OOTP 18 Released Today

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

I hate how OOTP scouts.

I find it to much of a coin flip. Too random.

OSA, just a baseline, is always radically different then a regular scouts view.
You get 10 scouts together. 2 might see 20 year old Mike Trout as the next coming of Jesus. 5 might see him as a good player. 3 might see him as a horrible player. RANDOM. Whose right? There's no way you can know.

So if you get the top spot in a draft. You aren't really making a educated guess. You are hoping you are lucky enough to have a scout which doesn't hate the best player available. Random...

soory, I'm tired of people shitting on OOTP scouting. That stuff above? That's pretty accurate as far as scouting goes. Was Trout a unanimous 1.1? No, not even close.:

1 Stephen Strasburg
2 Dustin Ackley
3 Donavan Tate
4 Tony Sanchez
5 Matt Hobgood
6 Zack Wheeler
7 Mike Minor
8 Mike Leake
9 Jacob Turner
10 Drew Storen
11 Tyler Matzek
12 Aaron Crow
13 Grant Green
14 Matt Purke*
15 Alex White
16 Bobby Borchering
17 A. J. Pollock
18 Chad James
19 Shelby Miller
20 Chad Jenkins
21 Jiovanni Mier
22 Kyle Gibson
23 Jared Mitchell
24 Randal Grichuk
25 Mike Trout

If you saw this in OOTP your head would explode.

The issues are your understanding of scouting and your expectations, not OOTP.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Interesting things for me, as I've been playing is that promotion/relegation setup is in the game now, as is more historical leagues (3 of the seven recognized Negro Major leagues), and a challenge mode.

One think I have to say is that the program runs great. All games have teething problems it seems, crashes to dekstop etcetera, but this runs perfectly.

Wait, OOTP can do relegation?

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

soory, I'm tired of people shitting on OOTP scouting. That stuff above? That's pretty accurate as far as scouting goes. Was Trout a unanimous 1.1? No, not even close.:

1 Stephen Strasburg
2 Dustin Ackley
3 Donavan Tate
4 Tony Sanchez
5 Matt Hobgood
6 Zack Wheeler
7 Mike Minor
8 Mike Leake
9 Jacob Turner
10 Drew Storen
11 Tyler Matzek
12 Aaron Crow
13 Grant Green
14 Matt Purke*
15 Alex White
16 Bobby Borchering
17 A. J. Pollock
18 Chad James
19 Shelby Miller
20 Chad Jenkins
21 Jiovanni Mier
22 Kyle Gibson
23 Jared Mitchell
24 Randal Grichuk
25 Mike Trout

If you saw this in OOTP your head would explode.

The issues are your understanding of scouting and your expectations, not OOTP.

Understanding seems to be your issue here. I didn't say Trout was a unanimous #1. I used him as an example of how scouts view players in the game. A huge difference between views. HUGE

Lets go Strasburg then, sense you listed him first. There are scouts in OOTP that will see that prospect, and rate him 5/4/5 and half a star. WHY???!!! What control do i have over this. Its random.

Im not talking about development, im talking about how random OOTP scouting is. Go into a online league and listen to people talk about their draft lists when scouting is on. 28 picks in and you hear "My number 1 is still on the board" "Wow, i see the top pick as a 1 star scrub"

As a player, we can only go by what we see, and if our scout sees a player as a scrub, theres nothing we can do about it. THAT IS RANDOM. THAT REQUIRES NO SKILL. JUST LUCK.

So go bang your head against the wall some more. It might actually help you.

[molson]

How can scouting be anything but random in a text sim? They're not real players, you can't watch them swing a bat.

I thought the cranky guy in the OOTP forum Troy linked to made some good points. The scouting experience is intended to be a little chaotic, always-changing, pieced together from different flawed sources, etc. Modern text sims seem to have thrown more wrenches into that system, 10 or 15+ years ago you'd just pick the players with the highest ratings. FOF has the combine stats that are really just another kind of scouting, but even that seemed to be more about recognizing patterns and how the game is programmed (I think - I never wanted to delve into that stuff).

[rjolley]

Can you still buy OOTP 18 on preorder, or is that deal done now?

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by molson

How can scouting be anything but random in a text sim? They're not real players, you can't watch them swing a bat.

I thought the cranky guy in the OOTP forum Troy linked to made some good points. The scouting experience is intended to be a little chaotic, always-changing, pieced together from different flawed sources, etc. Modern text sims seem to have thrown more wrenches into that system, 10 or 15+ years ago you'd just pick the players with the highest ratings. FOF has the combine stats that are really just another kind of scouting, but even that seemed to be more about recognizing patterns and how the game is programmed (I think - I never wanted to delve into that stuff).

I'm fine with variability, but the reasons are never explained. With the hypothetical of Strasburg, if most scouts rate him as a 5 star prospect, I don't want an otherwise good scout to rate him as a 1 star prospect without a reason. It would be more realistic, at least for the top of the ladder prospects, to have a scout putting a red flag on Strasburg by saying he's a higher injury risk than others and downgrading him because of that. It's just so random. I mentioned this earlier but it's also a problem that if you change scouts, and your new scout is almost identical to the previous one, player ratings in your system change dramatically and it seems to genuinely impact player improvement.

[molson]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I mentioned this earlier but it's also a problem that if you change scouts, and your new scout is almost identical to the previous one, player ratings in your system change dramatically and it seems to genuinely impact player improvement.

It's been a while since I've played OOTP, but why can't different scouts have different opinions of a player even if the scouts are similar in rating?

If we could somehow rank real-life scouts and give them a ranking, it wouldn't be crazy if the 14th and 15th rated scouts disagreed on certain players.

[IlliniCub]

So anyone that bought it, what does the improved 3d entail this year? I saw the pawns look a little better, but how is the actual motion? Is it as glitchy as last year?

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by molson

It's been a while since I've played OOTP, but why can't different scouts have different opinions of a player even if the scouts are similar in rating?

If we could somehow rank real-life scouts and give them a ranking, it wouldn't be crazy if the 14th and 15th rated scouts disagreed on certain players.

Okay, scout A and B both are rated as outstanding for minor leagues and both favor tools. Scout A rates a player as 4.5 potential and 2.5 current. Scout B rates that same player, with nothing other than a few days between hires, as 2.5 potential and 1 current. The player's performance adjusts according to the ratings and his play drops off dramatically from the time the new scout is hired.

That's not realistic and I've seen it enough times that I'd prefer to not have a lead scout and try to hire very young ones who won't retire on me anytime soon.

[jbergey22]

Agree with both sides on this. Wonderful game that I wished I could have played in my childhood. Some of the under the hood issues that never seem to get fixed just baffle be as well. People will actually argue on the OOTP forums that an intentional walk up 3 runs in the 7th/8th inning makes sense because it sets up the double play These type of strategical miscues wear me down after a while and I have to create storylines in my head around this. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...35#post3342035

Still, it takes some extremely high standards to rate this game anything but great. Markus is just a bit too open minded about who he lets give him suggestions.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by IlliniCub

So anyone that bought it, what does the improved 3d entail this year? I saw the pawns look a little better, but how is the actual motion? Is it as glitchy as last year?

You can use the pawns or choose the enhanced version which look "almost" like players... they have a cap and hold a bat at the plate. Right now it's a bit choppy, but they are working on a fix. The whole 3D runs faster and looks great, plus the 3D ballparks have really been updated this year!

The classic skin is crisp and clean, there's a ticker now on the MLB homepage and I'm playing challenge mode, which also allows the WBC to be played before the season, really cool imho.

I think it's amazing how much Markus and team continues to add between each version. I admire his work ethic and dedication to his customers.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

It's kinda amazing the reaction here, compared to elsewhere. If you listened to FOFC members, this is a stagnating game that hasn't been worth purchasing for several years, and then you look at the reviews for the last version, and find out it got the Game of the Year award from Metacritic.

Not saying people are wrong, either side, but I think that some of it is that FOFC is more grognard-focused (I almost said hipsterish at first, but that's not really it).

I buy it every year because it's the best baseball sim going and I get my money's worth.

Most of the people who gripe about it like myself just want it to mimic real baseball better. Have financials that play out like the real world. Have game management play like actual baseball games.

Basically I want OOTP to be like FM is for soccer. FM looks at the soccer world and says how can we put that in our game and do it right. OOTP looks at the baseball world and says how can we make it like soccer.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Can you still buy OOTP 18 on preorder, or is that deal done now?

Not sure but they are supposed to have a 10% discount on Steam for a week when it releases on the 24th.

[lungs]

I'm liking the ball flight in 3D. Much improved IMO

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by molson

How can scouting be anything but random in a text sim? They're not real players, you can't watch them swing a bat.

I thought the cranky guy in the OOTP forum Troy linked to made some good points. The scouting experience is intended to be a little chaotic, always-changing, pieced together from different flawed sources, etc. Modern text sims seem to have thrown more wrenches into that system, 10 or 15+ years ago you'd just pick the players with the highest ratings. FOF has the combine stats that are really just another kind of scouting, but even that seemed to be more about recognizing patterns and how the game is programmed (I think - I never wanted to delve into that stuff).

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it SHOULD be chaotic. It should absolutely be chaotic. The 25th best player in the draft should sometimes become the best player. Occasionally, a guy drafted WAY down the list should turn into Mike Piazza.

And some of that IS luck. Of course it is. It should be.

But the top prospect in the draft should be scouted as pretty damned good by just about everyone. Mike Trout should be graded as a 1st to 3rd round pick by just about everyone. There can be exceptions, but as someone above said, nobody should have a scout that says "Strasburg is a scrub" You might have a guy say "he's overrated, I think he's closer to ten than one" No issue with that.

Thing is, unless things changed drastically, I don't see a lot of 3rd round picks become all stars in OOTP. By that time my scout has everyone rated between .5 and 1.5 stars of potential and I'm letting the AI sim because the last three years I spent tons of time hoping the power hitter would develop into a player or the power pitcher might be a little better than the ratings indicate all were shelled in rookie ball. Without the reward of even one or two late round guys bursting through, what's the point of me even trying to find that diamond in the rough?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it SHOULD be chaotic. It should absolutely be chaotic. The 25th best player in the draft should sometimes become the best player. Occasionally, a guy drafted WAY down the list should turn into Mike Piazza.

And some of that IS luck. Of course it is. It should be.

But the top prospect in the draft should be scouted as pretty damned good by just about everyone. Mike Trout should be graded as a 1st to 3rd round pick by just about everyone. There can be exceptions, but as someone above said, nobody should have a scout that says "Strasburg is a scrub" You might have a guy say "he's overrated, I think he's closer to ten than one" No issue with that.

Thing is, unless things changed drastically, I don't see a lot of 3rd round picks become all stars in OOTP. By that time my scout has everyone rated between .5 and 1.5 stars of potential and I'm letting the AI sim because the last three years I spent tons of time hoping the power hitter would develop into a player or the power pitcher might be a little better than the ratings indicate all were shelled in rookie ball. Without the reward of even one or two late round guys bursting through, what's the point of me even trying to find that diamond in the rough?

This can usually be fixed by improving your creation modifiers beyond the default, so that average talent is a bit better then you get players who emerge that way in later rounds. It does happen, it's just a bit inconsistent without tinkering.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

This can usually be fixed by improving your creation modifiers beyond the default, so that average talent is a bit better then you get players who emerge that way in later rounds. It does happen, it's just a bit inconsistent without tinkering.

Yep, which is where the "exhausting" part comes in. As I said above, this is the response for just about everything in this game. Tweak this, turn off that, alter this. . . I know how much work Ben has put into the modifiers for the league batting ratings.

At some point, I just get sick of having to tweak or turn off every single thing that doesn't add up.

Maybe I'm just becoming an old, crotchety whiner. I just can't deal with it anymore.

BTW: Thanks for your efforts and the financial mod. I know you have tried to talk to Markus about fixing them and I know the results. Appreciate your efforts.

[frnk55]

How is the new injury setting? How is the new personality setting? If these settings are good I may buy but if not it will be the 1st ootp I haven't bought.

[MizzouRah]

Minor injured players can now stay in the game, plus it tells you in the pbp what was injured, ie.. hand, etc..

Haven't played enough for the new personality stuff, but I love the new team chemistry page.

For you 3d peeps like myself.. the "enhanced" 3d has more believable players instead of pawns.. you can see a hat and jerseys, they also have bats and you can see them slide. The 3d is much more fluid and the stadiums have moving crowds and backdrops of the city skylines. You can also sim your games and then watch the highlights in 3d and hide the score if you want - really cool feature!

The "classic" skin might be the best skin they have ever released, at least imho.

Game loads and saves much faster for me than 17 did.

There was a patch released today full of bug fixes. Oh, and my Cardinals are 2-0 so far, beating the Cubbies twice!

[MizzouRah]

New classic skin




Enhanced 3d

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Amazing that it only took us 25 years to reach MicroLeague-level displays on a baseball sim.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Amazing that it only took us 25 years to reach MicroLeague-level displays on a baseball sim.

and yet no other text sim has it besides FM... shame...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

and yet no other text sim has it besides FM... shame...

Yeah, I'm going to give OOTP a whirl. Hoping it sucks me in a bit more than in the past.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

. Oh, and my Cardinals are 2-0 so far, beating the Cubbies twice!

Games broken

Because basically I have one fictional sim (Kind of my Universal Baseball Association, J Henry Waugh Prop) that I have carried over through 3 versions and play game by game with my team, and I love to do historical sims, 17 did not suck me in that much. Mainly because I really only played my fictional game.

Historical had not seen much of anything new (That wowed me) for several versions and the 3D was wonky.

In 18 the addition of Negro Leagues, expanded historical minors, 3D improvements and the several little additions that increase immersion. I am sure this will get a lot more play time.

Plus, OOTP is kind of a tradition, I still have the CD from version 1 and have never missed a version.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yeah, I'm going to give OOTP a whirl. Hoping it sucks me in a bit more than in the past.

It will suck you in like Mizzou basketball next year!

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Games broken

Because basically I have one fictional sim (Kind of my Universal Baseball Association, J Henry Waugh Prop) that I have carried over through 3 versions and play game by game with my team, and I love to do historical sims, 17 did not suck me in that much. Mainly because I really only played my fictional game.

Historical had not seen much of anything new (That wowed me) for several versions and the 3D was wonky.

In 18 the addition of Negro Leagues, expanded historical minors, 3D improvements and the several little additions that increase immersion. I am sure this will get a lot more play time.

Plus, OOTP is kind of a tradition, I still have the CD from version 1 and have never missed a version.

We are 2-2 now.. back down to Earth we go!

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

We are 2-2 now.. back down to Earth we go!

Whew, they do get patches out quick when there is an issue.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Whew, they do get patches out quick when there is an issue.

[Neuqua]

What would be the cheapest laptop price range for something that would be able to play this?

All I have are Chromebooks currently but I do have an itch to get back into this and FBCB.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

What would be the cheapest laptop price range for something that would be able to play this?

All I have are Chromebooks currently but I do have an itch to get back into this and FBCB.

$350-$500. Aim for the best processor you can get.

Edit: You could definitely run it on a cheaper laptop than that but it'll sim at a much slower speed I'd imagine.

[Ramzavail]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Games broken

Because basically I have one fictional sim (Kind of my Universal Baseball Association, J Henry Waugh Prop) that I have carried over through 3 versions and play game by game with my team, and I love to do historical sims, 17 did not suck me in that much. Mainly because I really only played my fictional game.

Historical had not seen much of anything new (That wowed me) for several versions and the 3D was wonky.

In 18 the addition of Negro Leagues, expanded historical minors, 3D improvements and the several little additions that increase immersion. I am sure this will get a lot more play time.

Plus, OOTP is kind of a tradition, I still have the CD from version 1 and have never missed a version.

any chance you could get me an export of the version 1 rosters? I remember that the players all had really awesome fake names but they were real players with their stats. I remember guys like Pedro Balls (Gabe White) and Shovel Bryant (I think Bubba Trammell) and Pop and Kid Jamison (Vizquel and Thome)

[Ramzavail]

that screenshot looks awesome.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ramzavail

any chance you could get me an export of the version 1 rosters? I remember that the players all had really awesome fake names but they were real players with their stats. I remember guys like Pedro Balls (Gabe White) and Shovel Bryant (I think Bubba Trammell) and Pop and Kid Jamison (Vizquel and Thome)

I don't even know how I would extract that?? I will try and load it up tomorrow and if it runs, see what I can do.

[EagleFan]

They still haven't fixed the league setup. I want to create a league that starts before opening day for a standard league but even changing the schedule to start on January 1st (for all of the freaking leagues involved) it still ignores that and schedules the league based on the current season's schedule. Why allow you to change those settings for a standard league if it does nothing?

For a game that is supposed to allow all this customization it certainly drops the ball here.

Anyone know any way to easily create an entirely new league but use all of the existing players?

I basically want to use the same players that are in the current year's database but create my own league setup with promotion/relegation; dump all of the players to free agency and allow them to be signed by any team prior to the season.

What should be a fairly easy request turns into a tedious task.

[Ragone]

Was thinking about getting this and finding a league to play in perhaps.. any suggestions?

[Johnny93g]

In my online league...

My CF gets hurt in game 1 of a weeks worth of sims.

This stupid game decides to play my 38 year old backup C in CF for 5 games. Yes, I had a available OFer on the bench for each and every one of those games, and another player capable of playing OF at 1st base.

Highlights though....we get highlights.

Marcus, your a joke with shit like this happening.....

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

In my online league...

My CF gets hurt in game 1 of a weeks worth of sims.

This stupid game decides to play my 38 year old backup C in CF for 5 games. Yes, I had a available OFer on the bench for each and every one of those games, and another player capable of playing OF at 1st base.

Highlights though....we get highlights.

Marcus, your a joke with shit like this happening.....

Did you have a sub set for him though? If not, that might be why no one else played the position. It is strange though, the game didn't think "someone else has better skills at this position?"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

This stupid game decides to play my 38 year old backup C in CF for 5 games. Yes, I had a available OFer on the bench for each and every one of those games, and another player capable of playing OF at 1st base.

Why would I further guess that moving the 1B to the OF and playing the backup C at 1B (if it was going to insist on putting him into the lineup over the backup OFer) would have been better than what was done?

[Ragone]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

In my online league...

My CF gets hurt in game 1 of a weeks worth of sims.

This stupid game decides to play my 38 year old backup C in CF for 5 games. Yes, I had a available OFer on the bench for each and every one of those games, and another player capable of playing OF at 1st base.

Highlights though....we get highlights.

Marcus, your a joke with shit like this happening.....

Was your manager Bryan price? because thats something he would actually do.

[cuervo72]

OOTP has never been good with lineup contingencies. If you have a player slotted as a starter at one position, I'm pretty sure he's ruled out from being used anywhere else. There are no cascading changes. Which is unfortunate.

[Johnny93g]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Did you have a sub set for him though? If not, that might be why no one else played the position. It is strange though, the game didn't think "someone else has better skills at this position?"

I had 1 O.F. set to backup all three positions vs. Lefties, and a different one vs. Righties. Each game the C played CF, a real outfielder sat on the bench.

The C has a rating at 1b, its bad, but he has a rating at 1B, so it would have made more sense to see him move to 1B and the 1B play OF, but that to would completely ignore the OF sitting on the bench, watching.

The catcher BTW was horrible, obviously, in CF.

It bugs me the fluff that gets added to the game, when real issues with the engine keep popping up.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

It bugs me the fluff that gets added to the game, when real issues with the engine keep popping up.

And that's why I won't buy it anymore. It's a decent to good game that could be great if Markus gave a crap about the actual gameplay over things like pro/rel.

[RainMaker]

Does promotion/relegation even exist in a single baseball league in the world? Why is it in a baseball sim?

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Does promotion/relegation even exist in a single baseball league in the world? Why is it in a baseball sim?

Because the ootp boards are some weird, cult-like echo chamber and they wanted it.

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

And that's why I won't buy it anymore. It's a decent to good game that could be great if Markus gave a crap about the actual gameplay over things like pro/rel.

It's true. I played a game the other day, and the starting pitcher gave up, like, ten runs in the first before the manager pulled him. Very unrealistic.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

It's true. I played a game the other day, and the starting pitcher gave up, like, ten runs in the first before the manager pulled him. Very unrealistic.

Think there is comeback logic in there too; cruising with a lead until the 9th and suddenly a 3 run home run ties it; luckily won with a bloop single in the bottom of the 9th.

[MizzouRah]

There has to be something wrong.. my Cardinals are tied with the Cubs for 1st place after 50 games.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Does promotion/relegation even exist in a single baseball league in the world? Why is it in a baseball sim?

Netherlands and France

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Does promotion/relegation even exist in a single baseball league in the world? Why is it in a baseball sim?

Because it is a great option; and would make for a better league in the US.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Because it is a great option; and would make for a better league in the US.

So does being able to set lineups properly and have realistic financials.

Guess I feel it should cater toward fans who want a realistic baseball game before catering toward fans who wish baseball was soccer.