Werewolf CXXXIII - The Dark Knight - MOBSTERS WIN

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Danny

So actually I am only in arkam and am free to torment without Batman once I am released or escape.

I think you may have to wait until the third in the trilogy to appear again. But yes, I'm keeping track of who is dead, who is locked up.

Next one is Harvey's turn to shine though. You guys really annoyed me with that lynch.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yeah, and you guys didn't realize that Batman counted as 2 villagers, so you were going to be in for a shock if you got to endgame with him still in the game. I was waiting for that fit. But I'll say Batman's worth any two of you any day ;-)

His vote didn't count double though, right? Because at 2-2 we just lock the village out of the game.

[Autumn]

No, his vote didn't. Just that you had to get to 2-1 to win with him in game.

[Tyrith]

Oh, I haven't mentioned this myself, but great game, Autumn. The flavor was a lot of fun, run very efficiently, A+ all around.

[Autumn]

Thanks, I'm glad people enjoyed it. I really loved the mechanics, and while balance was hard to get, I felt like the mechanics mostly proved the exact effects I was looking for. Although corruption didn't end up doing much other than one missed scan.

[Autumn]

Here's what I have for night actions:

Night 1

Lathum - Protect NTN (Mauboy if dead)
Abe - investigate Joker
Mauboy - kill JAG

Night 2

NTN - scan Chubby
Abe- investigate Joker
Lathum - guard Hoopsguy
Hoops - kill narcizo

Night 3
Lathum - protect Zinto (hoops)
Abe - investigate Joker
Hoops - kill the Jackal

Night4
Abe - Capture Joker
CF - scan Chubby
hOOPS - kills Thomkal

Night 5
Hoops - kill mckerney
crimsonfox - scan J23
Abe - protect hoopsguy

night 6
cf - scan mckerney (darth vilus)
tyrith - kill cf
abe - protect CF

Night 7

CF - scan DV (Tyrith)
Tyrith - kill Abe

I can't vouch they're perfectly accurate.

[Tyrith]

Yeah, the balance could have been tweaked some, but it's really hard to get it exactly right in a game that has such powerful roles. But the roles have to be powerful, it's a superhero game, and not the kind of game where everyone can be powerful at once. So there's giong to be the chance for certain people to really influence events.

Honestly, I'm glad Batman and The Joker were who they were, they did a really good job.

[Autumn]

I thought there migbht be some real Batman/Joker drama on day 4. Abe had just learned enough the night before to now capture Joker. And then that day Danny picked Batman and Gordon as his two victims. Now Abe had the ability to foil the plan and save them both, but he would have to put off capturing the Joker. He was not tempted however, and stuck to the plan.

[hoopsguy]

I thought it was a very fun game to play, and that the element of not revealing powers on death made for an interesting guessing game for both sides.

PS - I mentioned that via IM last night even before the brutal wolf showdown stuff today

[Autumn]

Frankly, I expected the mob to be the underpowered group, and they were. That just was the flavor, if it wasn't for the Joker, the mob shouldn't have a chance against Batman. So I kind of went in knowing the mob got the short end of the stick. You guys made up for it though.

Tyrith, your mention of the brutal today really was a game changer too. That was great.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I thought there migbht be some real Batman/Joker drama on day 4. Abe had just learned enough the night before to now capture Joker. And then that day Danny picked Batman and Gordon as his two victims. Now Abe had the ability to foil the plan and save them both, but he would have to put off capturing the Joker. He was not tempted however, and stuck to the plan.

What a soulless monster superhero :P

[CrimsonFox]

you PROTECTED Hoopsguy?!?!?!? Yeah Mvp...right

[Autumn]

And here's a peek inside the Death of Batman:

You seek out the man called Abe Sargent at Wayne Manor. All you know leads you to believe that he is in truth the secret Batman. But the house looks like any other. Men surround the mansion, and as you move in with the hit team, they pour gasoline over the building. You don't dare take any chances. If this man is the Batman there's no telling what he's capable of.

He emerges at the sounds of your approach. He just seems an ordinary man and you wonder if you've made a mistake, but then you see the way he's walking, the bandages on his torso. He's hurt. Gunshot wound, through armor, to the ribs it looks like.

He doesn't wait for you to open fire, he's on you. Even without his suit, his gadgets, he's faster than all of you, stronger, better trained. He takes out two of the goons before they can raise their pistols, soon he's right in the middle of all of you, guns are useless, and no one can take him hand to hand.

Or they couldn't, if not for the ribs. Gambol waits for his spot and delivers a hard kick to Abe's ribs. He grunts in pain and loses his focus. Someone gets a gun but on his head, two others wrestle him down from behind. Gambol aims the gun at the man on the floor and fires. The Batman is down.

The roar of flames suddenly sounds. It seems the guys are eager. "Get out of here," Gambol tells the others. Looking down at Abe Sargent, bleeding out on the floor, Gambol gives him a kick and then turns and runs. The house is going up like gangbusters, nobody's going to get out alive.

You killed Abe Sargent.

And from the other side:

You spend the night in Wayne Manor, recuperating from the shot you took to the chest. The armor kept it from piercing, but the damage is still intense, and painful. If you can just rest up enough you can get back out there tomorrow night. The Batman can't afford to take the night off, but Alfred insists when he sees you attempting to walk.

You're walking to the bathroom when you see them. The mob is here, in the Manor. They're armed, you're not, but you don't hesitate, charging into them with your hands and fists. Two are down before they can react, and then you're in the middle of them, not letting them use their guns, forcing them to take you on hand to hand. They can't of course, they're not trained well enough.

Or they couldn't, if not for the ribs. Gambol is there, you see him, but not before he aims a hard kick at the bandages. You see red for a moment and then see stars as someone hits you with a gun butt. Two others are dragging you down from behind and now they have their numbers. Gambol stands over you and fires and you feel it like a bolt of lightning through your gut. You see him glance worriedly behind and then the mob starts to retreat. He gives you a last kick and he leaves you too, a bullet in your gut, your blood running out on the floor. You don't know why but then you hear it. The sound of flames. They've set the Manor on fire.

Your vision is almost black, and the air in the room getting hotter even as your body goes colder. The last thing you see is the face of Alfred bending over you. You feel his arms under your shoulders and he starts dragging you. It hurts to move, your blood is almost gone and all goes black. The last thing you hear is bats.

You have been night killed. You are out of the game ... but maybe not the sequel.

[Autumn]

Abe definitely changed this game, sticking to the best strategy for beating the Joker.

Things could have gone wild though. A random Joker kill taking out Dawes and creating Two Face was what I was secretly hoping for.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Frankly, I expected the mob to be the underpowered group, and they were. That just was the flavor, if it wasn't for the Joker, the mob shouldn't have a chance against Batman. So I kind of went in knowing the mob got the short end of the stick. You guys made up for it though.

Tyrith, your mention of the brutal today really was a game changer too. That was great.

I knew the only chance I had was to give it the hard sell. If I equivocated, that would just increase the possibility for them to call BS.

[CrimsonFox]

autumn, you missed night 6 - Abe protect CF

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Now you guys nearly ruined my fun by lynching Harvey. Harvey's additional rules were that if Rachel died or was lynched, he became Two Face. He would become a Criminal, but neutral to the Mob, was Joker was. He would retain his double vote but gain an ability to scan for a role every night. Two Face's new victory conditions were to remove all named roles, not including the Joker, from the game, both good and bad. If the mob, excluding Lau, was eliminated he got a night kill. He was also a brutal lynch.

Very cool, I actually had a feeling something like that could be in the fame, but that was more clever than I had pictured it.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

autumn, you missed night 6 - Abe protect CF

Says who.

[CrimsonFox]

anyway thanks for letting me in the game. I tried. Life kinda got in the way a little. hoops had a lucky rabbit's foot in finding the hour and a half window I was not available. And that's just it, he had no idea I was gone. That's what I was so mad at. That it was just dumb luck that I had to be gone at excatly then.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Says who.

says Abe. What else would "you can thank me" mean. There was no night kill. I was alive. Even as you just posted that tyrith's orders were "kill CF".


anyway MVP wolf = Tyrith. Holy shit man that was freaking awesome. Love that in your face ballsout style.

[MrBug708]

Had CF scanned me instead of DV, we might have won this

[hoopsguy]

Yep, I was expecting a showdown with the time I revealed. I figured I would lose but at least help the mob know where they needed to in order to remove the seer.

[Autumn]

Yeah, CF, thanks a ton for jumping in and right into the middle of things. That was great, and definitely helped the game keep up its momentum.

I think for the rest of my games i'll have a "replacement player" policy. I felt bad that people were reading one way or the other into when I chose to replace NTN. Something like, no posts or PMs in 48 hours means you're out? Hard and fast so there's no question about it.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

says Abe. What else would "you can thank me" mean. There was no night kill. I was alive. Even as you just posted that tyrith's orders were "kill CF".


anyway MVP wolf = Tyrith. Holy shit man that was freaking awesome. Love that in your face ballsout style.

I was just teasing, I already edited it.

[hoopsguy]

I'm sorry that we didn't get more time with mauboy, especially with a couple of the votes coming from his own, but I really had a good time playing with Tyrith and Darth - both guys were involved with the discussions and willing to keep adapting on the fly every night. It is fun getting a chance to do the wolf thing with new people, and this was a really good experience.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

says Abe. What else would "you can thank me" mean. There was no night kill. I was alive. Even as you just posted that tyrith's orders were "kill CF".


anyway MVP wolf = Tyrith. Holy shit man that was freaking awesome. Love that in your face ballsout style.

When you called me out on it I was pretty convinced it wasn't going to work out. Thanks for proving me wrong

[Tyrith]

Reading the spectator thread now - I highly recommend it, this seems like a really good innovation for keeping people involved in the game.

[The Jackal]

Great game. Was fun to play in and keep reading along with. Good win for the bad guys.

[Tyrith]

BTW, Thomkal had been slated for death the night he died before he took on all those votes. I sat my computer trying to figure out who to kill for a good half hour between the deadlines, thinking I had to make the choice alone. Fortunately hoops came back and pushed to keep it on Thomkal, and I was okay it with. We invalidated an entire day's voting record and kept people completely confused, while still making productive kills of intelligent players.

[CrimsonFox]

Well I didn't believe your motivations and still it left me wondering but I can't ignore the facts. And when there are no rules really spelled out everything is kinda a wild guess. A cunning but no brutal. Whoda thunk.

[CrimsonFox]

It was really a sound notion J23. Couldn't fault it at all really.

[Autumn]

Who thinks CF is still on the last page, replying?

[Tyrith]

And for the people in the speculation thread, I took the kill on Batman to bank half a win. Pretty much all there was to it, since things were looking pretty bleak at that point in terms of lynches, and we didn't know DV would get to make kills if he was the last wolf.

[Narcizo]

I think that's probably the best played wolf game I've been a part of. Kudos to you guys. I was particularly impressed with Tyrith. I don't remember playing with him as a wolf before and I don't think he was anyone's radar until near the end. Pulling out a win here was a fantastic job.

Last night I remembered what CF had said about the cops and realised that the citizen must be the cunning because he's probably Lau and Lau couldn't possibly be a cop. But it's easy to think of that stuff when you're not in the game.

Great game Autumn - really interesting rule-set and great write-ups. Easily one of my favourite games, just a shame I got killed so soon.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I thought there migbht be some real Batman/Joker drama on day 4. Abe had just learned enough the night before to now capture Joker. And then that day Danny picked Batman and Gordon as his two victims. Now Abe had the ability to foil the plan and save them both, but he would have to put off capturing the Joker. He was not tempted however, and stuck to the plan.

I really wasn;t/. I didn;lt know The Joker's powers, and I had no way of knowing if he;d just turn around and choose me again the following day, so I just went with the plan to take him out N4.

[Abe Sargent]

Autumn, I thought you had a fucktasticly great game. And I won the fucking jackpot of all WW roles to get Batman in his own game. I cant tell you how happy I was!

[Darth Vilus]

Awesome game Autumn, i enjoyed it immensely! really superb, can't wait for the sequel! And congrats to my mobster brothers, you guys were awesome. Very diabolic :-)

[Narcizo]

Close end games always seem to go the wolves' way from what I've seen. But I guess that that's the result of the wolves having a relative numeric superiority compared to the rest of the game.

[Chubby]

i got scanned twice and you still fell for the obvious fake reveal???

[Zinto]

Loved the game Autumn thanks for running it.

Awesome job by the wolves. Everything you guys did seemed to work and you guys did a great job at buying trust.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Chubby

i got scanned twice and you still fell for the obvious fake reveal???

You don't lynch a role reveal unless it's countered or its end game. I'm biased because I would have been voting to lynch you from day three onwards, but you didn't exactly offer up much in the way of analysis as to why the village shouldn't have lynched you. You'd have been switching your vote along with the rest if it wasn't your head on the block. Personally I was confused by hoops' action because I had both of you down as wolves. It's easier to see things clearer afterwards.

[Narcizo]

Day One

#82 Mon 14:01 JAG votes ntndeacon (1)
#92 Mon 14:44 Narcizo votes mauboy (1)
#159 06:31 Hoopsguy votes MrBug (1)
#201 09:22 Packer votes Mauboy (2)
#253 11:23 ntndeacon votes MrBug (2)
#281 12:57 Zinto votes ntndeacon (2)
#289 13:23 bhlloy votes Mauboy (3)
#291 13:39 MrBug votes Mauboy (4)
#302 14:47 Thomkal votes Danny (1)
#316 15:21 mauboy votes ntndeacon (3)
#321 15:28 Lathum votes Zinto (1)
#339 16:28 Narcizo unvotes mauboy (3)
#339 16:28 Narcizo votes Bhlloy (1)
#342 16:50 JAG unvotes ntndeacon (2)
#342 16:50 JAG votes Bhlloy (2)
#348 16:56 ntndeacon unvotes MrBug (1)
#348 16:56 ntndeacon votes Zinto (2)


#360 18:02 Darth Vilus votes mauboy (4)
#363 18:16 Jackal votes Zinto (3)
#371 18:39 dzilla votes Zinto (4)
#385 19:03 mckerney votes mauboy (5)
#389 19:08 Abe votes Narcizo (1)
#391 19:10 Chief votes No Lynch (1)
#409 19:35 Chubby votes Danny (2)
#411 19:41 Tyrith votes mauboy (6)
#412 19:41 J23 votes Danny (3)

#434 20:10 Bhlloy unvotes mauboy (5)
#434 20:10 Bhlloy votes Danny (4)
#445 20:29 Zinto invalid vote for Danny

#478 21:48 Hoops unvotes MrBug (0)
#478 21:48 Hoops votes Bhlloy (3)
#483 21:49 mauboy unvotes ntndeacon (1)
#483 21:49 mauboy votes zinto (5)
#508 21:59 Danny votes Danny (5)
#509 21:59 mauboy unvotes zinto (4)
#509 21:59 mauboy votes Danny (6)

1 ntn - zinto (281)
5 mauboy - packerfanatic (201), mrbug708 (291), darth vilus (360), mckerney (385), tyrith (411)
6 danny - thomkal (302), J23 (412), bhlloy (434), chubby (514), danny (508), mauboy (509)
4 zinto - lathum (321), ntndeacon (348), the jackal (363), dzilla7 (371)
3 bhlloy - narcizo (339), JAG (342), hoopsguy (478)
1 narcizo - abe sargent (389)
1 no lynch - chief rum (391)


In retrospect I should have been more suspicious of hoops for putting his vote on Bhlloy when he did, as well as the wondering whether to vote for Danny thing. Mr Voting Tactics that he is he should have put his vote on Zinto or mau.

I did, eventually, work out that Tyrith's vote actually pointed to him being a wolf but it took me a very long time to get there. Danny's play on day one really confused the issue as we feared - although it wasn't apparent to begin with. I guess DV's vote falls in the same category as Tyrith's - can either push a villager as a challenger for the wolf and risk looking bad or stick your vote on the wolf when you have to leave.

Question to the wolves - how planned were the two votes on mau? Did you feel forced into making the votes or was it part of a plan?

[Tyrith]

We didn't have a team wide plan on the day 1 vote. I put myself in a bit of a corner with the list of UTR people I said I'd vote for early on in the day, which had mau's name on it - I figured if I went away from my clearly stated voting policy it would be an obvious tell. mau had already taken on a lot of water at that point, so I figured we weren't going to get much more than a clean record out of him, and I wanted mine to be as clean as I could get it.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chubby

i got scanned twice and you still fell for the obvious fake reveal???

I should note that NTN's scan of you failed because of the corrupted judge.

[Autumn]

Thanks for the compliments guys. I'm glad people enjoyed it. I really loved writing up the ruleset and then loved watching you guys play with it even more. There were a lot of things that never cropped up that I would have loved to have seen (Two Face especially, and more corruption), but there were great things I didn't anticipate like the show down at the end, and Danny pegging Gordon and the Batman for his game. That was movie material right there.

The sequel is already pretty much written up. It will be using a very different set of mechanics to get a different feel. Read the epilogue and you'll see where it's going ...

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

We didn't have a team wide plan on the day 1 vote. I put myself in a bit of a corner with the list of UTR people I said I'd vote for early on in the day, which had mau's name on it - I figured if I went away from my clearly stated voting policy it would be an obvious tell. mau had already taken on a lot of water at that point, so I figured we weren't going to get much more than a clean record out of him, and I wanted mine to be as clean as I could get it.

Pretty much why I felt I had to vote for dwardzala on day three in Abe's last game - and sort of what I was saying in the speculation thread.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

In retrospect I should have been more suspicious of hoops for putting his vote on Bhlloy when he did, as well as the wondering whether to vote for Danny thing. Mr Voting Tactics that he is he should have put his vote on Zinto or mau.

I was more confident of Hoops as a wolf after the first couple of days than I think I have been in any WW game, and I think I posted something to that effect in the thread before I was arrested. Just a shame I wasn't around to do anything about it. It was absolute agony watching him fake reveal late on as I knew he was lying and for a while CF wasn't around to counter him. I thought CF was gonna leave it too late and hoops would get you guys around for sure, I literally didn't enter the thread all day because it was painful

Hoops - what was the logic behind that fake reveal? You had to have known that role was in the game and would counter you... did you guys want to hit the seer to take him out of endgame and figured the #'s favored you even if you lost a wolf?

Great game Autumn... sorry I screwed up your two face plans with my late reveal.

[Autumn]

I thought you revealed soon enough, Bhlloy, just bad luck I guess with who was in thread that night. I was very surprised you still got hung. Makes for good sequel material though. All I could think was, imagine how pissed Harvey Dent would be, getting sent to prison as a mobster unfairly. and imagine the welcome he'd get in there.

To sort of answer Hoops' question, I know he suggested to me that some extra roles listed that weren't in the game would have given more wiggle room for fake reveals. I think he felt he wouldn't get away with anything other than a role we knew was in game.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I'd bet money that hoops is a wolf. I can't think of somebody who has pinged me so much in the first two days of a WW game

Yeah, here we go. I'm sure I make outlandish statements like this all the time but god damn it, listen to me when I'm right people

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Hoops - what was the logic behind that fake reveal? You had to have known that role was in the game and would counter you... did you guys want to hit the seer to take him out of endgame and figured the #'s favored you even if you lost a wolf?

Fake reveal - I fought as hard as I could that day without going with a fake reveal. But if I was going down, I wanted to flush out the Dawes role. I tried to be as consistent with how I would reveal - later in the day but not too late - and provide an explanation of the role that sounded useful, but not uber-great. I don't think I personally have great credibility with too-good-to-be-true roles, so I almost always try to establish some level of vulnerability (didn't go straight seer, didn't try to clear everyone to gain their trust) to make it sound more believable coming from me.

Obviously the reveal would have been handled much differently if the Harvey Dent character (or any other named roles) were in the game. Also, I didn't leave any "bread crumbs" this game, similar to what Abe did with Batman. Most of the time as a wolf I'll leave something in posts early in the game to help me with a fake reveal. But I was pretty time constrained early in the game this time (especially first two days) and didn't want to try and force something on Day 3 or beyond. That made things a smidge harder for me.

Final thoughts on the reveal - I was fully prepared to be countered that day and was surprised it never came. Once I got through the day, I naturally had to push my luck the following day. But I made the reveal of Darth as wolf with the idea that I would lose the counter-reveal showdown. I don't think I've ever done that before, but the idea was that I would buy Darth some trust that I didn't think he had when I died and it appeared he was the guy I wanted to railroad in the endgame. Plus if the seer decided to "check my work" he would be hitting the cunning wolf.

The part I had not fully considered there was that Batman would be able to block our kill on the seer, which would then leave the seer to scan another player and leave the non-cunning wolf really isolated. That part was a nightmare, and I felt terrible when I saw that unfold after I was gone.