The Trump Presidency – 2016

[panerd]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

You mean science vs. demon sperm? This has nothing to do with politics and those that keep trying to make it political vs. a matter of science are why we are in the current state we are in. All the while other countries sit there and laugh.

Yeah blue team! A red team member died! Rah rah rah!

Its 100% political, just like when someone on the other side talks about the criminal background of Michael Brown or George Floyd. And the faux outrage goes back and forth.

[panerd]

[quote=RainMaker;3293657]He's a piece of shit who supported heartless and cruel policies throughout his life. The end of his life he spent dedicated to spreading false health information that put others lives at risk.

Care to expand on the policies throughout his life? Just general GOP disdain or something specific? 9/9/9? Godfathers pizza?

[ISiddiqui]

This is a ridiculous both-sides attempt. Cain dying was treated far far different than McCain dying - and they are on the same "team"

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[panerd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

This is a ridiculous both-sides attempt. Cain dying was treated far far different than McCain dying - and they are on the same "team"

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It's sad that him dying is being laughed about and mocked. It's not a both sides attempt it's being a human being. But maybe it's because hes black?

[molson]

Maybe it's not humanity's most shining moment, but it's difficult not to mock a guy (especially someone so prominent and influential), who died of the thing he mocked and told everyone was bullshit.

He had a very impressive life and career, but he made his own bed as to what his legacy will ultimately be.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by panerd

I am with you on not feeling bad for Cain and his horrible choices but to the people openly mocking him and making jokes, fucking heartless. Just shows the complete lack of empathy people have nowadays because you know blue team vs. red team! It's really sad.

I do not feel bad for them or for those around them who enabled their beliefs that this was not something that people needed to worry about. I do no openly mock them. I am an empathetic person who tries hard to understand the world other people walk in. At the same time, these are people who actively made the world more dangerous for those who thought that they were indeed correct. They were not correct, and their actions and those of others of their ilk continue to make life harder than it need be. Those repercussions will be long lasting and we will be paying for them collectively for years ahead.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And Trump floats his first "delay the election" tweet. Post-November 3rd could be even uglier than the past 6 months have been.

At least in the circles I've checked today, this isn't getting very good play from conservatives. I've seen some suggesting he's already given up on his reelection chances if he's tweeting like this.

I was expecting more mental gymnastics, but this has actually drawn fairly level headed responses.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

It's sad that him dying is being laughed about and mocked. It's not a both sides attempt it's being a human being. But maybe it's because hes black?

Maybe it is because he boasted about this virus being no big deal, made anti-mask statements, and propped up a false drug that doesn't do shit?

We laugh at Darwin Award winners all the time.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Its 100% political, just like when someone on the other side talks about the criminal background of Michael Brown or George Floyd. And the faux outrage goes back and forth.

The problem is the lines have become so blurred because the republican party during this pandemic has become the anti science party. People are mocking the guy for being anti-science, the problem is thats now the same thing as being a hard core republican.

[RainMaker]

I do feel bad for his family that he chose kissing the President's ass over wanting to stay alive to be with them.

[Ksyrup]

I've seen mostly the opposite - explaining that someone isn't making a definitive statement if they finish the sentence with a question mark.

It is telling, though, that McConnell and others have come out strongly against this. More evidence that they are cutting bait.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by panerd

It's sad that him dying is being laughed about and mocked. It's not a both sides attempt it's being a human being. But maybe it's because hes black?

Nah, not just because he's black.

TPUSA deletes tweet mocking masks after cofounder died of COVID-19 - Business Insider

This guy just wasn't as well known.

[molson]

The first thing I saw when I woke up this morning was a push notification about Trump calling for a postponement of the election. Before reality set in - how he's not going to be able to do that, and how even most Republicans have already spoken out against it - I really felt like I was in a movie or edgy HBO mini-series about shit really crumbling down.

And of course, we're not out of the woods. But that momentary feeling was pretty wild.

[bhlloy]

That’s not really the point though (and definitely not out of the woods yet) - the point is that we are going to have a sitting president doing everything he can over the next 3 months and beyond to undermine democracy and convince people the election is illegitimate - and somewhere between 20 - 40% of the country will believe him. That’s as scary as any scenario IMO. The path isn’t uphill from here.

[Ksyrup]

Some explaining away instead of condemning or saying it won't happen...

GOP Sen Cornyn tells reporters Trump’s election-delay tweet was a joke “so all you guys in the press, your heads will explode and you'll write about it”

— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) July 30, 2020

"You see real extremes in the language that is used on both sides. On one side you've got Joe Biden saying that if he is elected he'd be the most progressive president in history and you've got Trump who is speaking in the way that President Trump speaks."https://t.co/h9tJywGALF

— andrew kaczynski🤔 (@KFILE) July 30, 2020

[Butter]

Originally Posted by panerd

I am with you on not feeling bad for Cain and his horrible choices but to the people openly mocking him and making jokes, fucking heartless. Just shows the complete lack of empathy people have nowadays because you know blue team vs. red team! It's really sad.

Panerd, I guess you are just better than everyone here. I'm sure you have never heard someone die and thought to yourself "they kinda got what they deserve". Cain was never a public servant. He was actively involved in a misinformation campaign against the American public. FUCK HIM

[GrantDawg]

The co-founder of the Federalist society is calling for Trump to be impeached and removed

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[JPhillips]

I think the bigger worry is will states refuse to certify the election and throw it to the House of Representatives? That's still a long shot, but I think it's more likely than Trump being able to change or cancel the election.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah blue team! A red team member died! Rah rah rah!

Its 100% political, just like when someone on the other side talks about the criminal background of Michael Brown or George Floyd. And the faux outrage goes back and forth.

Consistent and on brand.

"I hate conservatives but I really fucking hate liberals"

SI

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think the bigger worry is will states refuse to certify the election and throw it to the House of Representatives? That's still a long shot, but I think it's more likely than Trump being able to change or cancel the election.

So what would be the suspects? Florida, North Carolina, Ohio,(maybe PA) all could go blue easily and still have a majority republican house. They probably have conservative state legislatures?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah blue team! A red team member died! Rah rah rah!

Its 100% political, just like when someone on the other side talks about the criminal background of Michael Brown or George Floyd. And the faux outrage goes back and forth.

You think you consistently racing in here with a Reason.com jersey in order to personally & directly criticize as many people as you possibly can somehow doesn't fit this mold? Oh, that is rich.

[Ksyrup]

I think the state legislature count is 26-24 in favor of Republicans.

[JPhillips]

MI, WI, PA, FL, NC

Off the top of my head. And the certification happens with the current legislature, not the new legislature.

[GrantDawg]

I am totally Blue, and I think it is sad that Herman Cain died. It actually took my breath when I read it.

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[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think the bigger worry is will states refuse to certify the election and throw it to the House of Representatives? That's still a long shot, but I think it's more likely than Trump being able to change or cancel the election.

Pretty sure if we are at that point it is an autocracy country this squabbling is pointless.

[Thomkal]

Lincoln Project with a look at a die-hard Republican waking up from a coma and surrounded by his Republican family:

Wake Up - YouTube

[RainMaker]

The party has not changed. Just saying the quiet parts out loud now. The Lincoln Project makes nice ads but it is still run by scumbags upset they have no power in the party anymore.

[RainMaker]

Don't believe the scare stories. A serious look at the numbers tells you there's no second wave starting. #Coronavirus https://t.co/IN4iqzkrox

— Herman Cain (@THEHermanCain) June 12, 2020

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The party has not changed. Just saying the quiet parts out loud now. The Lincoln Project makes nice ads but it is still run by scumbags upset they have no power in the party anymore.

Yes I'd like someone to challenge them on what happens after Biden is elected-do they go back to being Republicans who all (except Romney) voted no on impeachment.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Consistent and on brand.

"I hate conservatives but I really fucking hate liberals"

SI

That was literally my tagline here for awhile. Then the batshit crazy wing of Republicans took over.

[molson]

I know he's said some stuff, and it's all his responsibility, but I don't think Herman Cain had anything to do with his twitter account. I'm pretty sure that account posted a few of its quota of 10X daily snarky conservative remarks and memes after he died.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Consistent and on brand.

"I hate conservatives but I really fucking hate liberals"

SI

Never heard of the term but reading what you linked I will take it as a compliment!

EDIT: And this board is overwhelmingly liberal (someone will chime in it's Trump but the previous 20 years shows the balance has never been 50/50 so I tend to respond to the majority I guess more than JiMGa and maybe CUTiger and Edward?)

[panerd]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

You think you consistently racing in here with a Reason.com jersey in order to personally & directly criticize as many people as you possibly can somehow doesn't fit this mold? Oh, that is rich.

Yep. Sorry that someone interrupted you guys patting yourselves on the back and making jokes about someone's death. My god if it were about a lifetime criminal like George Floyd and people were questioning his life choices the place would go apeshit with the "Racist!" but this black guy supports Trump so fire away about him not liking masks and I guess deserving to die. Which I fully support wearing masks and wear one myself but what are we on like month 2 or 3 of this? You guys act like you knew masks were the answer back in April and that these outrageous case numbers aren't from bars where people don't wear masks anyways.

EDIT: And by the way reason.com is pretty much divided on the COVID stuff (actually most stuff). Sadly even reason is more balanced than FOFC nowadays. I remember a few years back when posters like Quiksand and SI among others were the epitome of logic and reason. Discussions about how unlikely dying in a terror attack, the media hysteria over SARS and Ebola, etc now it's just the company line about how no protesters got COVID, how Trump is responsible for all 150K deaths etc which defy logic completely.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Pretty sure if we are at that point it is an autocracy country this squabbling is pointless.

The thing is it would all be following the letter of the law.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

now it's just the company line about how no protesters got COVID, how Trump is responsible for all 150K deaths etc which defy logic completely.

Which is probably why no one here has actually said those things.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Which is probably why no one here has actually said those things.

You know what I meant. To your credit you dont hide toeing the company line but as I said some of the the others at least had some areas where they differed somewhat. Quiksand is probably the worst with his.doom and gloom about the stock market from a guy that seems bright enough to understand the market always does well no matter who is in power. SI used to be the "outliers" type guy who saw through the bullshit of both sides but now is like a CNN news clip. I mean maybe it is Trump and believe me I have no love for Trump.or honestly people like Cain but geez it is an echo chamber on FOFC and I really think quite a few posters dont even see it.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The thing is it would all be following the letter of the law.

Which is probably why we'll suffer that fate in 2028-32 under a GOP administration that wouldn't bluster and fumble about it like Trump does. They'll be competent.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

EDIT: And by the way reason.com is pretty much divided on the COVID stuff (actually most stuff). Sadly even reason is more balanced than FOFC nowadays. I remember a few years back when posters like Quiksand and SI among others were the epitome of logic and reason. Discussions about how unlikely dying in a terror attack, the media hysteria over SARS and Ebola, etc now it's just the company line about how no protesters got COVID, how Trump is responsible for all 150K deaths etc which defy logic completely.

I was an epitome of logic? Cool. I just figured I was long winded.

As to the rest, I'm pretty sure I've never said either of those things, but it's been a long couple of months. Feel free to point out the post where I did - you can search through my post history just as easy as I can.

But here's what I would say about those two statements now (it's probably not really important now but go nuts if you want):

"no protesters got COVID" - nope, I'm pretty sure some did; outdoor event is going to be safer than indoor event but a lot of those people looked pretty packed in outdoors; though I'm pretty sure I did make the argument that people may feel they are more in danger from police than from a pandemic so they felt that was justified; somehow (and I'm not saying you did - I frankly don't remember) that got morphed into some oversimplified argument about "well shouldn't we all be hermits" as a counterbalance to "so it's ok for most stuff to open up" which is basically glibly equating a fight for civil rights to Karen wants a haircut. I want a haircut, too, but I'm also going to acknowledge that one is slightly more important in the grand scheme of history than the other.

"Trump is responsible for all 150K deaths" - again, nope. I don't like Trump but I'm not putting all 150K deaths at his feet. That said, there are a lot of deaths at his feet. That first wave was mainly NYC - it's dense and there were some bad decisions made especially in the governor's and mayor's office, too. But anytime you introduce a virus into a densely populated city like that(and NYC is unique in its density), it's going to be a challenge. That was the first wave and is still responsible for a large part of the death toll in this country. I think Presidents Obama or Bush or Clinton would have seen similar death tolls. Yes, there would have been different plans or different specific deaths (maybe fewer people die in nursing homes but more people die in hospitals or whatever). The biggest problem in the first wave from him was the botched PPE response and lack of plan... which leads us to, yeah, Trump gets to own most of the second wave. His push to get things reopened prematurely lead to our first wave lockdown being pretty much negated. His botched PPE response and mind-numbingly callous/stupid mask position led to much more spread in the next couple of months. While other countries are mostly nipping this in the bud, with minor hotspots (Hammer and Dance stuff), we let it grow like wildfire so that contract tracing is now rendered ineffective and we're talking about reckless stuff like re-opening schools in corona hot spots because half the country is a hot spot.

If you thought I was "reasonable" before and now I'm not, maybe I've changed. It's possible. It's been a few years and I've been mostly busy with a small human that's about to be 5 next week (geez- has it been that long). But I'm pretty stubborn and most acquaintances seem to use words like "steadfast" or "grounded". Again, could just be saying what they think I want to hear. And I'm not above changing my mind if I get new information. I substantially changed my views on policing in the last couple of months not because of what CNN* was putting out or the Democratic party or whoever but because I watched what happened from a number of different sources

Another option might be that the situation is no longer reasonable and holding up two sides or three (or four or however many) competing ideas as having equal merit is just false equivalency. I think this country is more volatile than anytime in my lifetime and that includes the scary time just after 9/11.

Literally just today we had

• a former presidential candidate die of a pandemic
• a civil rights leader and Congressman's funeral with 3 former Presidents eulogizing (but not the current one)
• a jobs report of 1.4M lost and that being "relatively good news"
• GDP shrinking the most for a single quarter ever
• a $1-3T budget bill winding its way through Congress
• whatever the hell this whole Ghislaine Maxwell thing is
• oh, and a President suggesting to delay the Presidential election.

Five years ago, every single one of those stories leads the news of the day it happens. Hell, the NBA returning and kneeling for the anthem probably does. So I think it's safe to say we are living in extraordinary times so it's

Similarly, you don't see me dancing on Cain's grave. Though I personally feel bad about not feeling more bad about it - I mean as much as any of us feel a connection to what essentially isn't a real person to us (celebrities, politicians, athletes - we don't really know these people, though we can form these weird asymmetric bonds with some). But I am also a pretty strong utilitarian - always have been. And it's really hard to resist the calculation that his death may save many more lives. Of course, it's much easier to say this because I don't know him (or Bill Montgomery; or their families). And I'm quite uncomfortable with that aspect of this whole situation.

SI


*CNN, really? this is where it's more insulting or sounds like you're just grinding an axe or trolling; The Atlantic or Vox or something but, CNN, c'mon

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by panerd

...Sadly even reason is more balanced than FOFC nowadays...

Balanced isn’t always good. If there’s a glass full of cyanide, you don’t want half the room saying it’s OK to drink it...

[SirFozzie]

McConell and Trump are do-si-doing, trying to throw the other under the bus. Hopefully they both get caught under the wheels.

The White House is willing to cut a deal with Democrats that leaves out Senate Republican legislation aimed at protecting employers, hospitals and schools from coronavirus-related lawsuits, according to two people with knowledge of internal White House planning.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...ge%2Fstory-ans

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

You know what I meant.

If you're going to criticize the outrageous things people say, it would help to use statements that were actually said.

Also, too, if you're going to attack people for being blindly loyal to parties, some evidence of that would help. For example, my two most common statements about the Dems are, they don't stand for anything, and, they are cowards. Not everything you disagree with is evidence of sheepish loyalty to corrupt powerbrokers.

[JPhillips]

dola

From Vanity Fair:

Kushner’s team hammered out a detailed plan, which Vanity Fair obtained. It stated, “Current challenges that need to be resolved include uneven testing capacity and supplies throughout the US, both between and within regions, significant delays in reporting results (4-11 days), and national supply chain constraints, such as PPE, swabs, and certain testing reagents.”

The plan called for the federal government to coordinate distribution of test kits, so they could be surged to heavily affected areas, and oversee a national contact-tracing infrastructure. It also proposed lifting contract restrictions on where doctors and hospitals send tests, allowing any laboratory with capacity to test any sample. It proposed a massive scale-up of antibody testing to facilitate a return to work. It called for mandating that all COVID-19 test results from any kind of testing, taken anywhere, be reported to a national repository as well as to state and local health departments.

And it proposed establishing “a national Sentinel Surveillance System” with “real-time intelligence capabilities to understand leading indicators where hot spots are arising and where the risks are high vs. where people can get back to work.”

Who knows if this would have been implemented well, but it sounds like there was a plan that could have worked. Too bad the WH threw away the plan.

[albionmoonlight]

So what's the deal with other countries not letting Americans in right now?

I am surprised that we've heard so little about it.

It seems like the sorts of people who can afford to travel internationally are the sorts of people who actually get listened to by Congress, the media, etc.

I would have expected more "She used to visit her daughter in France every three months. Now she doesn't know when she will get to see her again" puff pieces in the NYT and the like.

Is it that anyone with juice can just get around the other countries' "bans," so only regular folks like us would be affected?

I can't imagine that business travel has stopped or we would have heard about it. Are they just letting those guys in and out no problem?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yep. Sorry that someone interrupted you guys patting yourselves on the back and making jokes about someone's death. My god if it were about a lifetime criminal like George Floyd and people were questioning his life choices the place would go apeshit with the "Racist!" but this black guy supports Trump so fire away about him not liking masks and I guess deserving to die. Which I fully support wearing masks and wear one myself but what are we on like month 2 or 3 of this? You guys act like you knew masks were the answer back in April and that these outrageous case numbers aren't from bars where people don't wear masks anyways.

Again, it is absolutely rich that you use every chance you can get to run in here and personally attack people's morals & motivations to their faces for things they have never said, while frothing about empathy for public figures. If empathy were your concern you would be disappointed in the response and keep public criticisms to yourself, you're just desperate to correct people.

[molson]

Youtube has been recommending I watch old network coverage of presidential election nights. They're pretty fascinating to peak into.

I was watching 1980 for a bit. Tom Brokaw was sitting in front off a sea of blue on the map behind him (Republicans were blue until sometime in the 90s, I think), and he was saying, "They said the Republicans were done after '68, they said the Republicans were done after Watergate, and look them now".

The Republican party will definitely have a big opportunity after Trump to rise again. I have no idea which direction they'll go though.

'84 is kind of sad/hilarious. I knew Mondale won one state, I didn't realize that that was the very last state to be called, and I'm not sure they even did call it election night. Mondale ended up pulling it out by 0.18% Everybody's sitting around waiting to see on Minnesota and if Reagan could get a clean sweep.

[Jas_lov]

I hope Republicans ditch the anti-science and anti-immigration positions but I doubt it. Until they change those I won't even consider them. They've just gotten worse and worse over the years and Trump took them over the deep end. Maybe if he gets blown out by 10+ points they change but after Romney lost they just got crazier.

[JPhillips]

At some point I read that they switched blue/red each cycle so as not to play favorites, but after 2000 red and blue became so identified with Bush and Gore that they stopped switching.

[molson]

Also on the red/blue there was a discussion of how to follow along if you had a black and white TV, I guess there was a shading difference. Made me go down a rabbit hole of how long black and white TVs were around. We definitely had a little one in the kitchen in the mid-80. In the UK, where you need to buy a TV license, there were 7,000 active black and white TV licenses as of 2018, down from 212,000 in 2000.

[NobodyHere]

A TV license?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

A TV license?

Yes, in the UK you need to purchase a TV license if you watch any live TV. It's what pays for the BBC.