Parents send kid back to Russia

[Sgran]

Adopted boy, 7, sent back alone to Russia - Russia- msnbc.com

The long and short: parents adopt a 6-year old from Russia. Kid is a terror (in their words), so they ship him back for a refund and claim they were lied to about his mental health. Talk about naive. Did they really think they were going to get an angel from a far-east Russian orphanage? The chance that that kid had mental problems was very high.

I feel bad for these parents in a way, who probably had good intentions (and it surely wasn't cheap) but what a ridiculous solution.

[Apathetic Lurker]

I dont feel bad for those parents one bit.... This is not like adopting a cat or dog from the SPCA..This is a human. They should have/could have done more research into who they were adopting. Now this poor kid is going to have to deal with even more rejection issues and there probably be issues with him acting out his violent behaviour more..

And why the hell cant those idiots adopt in the US? There are a lot of kids here needing families too...

[GrantDawg]

My wife's cousin adopted two little girls from Russia about 15 years ago. They were sisters and living in an orphange where they were severely neglected. They were five and seven at the time, but both looked at least 2 years younger because of malnutrition. She couldn't have children, and met the girls on a mission trip, and they melted her heart.

The cousin homeschooled the girls, and did spend lots of money on them. She was a bit of a smotherer, and never really treated them their ages. I met them several times, and they seemed sweet and well behaved. Sadly, their adopted mom started getting sick. She was losing weight (and she was already very thin), and having strange bouts of weakness. The doctors could not figure out what was causing her symptoms. She finally ended up in the hospital near death.

The cause? The little girls were putting anti-freeze in her food trying to kill her. They very nearly succeeded. They were 12 and 14 at the time. It was actually the younger one that seemed to be the ring-leader of the two. It was a spooky-scary-creepy situation. Both girls ened up institutionalized. They are in there early 20's now, and I have no idea where they are. There was talk they might be sent back to Russia, but I don't know if that happened. Her cousin will not even talk about them.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

My wife's cousin adopted two little girls from Russia about 15 years ago. They were sisters and living in an orphange where they were severely neglected. They were five and seven at the time, but both looked at least 2 years younger because of malnutrition. She couldn't have children, and met the girls on a mission trip, and they melted her heart.

The cousin homeschooled the girls, and did spend lots of money on them. She was a bit of a smotherer, and never really treated them their ages. I met them several times, and they seemed sweet and well behaved. Sadly, their adopted mom started getting sick. She was losing weight (and she was already very thin), and having strange bouts of weakness. The doctors could not figure out what was causing her symptoms. She finally ended up in the hospital near death.

The cause? The little girls were putting anti-freeze in her food trying to kill her. They very nearly succeeded. They were 12 and 14 at the time. It was actually the younger one that seemed to be the ring-leader of the two. It was a spooky-scary-creepy situation. Both girls ened up institutionalized. They are in there early 20's now, and I have no idea where they are. There was talk they might be sent back to Russia, but I don't know if that happened. Her cousin will not even talk about them.

Damn........that sounds like a lifetime movie. That is some scary shit.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Damn........that sounds like a lifetime movie. That is some scary shit.

Yeah. But then I just did a google to see if I can find any stories about it (I know at the time it got some local coverage but not much more), and found numbers of stories of this happening all over the country. It is very dangerous to adopt a child (especially an older child it seems) from overseas. Fetal alcohol symdrome, detachment disorders, PDS, all can be hard to detect in a young child until it is too late. I know at the time they said the older girl might be able to live a somewhat normal life someday, but the younger girl would probably always need to be institutionalized.

[Sgran]

When i said i felt sorry for the parents, I meant that I believe their act of adopting a child, especially an older child, was noble, and it must have been heartbreaking to have their graciousness greeted with spite. But they should have done their homework about child psychology and realized that there was a good chance that the child they'd receive, given his age, would have a behavioral disorder. For crying out loud, this is a 7-year old boy.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Damn........that sounds like a lifetime movie. That is some scary shit.

I agree. Spooky.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

My wife's cousin adopted two little girls from Russia about 15 years ago. They were sisters and living in an orphange where they were severely neglected. They were five and seven at the time, but both looked at least 2 years younger because of malnutrition. She couldn't have children, and met the girls on a mission trip, and they melted her heart.

The cousin homeschooled the girls, and did spend lots of money on them. She was a bit of a smotherer, and never really treated them their ages. I met them several times, and they seemed sweet and well behaved. Sadly, their adopted mom started getting sick. She was losing weight (and she was already very thin), and having strange bouts of weakness. The doctors could not figure out what was causing her symptoms. She finally ended up in the hospital near death.

The cause? The little girls were putting anti-freeze in her food trying to kill her. They very nearly succeeded. They were 12 and 14 at the time. It was actually the younger one that seemed to be the ring-leader of the two. It was a spooky-scary-creepy situation. Both girls ened up institutionalized. They are in there early 20's now, and I have no idea where they are. There was talk they might be sent back to Russia, but I don't know if that happened. Her cousin will not even talk about them.

That is just insane, it's hard to imagine that mentality in a child that young, though coming from the situation they were in it is easy to see how they were so seriously damaged.

[JPhillips]

Russia has a long history of fetal alcohol problems in adoptees. However, any reputable agency is going to tell parents that before they even begin any formal process. I'm sure the child in question was difficult to handle, but this is the commitment you're making when you decide to adopt a child of that age. Even if there was a valid reason to terminate the adoption, the way it was handled is unforgivable.

As for domestic adoption, it's a very difficult process. Birth mothers pick the adoptive parents and it can create a very negative atmosphere where perspective parents are competing with each other. Most of the time the birth mother is a teenager who is drawn to pretty faces and large bank accounts. It's possible to get a child within months, but it's also possible to wait years and still never be selected. Given the age of the Russian child adopted I would guess that the parents were older or had a medical condition that would have made domestic adoption a very dicey proposition.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

As for domestic adoption, it's a very difficult process. Birth mothers pick the adoptive parents and it can create a very negative atmosphere where perspective parents are competing with each other. Most of the time the birth mother is a teenager who is drawn to pretty faces and large bank accounts. It's possible to get a child within months, but it's also possible to wait years and still never be selected.

Yup, it's an expensive, lengthy process, and much easier for folks to adopt overseas so they do.

[JPhillips]

International adoption is still expensive and lengthy, but it's much more certain. It took us 2+ years and over 20k to adopt from China, but there was never any doubt as to where we were in line and that eventually we'd get a child.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

International adoption is still expensive and lengthy, but it's much more certain. It took us 2+ years and over 20k to adopt from China, but there was never any doubt as to where we were in line and that eventually we'd get a child.

Which is fine..But I bet if you adopted child started showing any signs of abnormal behavior you would deal with it here, not ship him/her back to China..

[JPhillips]

Absolutely. With Russia in particular you have to understand and be ready for children with fetal alcohol syndrome, especially children older than infants. There's often a reason why the older children haven't been adopted previously.

[Castlerock]

I heard about this last night from my wife. I could not talk to my wife about it because I knew I would just explode. And I really should not have opened this thread.

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

I dont feel bad for those parents one bit.... This is not like adopting a cat or dog from the SPCA..This is a human. They should have/could have done more research into who they were adopting. Now this poor kid is going to have to deal with even more rejection issues and there probably be issues with him acting out his violent behaviour more..

I am not defending these parents one bit. What they did is unforgivable. Completely and absolutely unacceptable. But it is simply not possible to "do more research into who they were adopting". There is no way to know how a child will adjust to a family. Two children in identical situations can and do have completely different reactions. It is a leap of faith.

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

And why the hell cant those idiots adopt in the US? There are a lot of kids here needing families too...

Well, there are lots of reasons. For one, domestic adoption is very uncertain. Most children are not legal free for adoption until the *very* end of the process. Often that is *after* they are home living with you. I could not lose my child. It would destroy me. I could not take that chance. And there are lots of kids all over the world who need families. I have met many. Trust me, they are not any less deserving of a 'forever family'.

Sincerely,
An Idiot

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yup, it's an expensive, lengthy process, and much easier for folks to adopt overseas so they do.

I would not say it is any easier. Just different. Any adoption is an expensive, lengthy process. We ended up spending far more money adopting from Russia, than a domestic adoption would have cost. Our first was well over $50,000. The second, just over 40. We went overseas because of the (relative) certainty. Our children were legally free for adoption before our referral.

-----------------

As for these despicable people, I have only contempt. I feel awful for that poor child. Where was their agency? They were home for only a few months. I don't know who it was yet but where was the support? How could they give us so fast? It (very generally) takes about a year (or more) for a child to adjust to a family. You CANNOT just give up. My daughter hated me for more than 6 months before we turned the corner. Now she adores me. Even if she hated me forever, I stood before a judge and swore I would be her "dad".

And these awful people have done more damage than just to this little boy. This is the kind of thing that can cause Russia to shut down international adoptions permanently or suspend things and make an already grueling process harder. International adoption is never popular in the original country. There is a large and very powerful political group that would love to shut it down. They have already cut the numbers drastically from a few years ago. Russian culture does not embrace adoption. Russia has some 700,000 children "without parental care". They face a bleak future as few are ever adopted.

-------------------------

As for the bad stories... those are the ones you read about on the news or on a message board. As an adoptive parent, you have to know what you are signing up for because there are "challenging" cases. Any even half-way-decent agency makes sure you understand. But there are thousands of happy families for every scary one you read about. We are life-long friends with several families that all adopted from Russia at about the same time. All very happy. You won't read about any of us as it's not "news".

[Greyroofoo]

I remember working at McDs we had a manager who had adopted twins. The guy and his wife took care of the kids for over a year. The teenage birth mom gave them.

However the birth-mother's mom decided she wanted custody and pursued a legal case to get the guardianship of the kids. She won and we now had a manager who was ready to snap. Not the guy you want around during rush-hour at McDs. He quit/was fired shortly after (I don't know the details).

Shitty thing to go through all around. I always wondered what happened to him.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

I would not say it is any easier. Just different. Any adoption is an expensive, lengthy process. We ended up spending far more money adopting from Russia, than a domestic adoption would have cost. Our first was well over $50,000. The second, just over 40. We went overseas because of the (relative) certainty. Our children were legally free for adoption before our referral.

That's insane. You're paying $50,000 to give a child a better life (on top of all of the money you'll spending during his 19-25 years of life raising him or her). Something is wrong with that situation.

[Castlerock]

Well, they did it. Medvedev (Russia's President) suspended adoptions indefinitely. It will likely be years if it is ever open again. There have been troubles in the last several years but it never went this high.

My heart breaks for all those kids of adoptable age right now. The door was just slammed on them.

This stupid family has caused unimaginable suffering to a great many people.

[JPhillips]

Wow. Not only do I feel for the thousands of children this condemns, but also the perspective parents. Amazing how much damage one family can do.

Between this and the extreme slowdown in China the options for adoption have decreased greatly in the four years since my wife and I adopted.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

Well, they did it. Medvedev (Russia's President) suspended adoptions indefinitely. It will likely be years if it is ever open again. There have been troubles in the last several years but it never went this high.

My heart breaks for all those kids of adoptable age right now. The door was just slammed on them.

This stupid family has caused unimaginable suffering to a great many people.

Shit, did Angelina Jolie get a Russian for her collection already?

[molson]

How can a country with such a terrible human rights record be all worked up over a kid traveling on a plane alone? What's Russia's angle here?

[Sgran]

Originally Posted by molson

How can a country with such a terrible human rights record be all worked up over a kid traveling on a plane alone? What's Russia's angle here?

I would say there are 3 forces in play here: politics, politics and politics

[JPhillips]

I don't know about Russia, but in China there is a strong faction that would like to close off international adoption because they believe it is beneath the status of China. If the same is true in Russia this is just enough to allow that faction to get what they want.

Castlerock would know better about Russia, though.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Sgran

I would say there are 3 forces in play here: politics, politics and politics

I would add a fourth: politics, politics, national pride, and politics.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't know about Russia, but in China there is a strong faction that would like to close off international adoption because they believe it is beneath the status of China. If the same is true in Russia this is just enough to allow that faction to get what they want.

Castlerock would know better about Russia, though.

International Adoption is not popular in any country that practices it. You are admitting that you cannot care for your children. I guarantee that if the US did international adoptions, there would be a very vocal group that would be against it. Russians don't like they are sending their citizens to go become American, Spanish, etc. I think these reasons apply to all countries, not just Russia.

Russia is also experiencing a population decline so sending children to other countries doesn't help.

The media in Russia is wildly sensational. More so than the US. This is front page news and will be every day for weeks. There have been several cases of Russian adoptees being harmed by their adoptive families in the last several years. Every one is front page news for weeks. I think the average Russian believes that a *great* many adopted kids end up abused in America. It is simply not true but they only hear the negative because it is sensational. There are politicians who will use this for political gain.

It is sad but some people would rather see a child grow up alone in an orphanage and then turned out on the street to a bleak future than allow them to be adopted into a loving family if that means leaving the country.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by molson

How can a country with such a terrible human rights record be all worked up over a kid traveling on a plane alone? What's Russia's angle here?

Well, it's a lot more than a kid traveling alone on an airplane. His parents abandoned him. You cannot do that to your child. They put him an an airplane and paid some guy $200 to pick him up at the airport and deliver him to the Russian ministry. If things get tough, you get help. As a parent, you cannot give up. Ever. It is your responsibility to fight for your child not send him alone across the ocean on a one way ticket.

In addition to my last post, Russia also feels powerless to make sure these kids are well cared for once they leave the country.

As soon as I heard this story, I knew things could get real bad. And Torry Hansen had to have known this. There is no way she could have gone through this process and not know this. If I fail to file one of the 3 annual reports to Russia, all adoptions performed by my entire agency are at risk because Russia can (and has) suspended agencies for this.

I hope she faces criminal charges for what she did to this boy. And I hope/wish there is some way for her to be held account for all the misery her actions will cause to thousands more.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

Well, it's a lot more than a kid traveling alone on an airplane. His parents abandoned him. You cannot do that to your child. They put him an an airplane and paid some guy $200 to pick him up at the airport and deliver him to the Russian ministry

I agree that it was bad behavior by our American sensibilities. I just don't buy that's it's that bad from the Russian perspective. At least, not bad enough to end the adoption program.

It just seems silly to me for Russia to get all worked up over this, considering the conditions many of it's orphan children live in.

As far as criminal prosecution, I know I've seen misdemeanor injury to child charges for stuff less than this. I don't think there's any crime here beyond that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Between this and the extreme slowdown in China the options for adoption have decreased greatly in the four years since my wife and I adopted.

Maybe just maybe, although however microscopically faint that hope can realistically be, this will provide an impetus to unfuck the system here in the US.

[Greyroofoo]

A question to the parents (especially of adopted children) of FOFC...

This child allegedly was violent and had "sever psychopathic issues". He also supposedly drew a picture of his house burning and threatened to burn down the house with people in it.

How do you handle the child if the allegations are true? I mean I'm not a parent nor do I want to be, but the prospect of dealing with a kid like that scares me to death. Also it honestly makes me show a little bit more sympathy for the woman than what she's getting.

[JPhillips]

The kid is seven, had been yanked from his home country and plopped into a place he didn't know. He only knew institutions before he was adopted, so even a best case circumstance would have been difficult. It's up to the parents and their agency to be prepared for this type of situation and get whatever professional help is needed to get through it.

If you aren't prepared for a close to worse case scenario when you adopt you should really reexamine whether or not you're ready.

[JonInMiddleGA]

So should potential adoptive parents just assume that this

"I was lied to and misled by the Russian Orphanage workers and director regarding his mental stability and other issues. ...

is going to be the case?

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So should potential adoptive parents just assume that this

"I was lied to and misled by the Russian Orphanage workers and director regarding his mental stability and other issues. ...

is going to be the case?

I would say yes. If you have your own kid biologically, there's no guarantee about what kind of mental stability issues your kid is going to have. It's a crapshoot. Even though you have more control when you're adopting (you can at least know if some obvious physical issues are present), there's still going to be a wild card element. But it's still parenthood, you don't get to change your mind, even if it ruins your life.

And if you just everything a russian orphanage worker tells you, that's a pretty big problem.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

A question to the parents (especially of adopted children) of FOFC...

This child allegedly was violent and had "sever psychopathic issues". He also supposedly drew a picture of his house burning and threatened to burn down the house with people in it.

How do you handle the child if the allegations are true? I mean I'm not a parent nor do I want to be, but the prospect of dealing with a kid like that scares me to death. Also it honestly makes me show a little bit more sympathy for the woman than what she's getting.

I don't know the child's background but he is 7 years old. There is a pretty good bet that he was:
a) placed in a baby home at birth and grew up without anyone who loved him.
b) removed from his birth family because it was a bad enough situation that living in an orphanage was deemed more desirable.

He lost everything he ever knew. The place, the culture, the language, the smells, the food, the people, the expectations. Everything. Even the clothes on his back. Kids react in many different ways.

I don't doubt that this child had serious problems. The family no doubt had nothing but the best intentions. I don't doubt that the last 8 months have been hell. I did a lot of research on attachment before our adoption and I was really scared about the possibility of some sort of attachment disorder. It can tear a family apart.

I only know what little I have read so, like always, I'm sure there is more to the story but...

I do question this diagnosis of “is violent and has severe psychopathic issues.” Is this a self-diagnosis? Her agency said they last visited in January and all was ok. Huh? That is the FIRST place you go for help. They deal with families all the time with every range of problem. They can help you or they can put you in touch with someone who can. I don't think this family reached out for help to anyone. Love is not always enough. Sometimes you need professional help.

In any case, 8 months home is simply too soon to give up. And even if they have tried professional help, and it was clear that this situation was not going to work, you work with your agency to find the best possible solution for your child. Whether that is an institution, or another family who is better able to deal with the situation, or something else.

And I also blame the agency if they never educated this family about the availability of help. That they had no idea that this family was coming apart is also stunning.

But what they did is unforgivable. For both the boy and the thousands of other lives that will be greatly affected by this action.

[JPhillips]

I don't think you have to assume they're lying, but you do need to be ready for far from ideal circumstances. When we got the first medical report on your daughter her head circumference was very low for her age. The orphanage had assured us that she was developmentally normal, but that number was a big worry to us. We weren't going to cancel the adoption, but we did talk to an adoption expert at Johns Hopkins and made some preliminary arrangements for what we would do if there were developmental issues.

For me it's about being prepared, especially if you're getting an older child. For many everything will work out fine and the transition and bondage issues will be manageable. For some, though, it's much more difficult and it's impossible to know what's coming your way until you are alone with the child. As I said above, if you can't handle anything but an ideal adoption, you should reexamine if you're ready.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't think you have to assume they're lying, but you do need to be ready for far from ideal circumstances. When we got the first medical report on your daughter her head circumference was very low for her age. The orphanage had assured us that she was developmentally normal, but that number was a big worry to us. We weren't going to cancel the adoption, but we did talk to an adoption expert at Johns Hopkins and made some preliminary arrangements for what we would do if there were developmental issues.

For me it's about being prepared, especially if you're getting an older child. For many everything will work out fine and the transition and bondage issues will be manageable. For some, though, it's much more difficult and it's impossible to know what's coming your way until you are alone with the child. As I said above, if you can't handle anything but an ideal adoption, you should reexamine if you're ready.

+1 on all points.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

I was really scared about the possibility of some sort of attachment disorder. It can tear a family apart.

But what they did is unforgivable. For both the boy and the thousands of other lives that will be greatly affected by this action.

I wonder if you read any of the work of one of my main mentors, Charles Zeanah. He is one of the world experts on Reactive Attachment Disorder and has done a ton of work with adoptive parents and kids in orphanages in Romania. Any parent who is adopting has to be ready for severe attachment disorders like you said, it doesn't always occur, but it is a significant risk of being raised during the first 9-18 months of life without a stable parental figure. Like you said, any parent who is adopting should be ready to get professional help if needed to help their child adjust to the new environment and family.

Our US adoption system is one of the most f'd up things I see with even horrible parents getting their kids back from some good loving foster families. Furthermore, I see too many parents who just want to give their adopted kids up when it doesn't work out like they expected (of course, there is selection bias as I see mostly the worst kids/parents) Anyone who goes through adoption and works to make it a good situation has my admiration. I agree with you, this family has done irreparable harm to this kid and many other people who would want to adopt children from Russia.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Castlerock

I do question this diagnosis of “is violent and has severe psychopathic issues.” Is this a self-diagnosis? Her agency said they last visited in January and all was ok. Huh? That is the FIRST place you go for help. They deal with families all the time with every range of problem. They can help you or they can put you in touch with someone who can. I don't think this family reached out for help to anyone. Love is not always enough. Sometimes you need professional help.

Of course this was the same agency that lied to the parent in the first place. How much faith would you put in them to help?


I just have to wonder how you handle a kid with a history of violence who threatens to kill you. I mean getting professional help is great and all but how can you give the professionals time to work and still get sleep at night worrying that you might never wake up?

[JPhillips]

Nothing excuses what this family did. The boy was seven years old and in an alien world. The extreme nature of what the boy did is uncommon, but the general issues aren't uncommon. If they couldn't handle the child there are legitimate outlets, but sticking him on a plan and paying off a guy in Moscow is unforgivable.

[TheOhioStateUniversity]