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Old 01-13-2020, 11:30 AM   #1201
BYU 14
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
And Booker just dropped out of the race. It's sad that he didn't get more traction.

Agree, he was my favorite, just didn't seem to appeal to any one demographic enough to get traction. If Biden wins I would like to see him offer Booker the VP slot.
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Old 01-13-2020, 11:40 AM   #1202
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Agree, he was my favorite, just didn't seem to appeal to any one demographic enough to get traction. If Biden wins I would like to see him offer Booker the VP slot.

Biden doesn't need to.

What doomed both Harris and Booker is that they imagined they'd have a built in African-American base, but Biden just took all that air out of the room.

If someone like Warren or Buttigieg wins the nomination, they'll have to reach out more to African-American voters and thus may select Booker as VP (though that failing is probably going to prevent them from getting the nom).

Biden, OTOH, doesn't really have to worry about that.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:13 PM   #1203
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I think that the polling of black voters showing that among older voters Biden is heavily favored and among younger that Sanders is, means that one of them will really need to ultimately win the nomination to have the best chance of uniting the electorate. I really can't wrap my head around this at all. I had really hoped that Booker would have done better too.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:14 PM   #1204
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I think that the polling of black voters showing that among older voters Biden is heavily favored and among younger that Sanders is, means that one of them will really need to ultimately win the nomination to have the best chance of uniting the electorate. I really can't wrap my head around this at all. I had really hoped that Booker would have done better too.

But even then, a recently Washington Post poll showed that 48% of black voters were backing Biden and Sanders, who was in second place, had like 20%. Biden has a massive lead - and it could be that older black voters aren't even willing to consider Sanders, whereas younger black voters may be.
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Old 01-13-2020, 12:21 PM   #1205
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Sanders comes across as a very angry old white guy. Biden comes off as an affable guy.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:25 PM   #1206
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Sanders comes across as a very angry old white guy. Biden comes off as an affable guy.

Yes, that's how I see it also.

Although none are perfect or near-perfect for me, I think the top 3 in my order of preference is Biden-Warren-Sanders.

If Bloomberg becomes a real contender, I would pick put him 1 or 2.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:27 PM   #1207
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But even then, a recently Washington Post poll showed that 48% of black voters were backing Biden and Sanders, who was in second place, had like 20%. Biden has a massive lead - and it could be that older black voters aren't even willing to consider Sanders, whereas younger black voters may be.

I think part of it is because moderates, who tend to be the older portion of the dem base, see Biden as the best chance at beating Trump and just aren't willing to move off of him. In a normal election cycle Biden's poor debate performances and gaffes probably cost him but, despite the deep pool of candidates, a sizable number of voters have their minds made up.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:51 PM   #1208
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I think part of it is because moderates, who tend to be the older portion of the dem base, see Biden as the best chance at beating Trump and just aren't willing to move off of him. In a normal election cycle Biden's poor debate performances and gaffes probably cost him but, despite the deep pool of candidates, a sizable number of voters have their minds made up.

I think that a feeling of general affability can overshadow debate gaffes. Some candidates just have a bit of Teflon on them. Look at George W. Bush for instance. Biden is the most affable person of the bunch - he passes the have a beer with test with flying colors.
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:35 PM   #1209
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I don't buy Sanders saying a woman can't win. Seems out of character for him.

I can believe he said "you, Warren can't win" and maybe she misinterpreted it.

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Old 01-13-2020, 03:26 PM   #1210
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And Booker just dropped out of the race. It's sad that he didn't get more traction.

That's a shame. I like Booker. I don't know that he was my top candidate but he was in the conversation.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:40 PM   #1211
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It strikes me that Harris and Booker can be have some big time sway if they wanted. Granted both may be keeping quiet in hopes of getting in anyone's administration (California and NJ have Democratic Governors and usually Democratic voters - so losing them as Senators from those states wouldn't be as difficult as say Sherrod Brown). Warren and Buttigieg, who are both struggling with black voters would love to have either of them endorse them. Biden and Sanders are also fighting over the black vote as well - if Biden can get Harris to turn and endorse him, it's lights out, IMO.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:57 AM   #1212
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Tonight's debate should be interesting with this he said/she said from Sanders and Warren. Either one of them is lying, or there was a big miss-understanding. I imagine that along with the negative talking points the Sanders campaign were using is going to be a big part of the discussion. Will there be real fireworks? And if there is, can Biden stay above the fray and seem Presidential while is two main rivals duke it out?

Also, is there anyone left in the field that could get a bounce before caucus day? Sanders is riding a waive now, but could some else come from that lower 30% and make a jump? Or does Warren or Mayor Pete have another rebound in them?
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:29 PM   #1213
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I can buy it being a misunderstanding, or Sanders saying something that is probably true (a woman will have a much harder time winning against Trump who loves to weaponize misogyny), but you shouldn't say to a woman running for President.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:14 PM   #1214
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I took one of those "who do you agree with more" quizzes, and apparently I agree most with Yang.

Weird.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:17 PM   #1215
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I took one of those "who do you agree with more" quizzes, and apparently I agree most with Yang.

Weird.

The WaPo one? I got Warren and Yang tied on that one.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:22 PM   #1216
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The WaPo one? I got Warren and Yang tied on that one.

Yup.

I've been pretty tuned out, so I didn't realize that Yang had so many positions outside of UBI.
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Old 01-14-2020, 04:24 PM   #1217
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Yup.

I've been pretty tuned out, so I didn't realize that Yang had so many positions outside of UBI.

His website has had a lot of position essays for a long time. It's one of the things I've liked about him, even if I don't always agree with some of his solutions (like "Freedom Dollars")
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Old 01-14-2020, 05:19 PM   #1218
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Yang picked up Dave Chappelle's endorsement today. Why even bother with the vote now? Yang has it wrapped up.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:40 PM   #1219
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Yang picked up Dave Chappelle's endorsement today. Why even bother with the vote now? Yang has it wrapped up.

You'd think that, but, as widely reported by actual news sources, Danny DeVito endorsed Bernie Sanders yesterday.

Personally I'm going to hang tight and see what Billy Crystal has to say.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:01 PM   #1220
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You'd think that, but, as widely reported by actual news sources, Danny DeVito endorsed Bernie Sanders yesterday.

Personally I'm going to hang tight and see what Billy Crystal has to say.


Why? Everyone knows that all real men only pay attention to who De Niro picks.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:15 PM   #1221
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Bernie's hand movement is irritating as heck especially the finger wagging. Others have hand movements but Bernie's is like in your face.

And Klobuchar is consistently going over (and over after being warned).

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Old 01-14-2020, 11:36 PM   #1222
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I think everyone just kind of held serve here, which is not great for Warren or Buttigieg. I think Klobuchar drops out before Super Tuesday (maybe even as early as after Iowa) and soon thereafter endorses Biden.

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Old 01-15-2020, 06:53 AM   #1223
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#neverWarren #PrimaryWarren #lyingLiz are all trending right now. All that does to me is confirm "Bernie Bros" are the MAGA gang of the left.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:31 AM   #1224
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Yikes the end of that debate with Warren refusing Sanders handshake well that won’t help her. But Sanders has been hurt by the accusation whether true or not.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:17 AM   #1225
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Neither one can win without the supporters of the other. So, good night for Biden, I'd say.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:43 AM   #1226
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#neverWarren #PrimaryWarren #lyingLiz are all trending right now. All that does to me is confirm "Bernie Bros" are the MAGA gang of the left.

Id agree with that.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:45 AM   #1227
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Neither one can win without the supporters of the other. So, good night for Biden, I'd say.
Or Trump, if Warren or Bernie get the nomination.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:56 AM   #1228
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So Biden reveals a bit of the stories of his tragedies bit by bit over debates, but I'm kind of struck by all the stuff he's had to deal with in his life. Grew up a huge stutterer which he had to master. Ends up being elected as a Senator (6th youngest US Senator in history). But right as he's taken office his wife and one year daughter die in a car crash (which also severely injures his two young sons). And then, while he's Vice President, his (probably favorite) son gets cancer and dies at the age of 46.

The fact that he's still an optimistic guy is stunning to me. I've known people who have become bitter for far, far less.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:35 PM   #1229
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Or Trump, if Warren or Bernie get the nomination.

Crossing threads!

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Old 01-15-2020, 06:24 PM   #1230
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#neverWarren #PrimaryWarren #lyingLiz are all trending right now. All that does to me is confirm "Bernie Bros" are the MAGA gang of the left.

Exactly what I've come to think.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:29 PM   #1231
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#neverWarren #PrimaryWarren #lyingLiz are all trending right now. All that does to me is confirm "Bernie Bros" are the MAGA gang of the left.

I mean, they were the MAGA gang of the left in 2016, too. Nothing has changed.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:50 PM   #1232
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Seems like the audio has been released of the post debate confrontation between Warren and Sanders. Apparently Warren said "I think you called me a liar on national TV" and Sanders said "Let's not do this right now" and suggested having the discussion later. Sanders also suggested Warren called him a liar before saying let's do this later.

Sounds like both misinterpreted what the other said because it seems both believe what they are saying is true as opposed to one of them making up a lie for political reasons.

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Old 01-15-2020, 11:27 PM   #1233
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The progressives' Mom & Dad arguing.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/15/polit...dio/index.html
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"I think you called me a liar on national TV," Warren can be heard saying.

"What?" Sanders responded.

"I think you called me a liar on national TV," she repeated.

"You know, let's not do it right now. If you want to have that discussion, we'll have that discussion," Sanders said, to which Warren replied, "Anytime."

"You called me a liar," Sanders continued. "You told me -- all right, let's not do it now."

After their exchange, fellow Democratic candidate Tom Steyer, who had been standing behind the two senators, can be heard saying, "I don't want to get in the middle. I just want to say hi Bernie."
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:04 PM   #1234
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The progressives' Mom & Dad arguing.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/15/polit...dio/index.html

I'm sure everybody's seen it but the video of his is hilarious, especially Tom Steyer and Sanders' response to him.

Warren to Sanders: 'You called me a liar' - YouTube

Warren comes off as super-fake in this whole thing to me.

I believe Warren intentionally twisted around something Sanders said innocently as a desperation move for Iowa. It kind of fits her MO.

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Old 01-17-2020, 12:52 PM   #1235
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Not a good look for Warren. I think this sticks with her negatively more than it does Bernie. If it bothered her then why sit on it until now? Dropping it 3 weeks before Iowa is terrible optics.

The worst part of this is it has the Bernie Bros all fired up and Bernie Broing all over the internet.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:19 PM   #1236
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"I don't want to get into the middle of this, I just want to say hi" might as well be the Steyer 2020 campaign slogan.
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:34 PM   #1237
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Warren releasing a video of her older brothers having a sit down is such a bad look. They’re ancient, for the lack of a better term. She’s always appeared much more youthful than her age but it’s a stupid look. Between that vid and the infamous “I might be a Native American after all” vid I just wonder what idiot is advising her.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:59 PM   #1238
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Biden loves hitting those big lobbyist talking points when it comes to marijuana and video games.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:19 PM   #1239
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Ouch

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/21/polit...ary/index.html
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:36 PM   #1240
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Heh, I'm sure Bernie Bro's will have a calm and well reasoned response to this.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:56 PM   #1241
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The more I watch Bernie, the more he resembles a liberal Ross Perot. He tells everyone in the base exactly what they want to hear - but has no chance in hell of getting even 1/10 of his plan passed in congress. Then, when the adults in the party realize this and try to pick someone else, a large group of Bernie Kool-Aid drinkers want to take their ball and go home. I'm not sure he is really helping the democratic party at this point.
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Old 01-21-2020, 01:08 PM   #1242
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The more I watch Bernie, the more he resembles a liberal Ross Perot. He tells everyone in the base exactly what they want to hear - but has no chance in hell of getting even 1/10 of his plan passed in congress. Then, when the adults in the party realize this and try to pick someone else, a large group of Bernie Kool-Aid drinkers want to take their ball and go home. I'm not sure he is really helping the democratic party at this point.

He gets credit for pushing some talking points and policy proposals to the forefront, but as a candidate he does more damage than good. He will not bow out until he's forced to, continues to whine about a party he wasn't part of until he ran for president not supporting him, and his supporters are so toxic they push people away from the party. He's also refused to say he'll support the dem nominee. That's a softball question that he failed. Not a surprise at all that few in the party like him.

His supporters will whine again when he loses and bitch about the process being rigged. They won't be able to convince themselves that Trump is closer to their ideals than Biden (or whoever wins) this time so it will be interesting to see how those that choose to stay home rationalize it.
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Old 01-21-2020, 01:47 PM   #1243
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The NYTimes video with Bernie talking about saying Happy Birthday is a great encapsulation of his strengths and weaknesses. He won't give someone a bullshit Happy birthday because he's always honest, but he admits people are happy to hear it and it's effective.
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Old 01-21-2020, 01:55 PM   #1244
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The strangest thing about Bernie supporters now is calling Warren a "Republican". Not even that she used to be a Republican so hasn't been progressive since they could walk - no, she's a Republican NOW... which... uh... what?!
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:54 PM   #1245
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Extremists on both the left and right suck.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:47 PM   #1246
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Extremists on both the left and right suck.


+1
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:05 PM   #1247
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I'm surprised Warren didn't have a better answer. I am same with the guy, I feel I gave up other stuff so I could save for college. I see merit in giving relief to borrowers for the better good (not necessarily straight out forgiveness) so hopefully she (and Sanders) have a better answer to what I am sure will be a repeated question in upcoming debates.

Elizabeth Warren Confronted by Father About Student Loan Plan in Iowa: 'Those of Us That Did the Right Thing Get Screwed?'
Quote:
Senator Elizabeth Warren got into a heated confrontation with a father upset over the Democratic presidential candidate's student loan debt forgiveness plan at a campaign event in Iowa this week.

A video showing the man engaging in the exchange with Warren was posted to a pro-Trump Twitter account on Tuesday. The man, who identifies himself as a father that paid for his daughter to attend college, appears to resent the idea of Warren's plan to forgive student loan debt that has yet to be paid.

"My daughter's getting out of school, I saved all my money, she doesn't have any student loans," the man asked Warren in the video. "Am I going to get my money back?"

"Of course not," responded the senator.


The man then became visibly upset, claiming that debt forgiveness for others would mean he got "screwed" because he had already paid for his daughter's tuition.

"So, you're going to pay for people who didn't save any money and those of us that did the right thing get screwed," said the man.

Warren disputed the man's assertion that he'd be "screwed" under her plan. The man insisted that he would be because his friend had spent money in different ways.

"Of course we did. My buddy had fun, bought a car, went on vacation," the man protested. "I saved my money. He made more than I did, but I worked a double shift... since my daughter was 10."


Warren did not respond to the comments but appeared to crack a smile, which further angered the man.

"You're laughing," said the man, before Warren denied having done so.

"Yeah, that's exactly what you're doing. We did the right thing and we got screwed," the man said before angrily walking off. Warren said she "appreciated" the interaction with the man as he walked away.

Warren has vowed to cancel student loan debt up to $50,000 for close to 42 million borrowers if elected president. The senator recently announced that she plans to fulfill the debt forgiveness promise, even without the approval of Congress, by directing the Department of Education to modify loans and eliminate debt.

Warren's student loan forgiveness plan differs based on income, with the highest earners being ineligible for forgiveness. Different schemes have been proposed by other 2020 Democratic presidential candidates. Senator Bernie Sanders proposes cancelling all $1.6 trillion of U.S. student loan debt, regardless of income.

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Old 01-24-2020, 02:26 PM   #1248
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I don't get people that get mad about it myself. Like did people who saved for retirement get pissed off that Social Security was created? Or Medicare? Yes, you don't get the benefit, but this helps millions of people going forward. There is no reason, IMO, to stop something that has a massive benefit for people as well as the economy because people beforehand had to plan for it in more detail.

I don't have any undergraduate student loans. All of that has been paid. Any loans I have are from law school. Now if the only thing Warren or Sanders could get done was forgive undergraduate student loans, I would still be for it. Because it would benefit society, even if I don't personally benefit and even though I had to do things a bit differently.
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Last edited by ISiddiqui : 01-24-2020 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:31 PM   #1249
Galaril
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Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
I don't get people that get mad about it myself. Like did people who saved for retirement get pissed off that Social Security was created? Or Medicare? Yes, you don't get the benefit, but this helps millions of people going forward. There is no reason, IMO, to stop something that has a massive benefit for people as well as the economy because people beforehand had to plan for it in more detail.

Well I can see there point if they are defaulted on the student debt. They chose to take a loan which means they should be expected to pay it. My mortgage is burden on me should I get it paid by the government? If they were swindled somehow into a bad education from one of those fake colleges for profit that is a different story. To me it pandering to a large group of Americas to solicit there votes.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:45 PM   #1250
NobodyHere
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This is why I like Yang, with his $1000/month idea, student borrowers can pay off their loan and other people can do what they wish with the money.
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