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View Poll Results: If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next
Normal transition of power. He meets with Biden, stays until 1/20, comes to inauguration, etc. 5 5.56%
He doesn't fight the result, but resigns prior to the inauguration. 2 2.22%
He fights the result but gives up shortly before the inauguration (let's define "shortly" as "some time after the EC meets on 12/14") 30 33.33%
He fights the result all the way to January 20th. Has to be physically removed. 12 13.33%
He fights the result for a short time, but gives up and resigns before the inauguration 6 6.67%
He fights the result for a short time, but gives up an then we have a normal transition as per option 1. 30 33.33%
Other. (You know you gotta specify this one.) 5 5.56%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-12-2022, 05:19 PM   #5751
Lathum
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So if he is found guilty of it all, life in prison, would that be grounds for impeaching the justices he put on the court?
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Old 08-12-2022, 05:20 PM   #5752
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Like Grant said, it will drive turn out in the mid terms. As for Trump himself this will just strengthen the perception that the dems are just out to get him and he is being persecuted. His base will always be loyal, but that isnt the 74 million votes he got. People are looking for other reasons to vote republican and forgive themselves because that is better than voting dem. This provides them a narrative.

These people think they are being persecuted when Disney casts a black lead for a movie. They're perpetual victims.

What's your solution? Designate some people are above the law so as to not offend people who get offended over everything?
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Old 08-12-2022, 05:30 PM   #5753
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Long game is they're trying to goad him into announcing his candidacy for 2024 because they can easily drag this out for two more years, preventing any other Republican from building a proper campaign.

(bonus, if he announces before November, that's worth five points in the upcoming mid-terms - every Democrat gets to run against Trump rather than the designated opponent).

His negatives are so high that he can't win, plus they can find a judge to issue an arrest warrant at any time or find one who says he's ineligible to run. But just about any other Republican probably does win given the usual campaign process. In the end, economics usually carries the vote and the economy isn't doing well.

We're down to scorched earth tactics on both political sides for even the most petty battles. We're not getting civil war. No one aside from a few fringe idiots on either side is even willing to play - and most of them are already elected to office or working for a television "news" network.

When the Ohio nut decided to go suicide-by-cop the other day, the only sympathy he got was from people who are so far out there they couldn't take over a single city block in Seattle or anywhere else, let alone mount a revolution. The average person is far too comfortable to risk anything of value.

All politicians do these days is try and convince us of their importance so they don't have to take on the real issues out there, which require nuance and, well, serving the people.

Trump's a clown. He's always been a clown and he always will be a clown. The problem we have right now is that we don't see that there are close to 535 other clowns in Congress alone. The primary process pretty much guarantees it.

I can't say I agree with the entire premise of this argument at all. This would assume that there's a master plan, being controlled by a leadership group, capable of pulling this off, without any leaks, or anyone else finding out, or blabbing to a journalist. It's rather an argument convenience to explain something that feels better, rather than just the standard timing of all this playing out. I don't think the Dems have been sitting around planning to wait until within 100 days of the midterms or some magical time when trump might decide to jump in. It seems rather fanciful thinking.
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Old 08-12-2022, 05:31 PM   #5754
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These people think they are being persecuted when Disney casts a black lead for a movie. They're perpetual victims.

Don't forget adding plant-based breakfast items to menus!
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Old 08-12-2022, 05:41 PM   #5755
sterlingice
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Like Grant said, it will drive turn out in the mid terms. As for Trump himself this will just strengthen the perception that the dems are just out to get him and he is being persecuted. His base will always be loyal, but that isnt the 74 million votes he got. People are looking for other reasons to vote republican and forgive themselves because that is better than voting dem. This provides them a narrative.

If it wasn't this, wouldn't it have been inflation? Or school choice or whatever? Like the action was always going to be the same, the excuse was just going to be different?

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Old 08-12-2022, 05:43 PM   #5756
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Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
Like Grant said, it will drive turn out in the mid terms. As for Trump himself this will just strengthen the perception that the dems are just out to get him and he is being persecuted. His base will always be loyal, but that isnt the 74 million votes he got. People are looking for other reasons to vote republican and forgive themselves because that is better than voting dem. This provides them a narrative.

If trump shot someone on 5th ave in broad daylight, and was arrested, the narrative would be that the person deserved it and any sort of retribution is just a witch hunt to bring him down. That trump 'knew what he was doing, and it was to save the country' and quite literally, that's all they need right now to believe in that.
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Old 08-12-2022, 05:43 PM   #5757
sterlingice
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Just a reminder on the sort of shit we're missing out on.

July 31, 2020 – A day after Trump aired the possibility of delaying the election, White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany rebuked the Hong Kong government for postponing its own elections. “This action undermines the democratic processes and freedoms that have underpinned Hong Kong’s prosperity,” she said.

July 31, 2017 – Donald Trump dictated a public statement on behalf of his son, Donald Trump Jr., regarding a meeting between Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer. President Trump’s dictation stated the meeting "primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children.” A subsequent release of Trump Jr.’s email thread on the topic indicated that the topic of the meeting was regarding Clinton and Russian support for Trump’s campaign.

July 31, 2017 – New White House Chief of Staff John Kelly fired Anthony Scaramucci ten days into Scaramucci’s tenure as communications director.

You know what? I'm going to go ahead and blame this whole week on PM

This post was like the point in the movie where someone utters a line that tempts fate like "nothing can ruin a day like this" right before it rains or aliens attack

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Old 08-12-2022, 05:47 PM   #5758
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You know what? I'm going to go ahead and blame this whole week on PM

This post was like the point in the movie where someone utters a line that tempts fate like "nothing can ruin a day like this" right before it rains or aliens attack

SI


August 12, 2017 – During the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, neo-Nazis and former Ku Klux Klan members carried tiki torches and shouted slogans including “The Jews Will Not Replace Us.” A white nationalist named James Alex Fields Jr. drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing Heather Heyer and injuring 19 others in the process. After the attack and Heyer’s death, Trump he refused to explicitly rebuke the white nationalists. The president placed partial blame for the attack on the counter-protesters, condemning, “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.”

August 12, 2019 – The Trump administration significantly weakened the Endangered Species Act, signed in 1973 by Republican Richard Nixon. The adjustment allows economic assessment to factor into the protection of a species.
It also removed the blanket rule that requires the same treatment for threatened species as endangered species.

August 12, 2019 – A federal whistleblower issued a complaint to Senator Richard Burr and Representative Adam Schiff that “the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election.” The bombshell report referred to a July 25 phone call between Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and efforts to restrict access to call records.

August 12, 2020 – Trump repeatedly called Kamala Harris, Biden’s choice of running mate, “nasty.” “She was nasty to a level that was just a horrible thing,” the president said, referring to her questioning of Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh during his Senate confirmation hearing. Trump added that Harris “was the meanest, most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the U.S. Senate.”

August 12, 2020 – Trump congratulated Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Republican congressional candidate from Georgia who voiced her support of the far-right conspiracy theory QAnon. “Marjorie is
strong on everything and never gives up — a real WINNER!” Trump wrote on Twitter. The FBI identified QAnon as a potential domestic terror threat in 2019.
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Old 08-12-2022, 06:02 PM   #5759
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Originally Posted by RainMaker View Post
These people think they are being persecuted when Disney casts a black lead for a movie. They're perpetual victims.

What's your solution? Designate some people are above the law so as to not offend people who get offended over everything?

Where did I say they shouldn't have done it? Read the damn thread, I have been slamming Garland for his inaction. I hope Trump rots in a cell the rest of his miserable life, along with the entire family. What I want and what I think are two very different things. My cynical opinion is this makes him stronger. I really hope I am wrong.
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Old 08-12-2022, 06:18 PM   #5760
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And I'm with Lathum. I agree it had to be done. And if anything, the timing proves it wasn't just a political move, because it was a horrible time politically for this to happen.

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Old 08-12-2022, 06:59 PM   #5761
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Seeing they are going to dust all the documents for prints...
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:36 PM   #5762
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If anyone touched those code-word classified docs without that level of clearance, they are in for some trouble.

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Old 08-12-2022, 08:11 PM   #5763
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Cool. Like I said. I have a friend who is now NSA. He was a Navy CPO when that existed, and moved over to Computer Warfare as cryptic signaling changed. His first duty station was Naval Security Station D.C. He probably has knowledge, but he is a bit cagy in sharing too much because of the level of security clearance he has is very restrictive.

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Old 08-12-2022, 08:27 PM   #5764
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I'm starting to think that the classified info was about Israeli nukes and he was sharing/selling/giving that info to the Saudis. I have absolutely zero things to back that statement up, but just a strong gut feel
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:40 PM   #5765
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Sounds like their latest strategy is to claim he had a standing order to declassify any docs he took to a residence and that includes Mar A Lago.

we of course know that is BS and not how it works. One of the biggest problems through out his time is Trump thinks he should be able to do what he wants, or change any process he wants. Obviously he can't, but he frames these things with the assistance of FOX News that he can and his minions go along with it (see Pence certifying the election)
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:42 PM   #5766
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The arguement I see on that is "so he didn't stamp and date it. Are you really going to send a former President to prison for a clerical error?

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Old 08-12-2022, 09:05 PM   #5767
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I'm starting to think that the classified info was about Israeli nukes and he was sharing/selling/giving that info to the Saudis. I have absolutely zero things to back that statement up, but just a strong gut feel

There does have to be some reason why the Saudis gave Jared 2 billion.
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:09 PM   #5768
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Sounds like their latest strategy is to claim he had a standing order to declassify any docs he took to a residence and that includes Mar A Lago.

we of course know that is BS and not how it works. One of the biggest problems through out his time is Trump thinks he should be able to do what he wants, or change any process he wants. Obviously he can't, but he frames these things with the assistance of FOX News that he can and his minions go along with it (see Pence certifying the election)

Nobody sees that if Trump can just think things are de-classified, then Biden can just think-classify them again.

ANd even if they weren't classified, they still belong to the government and Trump can't just take them.
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:11 PM   #5769
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Sounds like their latest strategy is to claim he had a standing order to declassify any docs he took to a residence and that includes Mar A Lago.

we of course know that is BS and not how it works. One of the biggest problems through out his time is Trump thinks he should be able to do what he wants, or change any process he wants. Obviously he can't, but he frames these things with the assistance of FOX News that he can and his minions go along with it (see Pence certifying the election)


They've already moved the goalposts a dozen times and continue to follow the same playbook.

"The Fbi didn't find anything"

"OK the fbi took some napkins and stuff"

"hey what about Obama and Hillary?"

"if the fbi found anything it was probably planted"

"OK they found documents but Trump declassified them"

"OK so maybe they weren't officially declassified but it's not a big deal. Just a clerical error"

Next is Trump was only trying to sell national secrets because he has to pay for attorneys due to the constant harassment he faces from Dems.
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:12 PM   #5770
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And, of course, Brietbart released the names of the FBI agents involved despite the official court released ones having them redacted, which means Brietbart got their copy from... who else?

Just a moment...

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Old 08-12-2022, 09:59 PM   #5771
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That is exactly why they were given to Brietbart. They are trying to make it dangerous for investigators to do thier job. It is just like Lindsey Graham calling for them to release the affidavit. He knows they can't do that, because that will likely burn the informant that helped with getting the warrant. He is basically interfering with a federal investigation.

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Old 08-12-2022, 10:04 PM   #5772
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Let's go army of the south, rise up again and show these commie bastards who is boss. It's time to make your move and show this country that you really, really, double secret dare you, mean it this time.
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Old 08-12-2022, 10:36 PM   #5773
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More from the law and order party. This with Boebert's pedophile husband and police looking the other way.

Hear the audio from two 911 calls over confrontation with Lauren Boebert’s husband
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:55 AM   #5774
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More from the law and order party. This with Boebert's pedophile husband and police looking the other way.

Hear the audio from two 911 calls over confrontation with Lauren Boebert’s husband

Such trailer trash. They got to vote her out but having been out to that area of Colorado a couple of timesI doubt that will happen.
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:04 AM   #5775
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Exactly what I would expect from father and son in that family. Just trash that epitomizes the whole MAGA cult.
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:43 AM   #5776
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This is a feature, not a bug with these people. The poor boy was just riding his 4 wheeler and the whiny neighbor was giving him a hard time for being a kid.
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Old 08-13-2022, 12:27 PM   #5777
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This is good.

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Old 08-13-2022, 01:24 PM   #5778
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Old 08-14-2022, 10:51 AM   #5779
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Things are heating up. Right now, a group of MAGA domestic terrorists has assembled outside the Phoenix FBI office.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/tr...-a-lago-search
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Old 08-14-2022, 12:08 PM   #5780
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Let's say it again... terrorists. Say it all. Day. Long.
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:05 PM   #5781
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Earlier today someone also drove into Barriers at the Capitol and then killed himself.

Meanwhile, Mr "what can i do to help":



And his prospectice head of the CIA who also was assigned by him to be his representative to the national archives:



Fun fact: This is what said person said in June:

and I’m gonna march down there and identify every single document they’ve blocked from being declassified

Seems relevant.
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:43 PM   #5782
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Hmmmmmm....
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:51 PM   #5783
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Short explainer on the whole classified/declassified stuff from the NYT:

Should be free to read if i did it right
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:52 PM   #5784
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Short explainer on the whole classified/declassified stuff from the NYT:

Should be free to read if i did it right


The most interesting thing there is the fact that it really doesn't matter if the documents are classified or not. They just have to prove they are defense related information that can be harmful to the United States. They actually didn't use anything related to the classification system to get the warrant.
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:59 PM   #5785
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The most interesting thing there is the fact that it really doesn't matter if the documents are classified or not. They just have to prove they are defense related information that can be harmful to the United States. They actually didn't use anything related to the classification system to get the warrant.

Correct, which is why Rand Paul wants the espionage act abolished. They're coming to accept the fact that this is actually sticking and Trump is in real danger for the first time. So of course they're trying to change the rules.
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Old 08-14-2022, 06:48 PM   #5786
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If I saw the tweet correctly, Reality Winner did 5 years for having a single document under one of the same statutes they cited in the warrant.
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Old 08-14-2022, 07:01 PM   #5787
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A couple of thoughts:

(1) Ben really needed to add a lot more nuanced options in the poll here :-)

(2) I've said for a while that if Trump goes down, it will be slowly and then all at once. That basically if it came, there would be a tipping point over the course of a few days where all of his enablers would realize that the ship was sinking, and they'd abandon him en mass.

I no longer think that this is the case. Enough GOP leaders have reacted to this by continuing to double down with Trump that I now think that he will never be abandoned by enough high level supporters for it to matter.

If he does go down, it will be messy as hell, and it will go on long after he's gone.
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Old 08-14-2022, 07:08 PM   #5788
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“stolen election” must poll exceptionally well for them to keep going back to that well
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Old 08-14-2022, 08:12 PM   #5789
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There are people that will always believe the election was stolen. Some try to push the garbage "proof", but most I know just says it feels like it was. If it is just based on a feeling, how do you argue?

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Old 08-14-2022, 09:00 PM   #5790
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That's just intellectually lazy. But you can't tell them that without shutting down any kind of discussion. It also doesn't work when you juxtapose them feeling things with them calling out others for being in their feelings. It's a position that refuses to lend itself to discussion or criticism. But I don't know any other way than to call it what it is.

For instance, how do you talk to someone who tells you with a straight face that Trump is the most honest person they've ever come across? These aren't the grifters, the people with an agenda, they're just regular people who for whatever reason have dug a trench so deep they can't see daylight anymore.
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:08 PM   #5791
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There are people that will always believe the election was stolen. Some try to push the garbage "proof", but most I know just says it feels like it was. If it is just based on a feeling, how do you argue?

"We have lots of theories, we just don't have the evidence." - Rudy Giuliani
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Old 08-15-2022, 07:51 AM   #5792
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From this Sunday's CBS Sunday morning. In part of it, Ted Koppel asks a trolley full of older, white, Southerners what they think about the election and the media.

Fans return to Mayberry, a town that never was - CBS News

I wonder to what extent a lot of these people just can't deal with things. They visit a representation of a town from a 60s tv show to escape to a place and time that may not have ever really existed. Then later on the trolley, you hear their take on news -- where they escape from outlets that tell them things they don't want to deal with to "safer" spots that don't.

And no, no proof will change that. The only thing that will budge them, eventually, is death.
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Old 08-15-2022, 08:22 AM   #5793
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A jillion psych studies have shown that people will simply refuse to believe that they were duped. You will never ever get people to admit "Yeah, I supported Trump, and that was a huge mistake, and I'm sorry."

The best approach, IMO, to try and reduce his support is to give those supporters another lie to believe in. Convince them that they never supported Trump in the first place.

"Of course you were anti-Hillary. And anti-Biden. But you were never really pro-Trump. You were then--and always have been--a true conservative. So you've always been more of a [DeSantis, Pence, whoever] person. The Democrats want to make it out like you were some Trump worshiping rube. But that's just not true. That's another Democrat lie!"

Honestly, if I were trying to reduce his support, that's the message I'd be sending out. I'd just flat out lie and say that he never really had lots of supporters and it is just another Democrat lie that he ever did.
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Old 08-15-2022, 08:27 AM   #5794
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Sounds like what DeSantis is trying to do with FL education. "White people were never really racist."
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Old 08-15-2022, 09:58 AM   #5795
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So if the documents found in Trump's pad were indeed declassified, can I file a FOIA request to view the documents?

I want to know what dirt we have on Macron.
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Old 08-15-2022, 10:29 AM   #5796
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So if the documents found in Trump's pad were indeed declassified, can I file a FOIA request to view the documents?
.

“I didn’t take the documents, but if I did take the documents they weren’t classified, and if they were classified, they were planted, and if they weren’t, I declassified them, and if I didn’t then it’s a hoax, and if it isn’t, then everyone brings home their work from time to time.”
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Old 08-15-2022, 11:57 AM   #5797
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That's just intellectually lazy. But you can't tell them that without shutting down any kind of discussion. It also doesn't work when you juxtapose them feeling things with them calling out others for being in their feelings. It's a position that refuses to lend itself to discussion or criticism. But I don't know any other way than to call it what it is.

For instance, how do you talk to someone who tells you with a straight face that Trump is the most honest person they've ever come across? These aren't the grifters, the people with an agenda, they're just regular people who for whatever reason have dug a trench so deep they can't see daylight anymore.

The only thing that ever mattered to many of them is making libs angry.

Arguing in bad faith is the whole point, because they can just change the goal posts at any point and it just makes their opponents angrier and angrier.

Or if you prefer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sartre on Nazis
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
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Old 08-15-2022, 11:58 AM   #5798
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Or, more simply, it is impossible to reason with the unreasonable.
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Old 08-15-2022, 12:18 PM   #5799
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I thought for sure I had finally figured out the line between factual tweets and Onion-esque tweets when I saw someone tweet that Kari Lake boasted about Trump and DeSantis's BDE. And then I saw that it was true.
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Old 08-15-2022, 01:26 PM   #5800
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This is why it is so important to persecute and silence Nazis. Or:

Bartender Savagely Kicks A Polite Nazi Customer Out Of His Bar | Bored Panda
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