Werewolf CXXXIII - The Dark Knight - MOBSTERS WIN

[hoopsguy]

I changed that scan order over in my head about 5 times in the ten minutes after processing the lynch results. Very glad to finally end up where I did.

[Tyrith]

Well, this obviously changes some things. Makes me wonder what the heck is going on, for sure.

Why is hoops still alive? The wolves thinking that Batman can protect Dawes? And Abe is also still alive? I'm not sure I get it.

That said, hoops is apparently our seer until proven otherwise. If you managed to hose the village again, bravo buddy.

[mckerney]

Vote Darth Vilus

[Tyrith]

hoops, why DV? I can't really recall him being someone you have mentioned so far.

[hoopsguy]

Well, it was actually Chubby's posts earlier in day that steered me in that direction - DV was his original wolf vote.

I knew that the two singletons (me + NTN/Crimson) were both good and I still thought that J23 was a villager. So that left Chief Rum (who I was convinced was bad, to the point I didn't scan him - weirdest night kill ever) and the mauboy voters. I've been suspecting that they had two mobsters on mauboy, so I picked one that had me a little nervous with his lack of decisiveness during today's vote. He felt like a wolf looking for a safe place to land.

[Darth Vilus]

Why the hell would they kill chief? With the bodyguard gone and a batman and seer reveal? Hoops has to be lying, i can't think of any other logical scenario.

Unless the mob did that on purpose so we would lynch hoops and they would get another kill in? Gutsy move this one, I dont believe it though. Why? Because I'm not a wolf, so I know hoops is lying

Vote Hoopsguy

[Abe Sargent]

Vote Darth Vilus

[Darth Vilus]

ok, hold up guys hold up a second. think this through first. We have abe claiming batman yeah? we can all agree on that, and believe he is indeed batman since he handed us the joker. Now we have Hoops claiming to be the seer? Ok, not bad.

Wouldnt the wolves try to kill one of these two tonight? They have two of their biggest threats right in front of them and they dont take the shot?

[Darth Vilus]

Does that make sens to anyone around here? be honest

[Tyrith]

This is just way too convenient for my taste. If hoops is what he claims to be, we're golden, so a contrarian stance seems to be okay here.

There are still two people who haven't been in the thread since hoops revealed. He revealed an hour before the deadline. What if this is a wolf in endgame scenario? If we lynch a villager today and Batman can't save us tonight, don't we just lose if there are the number of wolves we're expecting? Since we don't have anything else to think about, we should consider what we're going to do if someone comes over the top of hoops here.

Honestly, considering we just lynched another villager, I'm pretty tempted to go with the second man in here, which I usually hate doing. Either everything is very straightforward here, or someone is being too clever.

[Darth Vilus]

look at hoops record, he led a run on dzilla, Zinto, and Chubby yeah? and all of them came back as villagers! hoops is looking to go endgame now, im convinced of it. he picks a villager (me in this case) and says he found a wolf. you all kill me and then the wolves get their night kill. that brings it to 3-3 assuming there are 3 wolves left yeah? that's endgame my friends

[Tyrith]

I'm not going to even bother voting for DV right now - either no one is going to counter on hoops and my vote won't matter, or someone is going to counter hoops and I'll make a choice then.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

Why the hell would they kill chief? With the bodyguard gone and a batman and seer reveal? Hoops has to be lying, i can't think of any other logical scenario.

Unless the mob did that on purpose so we would lynch hoops and they would get another kill in? Gutsy move this one, I dont believe it though. Why? Because I'm not a wolf, so I know hoops is lying

Vote Hoopsguy

In my opinion, the Chief kill reveals that there is more than one wolf on mauboy Day one.

If they kill one of the MrBug, Mckerney, Darth V, Tyrith, then it reduces their hiding space.

My previous working assumption was one in that group, and two in the Big Five, (Chubby, J23, CF, hoops, CR).

However, they choose to take out CR, and Chubby is out, and hoops and CF are clear, supposedly. That leaves just J23. Why leave him on an island if he's a wolf?

It would be ballsy of them to all pile on Sal, but at least two were on him now. I figured they'd take out hoops, or one of the mauboy voters. However, I think in retrospect, they feel they have to not drop their group, so they went with CR or J23.

If I were hoopsguy, and I were a wolf with an uncontroverted fake reveal, I would have taken out a mauboy voter, to at least remove someone in the circle of trust. (Assuming mauboy has 2 or fewer wolves on him.) Then we'd spend the day debating J23 or CR, and lynch one, and tomorrow, 3-3 and its game.

This doesn;t make sense for hoops as a wolf. It also doesn't make sense, period. It's not the first kill that;s come out of the blue, though.



Why not try me or hoops? If you fear my awesome night powers, why not take out CF? I don;t get it either way.

Remember when they took out Thomkal, despite him having several votes earlier in the day? I don;t get that either.


Maybe they have numbers, and are just trying safe kills get us to endgame as swiftly as possible. However, if they had 4, well, with 8 people left, we wouldn't still be playing. It's got to be 5-3.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

ok, hold up guys hold up a second. think this through first. We have abe claiming batman yeah? we can all agree on that, and believe he is indeed batman since he handed us the joker. Now we have Hoops claiming to be the seer? Ok, not bad.

Wouldnt the wolves try to kill one of these two tonight? They have two of their biggest threats right in front of them and they dont take the shot?

I can't be night killed. Both the Joker and I have stated that in thread.

[Darth Vilus]

seems like a last ditch effort to pull aout a win for the wolves. Wolves, mob whatever. Ask yourself this question, if you were a wolf and you knew who batman and the seer were would you allow them to live?

[Darth Vilus]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I can't be night killed. Both the Joker and I have stated that in thread.

Well why leave the seer alive?

[Darth Vilus]

say hoops is telling the truth and i am a wolf. Wouldnt i kill hoops (knowing that he is the seer) to prevent this very thing from happening?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

seems like a last ditch effort to pull aout a win for the wolves. Wolves, mob whatever. Ask yourself this question, if you were a wolf and you knew who batman and the seer were would you allow them to live?

I just did my quick analysis - I would't have killed CR one way or the other.

I can think of two reasons to kill CR:

1 - It puts more pressure on hoopsguy from two angles:

If at least one wolf voted for non-mauboy, then J23, hoops, and CF have to be where it is. I don;t think ANYONE here would argue that all three wolves voted their leader on D1. It's highly unlikely. If J23 turns up a villager, it puts a massive pressure on hoops as the numbers fall.


If they took out CF, which would have been my plan assuming I didn't want hoops, then it sort of backs up hoops as the seer. If they don;t touch hoops or CF, then suddenly, we cast in doubt hoops's claim. If they then have a false claim later today by a wolf, then we might toss hoops aside for the new person. It leads to doubt. There is value there.

Plus, they may fear the Bat still. They must know that he has some ability besides anti-Joker-ness. Perhaps they fear The Bat's ability to protect his own love interest?

Those are all reasons to take out CR. I still wouldn;t have made the play (if I were hoopsguy, and a wolf, and I wanted to make a ballsy play, I fake reveal as a new seer, claim someone who actually is a villager is such, and then night kill them, to help verify my story - they didn;t take the ballsy path or the tame path of hurting a mauboy voter.)

[Darth Vilus]

ok, my head hurts. Ill check in tomorrow before work

[Tyrith]

I don't know what to think anymore other than hoping that hoops is good and this really is as easy as it seems. I want to see what the missing people from last night have to say first, though.

[Abe Sargent]

Okay hoops, let's make Tyrith and DV happy. Tell me about your scan. How does it work as an ADA? What did you do last night to discover that DV was a mob member?

[Abe Sargent]

Oh, and also, what did you do to see CF was not mob? Just in case we have a Cunning out there, I'm interested. What was the flavor?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Oh, and also, what did you do to see CF was not mob? Just in case we have a Cunning out there, I'm interested. What was the flavor?

From the descriptions it wouldn't surprise me if The Chechen is a cunning, so we probably have that out there.

At this point DV has to be hoping that either CF or MrBug are Rachel Dawes, or claim to be. I think everyone else has been around since the reveal. Unfortunately there's a good chance one of them is a wolf so I expect we'll see one of them claim to be Dawes.

[J23]

Vote DV

[CrimsonFox]

Why is it that no one understands my hints except for the wolves? I'm so pissed right now because I'm still in midmove. Had to leave at 4:30 to make it to my storage facility and drive to my newer place eons away. Hate this part of ww for sure, like. Way to get had guys. hoops is a wolf.
vote hoops
vote nightfall

[CrimsonFox]

I know I can't act but I"m eye candy and I have big knockers and I inherited the Rachel role from an inactive seer. I'm Rachel whatshername. Was going to reveal before I left if I needed but I didn't need. hoops is full of shit and I'm voting for him every chance I get from now on.

ntn missed ALL of his scans except for one due to inactivity. The one he DID make was blocked by the (laugh) honorable judge Zinto.
(thankyouverymuch)

So I inherited a seer with zero useful info.

I scanned chubby first and he was clean and couldn't reveal that because I had to leave.

Last night I scanned J23 and he is clean as a whistle. And now that they took care of CR for us, the rest SHOULD be easy as long as you do the math.

safe in my book now: abe, tyrith, mckerney, j23
and possibly dv now that hoops has voted him. but now that hoops has voted dv it may just be the last two wolves voting for each other.

IN any case hoops and Bug are the fucking wolves so batman could you please set your batphaser to shake and bake and turn them into crispy critters.

[Abe Sargent]

CF - are you claiming that Rachel Dawes was a seer from the start?

[CrimsonFox]

and to be more specific:

Abe is batman - that's probably not refutable although I have to WONDER now if the Dark Knight really IS dark.

j23 - he was JUST scanned and is clean.

tyrith was clean in my book due to his votes and his hoops vote makes him definite clean.

mckerney I'll give a pass to for the same reason.


Bug has avoided answering questions and has crappy votes. WOlf
hoops...well fake reveal = real wolf.

[CrimsonFox]

i can't quote pms but all i know from pms is that each night i can check into one person to see what they are. The exception is I can't tell whether they are corrupt or not.
And that I know who Harvey Dent is from the start as well...bhlloy....due to my *pant pant* INTIMATE relationship with him.

[Abe Sargent]

Same questions for you and hoops - how does the flavor work?

What are you doing that allows you to be the seer? What did you do last night, for instance?

[Abe Sargent]

Reasons why I buy hoops: Why would he kill off CR? If CF was really a seer, why did Autumn wait to get a new one? Remember when Autumn asked if we should get a change then or the following day? If that role was a seer, I wouldn't ask that question, I would get a new person in as fast as possible.


Reason why I buy CF: Why would hoops clear someone, and then they fake reveal? Are we assuming that CF just happens to be the Cunning and hoops (as a real seer) just happened to scan and come back, and then the wolves decided to just happen to use their Cunning to fake reveal vs a real seer?


I want to know everything, so I can figure out what's what. Give me the details as to the flavor of your mechanics, as much as possible. Since only one of you is telling the truth, perhaps we can find our answers there.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Ooookay, I'm not sure what to think anymore.

You are confused because hoops just led you on a lynch parade. I guess if Joker can do it, the mob can too.

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Pay dirt - got a wolf! Can't see any reason to play it slow in this spot. Thank you for the opportunity to get one more in before closing up shop.

VOTE DARTH VILUS

I see...really. This and DV's responses clears him for two more days for me.

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Well, this obviously changes some things. Makes me wonder what the heck is going on, for sure.

Why is hoops still alive? The wolves thinking that Batman can protect Dawes? And Abe is also still alive? I'm not sure I get it.

That said, hoops is apparently our seer until proven otherwise. If you managed to hose the village again, bravo buddy.

You are confused because it was all a lie. Just like the cake.

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

Why the hell would they kill chief? With the bodyguard gone and a batman and seer reveal? Hoops has to be lying, i can't think of any other logical scenario.

Don't know why chief but it matches their pattern of clearing out the other candidate. Yes you are correct DV but you should have said that BEFORE the deadline.

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

Does that make sens to anyone around here? be honest

No, it does not. There, that was honest.

Originally Posted by Tyrith

This is just way too convenient for my taste. If hoops is what he claims to be, we're golden, so a contrarian stance seems to be okay here.

That's because it is...or was.

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

seems like a last ditch effort to pull aout a win for the wolves. Wolves, mob whatever. Ask yourself this question, if you were a wolf and you knew who batman and the seer were would you allow them to live?

Again, it was a last ditch effort and it worked because I had no choice but to leave the house. Moving sucks.

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

say hoops is telling the truth and i am a wolf. Wouldnt i kill hoops (knowing that he is the seer) to prevent this very thing from happening?

Let's not say that, because he isn't. Now that second part. Yes you would've killed hoops but he is still alive. Batman can't save anything. (not that I know but he HASN'T saved anyone from death so I am only assuming that he can't.) The bodyguard is dead.

Originally Posted by Tyrith

I don't know what to think anymore other than hoping that hoops is good and this really is as easy as it seems. I want to see what the missing people from last night have to say first, though.

NOthing ever is...

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Bug has avoided answering questions and has crappy votes. WOlf
hoops...well fake reveal = real wolf.

You are pretty far out there. I don't believe I avoided any questions, but feel free to quote any that I didn't answer. Shoot, I was accused of being a wolf for throwing a vote on Mauboy and then a wolf for not placing a throwaway vote on another person. I can't win can I?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by mckerney

From the descriptions it wouldn't surprise me if The Chechen is a cunning, so we probably have that out there.

At this point DV has to be hoping that either CF or MrBug are Rachel Dawes, or claim to be. I think everyone else has been around since the reveal. Unfortunately there's a good chance one of them is a wolf so I expect we'll see one of them claim to be Dawes.

Not Rachel Dawes, sorry

[Danny]

I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I know I can't act but I"m eye candy and I have big knockers and I inherited the Rachel role from an inactive seer. I'm Rachel whatshername. Was going to reveal before I left if I needed but I didn't need. hoops is full of shit and I'm voting for him every chance I get from now on.

ntn missed ALL of his scans except for one due to inactivity. The one he DID make was blocked by the (laugh) honorable judge Zinto.
(thankyouverymuch)

So I inherited a seer with zero useful info.

I scanned chubby first and he was clean and couldn't reveal that because I had to leave.

Last night I scanned J23 and he is clean as a whistle. And now that they took care of CR for us, the rest SHOULD be easy as long as you do the math.

safe in my book now: abe, tyrith, mckerney, j23
and possibly dv now that hoops has voted him. but now that hoops has voted dv it may just be the last two wolves voting for each other.

IN any case hoops and Bug are the fucking wolves so batman could you please set your batphaser to shake and bake and turn them into crispy critters.

Interesting. If you are the Seer, you certainly would quantify anyone as "safe" unless you actually scanned them. You wouldn't have called anyone specific wolves unless you know for sure which, as a villager, makes me think you are lying.

[Chubby]

lol

[hoopsguy]

Well, looks like the wolves are going to be making their stand today. Which is fine, although I'm not sure how much availability I'll have today for back-and-forth in the thread. So I'll get as much info posted now as I can.

The scan PMs were pretty short at sweet. I was told that I was confident about being able to bring a case against Darth Vilus, while the Crimson scan indicated that I didn't think we had enough evidence to get a conviction.

I'm making the pretty safe assumption that Crimson is the cunning wolf. With that in mind, I don't have any "citizen" scans that I can compare against his results. But I expect they would be quite similar to the ones that I got for Crimson.

[hoopsguy]

Crimson's reveal - as full seer - gives you one citizen (J23) that was already a consensus citizen. I think he is taking advantage of the fact that he took over for an inactive player to try and create a scenario where he doesn't have to give you any meaningful info.

I'll try to respond to any further questions as much as I can today - I expect to have some Internet access from my client, but I'll also be working pretty closely with my manager so my time to be on this site might be a bit limited.

[Autumn]

Good Morning Gotham

darth vilus - mckerney (1903), abe sargent (1907), J23 (1924)
hoopsguy - darth vilus (1906), crimsonfox (1925)

nightfall - crimsonfox (1925)

[J23]

At least Abe might now believe that I'm actually a villager!

I'm leaning towards believing Hoops's reveal, but unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past him to make up a convincing reveal like this.

[J23]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

safe in my book now: abe, tyrith, mckerney, j23
and possibly dv now that hoops has voted him. but now that hoops has voted dv it may just be the last two wolves voting for each other.

Why are tyrith and mckerney safe in your book now?

[Tyrith]

So, in one corner, we have hoops's reveal. It took place late in the day, which is understandable considering he's a seer. It's possible that he could have just come up with some other ability to cover the fact that he was a seer, but out and out saying it makes it more likely that he gets to live, realistically, to put us in the sort of mind games we're in now, whereas there's no incentive to keep a less powerful but roled villager around.

The state of the game when he revealed -

Known good - Abe
Claimed to be vanilla - J23, Chubby
Unknown, potentially Dawes - Tyrith, Chief Rum, CrimsonFox, Mrbug, Darth Vilus

Guess which group wasn't around between his reveal and the lynch?

Now, this brings up Abe's point about why CR was killed last night. Honestly, I don't really have a clue. Batman fears, maybe, or trying for some overly complicated mind screw play. It does shrink his hiding space, and possibly counterfeit his reveal, though.

My honest question is what would you guys have done if CF had been available to come over the top of hoops yesterday? Because, realistically, the availability means that is pretty much what happened. And I for one would have still been killing hoops.

Maybe I'm just nuts, but I honestly think CF is more likely to be good than hoops. And I'm not really sure what hoops being a wolf would say about DV.

Well, we have all day to figure it out. I'd like to come to a consensus before the deadline, if we can, to stop the wolves from taking the choice out of our hands.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[J23]

The lack of a kill on Hoops (or a blocked kill) really has me wondering about CF's counter-reveal. If I'm a wolf in that position, I try to kill the seer and test if batman can block it or not. It's too important not to risk given how lost the village has been for the most part this game.

[J23]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Why is it that no one understands my hints except for the wolves? I'm so pissed right now because I'm still in midmove. Had to leave at 4:30 to make it to my storage facility and drive to my newer place eons away. Hate this part of ww for sure, like. Way to get had guys. hoops is a wolf.
vote hoops
vote nightfall

what hints did you drop CF?

[hoopsguy]

Tyrith, if I'm trying to steamroll people with the fake seer reveal it comes with 10-15 minutes left. If that had happened, I think you would have some latitude to say that I was "ducking people".

But I cam out something like 75-90 minutes before the deadline, after fighting all day to try and win the vote without a reveal because I was worried about it being a death sentence for me at night.

I think it is a huge stretch to suggest that I was hoping that all the people you listed wouldn't be in the thread to counter my reveal. Most people that are involved with the game make their way back as the deadline approaches.

I'm not sure if you are being intentionally obtuse here or if you are the third wolf given the blinders you've had on with me over the past two days. But for today I don't care at all - we've got two wolves out in the open and I intend to pursue them. If you don't want to do that, so be it. I feel like I wasted a lot of time trying to persuade you yesterday. If I haven't by now, I don't really know what else I'm going to be able to give you.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - the last post comes off a little more harsh than I want. I'm not interested in killing discussion here today - I just want to feel like people are at least giving some level of consideration to the stuff I take time typing. And I haven't felt that way with Tyrith's posts over the last 24 hours.

We're almost certainly in an end-game scenario here so obviously this vote is really important. I'm thrilled to still be alive, and even more so to actually have a wolf to provide ... two since it seems a certainty that Crimson is the cunning wolf.

[J23]

Hoops, why do you think they killed CR last night?

[Tyrith]

It was pretty clear to me that three of the people there - myself, CR, and Mrbug - probably weren't going to be back before the lynch. With the general pace of this game, as a wolf do you wait until 15-20 minutes before the deadline to reveal and then just hope enough people are around to fix it? Wouldn't you, as a wolf, want your reveal to be as much like the reveal you would make as a villager as possible?

This is what it comes down to for me - I think you make the exact same reveal as actual Dawes, or as a wolf. And I think as a wolf you make that reveal almost every time. Since you've been countered, it goes back to who did I think is more likely to be a wolf before all the reveals started, you or CF? And thus my vote is where it is.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by J23

Hoops, why do you think they killed CR last night?

I've got no idea - I fully expected to find me or Abe dead. I can't even think of any mechanics they have that would really explain it.

Maybe they wanted to counter me today, but it sure seems like it would be easier just to do it yesterday prior to deadline or snuff me at night. Bypassing the two high-value targets makes no sense at all to me.