True Detective

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

2. Even wilder, Rust Kohle was seen in 1995. He spent at least 4 years undercover and an indeterminate amount of time recouperating.

Meaning that he easily could have fathered a kid in or around 1988-9 which at least brings up the possibility that Tim Riggin's mom is his ex wife and Cohle is his father.

Who the heck are these people? I must be missing something completely.

Admittedly, I was a little tipsy when I watched the second episode (so bird mask dude was a little freaky to me).

[Logan]

And as expected, cheap trick.

[HomerSimpson98]

Disappointing. From what I've heard, it picks up significantly after ep. 3. Dont think I'll be one of those who find out. The acting has been surprisingly good, IMO, but having that kind of stunt was weak

[Johnny93g]

I admit to being wrong, I didn't think they would do that.

With that said, i thought the first scene, combined with the reveal, was great, and I thought the episode was strong.

Vaughn is getting better and better, and with the characters getting more and more familiar each time I see them, i am enjoying the story.

I'm loving the Ray/wife scenes.

[ISiddiqui]

God, I hated that cheap trick, but yes, the episode was better than the 2 that came before.

[hollmt]

I did not mind the 'cheap trick' at all. It was sort of to be expected. He was in many scenes that had been advertised that had not yet even been aired yet. Many shows do this type of thing all the time. Granted, that doesn't mean anyone has to like it

As for Vaughn getting better and better. I think Vaughn was already good and it is maybe that you/people are getting more accustomed to him in this role and appreciate the goofy/crazy/bad guy role he is portraying. You can definitely see when he sometimes slips into fast-talking mode (from his comedy roles) and....I kind of like it in this role actually. It is different. For what it is worth, my girlfriend doesn't like himin this role either.

So far though, I am enjoying the show. I admit I enjoyed last season at this time a bit more, but, I think that had to do alot more with liking the atmosphere/darkness that the story revolved around. I think the acting and the department backstabbing and underhanded subplots are intriguing.

[ISiddiqui]

I thought Vaughn was pretty decent in the role as well - his dialogue is horrible but that's not his fault (and the bad dialogue totally fits the California noir theme, FWIW). I did like how he reasserted that he's still the bad ass he always was, even though he's wearing a suit. That was a fun scene.

[Chief Rum]

Eat your heart out, Heat.

[stevew]

I never once felt like I was watching something on Heat's level. It was an okay shootout, but overall I'm really starting to think this season is basically a "B" and that maybe the writer is a bit of an M. Night type flash.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

I never once felt like I was watching something on Heat's level. It was an okay shootout, but overall I'm really starting to think this season is basically a "B" and that maybe the writer is a bit of an M. Night type flash.

I thought it was a decent shoot out as far as shootouts go, but with an immense body count. And apparently the stupidest protesters ever.

[Chief Rum]

As for the show, I'm still very much enjoying it, although I think the shootout takes us far from the dramatic heft that is ideally supposed to be the show's forté.

[Jas_lov]

Shootout was decent but nowhere near Heat. Farrell and McAdams are good. Tim Riggins is awful. Vaughn is awful. Didn't they watch that terrible remake of Psycho? He can't pull off that role.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Shootout was decent but nowhere near Heat. Farrell and McAdams are good. Tim Riggins is awful. Vaughn is awful. Didn't they watch that terrible remake of Psycho? He can't pull off that role.

I still have some sympathy for Vince Vaughn here. I really like the fact that he's trying something different. He has no incentive to. He could easily make millions of dollars just by being Vince Vaugh in another Vince Vaughn movie. So, I applaud him for trying to do something different, something outside of his comfort zone.

He isn't killing it, but I don't think it's all his fault. His dialogue is fucking atrocious. I'm not sure anyone could really pull off lines like: "And I've never lost a tooth. Never even had a fuckin' cavity." Really? That's your menacing comeback? His whole papier mache/trapped in the basement monologue was weird. Anytime he mentions Stan it's weird, because no one knows who the fuck Stan was. He's really been given very little to work with.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

He isn't killing it, but I don't think it's all his fault. His dialogue is fucking atrocious.

Exactly. Though I do think its purposely atrocious. This season is California Noir, and Vaughn's dialogue is the stereotypical really bad and cliched noir dialogue. I think he doing fairly well with that, FWIW.

[stevew]

McAdams is playing the lead character on a CBS procedural this season.

[Chief Rum]

FWIW, we only talk like that out here on Tuesdays and Fridays.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

FWIW, we only talk like that out here on Tuesdays and Fridays.

Well, if you don't start posting in "California Noir" speak on Tuesdays and Fridays, there's going to be hell to pay, CR.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

McAdams is playing the lead character on a CBS procedural this season.

Was this recently announced? I didn't find anything like that on her IMDB page.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Well, if you don't start posting in "California Noir" speak on Tuesdays and Fridays, there's going to be hell to pay, CR.

Shoot! I shoulda said Sundays and Thursdays, so I could get more practice in!

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Was this recently announced? I didn't find anything like that on her IMDB page.

Sorry, it was a snark

[Suicane75]

The problem I'm having with it is that every character appears to be the lead in a different show and the bizzare mashup they've concocted is in no way engaging. Add to that the story itself is not engaging in the slightest and well, it's just not a very good show. What the fuck is Vaughn supposed to do with that dialogue? His mannerisms, his eyes, his body language, they're all great, but you'd need to find the cybernetic equivalent of Olivier to pull of that dialogue.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

The problem I'm having with it is that every character appears to be the lead in a different show and the bizzare mashup they've concocted is in no way engaging. Add to that the story itself is not engaging in the slightest and well, it's just not a very good show. What the fuck is Vaughn supposed to do with that dialogue? His mannerisms, his eyes, his body language, they're all great, but you'd need to find the cybernetic equivalent of Olivier to pull of that dialogue.

I concur.

I have only the vaguest notion of what's happening. I get the general idea, but a lot of the details, I think, are lost on me, because I just don't care. I even rewind scenes sometimes to see if I missed anything and... nope, still neither makes sense nor is it engaging.

Maybe they'll release a director's cut of the show where key scenes are added to flesh out what's happening, many of which, no doubt, will prominently feature Stan.

[MizzouRah]

I'm thinking at some point this will all come together. I'm enjoying it.. but for me, it's going in so many different directions - like HB.. I have to totally be engaged into it because I'm feeling like I'm missing stuff.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

The problem I'm having with it is that every character appears to be the lead in a different show and the bizzare mashup they've concocted is in no way engaging. Add to that the story itself is not engaging in the slightest and well, it's just not a very good show. What the fuck is Vaughn supposed to do with that dialogue? His mannerisms, his eyes, his body language, they're all great, but you'd need to find the cybernetic equivalent of Olivier to pull of that dialogue.

Yeah, agree, with the caveat that Vaughn is pretty much the only thing on the show worth watching. Woodrug has basically no character. He's a repressed homosexual i guess? McAdams is going to be spun off into Milf Cop:The Series. The Vinci PD is semi interesting I guess, but only cause it's like a cartoon corruption squad. The black cop who's always in the background is doing a ton with basically no lines.

[bhlloy]

OK, that was one of the most absurd pieces of TV I've seen in a long time. They'd all be up on murder charges after that.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

OK, that was one of the most absurd pieces of TV I've seen in a long time. They'd all be up on murder charges after that.

Yeah.. not a good way to get a bunch of civilians killed.

[ISiddiqui]

Murder charges? For the bad guys starting to shoot at them as they were trying to storm the location and then engaging in a shootout?

[Chief Rum]

+1

Not saying it was a great episode or nothing, but seems hard to fault the cops when they were fired upon by the bad guys as they approached the building.

[Arles]

My issue isn't so much with the gunfight, but with the sloppy storytelling. Just in last night's episode:

1. Why was there no perimeter around the building? What were the protestors doing outside of a vacant building (that was apparently a meth lab based on the initial explosion)? Wouldn't the cops have asked them to disperse before leading a swat team to the building?

2. Why was the media outside of Woodrugh's (Kitsch) hotel? I'm assuming some kind of story was leaked about his involvement in Afghanistan war crimes, but that whole part was skipped over in the show. For a second, I thought someone had ratted him out for being at the "sex bar" the night before (which would make some sense given his pickle with the actress).

3. What's up with the watch? Again, my guess is it was stolen from the dead guy's house and the picture was from his insurance policy? But we never got any information about it before Woodrugh presents it to the pawn guy.

I feel like the directors had 2 hours of "story" for Sunday's episode and cut out the half that provided some context and kept in Frank and his wife mean mugging about avocado trees, numerous shakedowns ("I've never had a cavity" - what?) and trying to do a 20 minute action sequence to force in some excitement. It appears this season's writing/directing is more focus on character deep dives than actually progressing the story/plot. There's some value to the character building (Velcoro and McAdams' character have both been pretty well done), but you don't want to completely brush over the plot so we can see Frank make a 3rd trip to the fertility doctor. I'm still watching, but I don't feel like this season is building the way last season did about 4-5 shows in.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Arles

2. Why was the media outside of Woodrugh's (Kitsch) hotel?

Oh, well that's easy. Remember the actress who claimed he asked for a BJ to not write her a ticket?

[bhlloy]

Yeah the lack of a perimeter and then chasing the obviously heavily armed criminals right into the large group of protesters a block away hardly seems like very solid procedure.

Obviously the whole thing was a setup but still, they aren't going to be given a pat on the back and a forget about it for that many civilian deaths.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, well that's easy. Remember the actress who claimed he asked for a BJ to not write her a ticket?

They were specifically asking about Afghanistan and the private security company, no?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

They were specifically asking about Afghanistan and the private security company, no?

Perhaps (I don't recall), but once the big bombshell went off, I'm sure they, as journalists do, dug into his past.

[Suicane75]

I "get" all of the story, it's just not very good. The watch was stolen from the dead guy, the press was asking about whatever atrocities were committed by the guys unit during the war, although the scene seemed way out of place do to pacing issues and the whole thing being spoken about in vague terms so far. As far as the shootout goes, they were ordered to take the place, and seem to be pretty clearly sent in with the express intent of what happened, happening.

Am I wrong, or is Stan the first guy Vaughn went to last week about needing a cut? The guy in the foremens office? I could be wrong about that but it was my first assumption and I wasn't assed enough to do any sort of research.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Perhaps (I don't recall), but once the big bombshell went off, I'm sure they, as journalists do, dug into his past.

They were definitely talking about war crimes. It seemed like that was the story, not the actress thing.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Maybe they'll release a director's cut of the show where key scenes are added to flesh out what's happening, many of which, no doubt, will prominently feature Stan.

:thread

[Arles]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Perhaps (I don't recall), but once the big bombshell went off, I'm sure they, as journalists do, dug into his past.

This is the issue I'm talking about. First, your logical conclusion is that the reporters are related to the actress issue. Then, we hear one ask about war crimes, so we pivot over to his time in Afghanistan. I'm guessing we are supposed to infer that "the war crime tip" came from either someone trying to discredit his current investigation (ie, the Mayor pissed because he and McAdams walked into his house and interrogated his family) or it could be from the actress side trying to discredit him for any investigation that comes from her claim. Finally, it could have just been "bad timing" in which a separate investigation on the war crimes issue happened to break at the same time this actress thing was going on. The point is, this is a fairly trivial part of the story setup for Kitsch's character building and it's been handled about as bad as a storyteller could.

[stevew]

Stan is that henchmen that ended up dead 2 weeks ago.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Stan is that henchmen that ended up dead 2 weeks ago.

heh heh we all know that. What we can't figure out is why we're supposed to identify with Vaughn's angst over losing a guy who, to my recall, barely showed up anywhere on screen.

[ISiddiqui]

I think the Stan death gets Semyon angst-y because it seems like the killer is targeting him - first the guy that has all his money and then one of his big henchmen.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think the Stan death gets Semyon angst-y because it seems like the killer is targeting him - first the guy that has all his money and then one of his big henchmen.

Oh, I totally get that angle--but for us to really feel it, it would have helped if they, you know, made Stan a character we at least recognized.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Arles

My issue isn't so much with the gunfight, but with the sloppy storytelling. Just in last night's episode:

1. Why was there no perimeter around the building? What were the protestors doing outside of a vacant building (that was apparently a meth lab based on the initial explosion)? Wouldn't the cops have asked them to disperse before leading a swat team to the building?

One man in a window and nobody can shot him with all those police outside? The guy just stands in the window.

Where was SWAT?

[Suicane75]

The cops going in were set up. The command came from higher up to just take the building. One of the cops, think it might have been Ferrell, even asks before they go in if they should wait. Now, why the 20 or so cops who were there to begin with didn't disperse the crowd beforehand, I dunno.

Maybe it's just because I'm already 4 episodes invested, but I think I'm thinking way too much about a show I really don't like.

[Grammaticus]

If there is any semblance of reality the fbi would swoop in and take over everything after that shoot out.

[Solecismic]

The shootout was an absolute mess. If that happened, it would be a national story and the three musketeers would just have permanently hoisted themselves on their own petards.

I try to imagine James Gandolfini with the lines they're feeding Vaughn, and I can't see him doing it with a straight face. I don't know where they're going with this - the wife seems tougher than he does. She'd find a way to make some money with half-dead glow-in-the-dark avocado trees.

I'm probably alone in thinking McConaughey was excellent last season, but the scene-chewing Harrelson was in way over his head. Fortunately, he knew just enough to dial it down when McConaughey was in the same scene.

We've watched the first four episodes fairly close together. It still feels like this season is just starting, but we're already half-way through. I don't feel invested in the characters. I don't care about Farrell and the kid. I don't care about the other two and their sex lives. If Vaughn's wife turns out to be the criminal mastermind behind all of this, I could definitely come on board. She could handle Turkish Coffee. Otherwise, I have no idea how I'm going to care where it's going.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by stevew

McAdams is playing the lead character on a CBS procedural this season.

I could go for a '70s-style detective show with McAdams partnered with her omniscient guru father. Call it Dharma and Meg.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I'm probably alone in thinking McConaughey was excellent last season, but the scene-chewing Harrelson was in way over his head. Fortunately, he knew just enough to dial it down when McConaughey was in the same scene.

Harrelson was brilliant. I really don't think half of what McConaughey did, amazing as it was, would have worked without Woody to play off of.

[Logan]

Finally watched the latest episode last night.

This show is fucking horrendous. The writer clearly stepped in shit for season 1 and took advantage of not only his good fortune of getting MM and WH involved, but in being able to work on the story over years. His efforts at putting together a coherent story with a short turnaround are abysmal. I'll go as far to say that if he didn't get the leads he did for S1, the audience for this one would have already been low enough where we'd be expecting this to not return for a S3.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

If that happened, it would be a national story and the three musketeers would just have permanently hoisted themselves on their own petards.

I'm pretty sure that's why at the end of it Velcoro had his head in his hands with an "Oh shit, wtf is going to happen to us" look.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I'm pretty sure that's why at the end of it Velcoro had his head in his hands with an "Oh shit, wtf is going to happen to us" look.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty apparent from all of them that they realized they were in a whole world of hurt.