Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Main Forums > Off Topic
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-05-2011, 05:00 PM   #1
dawgfan
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Seattle
Jerry Sandusky thread

Jerry Sandusky story

Figured this story deserves a thread of its own.

One thing that sticks out to me - he retired in '99 at age 55? I'm curious to hear from Penn State fans what the story was at the time - seems a bit odd for an assistant football coach to retire that early unless he was claiming some kind of health-issue or family matter. Assistants in those days didn't make that much - he probably on just started clearing 6 figures in the last few years of his career - so I'm guessing he didn't retire with a huge amount of money socked away.

In light of what's been alleged, it natural to wonder if his retirement wasn't actually him getting pushed out.

My father-in-law is a huge, huge Penn State fan, and for his sake I sure hope Paterno is clear in all of this.

dawgfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:02 PM   #2
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Paterno does not seem clean in this. A graduate assistant told him in 2002 he saw Sandusky raping a child in the PSU locker room. Paterno never notified the police and even allowed Sandusky to bring another 11 year old (who Sandusky was also raping) to multiple practices in 2007.

If these prove to be true, Paterno should be fired immediately and never allowed back on the Penn State campus again.

Last edited by RainMaker : 11-05-2011 at 05:05 PM.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:07 PM   #3
cartman
Death Herald
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
I also wonder if the Penn State admins knew this info was coming out, and downplayed JoePa's 409th win. It was a pretty low key, considering he just became the all time winning-est Div. 1 college football coach.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan
'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand
So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent
So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint
cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:09 PM   #4
EagleFan
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA
There is a special place in hell for that man. Hopefully someone sends him there sooner rather then later. Anyone that does this should get a bullet between the eyes.
EagleFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:09 PM   #5
Matthean
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Nice timing of a bye week as well.
__________________
Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.
Matthean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:13 PM   #6
dawgfan
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Seattle
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
Paterno does not seem clean in this. A graduate assistant told him in 2002 he saw Sandusky raping a child in the PSU locker room. Paterno never notified the police and even allowed Sandusky to bring another 11 year old (who Sandusky was also raping) to multiple practices in 2007.

If these prove to be true, Paterno should be fired immediately and never allowed back on the Penn State campus again.
Yeah, what worries me in this is that Paterno didn't seem to push the info he got far enough. As well, you have to wonder if this wasn't the first time he had an inkling of what may have been going on.
dawgfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:15 PM   #7
EagleFan
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA
I seriously hope Paterno didn't drop the ball on this. Not a huge fan of his but he's still a legend that you don't want to see fall like that.
EagleFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:16 PM   #8
DeToxRox
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Could the NCAA hit PSU for LOIC? It seems unlikely but if anything deserves LOIC I'd wager it's this.
DeToxRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:19 PM   #10
DeToxRox
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleFan View Post
LOIC?

Lack of Institutional Control.
DeToxRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:19 PM   #11
cartman
Death Herald
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
Lack of institutional control
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan
'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand
So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent
So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint
cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:21 PM   #12
Kodos
Resident Alien
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Sickening story. Maybe Sandusky will do everyone a favor and kill himself.
__________________
Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.
Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:22 PM   #13
bhlloy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I'm guessing the NCAA won't have a leg to stand on here, I can't imagine they have a statute they can charge them with.

I'm guessing JoePa and the AD get quietly ushered out at the next possible opportunity, Penn State takes their lumps in court and we all try to pretend as much as possible that this never happened. As disgusting and unpalatable as that might be.
bhlloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:24 PM   #14
DeToxRox
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhlloy View Post
I'm guessing the NCAA won't have a leg to stand on here, I can't imagine they have a statute they can charge them with.

I'm guessing JoePa and the AD get quietly ushered out at the next possible opportunity, Penn State takes their lumps in court and we all try to pretend as much as possible that this never happened. As disgusting and unpalatable as that might be.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more improbable it seems that the NCAA could get involved. Regardless, this could haunt the program for quite a long time. While I don't believe Urban Meyer is a realistic candidate to replace JoePa, I cannot see him wanting to go into this potential mess now. What a black cloud over the university.
DeToxRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:26 PM   #15
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Chill on the NCAA part. A player didn't do the horrible act of selling their jersey. A university just covered up and even aided in the systematic rape of children.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:29 PM   #16
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhlloy View Post
I'm guessing JoePa and the AD get quietly ushered out at the next possible opportunity, Penn State takes their lumps in court and we all try to pretend as much as possible that this never happened. As disgusting and unpalatable as that might be.

Not sure how the AD gets quietly ushered out. He has been arrested for perjury and failure to report the sexual assault of a child.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:29 PM   #17
Ksyrup
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: In Absentia
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhlloy View Post
I'm guessing JoePa and the AD get quietly ushered out at the next possible opportunity

I don't know about Paterno, but the Prez issued a statement backing both the guys charged, aside from Sandusky. That's not quiet. Speculation on twitter among the writers is maybe it went all the way up the chain, so he is backing them because his ass is on the line, too.

As far as downplaying Paterno's 409th win, I think that has more to do with the fact that Paterno is little more than a spectator right now, and I've even read some stuff suggesting he shouldn't be credited with any wins this year. His role and lack of involvement in any of the game day stuff does bring up the question of at what point is a coach not really a coach. I mean, even at the end, Bowden was still on the sidelines and appeared to be involved in major decisions (going for it on 4th downs, etc.).
__________________
M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

Last edited by Ksyrup : 11-05-2011 at 05:31 PM.
Ksyrup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:34 PM   #18
RedKingGold
College Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
As a Penn State fan, I'm very saddened by this. I always thought Sandusky's timing of his retirement seemed odd, and it was a little surprising he wasn't lured by other schools for coaching positions.

Sadly, I think we've just scratched the surface. I think enough will be uncovered that the entire athletic department will, and should, lose their jobs over this.
RedKingGold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:36 PM   #19
CraigSca
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Not Delaware - hurray!
Interesting. I quote this from the ESPN article: "Longtime head coach Joe Paterno, who has more victories than any coach in the history of Division I football, was not charged, authorities said, and the grand jury report did not appear to implicate him in wrongdoing. It said that when Paterno first learned of one report of abuse, he immediately reported it to Curley, but Sandusky was no longer coaching at the time and it's not clear whether Paterno followed up with Curley."

The way it's phrased, it sounds like Paterno immediately reported this upon hearing about the abuse. Upon closer inspection, the "first learned of one report of abuse" may imply that he had heard about the abuse earlier.
__________________
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!
She loves you, yeah!
how do you know?
how do you know?

CraigSca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:36 PM   #20
RomaGoth
Favored Bitch #2
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Here
This is a truly disgusting story. The idea that an entire university staff, from a janitor to the school president, could hide something like this just makes me want to vomit. No way does Paterno NOT know about this shit, he has been running the show at Penn State since the Civil War.

Makes me wonder how much of this is going on/has gone on at other schools, all in the name of college athletics.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicane75
Pumpy, come sit on my lap and tell me all your troubles and woes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Cloud
None of this shit is personal. It's the internet.
RomaGoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:39 PM   #21
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigSca View Post
Interesting. I quote this from the ESPN article: "Longtime head coach Joe Paterno, who has more victories than any coach in the history of Division I football, was not charged, authorities said, and the grand jury report did not appear to implicate him in wrongdoing. It said that when Paterno first learned of one report of abuse, he immediately reported it to Curley, but Sandusky was no longer coaching at the time and it's not clear whether Paterno followed up with Curley."

The way it's phrased, it sounds like Paterno immediately reported this upon hearing about the abuse. Upon closer inspection, the "first learned of one report of abuse" may imply that he had heard about the abuse earlier.

Sandusky was investigated in 1998 for a similar incident. Everyone on the PSU staff knew about this.

Paterno was also told by the graduate assistant that he had seen anal sex occur in the shower between Sandusky and the child. The graduate assistant was incredibly upset and told this to Paterno at Paterno's home.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:43 PM   #22
bob
College Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
You know what I don't get. Let's say you see something like this, and you take it to your boss like you think you should. And they do nothing about it. How can you not bring it up to someone else?
bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:53 PM   #23
RedKingGold
College Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob View Post
You know what I don't get. Let's say you see something like this, and you take it to your boss like you think you should. And they do nothing about it. How can you not bring it up to someone else?

This. I believe Paterno may have followed the law - state reporting laws usually require employees only to report to their immediate supervisor to escape legal culpability - but it sounds a lot like Paterno broke many moral and ethical rules by keeping silent with the knowledge he apparently had for over ten years.

Last edited by RedKingGold : 11-05-2011 at 05:53 PM.
RedKingGold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 05:57 PM   #24
DeToxRox
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Michigan
Pretty crazy that Sandusky was bringing this kid to PSU practices .. in 2007 and JoePa allowed it.
DeToxRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 06:24 PM   #25
Julio Riddols
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Bryson Shitty, NC
This sounds like some Law and Order SVU shit here.. Jesus.
__________________
Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused.

FUCK EA
Julio Riddols is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 07:00 PM   #26
bhlloy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob View Post
You know what I don't get. Let's say you see something like this, and you take it to your boss like you think you should. And they do nothing about it. How can you not bring it up to someone else?

This +2. Paterno might be in the clear legally, but that doesn't mean he's not a piece of shit if the story is as currently reported.

"Hey, what happened with our former defensive co-ordinator who we caught having sex with an 11 old on our premises"
"uh, oh we told the police and they didn't care. honestly"
"okie dokie, sounds good"

Really? I can't imagine knowing about something like this and not reporting it. WTF from a guy who was supposed to be as stand up as they come.
bhlloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 07:10 PM   #27
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by molson View Post
I also think that the whole concept of knowing about or even suspecting child abuse and actually going outside the organization or family, to police, is like this brand new idea that our generation made up.

Taken as an observation unrelated to this incident (i.e. I haven't read enough on this case to comment it on it at this point), I'd say you're pretty close to right.

I'd even say it's really something that's only been true for a portion of "our generation", depending on your generation of course.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 07:54 PM   #28
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
I don't care if the guy was from Abraham Lincoln's generation. If anyone knew that this guy had raped a kid and didn't go to the police with this information I have not even a smidge of respect or sympathy for them. You don't have to be born in the 21st century to have figured that one out by now.
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:04 PM   #29
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
I don't care if the guy was from Abraham Lincoln's generation. If anyone knew that this guy had raped a kid and didn't go to the police with this information I have not even a smidge of respect or sympathy for them. You don't have to be born in the 21st century to have figured that one out by now.

It's not that simple. It wasn't part of the culture until recently. If you contacted the police in 1930, or even 1960 and told them that some respected adult was molesting a kid they either: wouldn't believe you, tell you you have to get him to church to pray it off, or tell the boy to stop tempting him. There wouldn't be an investigation or anything. The reporter would be accused of having some ax to grind (basically where we are in some parts of the country still when it comes to child abuse, per the texas judge thread) There were no sex crimes divisions. Very few sex crime prosecutions (most of those involved poor men raping girls on in public somewhere)

Now, I'm not saying an old guy in 1997 shouldn't know better, and shouldn't be held responsible by our laws and ethics today, but this is a very different time with new rules that were not second nature for people just a few decades ago.

Last edited by molson : 11-05-2011 at 08:05 PM.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:07 PM   #30
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by molson View Post
It's not that simple.

I'd argue that you're right but for a different reason. What you "know" and what you could offer evidence of are often two very different things.

Maybe I'm missing something but unless Paterno himself walked in on something (which I haven't seen indicated) realistically his options were probably pretty limited in terms of having any real impact.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:12 PM   #31
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
This doesn't sound like a case of some suspicious rumors. It sounds like someone walked up to Joe and said, "I saw this guy raping a kid." I repeat, I don't care what generation you're in, or what you think people will say, or what you think they will do. You don't stop until that guys is under questioning at the police station.
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:15 PM   #32
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
Quote:
Originally Posted by molson View Post
It's not that simple. It wasn't part of the culture until recently...

Now, I'm not saying an old guy in 1997 shouldn't know better, and shouldn't be held responsible by our laws and ethics today, but this is a very different time with new rules that were not second nature for people just a few decades ago.

I understand times were different fifty years ago. But still, yes, it is that simple. Whether it's second nature, third nature, whatever, there's only one right answer here. It was the right answer when Joe Paterno was a kid, whether people admitted it or not, and it's the right answer now.

I'm faintly amused to see JiMGA arguing for moral relativism though.
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:16 PM   #33
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
This doesn't sound like a case of some suspicious rumors. It sounds like someone walked up to Joe and said, "I saw this guy raping a kid." I repeat, I don't care what generation you're in, or what you think people will say, or what you think they will do. You don't stop until that guys is under questioning at the police station.

It's one of those things where everyone living today believes they would be in the top 1% of people, morally, in previous generations. You wouldn't be prejudiced against black people, you'd support gay marriage, you wouldn't throw Christians in the pit to be eaten by lions. I mean sure, if we could take Autumn circa 2011 and send him back, that'd be the case, but if you were born then, I don't know how you can be so sure you'd be so ahead of everyone else morally. Odds are you wouldn't be. Odds are most of us wouldn't be. It's just a interesting thing to think about, I'm not saying anything about the present case. Contemporary laws should obviously apply to everyone regardless of when they were born.

Edit: I've thought about this in the past in terms of a personal family situation - a few generations ago a close family member of mine was molested, over time, by another close family member. And some point, I'm not sure when, people were suspicious, and then knew. I don't know all of the timelines, but I know no police were ever involved. That surprised me at first when I heard about it decades after the fact - the molester in question was still alive until 10 years or so ago and I knew him growing up...my family would visit his family, like normal (but just in retrospect, I was never left alone with him). Now, maybe everyone in my family generations ago that knew, or suspected, are terrible monsters for not going to the police. Fair enough. But they weren't alone. This is what happened in families in the 50s and 60s (and earlier, I'm sure) Police were not an option, either a practical sense (they wouldn't do anything), or in a family sense - it just couldn't happen. It's a well respected guy, you take care of the best you can in the family, you don't try to take down, or abandon, the family's chief bread winner. After all, its probably the victim's fault anyway, right (thinking of the time).

Last edited by molson : 11-05-2011 at 08:22 PM.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:19 PM   #34
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
I'm faintly amused to see JiMGA arguing for moral relativism though.

Nope, you're seeing me argue that realistically unless Paterno had pictures or video that he took himself then there's probably a better chance of him being dismissed for being senile than anyone believing him if he ran screaming to the cops claiming something this outrageous.

edit to add: And that's assuming he believed the claim in the first place.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 11-05-2011 at 08:20 PM.
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:20 PM   #35
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
Oh I'm not at all suggesting that any of us would be different if we'd been born then. [reminds me of that hilarious Eddie Murphy bit]. I'm saying I'm not willing to give anyone a bit of sympathy in the year 2002 or 2011 or even 1997 for holding on to those ideas. He's not running the wishbone over there, right? So he's learned enough tricks over the past 50 years. He damn well should have learned that one.

And I'm also just talking generally about anyone who knew what this guy had did and didn't make sure he got taken into custody. Whoever that is, it seems like there were a whole bunch of them.
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:22 PM   #36
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
It sounds like someone walked up to Joe and said, "I saw this guy raping a kid."

How much credibility did the person walking up have? And FTR, I'm not casting aspersions on them, I'm trying to ask an honest question here.

And that's before we even rationally consider the part of the equation that weighs credibility of the accuser versus credibility of the accused (to Paterno I mean).
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:22 PM   #37
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Nope, you're seeing me argue that realistically unless Paterno had pictures or video that he took himself then there's probably a better chance of him being dismissed for being senile than anyone believing him if he ran screaming to the cops claiming something this outrageous.

edit to add: And that's assuming he believed the claim in the first place.

I think you live in a different world than I, then. Where I live allegations like this, even with nothing even remotely like an eyewitness, are taken incredibly seriously. To think that they had an eyewitness, and that people would call them senile? To me that's a bunch of bunko. It's the sort of shit abusers say to people to make them not report them.
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:22 PM   #38
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
I've thought about this in the past in terms of a personal family situation - a few generations ago a close family member of mine was molested, over time, by another close family member. And some point, I'm not sure when, people were suspicious, and then knew. I don't know all of the timelines, but I know no police were ever involved. That surprised me at first when I heard about it decades after the fact - the molester in question was still alive until 10 years or so ago and I knew him growing up...my family would visit his family, like normal (but just in retrospect, I was never left alone with him). Now, maybe everyone in my family generations ago that knew, or suspected, are terrible monsters for not going to the police. Fair enough. But they weren't alone. This is what happened in families in the 50s and 60s (and earlier, I'm sure) Police were not an option, either a practical sense (they wouldn't do anything), or in a family sense - it just couldn't happen. It's a well respected guy, you take care of the best you can in the family, you don't try to take down, or abandon, the family's chief bread winner. After all, its probably the victim's fault anyway, right (thinking of the time).

Last edited by molson : 11-05-2011 at 08:23 PM.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:23 PM   #39
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
How much credibility did the person walking up have? And FTR, I'm not casting aspersions on them, I'm trying to ask an honest question here.

And that's before we even rationally consider the part of the equation that weighs credibility of the accuser versus credibility of the accused (to Paterno I mean).

Unless the guy was a known pathological liar, or this guy's arch enemy, seems to me he had enough credibility.
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:24 PM   #40
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
Oh I'm not at all suggesting that any of us would be different if we'd been born then. [reminds me of that hilarious Eddie Murphy bit]. I'm saying I'm not willing to give anyone a bit of sympathy in the year 2002 or 2011 or even 1997 for holding on to those ideas. He's not running the wishbone over there, right? So he's learned enough tricks over the past 50 years. He damn well should have learned that one.


Ya, I'm not going to go as far as "sympathy", anyone who breaks the law in this manner can be locked up for life as far as I'm concerned....But I do kind of understand how a guy 70+ thinks about all of this differently.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:25 PM   #41
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
I understand Molson, but what does that have to do with today? I can't imagine how anyone not living in a cave would still think that police should not be involved in cases of abuse. If yo'ure talking about something in the family, yes. But what reason would an unrelated adult have for not following up on something like this in this day and age?
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:29 PM   #42
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
To think that they had an eyewitness, and that people would call them senile?

Goes back to the credibility of the alleged witness to the credibility of the accused. Reality is that it's almost certainly easier to get away with anything - much less something this heinous - proportionally with your reputation.

I don't follow a lot of Penn State internal politics, so maybe I'm overestimating the status of the assistant or something, but I'm assuming he was a pretty respected member of the staff/community. If that's the case, then to get any sort of action you're probably going to need to bring some fairly serious evidence to the table to get action that goes beyond "hey man, look, there's some people saying some pretty nasty shit about you right now. Anything you need to tell us?"

I'm not talking about right/wrong here, I'm just trying to look at it realistically. And yes, I'd say the odds of JoePa going senile are considerably higher than the odds of an accusation like this being believed or even being true.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:32 PM   #43
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Nope, you're seeing me argue that realistically unless Paterno had pictures or video that he took himself then there's probably a better chance of him being dismissed for being senile than anyone believing him if he ran screaming to the cops claiming something this outrageous.

edit to add: And that's assuming he believed the claim in the first place.

I don't know. He was a graduate assistant so I imagine that JoePa had some respect and trust for the guy. They are technically part of your coaching staff. So when one of those guys comes to your home distraught and tells you he saw a well-respected man within the program having sex with a child, it should cause some concern. This isn't the typical accusation.

But on top of that, JoePa knew Sandusky had a previous allegation of very similar circumstances.

He didn't do anything illegal, but I hope that when it comes to a child, and when it comes to multiple allegations (particularly from one on your own staff), it should be something you pursue harder.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:34 PM   #44
Autumn
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bath, ME
But Joe wouldn't be the one to be believed. He's just passing on information he was given. So his senility or believability isn't a question.

Yes, the credibility of the witness matters. But it matters in proportion to the details he gives. If he says, "I saw this guy acting funny around this kid," yes, people may not pass it on. If he says, "I saw this guy having sex with this kid," then as I say, unless the guy's a raving lunatic, this gets acted on. We've probably all seen sketchy situations that gave us a weird feeling, but we didn't feel were enough we could act on. That's a lot different than seeing someone have sex with a kid.

And that witness is the number one person who should have been pursuing this case. If the university made it seem like they were taking care of things and then didn't report anything, leaving that witness not to pursue this, I hope they get torn down.
Autumn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:36 PM   #45
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
I understand Molson, but what does that have to do with today? I can't imagine how anyone not living in a cave would still think that police should not be involved in cases of abuse. If yo'ure talking about something in the family, yes. But what reason would an unrelated adult have for not following up on something like this in this day and age?

Ya, I might be going too far off tangent here....organizations/families though, if someone is 60+, odds are that in their past, they've dealt with rumors or knowledge of abuse (or were victims of abuse) and saw everyone around them, including authority figures make great efforts keep it quiet, make excuses for it, keep it in house. That was their lives. It's no surprise it would be their first instinct today. We are the first generation who has been effectively taught to seek outside help immediately, it's just a part of our upbringing now.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:45 PM   #46
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
But Joe wouldn't be the one to be believed. He's just passing on information he was given. So his senility or believability isn't a question.

And he passed it along as required, correct? Without regard to credibility or anything beyond his responsibility, right? (Again, that's how I understand the situation, I could be mistaken). That seems to suggest that he didn't believe the allegation was credible enough to take to police himself, or at least that seems like a reasonable interpretation of the situation to me.

Quote:
But it matters in proportion to the details he gives.

Hmm ... I might not disagree with that, but our interpretation of how that works is apparently 180 degrees from each other.

I'd be more likely to believe a respected assistant / friend (I'm guessing) is occasionally swiping a pack of copy paper from the office than I am to believe that they've committed something this heinous. Absent any suspicions of your own, unless you're convinced that you're a horrible judge of human nature yourself (and can handle the self-indictment that brings) then I'm hard pressed to imagine an allegation less believable/credible without an extraordinary amount of evidence.

Quote:
And that witness is the number one person who should have been pursuing this case.

Now on this part we seem to agree.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:49 PM   #47
Izulde
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
If I can play a bit of devil's advocate here, let's say the GA went and told the police. Does said GA ever have a hope of landing a job in D-I college football after that? Or does he get the reputation of a narc and someone who can't be trusted to think of the program first?
__________________
2006 Golden Scribe Nominee
2006 Golden Scribe Winner
Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

Rookie Writer of the Year
Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)
Izulde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:51 PM   #48
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
And he passed it along as required, correct? Without regard to credibility or anything beyond his responsibility, right? (Again, that's how I understand the situation, I could be mistaken). That seems to suggest that he didn't believe the allegation was credible enough to take to police himself, or at least that seems like a reasonable interpretation of the situation to me.

If he didn't believe the allegation, why not fire the grad assistant? Would you really want someone on your staff falsely accusing people of having sex with children? And remember, this isn't the first allegation against Sandusky. At some point you'd think that he'd realize that something is fishy.

To me it seems less about believing the grad assistant and more about protecting the Penn State football program.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:53 PM   #49
JonInMiddleGA
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
If he didn't believe the allegation, why not fire the grad assistant?

Gone through the hassle of firing anyone lately? Most people I know would rather deal with employees taking a dump in their desk drawer than even start the process.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis
JonInMiddleGA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2011, 08:54 PM   #50
RainMaker
General Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Gone through the hassle of firing anyone lately? Most people I know would rather deal with employees taking a dump in their desk drawer than even start the process.
I think having a guy falsely accusing people of raping children in your locker room might be worth the trouble of firing.
RainMaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 AM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.