MLB 2021 Season Thread

[spleen1015]

It's the Mets.

Other than the Dodgers in the short season of 2020, when was the last time a big spending team won the WS?

[Lathum]

Braves were 11th, so top 1/3rd. Obviously the Dodgers. 2019 Nats were 7th. 2018 Red Sox were 1st. 2017 Astros 17th. 2016 Cubs were 6th.

Not sure what your definition of big spending is, but of the last 6 years only one team in the bottom half, the rest in top 1/3 or higher.

[GrantDawg]

I think top 5 is the big spenders since the payroll is more than double from the biggest spender to number 11.


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[Ksyrup]

Who knew that the only thing we needed to jumpstart a real free agency for the first time in several years was impending doom for the CBA negotiations? We should do this every year!

Tigers sign Javier Baez. I don't recall the numbers, but the amount of money so far is crazy, and only a fraction of a percent of it (so far) is thanks to the Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I love this stuff.

Imagine earning $42M per year to pitch, at best, 30 to 35 times a year.

Also, strange to see the Dodgers lose star players. It seems like they just kept piling them up, on top of one another the past few years.

They still have a strong roster, even without Chris Taylor being signed. They do need some pitching

[SirFozzie]

Today's meeting between MLB and the MLBPA barely started...

and it was over.

30 minutes. We're heading to Lockout Land.

[spleen1015]

That's one thing I've never understood about labor disputes in professional sports. Why do they wait until the last minute to get serious about negotiating?

[henry296]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

That's one thing I've never understood about labor disputes in professional sports. Why do they wait until the last minute to get serious about negotiating?

I feel like teacher union negotiations are very similar. Deadlines spur action.

[cuervo72]

Or the debt ceiling!

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Or the debt ceiling!

Speaking of, the government might shut down on Friday and nobody seems too interested yet.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

They still have a strong roster, even without Chris Taylor being signed. They do need some pitching

No doubt. I'm sure they have, but it just seems like they have not lost anyone significant in awhile and kept adding and adding. Like throwing Bauer, Turner, and Scherzer on top of their World Series winning team. I guess Machado awhile back, but I'm not sure they tried real hard to keep him.

[Ksyrup]

There are very few negotiations that start early with substantive negotiations. The only times that happens are when interests are almost totally aligned, or one party is in a clearly worse position than the other and the underdog has no real interest or ability to drag things out.

[Swaggs]

Dola...

In Pirates news: the team traded gold glove catcher Jacob Stallings to the Marlins yesterday and DFAed Steven Brault and Colin Moran. They now have only two players that played for the team prior to 2019 in Kevin Newman (was a call up in 2018) and Chad Kuhl (been up and down and injured since 2016). There is speculation that they could both also be DFAed today.

Also, with the release of Moran, the Pirates no longer have any of the four players that they acquired in the Gerritt Cole deal remaining in their system. Joe Musgrove seems to be thriving in San Diego (3.5 WAR season in his first year vs 3.8 WAR in three Pirates' seasons + threw a no hitter). Moran had a 0.2 WAR in just over 1500 plate appearances over three years. Jason Martin had a -0.5 (improved to a -0.3 with the Rangers last year!) and Michael Feliz had a -1.2. Cole has had a 20.1 WAR in the last four seasons versus an 11 WAR in five seasons with the Pirates.

Between losing Stallings and Moran, they have to have cut ties with two of the slowest players in all of MLB, at least.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by henry296

I feel like teacher union negotiations are very similar. Deadlines spur action.

Our district has about 8 sessions of negotiating.

[SirFozzie]

What do you guys think of the proposed realignment by the players?
2 15 team leagues
two divisions in each league (one with 8, one with 7)
Division Winners qualify directly for Divisional Series.
Next four best records get wildcard round spots

I kinda like it. Yes, I love rivalries with the Yankees (not so much the Rays right now), but I think 18 games versus a team during a year makes that rivalry a little too oversaturated. And yes, this is set up to be expanded to 32 teams eventually.

(they would also bump the Luxury Tax line to $240 Million)

[SirFozzie]

dola: As a separate post:



This is what I'd probably be happy with if I'm the players

Luxury Tax Line: $220-230 million

Three seasons cost control

4-5: Arbitration

6+: Free Agency

(however, any time in the majors counts as a service year, let's quit the shenanigans about "We have to wait 50 days so we get another pre-arbitration year"

For players not Free Agents, a League Wide "Bonus Pool" based off some metric, (possibly WAR or one of it's very many variants)

(however, any time in the majors counts as a service year, let's quit the shenanigans about "We have to wait 50 days so we get another pre-arbitration year")

[JPhillips]

Interesting that the players think it will be better to have a few teams at the top spend more rather than using the tax to raise the payroll floor.

[molson]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

What do you guys think of the proposed realignment by the players?
2 15 team leagues
two divisions in each league (one with 8, one with 7)
Division Winners qualify directly for Divisional Series.
Next four best records get wildcard round spots

I kinda like it. Yes, I love rivalries with the Yankees (not so much the Rays right now), but I think 18 games versus a team during a year makes that rivalry a little too oversaturated. And yes, this is set up to be expanded to 32 teams eventually.

(they would also bump the Luxury Tax line to $240 Million)

I find conference/division standings with lots of teams to be visually appealing. I have no idea why the NBA insists on 6 divisions when the playoffs are seeded by conference. It just makes it unwieldy and harder to follow.

I also like byes or play-in rounds in the baseball playoffs. I'm afraid they'll someday just go to a 16-team bracket and then there's really no reason to pay attention until the playoffs, if winning 100 games and winning 80 games gets you into the same coin-flip playoff games.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

What do you guys think of the proposed realignment by the players?
2 15 team leagues
two divisions in each league (one with 8, one with 7)
Division Winners qualify directly for Divisional Series.
Next four best records get wildcard round spots

I kinda like it. Yes, I love rivalries with the Yankees (not so much the Rays right now), but I think 18 games versus a team during a year makes that rivalry a little too oversaturated. And yes, this is set up to be expanded to 32 teams eventually.

(they would also bump the Luxury Tax line to $240 Million)

Starting to hate the 1-game playoff. Was fun for a couple of years but a really silly way to end a 162 game season. Playoffs should be at least 5 game series.

If they want to expand, I'd cut the regular season.

[RainMaker]

Baseball is really the only sports left where the regular season really matters. Would be a shame if they expanded to a point where .500 teams are getting in like in other sports. Especially considering playoffs are a crapshoot.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Between the player's proposals and the league's proposals, I'm pretty sure they'll manage to kill my interest once & for all.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Starting to hate the 1-game playoff. Was fun for a couple of years but a really silly way to end a 162 game season. Playoffs should be at least 5 game series.

If they want to expand, I'd cut the regular season.

This, a return to 154 game season with expanded playoff revenue would be more than adequate to maintain or increase the current revenue stream.

Two divisions is cool, but I would add 2 expansion teams if that is the route they want to go. Not necessarily now, but at some point soon for sure.

[RainMaker]

I'd rather see them contract than expand. There are already half a dozen teams who don't bother competing and just cash checks the other teams are generating.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This, a return to 154 game season with expanded playoff revenue would be more than adequate to maintain or increase the current revenue stream.

Two divisions is cool, but I would add 2 expansion teams if that is the route they want to go. Not necessarily now, but at some point soon for sure.

Two expansion teams are coming sooner rather than later. MLB just wants to sort out Oakland and Tampa first before expanding. More competition for expansion bucks if there aren't a couple of wild card teams that can be used for a spot instead.

SI

[RainMaker]

Can't we just contract both those teams if they can't figure out how to make money?

[RainMaker]

Also take Baltimore and Pittsburgh with them.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'd rather see them contract than expand.

This. Would certainly improve the quality of pitching around the league if nothing else.

6 seems like a good number to me.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Can't we just contract both those teams if they can't figure out how to make money?

They can totally make money and are making money. But when you have other teams getting like giant city blocks of downtown real estate to make bank on. Or local TV rights in NYC are just doing to be worth so much more than rights in Milwaukee. They're still making money - that's why the owners will never open up their books - but they're not making nearly /as much/ money.

But this isn't about the individual franchises. This is about MLB eliminating the competition. First, you let the A's and Rays try to get whatever they can out of their towns. But if they can't grift enough taxpayer funds, it's onto the next cities: Portland, Austin, Charlotte, Montreal - whoever will give them close to a billion bucks in taxpayer paid stadiums and other amenities. Only then is MLB going to open up to expansion. They don't want the cities bidding for expansion going "heck, I could just entice the A's or Rays for cheaper than the half billion dollar (or however much) expansion fee". MLB and the owners are wanting to extract every last dollar they can and can wait a couple of years to do it, if need be.

SI

[GrantDawg]

After watching that TMZ video, I don't know how Ozuna only got 20 games. The Braves are going to go from winning the World Series to losing a large portion of the fan base if Ozuna plays next year while Freeman is playing for another team.

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[HomerSimpson98]

A letter to baseball fans | MLB.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

After watching that TMZ video, I don't know how Ozuna only got 20 games. The Braves are going to go from winning the World Series to losing a large portion of the fan base if Ozuna plays next year while Freeman is playing for another team.

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If he hits like he did last season, maybe.
If he hits like he did in 2020 (which was arguably better than 2020 Freeman), the number of people who will be quite forgiving about his situation will be about 98%

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also take Baltimore and Pittsburgh with them.

I don't know about Baltimore, but the Pirates have no problem making money. Their owner just treats ownership more like a yearly business rather than a long-term asset. The Pirates are not his passion, they are just another business in his portfolio.

From the articles that I have read, their current local TV contract is about $44-46M per season (in the same neighborhood as San Diego and Kansas City) and they receive almost $118M from revenue sharing and $91M from national shared revenues. And they've only had a payroll over $90M once in their history (2017 when it was just over $100M). And that is before any box office (not that it is very significant nowadays). Bob Nutting knows what he is doing. The opportunity is there.

[Ksyrup]

Literally posted within a minute or so.

Just based on the replies I'm seeing, I wonder if contracting the Pirates would be the simplest solution to all this. No other team exploits the current rule set to the same extent, no other owner has so clearly refused to put money into his roster.

— Joe Sheehan (@joe_sheehan) December 2, 2021

[Ksyrup]

Obvious, but still funny.

pic.twitter.com/ojwSW7Odbq

— Foolish Baseball (@FoolishBB) December 2, 2021

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If he hits like he did last season, maybe.
If he hits like he did in 2020 (which was arguably better than 2020 Freeman), the number of people who will be quite forgiving about his situation will be about 98%

The Braves have a large female following. I don't think they will be very forgiving.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The Braves have a large female following. I don't think they will be very forgiving.

I believe you misestimate their priorities.

I've known countless female Braves fans -- in fact, the most truly diehard fans I've ever known were women -- but if they're winning, all else falls by the wayside.

[Solecismic]

I heard they added a rule where pitchers had to face three batters? Is that true? Isn't that strange - changing a fundamental rule simply because the television execs refuse to stop adding commercials for every break? Why not just limit on-mound warmup pitches and bring back the bullpen car?

There has never been enough good pitching. That won't change with contraction or expansion. It's just a fact of baseball. If teams played only once a week, making your #1 starter your only starter, there would never be enough good hitting. Somewhere in between there's a balance, but I don't think baseball is going to consider 80-game schedules and the gate reduction (and local television revenue reduction) that would bring. Baseball is the only sport where your top player, healthy, often won't appear in a game.

If the pitchers became more important (maybe they should, as every play starts with the ball in their hands, in a sense like a quarterback), then the ultimate achievement would be when a ball is thrown and then nothing happens for 30 seconds. Just a fraction of a second of whooosh and then chewing and spitting. We would perversely cheer the loudest for the least amount of action. Did they ever put the pitch clock in?

Every sport has its problems. Since local television revenue and gate matter so much more for baseball, expansion might make more sense. Imagine a league with 64 teams and 80-game schedules (no more three-game series' - you are on the move all the time, just like the NBA and NHL). Reduce the roster size - maybe 21, since you'll need fewer pitchers. With the shorter schedule, far less focus on the single-season records. It could work.

Reading that the Phillies just signed a bullpen guy to a $10 million contract. Yeah, this lockout seems like posturing for a better deal rather than a serious concern.

[spleen1015]

The Baltimore GM was in Houston when they tanked to stockpile talent. They'll start signing players when they get a good young core to work with. Maybe 2023, if not 2024, hopefully.

When was the last time a major pro sports in the US contracted?

It is going to be interesting to see where the revenue comes from when the regional sports networks crash.

[Swaggs]

I also don't like the minimum three batter rule. Seeing really great, individual matchups between pitchers vs hitters is one of the best things about the sport and that rule limits it.

I also really hate that they now limit September call ups to 28 players. For teams out of the race, it was always fun to see prospects and marginal AAAA players come up and occasionally see someone get hot for a month. Now, you almost always just get a 3rd catcher and two extra bullpen arms. I'd like to see them have a limit on the active roster of like 30 players and then be able to de-activate four players per game (the four non-starting that night starting pitchers), so each team has 26 players to use per game.

[tarcone]

That open letter reminded me of why the rich get richer and the middle class pays for everything. Im not sure what I think about this whole thing, but this is a synopsis of life in the USA

[BYU 14]

Hell, while we are making our wish lists here is mine

140 game season, split into two 70 game seasons, so in effect we have two sprint to the pennant seasons, reminiscent of 2020, which was the most enjoyable season for me since the late 70's early 80's. Why, because over half the teams had something to play for in the final 2 weeks of the season. It was exciting.

Expand, two 8 team divisions per league, winners from each split season make the playoffs (second best overall record in that division if one team wins both halves.) Then the next 4 best records in both leagues make the playoffs, they are seeded and play a best 2 of 3, with the division winners getting a bye.

Next round 3 out of 5, ALCS/NLCS 4 out of 7. Universal DH, scheduled 7 inning doubleheaders (But screw that extra inning base runner rule) automated strike zone, batter can only step out of the box for an injury or it's a strike, pitchers gets 15 seconds from receiving the ball from the catcher to throw his next pitch or it's a ball.

[cuervo72]

Or reminiscent of 1981!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I also don't like the minimum three batter rule. Seeing really great, individual matchups between pitchers vs hitters is one of the best things about the sport and that rule limits it.

I also really hate that they now limit September call ups to 28 players. For teams out of the race, it was always fun to see prospects and marginal AAAA players come up and occasionally see someone get hot for a month. Now, you almost always just get a 3rd catcher and two extra bullpen arms. I'd like to see them have a limit on the active roster of like 30 players and then be able to de-activate four players per game (the four non-starting that night starting pitchers), so each team has 26 players to use per game.

I used to love having prospects up to the majors for a September cup of coffee. But I abhor pitching changes - I mean, I didn't always but I greatly dislike how it's being deployed now. The changes to the game necessitated the changes to the 40-man rule. In 2019, especially, we were routinely getting 7, 8, and 9 pitchers in games that matter and it's just not good baseball. It might be winning strategy, but it's not a good entertainment product.

I know the owners and players are busy squabbling over cash right now. But they need to sort that out so they can have a reasonable working relationship to fix some of the problems with the actual sports. Sure, they're competing with each other, but they're also competing with other sports and other forms of entertainment and need to bolster that.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Next round 3 out of 5, ALCS/NLCS 4 out of 7. Universal DH, scheduled 7 inning doubleheaders (But screw that extra inning base runner rule) automated strike zone, batter can only step out of the box for an injury or it's a strike, pitchers gets 15 seconds from receiving the ball from the catcher to throw his next pitch or it's a ball.

How about just admitting you don't really like baseball well enough to spend time watching it and just go do something else?

I mean, hurryhurryhurry, why not just let the game be since it's rather obviously not your thing.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

How about just admitting you don't really like baseball well enough to spend time watching it and just go do something else?

I mean, hurryhurryhurry, why not just let the game be since it's rather obviously not your thing.

I think it is time to update the game a little if we're going to play around with little bargaining chips for the CBA.

Automated strike zones can't come soon enough. It'll be a long time until "robots" can do as good a job as humans on the bases (or will matter enough to replace human umpires) but Angel Hernandez's strike zone is something we can leave in the past like those old timey gloves and the dimensions of the Polo Grounds.

Also, I love long baseball games, but game action needs to be happening. If there were an electrical shock every time a batter stepped out of the box or went to adjust his batting gloves, I'd be ok with that. Same with a pitcher walking around the mound. 14 innings, even for a meaningless regular season game: sign me up! The batter on his third straight pitch of walking out of the box to preen for 45 seconds in the 11th inning of said game? That adds nothing.

Get rid of the 7 inning doubleheaders. And GTFO with the stupid extra inning gimmick rules. I think I hate that one even more than I hate the college football OT rules, but I might be biased because the state of Kansas football renders most of my football watching farcical to begin with.

SI

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

How about just admitting you don't really like baseball well enough to spend time watching it and just go do something else?

I mean, hurryhurryhurry, why not just let the game be since it's rather obviously not your thing.

Tell me why if you are taking the stance of a traditionalist that you aren't bothered by the same game that used to take two and half hours to complete now takes 3+?

The only thing in there that has anything to do with spending time watching it, is the ridiculous need to step out of the box 8 times during an at bat, fix your gloves, adjust your helmet, fix your cup and then step back in finally, at which point the pitcher steps off the rubber. There used to be one Mike Hargrove, now every team has 12 of them and it makes the game excruciating slow. I love baseball, but I want to enjoy the game meaning I would like more than 2 seconds of action every 3 minutes.

And the 7 inning doubleheaders are to get more of them, because it is a great way to spend the day, and shortening them saves todays fragile pitching too. It's perfectly reasonably to appreciate the tradition and beauty of the game and wish it was modernized just a touch. Try watching T20 Cricket sometime. That is how you take a slow, boring game like test Cricket and make it fan friendly. Baseball needs a shot of that.

[Solecismic]

Maybe there should be talk about reducing the schedule to 80 games. A lot of the issues seem related to preserving the health of pitchers. Is there any other sport where it's considered normal to have major surgery like the Tommy John procedure (and for that matter, if steroid use for extra performance is banned, why is it OK to move tendons around like you're wiring a new house)?

It's not safe to throw 200 innings in six months. Football teams don't play twice a week because players need time to recover. So do pitchers.

[sterlingice]

I think anything close to 80 games would be a non-starter with both sides, considering what percentage of baseball revenue is from the gates. I could see maybe a reversion back to like 154 but to cut gate revenues in half is just not going to fly.

SI

[Swaggs]

No way they cut games. They earn so much media revenue at this point that cutting games down by even 10% would be significant. They could make some of that back up by expanding the playoffs, but I can't see them cutting their media inventory unless they could more than make it up with additional postseason games and then they are competing more with the NBA and NFL. I do agree with Jim about the injuries and now that we know so much more about the risk factors, I again come back to thinking about having a taxi squad of extra players. A 5-7 man taxi squad would allow teams to carry an extra catcher around (let's face it, it feels like 80% of catchers are 30-35 year old journeymen that can't hit anyway - they aren't going to be missing out on development time in the minors), let them rest nicked up players that could benefit from rest without going on the DL, and rotate pitchers in and out a little more.

[Swaggs]

I also think that drastically changing the number of games would spoil some of the magic numbers in baseball. Things like 20-game winners and 100 RBIs and 30/30 seasons (not to mention career numbers like 3,000 hits or 500 HR) seem more important in MLB than they do in other sports.