Werewolf LVI: Beneath the Iron Cross - GAME OVER, VILLAGERS WIN! - Page 13

Antmeister · 10-03-2007, 12:31 PM

Wow! Amazing! Hadn't seen that happen before. Good job AC. So I will continue with the vote from yesterday:

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Antmeister · 10-03-2007, 12:32 PM

Ok....I have to remember to ignore all of hoop's posts. Geez.

Barkeep49 · 10-03-2007, 12:38 PM

Hoops now you're just getting greedy. You are the first person to be an openly acknowledged wolf to live more than a day. Two? Two is just greedy. Arlington Colt is our legend from this game. Stop trying to horn in on his fun.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 12:42 PM

BK, it probably is greedy. But if the seer/fool didn't scan me last night then how will you ever validate what role they have? What if I'm lying - don't you want to know if you have a role that can help find the bad guys going forward?

If I'm telling the truth (I am) then you kill RendeR today, me tomorrow. It makes no difference in the final outcome. Not in days, not in results.

If I'm lying (I'm not) and you kill me first, then the Seer/Fool has no way to validate their scan results the rest of the way - if they are the real seer they can build trust based on returns of villager. But those are worthless if they are the fool.

Getting greedy? Every game

That is why I didn't mention this last night. But as long as I'm around I'll try to come up with some reason for people to lynch someone besides me. I'm very consistent that way. The fact is that my reason is pretty good in this case.

And if the seer did scan me already (regardless of result) then proceed with voting me off the island and have fun the rest of the way. They would at least know if their role is providing meaningful information and can make an intelligent determination on when to share that info with the rest of you.

path12 · 10-03-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

BK, it probably is greedy. But if the seer/fool didn't scan me last night then how will you ever validate what role they have? What if I'm lying - don't you want to know if you have a role that can help find the bad guys going forward?

I think that whether or not the seer/fool validates (if they are even in the game) isn't really all that crucial at this point. Worst case scenario after you get lynched is that RendeR is good and there is a loose wolf around......and the ratio would very much favor the village in that case.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 12:50 PM

Is that really the worst case, Path?

I've done pretty much all I can in the last 24 hours to help out the villagers - sabotaged night actions, given you a wolf, and promised to leave people alone again tomorrow night if I'm the last wolf standing. It really doesn't get any better than that for the villagers, does it?

jeheinz72 · 10-03-2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Is that really the worst case, Path?

I've done pretty much all I can in the last 24 hours to help out the villagers - sabotaged night actions, given you a wolf, and promised to leave people alone again tomorrow night if I'm the last wolf standing. It really doesn't get any better than that for the villagers, does it?

But why wait? We've got the info already. We have you, and a name to look at next. I don't see why it's now in our best interest to save you.

If you're telling the truth, then great. But keeping you around longer doesn't make your information any truthier

If you're lying, then we have an off-chance to save ourselves tomorrow from a bad lynch, or are at worst-case of square one. Plus if you are lying, then odds are you're lying about no-conversion in which case we have 2 other wolves flopping around this joint.

path12 · 10-03-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Is that really the worst case, Path?

I've done pretty much all I can in the last 24 hours to help out the villagers - sabotaged night actions, given you a wolf, and promised to leave people alone again tomorrow night if I'm the last wolf standing. It really doesn't get any better than that for the villagers, does it?

OK, worst case is that I get my throat ripped out tonight. And there were four wolves total.

I do think we've made an assumption (seer/fool) that we've seen no evidence of even being in the game.

Barkeep49 · 10-03-2007, 12:57 PM

path: You should realize that the scenario hoops has setup isn't that simple, since Render will show up clean when we lynch him. Having a reliable seer would be great, as I would be willing to make yet another 1-1 as I have to think that there were 4 starting wolves not 3. Anyhow, I'm still in favor of lynching hoops tonight, and stopping with the games. We have serious work left to do and it'll be impossible to do with him hanging around as a distraction.

Antmeister · 10-03-2007, 12:59 PM

hoopsguy, in my opinion, has to be a wolf or at least a wolfing. Wolfings come up as villagers when they die and I think this may be the reason why he is getting bold, because he knows what the end result will be. Now if he turns up a villager, I believe we got a wolfling.

Now if he ends up being a werewolf, I don't know what to think. The reason why I say this is because hoopsguy is pretty much a team person and I can easily see him sacrificing himself for the good of the team. Not sure if this is the situation or not, but if we really got rid of our seer when we are all thinking he is a fool, it would be brilliant to play it that way. Just throwing that out there.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 01:02 PM

Is there anything in the rules about a conversion? I know everyone suspects that is the case when there isn't a kill but I don't believe the rules allow for it. Heck, if it was an option I would probably have exercised it because it would have given us a chance to continue the game.

The way I looked at it was that there are two trusted villager + a bodyguard + a possible seer left out there. Too many targets for RendeR to kill the rest of the way on his own. The game is over, for all intents and purposes. The only detail left is the order that you (the collective village) proceed to end it.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 01:14 PM

I'm really not trying to be a distraction today. I've laid out the scenario that I think is most useful for you guys in terms of risk mitigation.

If you take me out today I doubt that RendeR will leave someone alive tonight like I did last night. The PM I got this morning was very frustrated with my thought process - he wanted to play it out and see if we could win, even though I'm sure we are mathematically eliminated.

DaddyTorgo · 10-03-2007, 01:30 PM

this game is...interesting. It's certainly going to be one for the record books.

we definitely haven't heard from everyone yet, we should likely wait until after work-hours to see if our fool/seer did scan hoops last night and what that will tell us about them.

hoops' play is...interesting

jeheinz72 · 10-03-2007, 01:30 PM

Gotta say I'm a little bummed if RendeR is a wolf and was outed. I was onto him on Day One and once we cleared hoops out I was going to push him again. His explanation to me didn't hold water (said he'd be quiet all game then said why he'd be quiet that night)

path12 · 10-03-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

path: You should realize that the scenario hoops has setup isn't that simple, since Render will show up clean when we lynch him. Having a reliable seer would be great, as I would be willing to make yet another 1-1 as I have to think that there were 4 starting wolves not 3. Anyhow, I'm still in favor of lynching hoops tonight, and stopping with the games. We have serious work left to do and it'll be impossible to do with him hanging around as a distraction.

Oh no, I totally understand how hoops has set up RendeR. And agree that hoops needs to be lynched tonight.

path12 · 10-03-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

we definitely haven't heard from everyone yet, we should likely wait until after work-hours to see if our fool/seer did scan hoops last night and what that will tell us about them.

I don't think they would say one way or the other. The important thing is for them to know if they are the seer or the fool, not us at this point.

DaddyTorgo · 10-03-2007, 01:37 PM

right. Although they do still have the bodyguard to protect them at least for one more night

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 02:47 PM

See what happens when I don't post in the thread? We get an hour of nothing.

OK, how about planning future moves for Day 4 when I'm gone?

Are you going to actually believe what I said about RendeR? Or are you going to move in another direction? A discussion of pros/cons is a lot more interesting than zero posts.

Passacaglia · 10-03-2007, 02:48 PM

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 02:56 PM

Pass, that was one of the more insightful comments this afternoon. Thank you for that.

I knew that EagleFan should not have taken you out last night on his way out the door

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 03:05 PM

At the very least, I'm glad that all the wolves (wait, I mean just RendeR) took my advice and stayed out of the thread today. No reason for them to get involved here and potentially give away info that could be used in the coming days when we rally for the win.

ntndeacon · 10-03-2007, 03:11 PM

I think we should make a bridge outta him.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I think we should make a bridge outta him.

???

Neon_Chaos · 10-03-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I think we should make a bridge outta him.

Really small rocks.

ntndeacon · 10-03-2007, 03:17 PM

sorry I needed to spout of some Python. It seemed not too inappropriate

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 03:18 PM

Neon, why didn't we go Nightfall on this?

I'll submit a kill order in place of RendeR so we can keep things moving along for everyone else, if that works.

RendeR · 10-03-2007, 03:55 PM

Wow, hoops, I got nothing on you. Talk about slinging some serious bullshit. Whats all this hate for me lately? you've been implicating me left and right in this game. First I'm the duke, NOW I'm the third wolf?? If you really thought I was anything but a vanilla villager you'd have had your toady-wolf take me with him last night when he got Duked.

Just get in the damned machine you lying sack of fur.

I am NOT a wolf, I am a vanilla villager, and Hoopsguy is utterly desperate at this point in trying to cast doubt on someone HE knows is a villager.

IF the real seer is alive, scan me. I'm all for it. IF you want to buy into hoops' BS then stuff me in the machine tomorrow night. Lets not be idiots and give Hoops one more day of mind-screwing with us.

path12 · 10-03-2007, 04:04 PM

I thought you would have been madder than that. Doesn't quite sound like you.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 04:35 PM

RendeR, we both know I was trying to provide cover for you yesterday when I suggested you were the Duke near the end of the day. Neither of us expected the actual Duke (Arlington) to make a move and eliminate Eagles. We gave it the old college try this game and we lost.

I don't want to air every PM that we've had up to this point, but I still maintain that this game is OVER and we might as well speed things along rather than dragging it out to kill one more villager.

The way it looks right now, I'm still helping you by fingering you because no one trusts anything I say. I'm guessing you stick around for another 2-3 days after I'm gone before anyone actually says "gee, maybe Hoops wasn't screwing with us".

Hopefully we'll hug it out between now and the next game. Sorry I dragged you into this mess in the first place ... this has certainly not been my finest wolf game.

Barkeep49 · 10-03-2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

this has certainly not been my finest wolf game.

Quoted so I can bring this up when we see each other on Sunday.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 04:51 PM

BK, you seem to have at least considered the value of learning about your seer/fool by keeping me around for an extra day.

What is the harm in doing so? If you are going to take out me and then RendeR in that order, why not reverse it and find out if you guys actually have a seer?

I figure if you and Path endorsed this idea that there is a good chance the rest of the folks here would fall in line, assuming they check back in before the deadline. And since I have you here now, I figured I would ask you directly because you normally give consideration to my outside-the-box thinking.

Barkeep49 · 10-03-2007, 05:21 PM

Hoops: I didn't think through the whole fool/seer thing until this morning. I do most of my WW thinking in thread as I'm posting. However, I would assume the seer/fool had given it some thought and acted accordingly last night. However, even if they didn't, I find having you around to be a distraction. I don't really, for instance, want to give my thoughts about what to say about Render until you aren't around to muddy the waters.

oliegirl · 10-03-2007, 05:27 PM

God, isn't it 9 pm so we can kill hoops already? He is seriously starting to get on my nerves with his diatribes...his mouth is moving, but all I hear is "blah blah blah blah blah"....

RealDeal · 10-03-2007, 06:35 PM

Hoops is my least favorite wolf ever. So much bullshit in such a short period of time.

Chief Rum · 10-03-2007, 06:51 PM

Good Lord, are you all daft?

Lemme get this straight, you're all sitting around letting hoops lead around on a string? You're actually listening to a word he says? This is mind boggling.

Hoops is doing nothing to help you you haven't done yourself. He has way too devious a track record to take at face value about anything after being outed as a wolf.

Honestly, let's kill him and be done with it. I don't even know why people are reading his posts, much less actually interested in what he's going to say.

Chief Rum · 10-03-2007, 06:51 PM

VOTE HPSGY

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 06:52 PM

I'm not exactly feeling the love here.

Chief Rum · 10-03-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not exactly feeling the love here.

lol...all said in complete respect of your powers of persuasion and deviousness. There is absolutely no reason anyone left alive (outside of remaining wolves) should be listening to a word you say. Heck, I have been skipping your posts entirely (until this one).

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:07 PM

The remaining wolf isn't listening to my posts either - he is clearly more annoyed with me than anyone else at this point and I'm sure I'll have to deal with vendetta votes in upcoming games.

But I don't understand the "don't listen to him at all" thought process. I'm either:
a.) playing it completely straight
b.) lying

If b.) then to what end? It would probably be easier to figure this out by pursuing a line of questioning rather than trying to sift through posts later. I've made it pretty clear that I'm willing to make it an interactive process, rather than just stonewalling.

I would hope that is more fun than just watching the clock wind down, particularly since Neon isn't allowing the Nightfall. But maybe not ...

saldana · 10-03-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not exactly feeling the love here.

you'll be feeling the disintegrator beam in about 2 hours...thats all the love you will be getting from us.

i hope no one is silly enough to actually believe him about render....hoops is way to intense of a player to give up...he will scheme and fight until the last piece of fur has been atomized.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:09 PM

Chief Rum and Antmeister both have been way too quiet - only 10 posts each. If you don't want to believe me on the last remaining wolf, then look at these "under the radar" players.

You'll thank me later.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:11 PM

Saldana, you are missing the beauty of the whole thing. No one is going to believe me anyway - RendeR is going to live for days because of this.

At the end of the game, I'll just laugh and laugh because I tried to give you the game and you guys 2nd-level thought yourselves out of it.

Chief Rum · 10-03-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief Rum and Antmeister both have been way too quiet - only 10 posts each. If you don't want to believe me on the last remaining wolf, then look at these "under the radar" players.

You'll thank me later.

lol...what are you talking about? You suggested there is only one wolf left and his name is Render. You saying that's not true?

Okay, yeah, I read that post.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:14 PM

Chief, I'm in the "final lap" mode now. I'll be constructing cases for everyone.

Every one, except what I've presented for RendeR, is 100% false. But I've got another 105 minutes to kill, so I might as well create more FUD if no one wants to have a more serious conversation.

RendeR · 10-03-2007, 07:14 PM

Safest ploy, get rid of hoops

Worry about me tomorrow. Not that there is anything to worry about. I got nothin...

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:14 PM

Dola - congrats for passing Antmeister in posts. He now clearly looks more suspicious than you.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:21 PM

Let's see - RendeR and Saldana are in the thread now.

RendeR - well, he is a wolf. That is pretty much all the case I need to put out there on him. You can take it or leave it; I've tried to end the game and it is up to you to do something with it.

Saldana - don't let him off the hook for his late vote change on Day 1. The wolves knew exactly what they were doing that night - I needed him to join me in moving votes to make sure that PurdueBrad didn't have to reveal. If Purdue was forced to reveal then he would have drawn the bodyguard to him and I couldn't kill him that night. The switch between guys was just to build the "confused villager" image that he is counting on now.

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:27 PM

Alan T - sitting back and letting others control the conversation is totally against the grain for this post-aholic. Has contributed nothing of substance to the conversation, decidedly anti-village.

st.cronin · 10-03-2007, 07:29 PM

Oh, do me!

hoopsguy · 10-03-2007, 07:35 PM

St. Cronin - don't let the dead villager thing fool you. This was carefully orchestrated from the start by the wolves. Cronin is due to return to the game, reanimated in the chamber, at the end of Day 4. We submitted that order last night in lieu of a kill - I've been lying all day about stopping the kill order. And when he does come back, it will be with fangs, baby!

Hey, if conversion isn't in the rules and we somehow managed to do that then why not the ability to re-animate a dead villager to have him come back as a wolf?

10-03-2007, 12:31 PM	#601
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	Wow! Amazing! Hadn't seen that happen before. Good job AC. So I will continue with the vote from yesterday: VOTE HOOPSGUY __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

10-03-2007, 12:32 PM	#602
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	Ok....I have to remember to ignore all of hoop's posts. Geez. __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

10-03-2007, 12:59 PM	#610
Antmeister Pro Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: At the corner of Beat Street and Electric Avenue	hoopsguy, in my opinion, has to be a wolf or at least a wolfing. Wolfings come up as villagers when they die and I think this may be the reason why he is getting bold, because he knows what the end result will be. Now if he turns up a villager, I believe we got a wolfling. Now if he ends up being a werewolf, I don't know what to think. The reason why I say this is because hoopsguy is pretty much a team person and I can easily see him sacrificing himself for the good of the team. Not sure if this is the situation or not, but if we really got rid of our seer when we are all thinking he is a fool, it would be brilliant to play it that way. Just throwing that out there. __________________ "I'm ready to bury the hatchet, but don't fuck with me" - Schmidty "Box me once, shame on Skydog. Box me twice. Shame on me. Box me 3 times, just fucking ban my ass...." - stevew

10-03-2007, 03:55 PM	#627
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Wow, hoops, I got nothing on you. Talk about slinging some serious bullshit. Whats all this hate for me lately? you've been implicating me left and right in this game. First I'm the duke, NOW I'm the third wolf?? If you really thought I was anything but a vanilla villager you'd have had your toady-wolf take me with him last night when he got Duked. Just get in the damned machine you lying sack of fur. I am NOT a wolf, I am a vanilla villager, and Hoopsguy is utterly desperate at this point in trying to cast doubt on someone HE knows is a villager. IF the real seer is alive, scan me. I'm all for it. IF you want to buy into hoops' BS then stuff me in the machine tomorrow night. Lets not be idiots and give Hoops one more day of mind-screwing with us. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-03-2007, 04:04 PM	#628
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	I thought you would have been madder than that. Doesn't quite sound like you. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

10-03-2007, 12:38 PM	#603
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Hoops now you're just getting greedy. You are the first person to be an openly acknowledged wolf to live more than a day. Two? Two is just greedy. Arlington Colt is our legend from this game. Stop trying to horn in on his fun.

10-03-2007, 12:42 PM	#604
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	BK, it probably is greedy. But if the seer/fool didn't scan me last night then how will you ever validate what role they have? What if I'm lying - don't you want to know if you have a role that can help find the bad guys going forward? If I'm telling the truth (I am) then you kill RendeR today, me tomorrow. It makes no difference in the final outcome. Not in days, not in results. If I'm lying (I'm not) and you kill me first, then the Seer/Fool has no way to validate their scan results the rest of the way - if they are the real seer they can build trust based on returns of villager. But those are worthless if they are the fool. Getting greedy? Every game That is why I didn't mention this last night. But as long as I'm around I'll try to come up with some reason for people to lynch someone besides me. I'm very consistent that way. The fact is that my reason is pretty good in this case. And if the seer did scan me already (regardless of result) then proceed with voting me off the island and have fun the rest of the way. They would at least know if their role is providing meaningful information and can make an intelligent determination on when to share that info with the rest of you.

10-03-2007, 12:50 PM	#606
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Is that really the worst case, Path? I've done pretty much all I can in the last 24 hours to help out the villagers - sabotaged night actions, given you a wolf, and promised to leave people alone again tomorrow night if I'm the last wolf standing. It really doesn't get any better than that for the villagers, does it?

10-03-2007, 12:57 PM	#609
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	path: You should realize that the scenario hoops has setup isn't that simple, since Render will show up clean when we lynch him. Having a reliable seer would be great, as I would be willing to make yet another 1-1 as I have to think that there were 4 starting wolves not 3. Anyhow, I'm still in favor of lynching hoops tonight, and stopping with the games. We have serious work left to do and it'll be impossible to do with him hanging around as a distraction.

10-03-2007, 01:02 PM	#611
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Is there anything in the rules about a conversion? I know everyone suspects that is the case when there isn't a kill but I don't believe the rules allow for it. Heck, if it was an option I would probably have exercised it because it would have given us a chance to continue the game. The way I looked at it was that there are two trusted villager + a bodyguard + a possible seer left out there. Too many targets for RendeR to kill the rest of the way on his own. The game is over, for all intents and purposes. The only detail left is the order that you (the collective village) proceed to end it.

10-03-2007, 01:14 PM	#612
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm really not trying to be a distraction today. I've laid out the scenario that I think is most useful for you guys in terms of risk mitigation. If you take me out today I doubt that RendeR will leave someone alive tonight like I did last night. The PM I got this morning was very frustrated with my thought process - he wanted to play it out and see if we could win, even though I'm sure we are mathematically eliminated.

10-03-2007, 01:30 PM	#613
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	this game is...interesting. It's certainly going to be one for the record books. we definitely haven't heard from everyone yet, we should likely wait until after work-hours to see if our fool/seer did scan hoops last night and what that will tell us about them. hoops' play is...interesting

10-03-2007, 01:30 PM	#614
jeheinz72 Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fresno, CA	Gotta say I'm a little bummed if RendeR is a wolf and was outed. I was onto him on Day One and once we cleared hoops out I was going to push him again. His explanation to me didn't hold water (said he'd be quiet all game then said why he'd be quiet that night)

10-03-2007, 01:37 PM	#617
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	right. Although they do still have the bodyguard to protect them at least for one more night

10-03-2007, 02:47 PM	#618
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	See what happens when I don't post in the thread? We get an hour of nothing. OK, how about planning future moves for Day 4 when I'm gone? Are you going to actually believe what I said about RendeR? Or are you going to move in another direction? A discussion of pros/cons is a lot more interesting than zero posts.

10-03-2007, 02:48 PM	#619
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	...

10-03-2007, 02:56 PM	#620
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Pass, that was one of the more insightful comments this afternoon. Thank you for that. I knew that EagleFan should not have taken you out last night on his way out the door

10-03-2007, 03:05 PM	#621
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	At the very least, I'm glad that all the wolves (wait, I mean just RendeR) took my advice and stayed out of the thread today. No reason for them to get involved here and potentially give away info that could be used in the coming days when we rally for the win.

10-03-2007, 03:11 PM	#622
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	I think we should make a bridge outta him.

10-03-2007, 03:17 PM	#625
ntndeacon Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alabama	sorry I needed to spout of some Python. It seemed not too inappropriate

10-03-2007, 03:18 PM	#626
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Neon, why didn't we go Nightfall on this? I'll submit a kill order in place of RendeR so we can keep things moving along for everyone else, if that works.

10-03-2007, 04:35 PM	#629
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	RendeR, we both know I was trying to provide cover for you yesterday when I suggested you were the Duke near the end of the day. Neither of us expected the actual Duke (Arlington) to make a move and eliminate Eagles. We gave it the old college try this game and we lost. I don't want to air every PM that we've had up to this point, but I still maintain that this game is OVER and we might as well speed things along rather than dragging it out to kill one more villager. The way it looks right now, I'm still helping you by fingering you because no one trusts anything I say. I'm guessing you stick around for another 2-3 days after I'm gone before anyone actually says "gee, maybe Hoops wasn't screwing with us". Hopefully we'll hug it out between now and the next game. Sorry I dragged you into this mess in the first place ... this has certainly not been my finest wolf game.

10-03-2007, 04:51 PM	#631
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	BK, you seem to have at least considered the value of learning about your seer/fool by keeping me around for an extra day. What is the harm in doing so? If you are going to take out me and then RendeR in that order, why not reverse it and find out if you guys actually have a seer? I figure if you and Path endorsed this idea that there is a good chance the rest of the folks here would fall in line, assuming they check back in before the deadline. And since I have you here now, I figured I would ask you directly because you normally give consideration to my outside-the-box thinking.

10-03-2007, 05:21 PM	#632
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Hoops: I didn't think through the whole fool/seer thing until this morning. I do most of my WW thinking in thread as I'm posting. However, I would assume the seer/fool had given it some thought and acted accordingly last night. However, even if they didn't, I find having you around to be a distraction. I don't really, for instance, want to give my thoughts about what to say about Render until you aren't around to muddy the waters.

10-03-2007, 06:35 PM	#634
RealDeal High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: here	Hoops is my least favorite wolf ever. So much bullshit in such a short period of time.

10-03-2007, 06:51 PM	#635
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Good Lord, are you all daft? Lemme get this straight, you're all sitting around letting hoops lead around on a string? You're actually listening to a word he says? This is mind boggling. Hoops is doing nothing to help you you haven't done yourself. He has way too devious a track record to take at face value about anything after being outed as a wolf. Honestly, let's kill him and be done with it. I don't even know why people are reading his posts, much less actually interested in what he's going to say.

10-03-2007, 06:51 PM	#636
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	VOTE HPSGY

10-03-2007, 06:52 PM	#637
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm not exactly feeling the love here.

10-03-2007, 07:07 PM	#639
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	The remaining wolf isn't listening to my posts either - he is clearly more annoyed with me than anyone else at this point and I'm sure I'll have to deal with vendetta votes in upcoming games. But I don't understand the "don't listen to him at all" thought process. I'm either: a.) playing it completely straight b.) lying If b.) then to what end? It would probably be easier to figure this out by pursuing a line of questioning rather than trying to sift through posts later. I've made it pretty clear that I'm willing to make it an interactive process, rather than just stonewalling. I would hope that is more fun than just watching the clock wind down, particularly since Neon isn't allowing the Nightfall. But maybe not ...

10-03-2007, 07:09 PM	#641
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Chief Rum and Antmeister both have been way too quiet - only 10 posts each. If you don't want to believe me on the last remaining wolf, then look at these "under the radar" players. You'll thank me later.

10-03-2007, 07:11 PM	#642
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Saldana, you are missing the beauty of the whole thing. No one is going to believe me anyway - RendeR is going to live for days because of this. At the end of the game, I'll just laugh and laugh because I tried to give you the game and you guys 2nd-level thought yourselves out of it.

10-03-2007, 07:14 PM	#644
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Chief, I'm in the "final lap" mode now. I'll be constructing cases for everyone. Every one, except what I've presented for RendeR, is 100% false. But I've got another 105 minutes to kill, so I might as well create more FUD if no one wants to have a more serious conversation.

10-03-2007, 07:14 PM	#645
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Safest ploy, get rid of hoops Worry about me tomorrow. Not that there is anything to worry about. I got nothin... __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

10-03-2007, 07:14 PM	#646
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Dola - congrats for passing Antmeister in posts. He now clearly looks more suspicious than you.

10-03-2007, 07:21 PM	#647
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Let's see - RendeR and Saldana are in the thread now. RendeR - well, he is a wolf. That is pretty much all the case I need to put out there on him. You can take it or leave it; I've tried to end the game and it is up to you to do something with it. Saldana - don't let him off the hook for his late vote change on Day 1. The wolves knew exactly what they were doing that night - I needed him to join me in moving votes to make sure that PurdueBrad didn't have to reveal. If Purdue was forced to reveal then he would have drawn the bodyguard to him and I couldn't kill him that night. The switch between guys was just to build the "confused villager" image that he is counting on now.