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Old 01-29-2020, 10:23 AM   #51
larrymcg421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotMan View Post
So, just curious, addressing the elephant in the room, is this like Jackson, where after death, the allegations and details of transgressions go away? Or is it where the measure of the person's accomplishments and the good that they put into the world are able to overcome it?

Well, the discussion of Jackson's allegations had died down quite a bit up to his death. However, they recently resurfaced in the HBO doc and he is now more controversial than ever.
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:06 AM   #52
spleen1015
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There is no comparison in my mind. I feel like Jackson did what is alleged because there's a lot of smoke.

With Kobe, nothing was ever proven, the victim couldn't tell the same story twice.

The 2 situations are nothing alike other than they both died tragically.
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:59 AM   #53
BYU 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spleen1015 View Post
There is no comparison in my mind. I feel like Jackson did what is alleged because there's a lot of smoke.

With Kobe, nothing was ever proven, the victim couldn't tell the same story twice.

The 2 situations are nothing alike other than they both died tragically.

Agree and Kobe made himself a better man, husband and father coming out of that incident, and continued to strive for that as the years went on. The allegations themselves just didn't hold water in the case of Kobe as more came out. Not sure you can say that about Jackson.
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:52 PM   #54
thesloppy
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I was always hearing rumors that the dude constantly cheated on his wife (tho certainly not from any kind of remarkable source). Maybe that's just due to my bias.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:52 PM   #55
miami_fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PilotMan View Post
So, just curious, addressing the elephant in the room, is this like Jackson, where after death, the allegations and details of transgressions go away? Or is it where the measure of the person's accomplishments and the good that they put into the world are able to overcome it?

I really have no feelings either way. I was never a big Kobe fan, but I could certainly appreciate his accomplishments on the court and the skill that he possessed as a generational player.

I was not a big Kobe fan either. Magic will always be my favorite Laker ever but that is a byproduct of my age and when my love for basketball began. For me, his rape trial is not the elephant in the room. I think the story of his rape trial and the charges being dropped are what they are. It happened and the details are there for all to see. I believe he knew he did something wrong but I also accept that he was not convicted of the charge. Why? Read Kobe's apology. The emphasis is mine

Quote:
"First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman
involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this
year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only
imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to
her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and
supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.

"I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives
of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has
agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil
case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was
consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this
incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery,
listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now
understand how she feels that she did not consent to this
encounter.


"I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of
this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil
case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be
decided by and between the parties directly involved in the
incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on
the citizens of the state of Colorado."

It is not a perfect apology but it is enough for me to believe that he knew that he had done wrong. That being said, I am also not interested re-litigating the case every time his name is brought up either. If I believe someone is bringing up the case in an effort to re-litigate it, I would probably push back against it as well. I think there was some of that in the immediate aftermath of his death.

I do think he had done things to prove that he was a different person than he was in 2003. Is it enough for everyone else? I don't know but it is enough for me. Can a documentary come out next year that changes my opinion of him? Absolutely if the evidence is credible to me. But as of today, I think his work after his trial is the difference between how I feel about Kobe and Michael Jackson. Kobe has come closer to admitting his wrong and learning from it IMO. For me, when I think of Kobe Bryant, that case is not the first paragraph of his story if I am documenting it. For Michael Jackson, his allegations are.

P.S. I think I went back fifteen times to change wording from present tense to past tense. I guess it still has not sunk in yet.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:02 PM   #56
Chief Rum
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
I don't really have an opinion on it, but I hate that people get all butthurt when it gets brought up. It is part of his story and shouldn't be brushed away just because he died a tragic death.

While I think it's stupid for people to get butt hurt on this, I differ from your opinion otherwise. For eternity, the rape allegations will always be there. They were in his life and they will soon be again as we get further from the suddenness of his death.

Fact is, millions are grieving his loss right now. They won't be so much in a few days, but right now they're feeling it. So is your urge to be 100% correct for the record on Kobe right now worth more than the pain you cause to these people by insisting on pointing out his flaws in this moment? That's pretty selfish and not empathetic.

Kobe's rape allegations will be under his name for all time. They aren't going anywhere. There's simply no reason to bring it up now except to cause pain to others when they're feeling their lowest.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:18 PM   #57
Kodos
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I don't think it was said in an effort to cause pain to people who are feeling his loss. I think it is just acknowledging that there was at least one thing in his past that was not ideal and that shouldn't be whitewashed now just because he is dead. From what I've read, it seems like Kobe did try to make amends more than most celebrities in similar situations, and that is to his credit.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:20 PM   #58
spleen1015
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It's just the way people are. Some don't care that he died but they care that he allegedly raped someone. So they are going to grind their axe when they can.

Everyone has a right to feel however they feel just like we can feel they're jackasses for bringing it up at a time like this.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:58 PM   #59
Carman Bulldog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BYU 14 View Post
Agree and Kobe made himself a better man, husband and father coming out of that incident, and continued to strive for that as the years went on. The allegations themselves just didn't hold water in the case of Kobe as more came out. Not sure you can say that about Jackson.

From everything I've read, I've actually formed the opposite opinion's. I'm not convinced on Michael Jackson but I'm fairly sure that Kobe was guilty. For what it's worth, I also think Mike Tyson was wrongly convicted for his rape charge from 1992 (that's not to say that he didn't get away with some other offences such as multiple counts of domestic violence).

And I don't think the fact that a true verdict was never reached should be the determinant factor. I mean, by that logic, does that mean OJ didn't kill his wife? He's another one that I think is guilty.
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:25 PM   #60
CrimsonFox
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the more i read the more heartbroken i become for all those poor broken families.

Mrs Kobe and a 17 yr old, 3 yr old and 7 month old surviving without Kobe and their 13 year old daughter

A husband and 3 children surviving without their wife

Another husband and 2 sons losing their wife and daughter

And finally the most heartbreaking...

A teenage girl surviving, losing both her parents and only sister. She's got no one now except a 29 year old half brother that lives way far away from her.


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Old 01-30-2020, 07:04 AM   #61
Butter
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Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog View Post
From everything I've read, I've actually formed the opposite opinion's. I'm not convinced on Michael Jackson but I'm fairly sure that Kobe was guilty.

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