Official 2008-2009 MLB Offseason Thread

[sterlingice]

Reports are out there that Zack Greinke has been signed to a 4 year contract, buying out his last 2 years of arbitration and 2 years of free agency.

This might make up for a lot of stupid crap this offseason, particularly since there was a sense that the Royals were somewhat "auditioning" for Zack by showing a continued commitment to winning, even if the money was misspent in quite a few instances (we've already gone around and around on this)

SI

[Logan]

Good move. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any instances where this sort of deal hasn't worked out well for the team. Anyone (maybe too soon to tell)?

[sterlingice]

BTW, deal is official, announced by the club, thru 2012- terms not released. Press conference at 2:30.

Originally Posted by Logan

Good move. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any instances where this sort of deal hasn't worked out well for the team. Anyone (maybe too soon to tell)?

Depends on what you mean by "this sort of deal". I know the Royals bought out a couple of Berroa's arbitration years and regretted that as he fell off the face of the earth.

Did Michael Young's deal buy out arbitration? I'm sure the Rangers were happy about that a year ago but can't wait to ditch that albatross already.

I'm sure there are more- people just remember the good ones. But, yeah, on the whole- they do seem to work out better for the club.

SI

[Logan]

Good call on Berroa (shouldn't have expected you to forget that one ).

As for Young, looks like it was just a normal extension according to this article.

Young is signed through this season and the Rangers have a $5 million option for 2008. They will pick that up and the new deal will begin in 2009 and run through the 2013 season.

[sterlingice]

Well, we're thrilled to see Zack for 4 more and Gil for 3 more at the top of our rotation. We may not be able to go out and get CC in free agency, but I'll take that pair as a good 1/2 and really like my chances if we can get a 3 on that same level in the next year or two.

SI

[Coffee Warlord]

And there was much rejoicing, as Ronny "Neifi Perez Jr" Cedeno was traded to Seattle today.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

And there was much rejoicing, as Ronny "Neifi Perez Jr" Cedeno was traded to Seattle today.

Its about time a rebuilding team took a chance on him. Probably 2 years of the cubs destroying his development too late, though.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

And there was much rejoicing, as Ronny "Neifi Perez Jr" Cedeno was traded to Seattle today.

Cedeno still has a chance at being a useful player - he's average defensively with a reputation for being better than that, and there's a major gap between what he showed offensively in AAA and in the Majors, so there's potential for some improvement there.

Add in a guy in Garrett Olsen that is also young and cheap and is due for a pretty big regression to the mean and the minor league track record to suggest more room for improvement, and I like this deal from the M's perspective.

Heilman was likely to be relegated to the M's bullpen and that probably would've caused friction with him, and he just doesn't seem to have the repertoire to succeed as a starting pitcher.

[Logan]

I love that there's another team who didn't want to give Heilman a shot.

I hate that prick.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I love that there's another team who didn't want to give Heilman a shot.

I hate that prick.

Well, it was a combination of Seattle already having too many starting pitcher candidates and the fact that Heilman just doesn't seem to have the stuff to be a decent starter.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by Logan

Good move. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any instances where this sort of deal hasn't worked out well for the team. Anyone (maybe too soon to tell)?

Joe Mays for the Twins. Went 17-13 with a 3.16 ERA in his third year. Signed to a 4 year deal after that and subsequently blew out his elbow and never saw an ERA under 5 again.

[Chief Rum]

I guess Manny's told Pujols that "no one wants to sign me".

I actually sorta feel bad for the guy, because he's really caught in a numbers situation--but the reason he is there is because the asshole agent he hired has pinholed the required price and not copping to the fact he isn't going to get it.

Manny deserves what he gets, of course, for the stunts he pulled in Boston, and for hiring Boras, but other than that, I don't really have anything against Manny as a player and personality. Well, more of let's say there are things I don't like about him (travel secretary, and so forth), but he is fun and exciting and generally smiling and having a good time out there.

I am hoping wherever he ends up, he goes there soon.

[lungs]

Any Braves fans out there?

They made an excellent hire in Jim Powell as their new radio guy. He will be dearly missed here in Milwaukee and I had hoped he'd someday take the reigns from Bob Uecker.

Powell is simply one of the best when it comes to being prepared and his knowledge is hard to surpass.

Like I said, I'm doubting Braves fans will be regretting this move. If they do, we'd gladly take him back in Milwaukee.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I guess Manny's told Pujols that "no one wants to sign me".

I actually sorta feel bad for the guy, because he's really caught in a numbers situation--but the reason he is there is because the asshole agent he hired has pinholed the required price and not copping to the fact he isn't going to get it.

Manny deserves what he gets, of course, for the stunts he pulled in Boston, and for hiring Boras, but other than that, I don't really have anything against Manny as a player and personality. Well, more of let's say there are things I don't like about him (travel secretary, and so forth), but he is fun and exciting and generally smiling and having a good time out there.

I am hoping wherever he ends up, he goes there soon.

Boras has put him in a no-win situation.

He's not going to get 4 years/$120 million or whatever the goal was in this economic climate, with the amount of free agents there are out there. Even without baggage, that wasn't going to happen at Manny's age.

And if you sign him for 1-2 years, he's either going to be a huge disappointment, or he's going to perform but then hold out and fake injuries to get a new deal or force a trade.

If I was the Dodgers I still probably would have taken a chance on that 2 year deal they offered in the beginning of the offseason. But now, with no market for him, they shouldn't go anywhere near that.

And I'm kind of disappointing to see Varitek back, even for $5 million in 2009 and a dual option in 2010 ($5 million team option, if they decline, Varitek can exercise $3 million option). The deal includes incentives for playing time, which will just create another drama down the road. Francona was afraid to pinch-hit for Varitek, I'm sure he'll be afraid to sit him to avoid contract bonuses.

[Logan]

Just put him on the Mets, please. I think he'd take 2 for $40MM in a second, but I'd give him $30 mil for the year instead of a two year deal.

[ISiddiqui]

If he would take 2 for $40 mil, then he would have signed with the Dodgers already.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

If he would take 2 for $40 mil, then he would have signed with the Dodgers already.

He wouldn't take 2/$40 in November (or with the Red Sox, where those were the option years through 2010), but it may be a different story now. The Dodgers pulled their offer the table. We don't know about ANY substantiated offers since then. 2/$40 would safe face, but someone might very well get him for less.

Boras cost Varitek a few million, but he could end up costing Manny a lot more. Of course, Boras wouldn't have gotten a cut of those options years, which is really why we're here with Manny.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just put him on the Mets, please. I think he'd take 2 for $40MM in a second, but I'd give him $30 mil for the year instead of a two year deal.

I love the "Manny" chants outside the SNY studios.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by molson

He wouldn't take 2/$40 in November (or with the Red Sox, where those were the option years through 2010), but it may be a different story now. The Dodgers pulled their offer the table. We don't know about ANY substantiated offers since then. 2/$40 would safe face, but someone might very well get him for less.

Angels should really sign Manny - ESPN

On the surface, this should be the perfect match, but the Dodgers seem reluctant to increase their original offer (2 years/$45 mil) and Ramirez and Boras seem set on waiting for a better offer to come their way.

It appears the original offer is still on the table if Manny wants it.

[Big Fo]

Damn, Bud Selig made $17.5m in 2007, more than all but three players.

si.com link

[Atocep]

Oliver Perez back with the Mets for 3 years and $36 million it seems.

Now they need to get one of the corner OFers on the market because there's no excuse to head into next season with the worst set of corners in baseball considering whats out there and the price they'll likely sign at.

[Logan]

I'm fine with those numbers, seems like there's also a 4th year option based on innings pitched.

I'd still like to bring Sheets in too.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm fine with those numbers, seems like there's also a 4th year option based on innings pitched.

I'd still like to bring Sheets in too.

Seems a little high for what he's brought to the table the last 3 years. Average to below-average if you look at his defense-independent numbers. StatCorner has him at 5.2 WAR over the last 3 years. I'm not totally up on what the current going rate is, but $12M per for 3 years seems on the high side.

From a scouting standpoint, his K rate is obviously his best attribute, but it's countered by a high walk rate and he's a pretty extreme flyball pitcher, so he's going to be prone to the longball. If he can improve his control while retaining his ability to miss bats, he could become a pretty valuable pitcher, but that's iffy.

[Logan]

Yeah, he's remarkably inconsistent, any Met fan knows it. He busts out a 7 IP, 2 H, 10 K shutout effort and follows it up by a 6 IP, 4 ER extremely mediocre game, and then follows that up with a 4.1 IP, 1 ER, 5 BBs, 120 pitch start that kills the pen. One of the reasons most of us were hesitant about bringing him back was the simple question of how will he perform with an expensive, long term deal in his pocket? $12MM per is a lot for him, would I feel better if it was 8 or 9 mil, sure, but the difference is nothing and I'd much rather have him than Jon Garland or Randy Wolf.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Damn, Bud Selig made $17.5m in 2007, more than all but three players.

si.com link

BUT BUT .. why wouldn't he be the commish for the love of the game?

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It appears the original offer is still on the table if Manny wants it.

Every published report about that offer has stated that it "expired" back in November, though not that the Dodgers have cut off negotiations, so it's kind of a nothing point anyway.

But I don't see why the Dodgers have to shell out that kind of cash when there's been zero confirmed interest from anyone else, and quite a few GMs coming out and saying they're not interested.

I'm sure Boras is hoping the Yankees get involved, and is counting on that Dodgers offer as a fallback. But if the Yankees aren't involved, and nobody else is either, the Dodgers shouldn't pay him that much.

Edit:

Jason Stark says the current Dodgers offer is now 1 year, $25 million, and that there's a 48-hour deadline on that offer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3880218

[ISiddiqui]

Manny Ramirez rejects Los Angeles Dodgers' one-year, $25 million offer - ESPN

The 1 year deal has been rejected. Manny and Boras seemingly wants a 2 year (at least) deal.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Red Sox should sign him to a one-year $20M deal, with a team option for another year at $20M.

[Bad-example]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

The Red Sox should sign him to a one-year $20M deal, with a team option for another year at $20M.

We are talking about reality here.

[gstelmack]

I will be laughing if Manny ends up with less money after his shennanigans than he would have had if he'd just played straight with Boston the whole time...

[molson]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I will be laughing if Manny ends up with less money after his shennanigans than he would have had if he'd just played straight with Boston the whole time...

Ah yes, the "Varitek special" Boras is becoming known for.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I will be laughing if Manny ends up with less money after his shennanigans than he would have had if he'd just played straight with Boston the whole time...

haha - that'd be great

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by molson

But I don't see why the Dodgers have to shell out that kind of cash when there's been zero confirmed interest from anyone else, and quite a few GMs coming out and saying they're not interested.

Dodgers want Manny back, but not for five years (obviously), and getting an embarrassed Manny back defeats the purpose. It's not that they 'have' to spend that much, it's that allowing Manny to save face is the most likely way to get the good-teammate-and-slugger Manny they had the last two months of the season.

Getting a "fuck it" Manny back defeats the purpose of retaining him.

[JPhillips]

Good signing by the Rangers. Andrew Jones goes for a minor league deal that only guarantees 500K with 1 million in incentives if he makes the team. That's a great deal on the risk he can approach his .900 ops of 2006.

[Atocep]

Ryan Howard gets 3 years and $54 million. Ridiculous per-year money, but at least it's a short deal. He's already started his decline and because of his body its going to be an ugly one. This could be the only multi-year deal he gets.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Ryan Howard gets 3 years and $54 million. Ridiculous per-year money, but at least it's a short deal. He's already started his decline and because of his body its going to be an ugly one. This could be the only multi-year deal he gets.

Compared to the Ibanez deal, this is a major bargain.

[ISiddiqui]

That was a ridiculous deal by the Phils. Especially in this market.

[Atocep]

Gotta love Joe Posnanski.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ner/index.html

OK, you'll probably figure this out pretty quickly, but here we go ...

I'm thinking of a baseball player who has never played for a losing team. Not even once. Well, that's not technically true: He played very briefly for a terrible team when he was 21, a team that had been terrible for a very, very long time. Then, the next year, his rookie year, that terrible team became instantly great. And he helped lead his team to the World Series the very next year.

The guy has never, ever played for a loser since. Not ever. He carried his teams to the playoffs 10 times in his 15 full seasons, and four times those teams went to the World Series. His teams, over his rather lengthy career, have a .578 winning percentage, which is rather incredible. That's about 94 wins per year. That's better than Bobby Cox's winning percentage, way better than Sparky Anderson's or Joe Torre's or Tony LaRussa's. It's a tick better than Jack Morris' career winning percentage, and this guy wasn't a pitcher. This guy played every day.

But it's even more than his winning percentages. He helped turned around the fortunes of one dying franchise. He helped end one of the longest droughts in American sports. He turned around a third team instantly after being traded there. This isn't like the story of Derek Jeter, who wins every year but always for the New York Yankees. No. Wherever this guy goes, no matter the tradition, no matter curses, no matter anything, his teams win. His teams win big.

You could argue, based on all this, that this player is the greatest winner of his generation. We all know that one player in baseball cannot make the whole difference, one player cannot turn a bad team into a good one. But you can't argue with the man's record. He's a winner. He might even be THE winner.

And so, picture that winner in your mind. Imagine how he must play the game. He's a World Series MVP. He's a preposterously good clutch hitter -- the guy hits 30 points higher with runners in scoring position than he does with no runners on base. He has hit lots and lots of grand slams. He throws out base runners at the plate -- he twice led the league in outfield assists. Can you see him? Can you feel his clubhouse presence? Can you sense how many little things he must do to help the team win?

What does baseball's greatest winner look like anyway? A little bit of Clemente? A little bit of Rose? A little bit of Eckstein? He is exactly what every baseball team wants, a guy who performs in the big moments, a guy who doesn't just know how to win but a guy who has won, a guy who always wins, no matter the team, no matter the city, no matter the history, no matter what. The biggest winner around.

What does he look like? Think about it: He must run out every ground ball. He must play defense with passion. He must have a supreme level of concentration -- he has to come to play every single day. His teammates must love him. His manager must sing his praises daily. He must not care about his own numbers. He must not ever lose his focus.
Yes. The guy's a winner.

You already knew that this was MannyBManny Ramirez.
Show your work section

• MannyBManny's career record: 1363-997 (.578 winning percentage).
• MannyB's core numbers with the bases empty: .299/.386/.568.
• MannyB's core numbers with runners in scoring position: .329/.454/.607.
• Cleveland Indians record year before his rookie season: 76-86.
• Cleveland Indians record his first two full seasons: 166-91 (.646 inning percentage).
• Boston Red Sox World Series victories from 1919-2001 (when MB arrived): 0.
• Boston Red Sox World Series victories from 2001-2008 (the MB era): 2.
• 2008 Los Angeles Dodgers record when MannyB arrived: 54-54.
• 2008 Los Angeles Dodgers record after MannyB: 30-24, playoff sweep of Cubs, loss to Phillies in NLCS (though MannyB hit .533).
• MannyB had 19 outfield assists in 1996, 17 assists in 2005.
• MannyB has 20 career grand slams, behind only Lou Gehrig's 23.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Compared to the Ibanez deal, this is a major bargain.

I had no idea there was language in the contract specifically prohibiting opposing teams from using lefthanded pitchers.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Gotta love Joe Posnanski.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ner/index.html

Too bad he's a juicer.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Royals resigned Mark Teahan to a 1 year, 3.75M deal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

Too bad he's a juicer.

That's not fair at all.

Posnanski swears that he believed there was nothing in the syringes except printer ink & White Out and has no idea how any banned substances got in there.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Ryan Howard gets 3 years and $54 million. Ridiculous per-year money, but at least it's a short deal. He's already started his decline and because of his body its going to be an ugly one. This could be the only multi-year deal he gets.

I don't understand this deal at all. They just bought out his arbitration years- no free agency year. So, they ran to the very high end of arbitration awards and locked him up- there's no benefit to the team. They would have paid less or the same if they had just done 1 year settlements between swapping numbers and the hearing. Either he hits well and gets similar numbers each year or any number of things from injury to performance decline happens and they save money over the contract. Instead, they guarantee him a bunch of cash that they didn't have to and don't buy out a single free agent year. Why?

SI

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

To avoid cab fare to the arbitration hearings, I'd guess.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's not fair at all.

Posnanski swears that he believed there was nothing in the syringes except printer ink & White Out and has no idea how any banned substances got in there.

You have to realize- Poz has never written a bad word about anyone. He writes for the KC Star and it's always funny when he and Whitlock have an article side by side. On the one hand, you have this naive starry eyed optimism and on the other, Whitlock is bitching about whatever he's bitching about that day. I mean, geez, this is a guy who every year- think about that: every year- comes up with a column about why the Royals will win the World Series or make the playoffs. So, yeah, I could see that he actually believes that.

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I don't understand this deal at all. They just bought out his arbitration years- no free agency year. So, they ran to the very high end of arbitration awards and locked him up- there's no benefit to the team. They would have paid less or the same if they had just done 1 year settlements between swapping numbers and the hearing. Either he hits well and gets similar numbers each year or any number of things from injury to performance decline happens and they save money over the contract. Instead, they guarantee him a bunch of cash that they didn't have to and don't buy out a single free agent year. Why?

SI

Perhaps to buy the good will that comes from not threatening to go to arbitration each year or to avoid the negative feelings that come from arbitration hearings?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

If they're not planning on signing him past arbitration, what do those good feelings matter? If they are planning on signing him past arbitration, why didn't they buy out a year or two now?

[lungs]

Braden Looper is signing with the Brewers.

[Butter]

How are the Reds going to win the 2009 World Series, you ask?

Jacque Jones is going to beat everyone's ass, single-handedly. THAT'S how.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's not fair at all.

Posnanski swears that he believed there was nothing in the syringes except printer ink & White Out and has no idea how any banned substances got in there.

Let's keep in mind that Poz was already in the 95th percentile of baseball writers - the juice is merely what put him over the top. He'd still be a Hall of Fame writer without the juice...