SCOTUS Gay Marriage Thread

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Not if it had the required support. Even if I was upset, I sure wouldn't call it unfair. I say it makes a lot more sense to have an even playing field. All the current system does is make secularism the dominant force. It doesn't, and couldn't ever possible, maintain the impossible goal of neutrality.

Secular is as neutral as you're going to get. This nation is getting more and more diverse, might as well get used to it.

[Brian Swartz]

I don't see the relevance. Would you like to enlighten me?

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Secular is as neutral as you're going to get. This nation is getting more and more diverse, might as well get used to it.

I embrace diversity. No problem getting used to it. But secular isn't neutral at all. It's simply putting a different theos at the top of the food chain and pretending neutrality. That's not good for anyone.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't see the relevance. Would you like to enlighten me?

The relevance is that there is a whole slew of people that don't want to live in your Christian Kingdom. But still want to be treated equally.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This is a good point, but there is a fundamental difference you are missing here. Blue Laws and similar restrictions lay out limitations on how a business can operate. They tell a business what they can't do. In the situation I'm talking about, a business is told what they must do. There have always been laws requiring businesses to operate within certain parameters, but telling businesses they have to do something even when it violates their religious beliefs is a much newer and different thing.

It's the same thing. You're arguing the syntax here. Car dealership must not be open on Sundays. Convenient stores must ban liquor sales on Sundays. Businesses must not discriminate based on these factors.

None of this has anything to do with gay marriage though. A gay couple could buy a cake and have an elaborate wedding before the Supreme Court decision. They just didn't have access to the rights married couples have from a legal standpoint.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

The relevance is that there is a whole slew of people that don't want to live in your Christian Kingdom. But still want to be treated equally.

I've never advocated for, nor do I want a theocracy. I think I've been clear on that.

[Solecismic]

I see the secular versus religious argument as about as relevant as the vertebrate/invertebrate argument when it comes to chair design. Secular only means a law that doesn't have its basis in religion.

I wasn't aware I could pick a faith and have laws applied to everyone else based solely on my personal faith.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FWIW......I'm obviously in the wedding business. I've already done 4 'same sex unions' over the past calendar year. They obviously went to other states to get married and then came to our place to have the wedding/reception with family and friends.

We have made it clear that we are open to all marriages for business. We expect a big uptick in business after this ruling. We also plan to have a booth at the gay pride celebration in KC to increase awareness as an option for weddings. As a business, this ruling (and the reactions of some other event spaces) are nothing but a huge positive for us moving forward.

[Schmidty]

I'm confused.

[Schmidty]

Why aren't we talk about video games?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I've never advocated for, nor do I want a theocracy. I think I've been clear on that.

So be happy that these folks are going to be able to live this life in a way that is appropriate for them. You can privately fantasize about them burning in Hell in the afterlife all you want.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Dutch

He was saying that around the same time the Red Menace was threatening Europe with hostile takeover so more people could enjoy slave labor under the Soviets.

Funny story about that. When IHOF came about, my son was going on four. Like his mother, he has red hair. And like other 3 1/2 year-olds, he could sometimes be a bit of a handful.

Now, I wasn't about to have a redheaded toddler as a logo, so I tried to think of something else. I thought of another menace - the Phantom Menace. So I did up a helmet with ol' Darth Maul on it (which was just a photoshop taken from an existing image, as at the time I wasn't good enough with Illustrator to make one myself).

Fritz took a look at it and suggested another direction I might consider following. The rest is fake sports history.

[Drake]

Wait...wait...wait...

THOMKAL HAS A TWIN BROTHER?!

When the fuck did that happen?








(Congrats, man.)

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Why aren't we talk about video games?

Who plays video games anymore?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Why aren't we talk about video games?

Originally Posted by Drake

Wait...wait...wait...

THOMKAL HAS A TWIN BROTHER?!

When the fuck did that happen?


)







(Congrats, man.)

You see drake, let me explain to you about the birds and bees.....
:smacks you upside the head:

I knew you couldn't resist commenting, And thanks buddy

[Thomkal]

And Rand Paul finally speaks up about the issue in his own libertarian way:

Rand Paul calls for government to get out of marriage altogether | Rare

god help us

[Schmidty]

Well, I consider myself a libertarian. There are a million different types though. It's not so easy to say - "Hey you!! Libertarian!!" and have everyone look.

I would turn and look though.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Funny story about that. When IHOF came about, my son was going on four. Like his mother, he has red hair. And like other 3 1/2 year-olds, he could sometimes be a bit of a handful.

Now, I wasn't about to have a redheaded toddler as a logo, so I tried to think of something else. I thought of another menace - the Phantom Menace. So I did up a helmet with ol' Darth Maul on it (which was just a photoshop taken from an existing image, as at the time I wasn't good enough with Illustrator to make one myself).

Fritz took a look at it and suggested another direction I might consider following. The rest is fake sports history.

Ha! I thought you had a soft spot in your heart for cold-blooded communism this whole time.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And Rand Paul finally speaks up about the issue in his own libertarian way:

Rand Paul calls for government to get out of marriage altogether | Rare

god help us

Sure, let's take out the 1,138 things involved with civil marriage (filing jointly, health benefits and decision making in hospitals, etc.) because a few religious people are uncomfortable.

I had to be reminded that is Rand is a dolt. Occasionally he blunders into a good idea. This is not one of them.

[EagleFan]

Life isn't as hard as people make it. Stop trying to force beliefs on others. If no one is getting hurt by someone's beliefs or actions then let it be. If they want to force their beliefs or worse yet, threaten death, then they are the people that we can live without.

[EagleFan]

Sorry, getting tired of all the BS rhetoric the so called "religious" nut jobs are spreading.

[Dutch]

Yep, go see the world and then come back and tell me how God gives a shit about your tiny little congregation's interpretations more than others.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Sorry, getting tired of all the BS rhetoric the so called "religious" nut jobs are spreading.

What does that mean? Can you please be specific about these nut jobs?

[MrBug708]

I think he meant anyone who is religious is a nutjob.

[Subby]

There are plenty of Christians that don't rely on a literal interpretation of The Bible and welcome this ruling.

Christian Leaders in U.S. Voice Support for #SCOTUSmarriage | Sojourners

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I think he meant anyone who is religious is a nutjob.

Interesting. I guess it's ok to be a bigot in the US after all.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I think he meant anyone who is religious is a nutjob.

I would say anyone who opposes gay marriage is a religious nut job.
Does not mean all religious people are nut jobs.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I would say anyone who opposes gay marriage is a religious nut job.
Does not mean all religious people are nut jobs.

Wow.

I'm just going to say it: I voted for gay marriage in Washington state and I don't feel politically bad about it. I am, however, getting fucking tired of fucking intolerant idiots who want me to accept their beliefs, but want to me a "nut job" because of some of mine.

Fuck you. Thanks for fucking it up America.

[jeff061]

Guess you didn't read my post.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Guess you didn't read my post.

No. I did. You're still a bigot.

[jeff061]

I'm not going to break out a venn diagram for you.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I'm not going to break out a venn diagram for you.

Ok.

I'm tired of playing nice with everyone.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And Rand Paul finally speaks up about the issue in his own libertarian way:

Rand Paul calls for government to get out of marriage altogether | Rare

god help us

Rand has held this position for a long time and personally I agree with him.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Seriously the answer to gay marriage is to stop issuing Marriage licenses, for both same sex and traditional couples? I hope they enjoy looking for new jobs then. If you don't like/personally against your new job responsibilties, you quit rather than stop everybody from getting married.

This is going to fail. If there is a requirement that marriage licenses be acquired from county clerks, per state law, and a county decides they simply won't do it, then everyone is being denied due process. They will learn shortly that this is not going to fly.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I embrace diversity. No problem getting used to it. But secular isn't neutral at all. It's simply putting a different theos at the top of the food chain and pretending neutrality. That's not good for anyone.

Secular means nonreligious.

[Tekneek]

I would love to see Rand Paul propose the repealing of every reference to marriage in any piece of the US legal code and regulations. I'm thinking it is an impossible task at this point. To simply up and take away the legal concept (which does not exist if the government does not recognize marriages) overnight would cause significantly more harm than we'd gain in supposed freedom and liberty.

[EagleFan]

Maybe read both my posts together. Have any belief you want but the moment you try to force your beliefs on others that makes you a nut job that I refer to. I put religious in quotes because I don't consider intolerant douchebagery to be religion.

There is a good litmus test, does anyone or anything get hurt or become a victim. There is one answer in this issue...NO.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I would love to see Rand Paul propose the repealing of every reference to marriage in any piece of the US legal code and regulations. I'm thinking it is an impossible task at this point. To simply up and take away the legal concept (which does not exist if the government does not recognize marriages) overnight would cause significantly more harm than we'd gain in supposed freedom and liberty.

Not to mention a significant tax increase.

[EagleFan]

Sorry if I seem pissy but a little background...

I went to a Christian school my entire life (K-12; same school). Graduated in a class of 29. Have developed some great friends from that class (5 of us play poker) but also some people that I could care less about. I have kept in touch with some on facebook but since the ruling I have been flooded with "end of the world" type sentiment from many. I am so over that narrow minded thinking.

Easy way to live one's life: Is what I am about to do going to directly harm someone? If yes, stop it.

Easy way to cope with others: Is what they are doing going to directly harm me or someone that I know? If yes, stop them. If no, STFU.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I would love to see Rand Paul propose the repealing of every reference to marriage in any piece of the US legal code and regulations. I'm thinking it is an impossible task at this point. To simply up and take away the legal concept (which does not exist if the government does not recognize marriages) overnight would cause significantly more harm than we'd gain in supposed freedom and liberty.

Indeed. There are a lot of legal rights incorporated in the civil contract of marriage. And basically what it amounts to in the end - it's a bevy of things that are received or granted based on signing a contract. Rand's suggestion wouldn't do terribly much except on taxation - which would result in an increase for most people - lawyers would come up with comprehensive contracts with all the rights folks have in marriage (hospital visitation, power of attorney, etc) which will be signed instead (with vastly more 'initial here' stuff ).

[bob]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

but also some people that I could care less about.

I think you mean "could not care less about."



Yes, I am an ass.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by bob

I think you mean "could not care less about."



Yes, I am an ass.

Saw that after I posted, meant to fix it. Hoped I would beat the grammar police.

[Dutch]

I just wish the grammar police would stop profiling.

[Subby]

Hey Schmidty is back!

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Subby

Hey Schmidty is back!

I don't understand that.

Niceness matters.

[tarcone]

Man applies to marry 2nd woman. Threatens to sue if denied.
That didn't take long.

Montana man seeks license for second wife - CBS News

[Subby]

The Episcopal Church approves religious weddings for gay couples after controversial debate - The Washington Post

[cuervo72]

Some people - men and women - are polyamorous.* I know these laws serve to protect women especially in religious/cult situations where they may be marrying against their will, but there are some legitimate relationships that work this way. This could be interesting.


* I don't think this is for me - and I know my wife doesn't think this is for me - but in some regards I think we may have been a bit judgemental with the whole Fucky McP thing. Though damned if I'm not still proud of coming up with that moniker.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Subby

The Episcopal Church approves religious weddings for gay couples after controversial debate - The Washington Post

My uncle was an episcolian priest. This has always been a very progressive church. I believe it was the 1st church to allow women as priests.
And it has always been very open to the gay community.

[Dutch]

It always works itself out.