for sure if he was good, he would keep me locked up with someone new to scan each night.. thus protecting me (the seer) and helping me use my power... I guess I didnt realize path had his own agenda as a mutant, and I didnt realize there were like 15 seers.

I was going to lock you up that night I was killed originally, but even though I didn't get a bad vibe from you from my PM (though it also didn't specifically say you were good) I started to waver when you kept saying how you wanted to be locked up with Cronin.......if you had just said it once or twice I likely would have done it.

I know it also came up a couple of times about why I was guarding Cronin -- it was really as I said, I thought his role was important enough that he needed to be guarded. That said, I didn't trust him much at all which was one reason I didn't want to be in the cell with him.

My being a mutant didn't really give me much of an agenda -- I was loyal, so I figured that the best thing for me to do was to play as a strongly loyal villager and escape the heat that way. Of course, that did have the drawback (along with my role) of making me a better night target......

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Alan T

By this point we had a good circle of trust.. but I was getting really frustrated.. I was completely open about my role, my findings etc, and was constantly getting attacked by St.cronin, Fouts and others... I honestly didn't believe they were all bad.. in fact i figured they probably were good but they were killing me that they didnt help us work to eliminate bad guys...

Very hard to completely trust you after your 100% backing of a guy pushed us into killing the bodyguard.

[path12]

Dola, plus it seemed like every time I turned around there was someone else who was going to need protection.....

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Very hard to completely trust you after your 100% backing of a guy pushed us into killing the bodyguard.

Yeah, don't get me wrong... I don't blame you at all.. I mainly was saying I got really frustrated during that game because of that. Not that I thought you did poorly.. I think this game was just nuts!

[Alan T]

Dola.. and don't get me wrong, i don't think I saw that many people who I felt played "poorly" I think this game just had alot of twists we dont normally expect..

WHo would realistically think there were 5+seers?

Who thought there would be a char that by simply killing them it could end the game..

Things like that were so out there, I didnt think they were possibilities at all.. and it only added to the mess we had to deal with.

[kingfc22]

Tangle: Thanks for creating such a fun game.

Blade: As for why I scanned Chief last night. I had already scanned GE on night 5 and I saw no real benefit to scanning him again. I figured even if he was converted, my investigation would turn up the same info. So I decided to scan CR since I already had info on almost everybody left and if his story checked out then I knew you were good too.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Tangle: Thanks for creating such a fun game.

Blade: As for why I scanned Chief last night. I had already scanned GE on night 5 and I saw no real benefit to scanning him again. I figured even if he was converted, my investigation would turn up the same info. So I decided to scan CR since I already had info on almost everybody left and if his story checked out then I knew you were good too.

In your view its not a bad scan, but if you had scanned GE on night 5 and he scanned chief, you could have assumed and moved to a more pressing scan. I just felt there were more pressing targets, but we won so all is well.

Random ?, didnt you say saldana was a mutant from one of your scans?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

In your view its not a bad scan, but if you had scanned GE on night 5 and he scanned chief, you could have assumed and moved to a more pressing scan. I just felt there were more pressing targets, but we won so all is well.

Random ?, didnt you say saldana was a mutant from one of your scans?

I really thought he was. My PM said I had a very hard time finding information. It said he was not part of the imperium. I put that together with my view of how he was playing and I pegged him to be a mutant. Guess I was wrong.:o

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

I really thought he was. My PM said I had a very hard time finding information. It said he was not part of the imperium. I put that together with my view of how he was playing and I pegged him to be a mutant. Guess I was wrong.:o

I was too, i had him pegged at that since day 2...i was soo lost, especially after being dead and trying to catch up

[st.cronin]

I was really weirded out by Fouts about halfway through the game. He saw pretty much everything that happened exactly the same way I did. If I had lasted much longer, I would have started voting for him, probably.