Major Bug on OOTP 6.11 that can hurt Online leagues

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 01:55 PM

{Details of how to do this edited by SkyDog, per request from OOTP Developments.}

Steve assured me that he's passing this on to Markus. He asked me to edit it, so a minimal number of people could use this exploit.

--Ben

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Strange title, there, bud.

fix thanks

WSUCougar · 03-02-2005, 02:01 PM

Strange title, there, bud.

rkmsuf · 03-02-2005, 02:03 PM

how with the Commish know now?

sovereignstar · 03-02-2005, 02:03 PM

How long ago was 6.11 released? It took someone this long to notice that type of bug? Yikes.

sovereignstar · 03-02-2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

how with the Commish know now?

you in ootd league? ootp is awesome

Suicane75 · 03-02-2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

How long ago was 6.11 released? It took someone this long to notice that type of bug? Yikes.

This doesn't shock me.

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

How long ago was 6.11 released? It took someone this long to notice that type of bug? Yikes.

Some people reported back when DFA was introduced in Ootp 6.11 , that there are some loopholes with it when there playing single play.

But i dont think people are taking it seriously with this loophole i wrote above, especially for online leagues.

i know if it was Jim, he will fix it right away of there any loophole on FOF for online.

Ootp 6.11 been out for awhile and Nothing is done about this loophole.
Just Hoping Markus can address this loophole and fix it.

then when ready he can make a patch 6.12 that he promise will come out. he said that back around xmas.

rkmsuf · 03-02-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

you in ootd league? ootp is awesome

I have one version but haven't played in it some time.

The comment was more directed at the original title of the thread since changed.

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 02:28 PM

thanks

Skydog

i got a pm from steve too..

thanks for editing that. i was going to delete it.

hopefully it can get resolve from Markus soon and any other loopholes that been reported on DFA, Waiver. Because it can be done on online leagues.

JeeberD · 03-02-2005, 02:53 PM

Muahahaha...the power is now mine!

Eaglesfan27 · 03-02-2005, 06:03 PM

Seems unfortunate that it has already been circulated quite a bit but is now censored (although I understand the reasons why.)

stevew · 03-02-2005, 06:06 PM

Isnt it better that everyone knows about the exploit, then a few people see it, and then get to (maybe) abuse it, while the rest of us have no clue whats going on with it.

sovereignstar · 03-02-2005, 06:14 PM

Agreed. Pretty retarded if you ask me. It's most important that all commissioners know about this than anything else.

chrisj · 03-02-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Agreed. Pretty retarded if you ask me. It's most important that all commissioners know about this than anything else.

As an online league commish, I've been thinking the same thing.

KWhit · 03-02-2005, 06:54 PM

I agree. I can't believe that it is being kept hush-hush.

cthomer5000 · 03-02-2005, 06:56 PM

it's for your own protection, boys.

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 07:06 PM

i agree, that why i posted to let everyone know about it.

but Steve from OOTP forum and skydog decided to not post it public. that why they edit my post here and ootp forum. Which i can fully understand.

but the thing is, being aware of it, wont prevent the loophole and there nothing the commish can do to prevent it. Its a major loophole.

for now , just be sure to have honest owners in your online league until, Markus fix it.

this loopholes in DFA, waviers, Rule v was reported in the forums when patch 6.11 came out for single play and nothing was really done about it.

But its a bigger problem for online leagues if these loopholes dont get fix.

i just reported the DFA loophole that causes sending players to minors from 25 man roster without having them clear waiver or players that refuse assignment to the minors you can still send them down to the minors.

Steve from OOTP reported how to do it to Markus, so i am hoping it gets fix asap.

i hope there at least a quick fix patch for this one loophole soon.

but i hoping Markus also looks at all the loophooles with 6.11 for DFA, waiver, Rule V. that been reported in the past for single play in ootp forum. because these loopholes will exist for online league too.

Subby · 03-02-2005, 07:16 PM

Yes, using OOTP6 can hurt on-line leagues.

This is not news.

chrisj · 03-02-2005, 07:43 PM

Amazing how the thread on the OOTP boards, after previously only being edited, has now been deleted.

KWhit · 03-02-2005, 07:48 PM

You took the words right out of my mouth. Kinda.

Draft Dodger · 03-02-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisj

Amazing how the thread on the OOTP boards, after previously only being edited, has now been deleted.

amazing isn't the word I'd use...

stevew · 03-02-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

i agree, that why i posted to let everyone know about it.

but Steve from OOTP forum and skydog decided to not post it public. that why they edit my post here and ootp forum. Which i can fully understand.

but the thing is, being aware of it, wont prevent the loophole and there nothing the commish can do to prevent it. Its a major loophole.

for now , just be sure to have honest owners in your online league until, Markus fix it.

this loopholes in DFA, waviers, Rule v was reported in the forums when patch 6.11 came out for single play and nothing was really done about it.

But its a bigger problem for online leagues if these loopholes dont get fix.

i just reported the DFA loophole that causes sending players to minors from 25 man roster without having them clear waiver or players that refuse assignment to the minors you can still send them down to the minors.

Steve from OOTP reported how to do it to Markus, so i am hoping it gets fix asap.

i hope there at least a quick fix patch for this one loophole soon.

but i hoping Markus also looks at all the loophooles with 6.11 for DFA, waiver, Rule V. that been reported in the past for single play in ootp forum. because these loopholes will exist for online league too.

Oh, we dont even use the in-game waivers anyways in our league. I was actually worried for a minute.

yabanci · 03-02-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

thanks

Skydog

i got a pm from steve too..

thanks for editing that. i was going to delete it.

hopefully it can get resolve from Markus soon and any other loopholes that been reported on DFA, Waiver. Because it can be done on online leagues.

I'm sure fixing it is on the to-do list, right behind all the crap from OOTP4 that still hasn't been fixed.

SackAttack · 03-02-2005, 08:03 PM

Honestly, "hushing up" something "major" is pretty much a disincentive for me to buy a product from a developer. If I know they aren't going to be up front about what's wrong with their game, how can I trust them about what's "right" with it?

PSUColonel · 03-02-2005, 08:18 PM

Pure Sim is looking better and better...truth is Markus has never done squat to fix the flaws in OOTP from the get go. He adds on new feature after new feature, and has never squashed the bugs. Now I'm afraid we're living in an ant colony.

Crapshoot · 03-02-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Honestly, "hushing up" something "major" is pretty much a disincentive for me to buy a product from a developer. If I know they aren't going to be up front about what's wrong with their game, how can I trust them about what's "right" with it?

seriously- Im somewhat annoyed that this has been edited on that.

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Oh, we dont even use the in-game waivers anyways in our league. I was actually worried for a minute.

but they still can send players to the minors still if they refused assignement to the minors with this loophole.

Eaglesfan27 · 03-02-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Honestly, "hushing up" something "major" is pretty much a disincentive for me to buy a product from a developer. If I know they aren't going to be up front about what's wrong with their game, how can I trust them about what's "right" with it?

I completely agree.

maximus · 03-02-2005, 08:39 PM

I'm glad I don't play online.

To many cheaters.

Maple Leafs · 03-02-2005, 09:22 PM

I'm not worried. Nobody would ever cheat in the RWBL.

Dr. Sak · 03-02-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I'm not worried. Nobody would ever cheat in the RWBL.

Great point!

Eilim · 03-02-2005, 10:17 PM

This isn't a matter of National security or something that endangers lives with the knowledge getting out so I don't see any extreme need for it to be hushed. With it out in the open, even without being able to stop it, people can tell when it happens and gain the knowledge of having a scumbag owner in their league. And in my personal experience when a exploit is out there in the developers face it tends to be remedied quicker.

Now I can understand (even if I don't agree with) it being edited/deleted over on the ootp forums, but here? When did FOFC become a shill for ootp?

Oh well, don't do multiplayer so maybe I'm missing something here.

Remangiii · 03-02-2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

How long ago was 6.11 released? It took someone this long to notice that type of bug? Yikes.

It's very old news.

Remangiii · 03-02-2005, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

How long ago was 6.11 released? It took someone this long to notice that type of bug? Yikes.

First Report: 10/21/2004 (DFA was added around 10/15) It took this long for someone to care, which is the larger issue.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=83454

jbmagic · 03-02-2005, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remangiii

First Report: 10/21/2004 (DFA was added around 10/15) It took this long for someone to care, which is the larger issue.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=83454

and the mods from OOTP never reply back to it. wow i am shock. i guess they tought it wasnt a real serious issue. but it is for online leagues.

i guess some owners for online league didnt care , or knew about it and wanted to have a big advantage for online.

or they assume the loophole was for solo play only and probably tought i just wont do it in my solo league. but it has a great affect for online league because you wont know which owner is doing the loophole.

just be sure you have an online league full of honest owners you trust.

lets hope its gets fix ASAP. Steve from ootp pass the info to Markus, so now we have to wait.

Remangiii · 03-03-2005, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

and the mods from OOTP never reply back to it. wow i am shock. i guess they tought it wasnt a real serious issue. but it is for online leagues.

The only respond if it can be fixed by contacting e-license.

Ben E Lou · 03-03-2005, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilim

Now I can understand (even if I don't agree with) it being edited/deleted over on the ootp forums, but here? When did FOFC become a shill for ootp?

OOTPDev contacted me and asked if I'd edit it, so that people wouldn't use the exploit all over online leagues--not to cover something up. I don't play OOTP online, so I don't have a dog in this fight at all. For that matter, I don't even know the nature of the problem and how serious it is, because I no longer trouble myself to try and decipher jb-speak. Whatever the exploit is, I wouldn't do it in my solo league, anyway.

It would seem that if you're an honest gamer, you wouldn't want step-by-step instructions (no matter how cryptic) put out there for dishonest people to potentially use about how to use an undetectable exploit.

maximus · 03-03-2005, 04:16 AM

Wow SD, you're up late.....

Ben E Lou · 03-03-2005, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximus

Wow SD, you're up late.....

Early.

Ben E Lou · 03-03-2005, 04:17 AM

Dola:

Actually, for me 4:30 is only a little early.

jbmagic · 03-03-2005, 11:35 AM

Skydog

but you have to agree, if there an exploit in FOF for online leagie, you would want Jim to fix it as soon as possible.

well the samething in OOTP, this exploit loophole for online leagues, ruins online leagues because owners can cheat and use it.

i agree for solo play , its easy, just dont do the exploit loophole. but there no way to know what owners wil use this exploit or has since the patch for 6.11 came out late last year and its been mention before my others and nothing has been done at all.

i hope Markus fix it as soon as possible.

Ben E Lou · 03-03-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

but you have to agree, if there an exploit in FOF for online leagie, you would want Jim to fix it as soon as possible.

Well sure I would, but I never said otherwise, now did I? However, I certainly wouldn't post step-by-step instructions for everyone to learn how to do it. I'd contact the developer privately.

Suicane75 · 03-03-2005, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Well sure I would, but I never said otherwise, now did I? However, I certainly wouldn't post step-by-step instructions for everyone to learn how to do it. I'd contact the developer privately.

Yeah, but some people already know the problem, which puts them at an advantage over those who don't, especially commisioners. It just seems ass backwards to me, you can't make those who do know, not know.

rkmsuf · 03-03-2005, 12:01 PM

People that cheat in for fun leagues are a strange lot.

hoosierdude · 03-03-2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Well sure I would, but I never said otherwise, now did I? However, I certainly wouldn't post step-by-step instructions for everyone to learn how to do it. I'd contact the developer privately.

I agree. If I found something like this I would have privately emailed the developer instead of making it public on numerous forums. If I was the developer, I would rather hear about it in private emails than to find out about it on multiple forums.

SackAttack · 03-03-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

For that matter, I don't even know the nature of the problem and how serious it is.

This is the important part. Step-by-step instructions on how to do it? No, those aren't necessary. What the nature of the problem is? That is of paramount importance. As others have pointed out, you can't force honesty. Those who are likely to use such exploits probably already know about them, and by covering up the problem entirely - especially given Markus' history of letting bug issues slide for multiple versions - you're exposing the more honest owners in the league.

Why? Not only are they at a disadvantage to those who would use the exploit, but without knowing what it is and what to be watching for, they don't even know if they're being taken advantage of.

Daimyo · 03-03-2005, 12:38 PM

good old security by obscurity...

Remangiii · 03-03-2005, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosierdude

I agree. If I found something like this I would have privately emailed the developer instead of making it public on numerous forums. If I was the developer, I would rather hear about it in private emails than to find out about it on multiple forums.

TC, I believe this is the preferred method of bug communication over at OOTP:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=83454
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=83704

There's also a dicussion on how to go about using this loophole in this thread:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ad.php?t=92778

Honestly, I'd consider this problem common knowledge and it's rather worrisome that OOTP is just now freaking out about it.

Remangiii · 03-03-2005, 12:44 PM

It's even in a freaking FAQ:

(Credit: dburden and Sandman)
You can send a player with a major league contract to the minors without waivers (even if he would refuse the assignment) if you put him on the 40-man and then click Auto-Manage Minors. (Possible solutions: Correct the Auto-Manage Minors routine to conform to the new transaction rules.)

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...371#post902371

03-02-2005, 02:01 PM	#3
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	Strange title, there, bud. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

03-02-2005, 02:03 PM	#4
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	how with the Commish know now? __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-02-2005, 02:28 PM	#10
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	thanks Skydog i got a pm from steve too.. thanks for editing that. i was going to delete it. hopefully it can get resolve from Markus soon and any other loopholes that been reported on DFA, Waiver. Because it can be done on online leagues. Last edited by jbmagic : 03-02-2005 at 02:32 PM.

03-02-2005, 02:53 PM	#11
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Muahahaha...the power is now mine! __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

03-02-2005, 06:03 PM	#12
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Seems unfortunate that it has already been circulated quite a bit but is now censored (although I understand the reasons why.) __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

03-02-2005, 02:03 PM	#5
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	How long ago was 6.11 released? It took someone this long to notice that type of bug? Yikes.

03-02-2005, 06:06 PM	#13
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Isnt it better that everyone knows about the exploit, then a few people see it, and then get to (maybe) abuse it, while the rest of us have no clue whats going on with it.

03-02-2005, 06:14 PM	#14
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	Agreed. Pretty retarded if you ask me. It's most important that all commissioners know about this than anything else.

03-02-2005, 06:54 PM	#16
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	I agree. I can't believe that it is being kept hush-hush.

03-02-2005, 07:06 PM	#18
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	i agree, that why i posted to let everyone know about it. but Steve from OOTP forum and skydog decided to not post it public. that why they edit my post here and ootp forum. Which i can fully understand. but the thing is, being aware of it, wont prevent the loophole and there nothing the commish can do to prevent it. Its a major loophole. for now , just be sure to have honest owners in your online league until, Markus fix it. this loopholes in DFA, waviers, Rule v was reported in the forums when patch 6.11 came out for single play and nothing was really done about it. But its a bigger problem for online leagues if these loopholes dont get fix. i just reported the DFA loophole that causes sending players to minors from 25 man roster without having them clear waiver or players that refuse assignment to the minors you can still send them down to the minors. Steve from OOTP reported how to do it to Markus, so i am hoping it gets fix asap. i hope there at least a quick fix patch for this one loophole soon. but i hoping Markus also looks at all the loophooles with 6.11 for DFA, waiver, Rule V. that been reported in the past for single play in ootp forum. because these loopholes will exist for online league too.

03-02-2005, 07:16 PM	#19
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Yes, using OOTP6 can hurt on-line leagues. This is not news. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

03-02-2005, 07:43 PM	#20
chrisj H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Edmonton, Alberta (but still wishing I was in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada)	Amazing how the thread on the OOTP boards, after previously only being edited, has now been deleted. __________________ Canadian Baseball League - an OOTP online league

03-02-2005, 07:48 PM	#21
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	You took the words right out of my mouth. Kinda.

03-02-2005, 08:03 PM	#25
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Honestly, "hushing up" something "major" is pretty much a disincentive for me to buy a product from a developer. If I know they aren't going to be up front about what's wrong with their game, how can I trust them about what's "right" with it?

03-02-2005, 08:18 PM	#26
PSUColonel Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wayne, PA	Pure Sim is looking better and better...truth is Markus has never done squat to fix the flaws in OOTP from the get go. He adds on new feature after new feature, and has never squashed the bugs. Now I'm afraid we're living in an ant colony.

03-02-2005, 08:39 PM	#30
maximus Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Where the system is screwed	I'm glad I don't play online. To many cheaters.

03-02-2005, 09:22 PM	#31
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	I'm not worried. Nobody would ever cheat in the RWBL. __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

03-02-2005, 10:17 PM	#33
Eilim High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Foxboro,MA	This isn't a matter of National security or something that endangers lives with the knowledge getting out so I don't see any extreme need for it to be hushed. With it out in the open, even without being able to stop it, people can tell when it happens and gain the knowledge of having a scumbag owner in their league. And in my personal experience when a exploit is out there in the developers face it tends to be remedied quicker. Now I can understand (even if I don't agree with) it being edited/deleted over on the ootp forums, but here? When did FOFC become a shill for ootp? Oh well, don't do multiplayer so maybe I'm missing something here.

03-03-2005, 04:16 AM	#39
maximus Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Where the system is screwed	Wow SD, you're up late.....

03-03-2005, 04:17 AM	#41
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Dola: Actually, for me 4:30 is only a little early. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

03-03-2005, 11:35 AM	#42
jbmagic Pro Starter Join Date: Apr 2004	Skydog but you have to agree, if there an exploit in FOF for online leagie, you would want Jim to fix it as soon as possible. well the samething in OOTP, this exploit loophole for online leagues, ruins online leagues because owners can cheat and use it. i agree for solo play , its easy, just dont do the exploit loophole. but there no way to know what owners wil use this exploit or has since the patch for 6.11 came out late last year and its been mention before my others and nothing has been done at all. i hope Markus fix it as soon as possible.

03-03-2005, 12:01 PM	#45
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	People that cheat in for fun leagues are a strange lot. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-03-2005, 12:38 PM	#48
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	good old security by obscurity...

03-03-2005, 12:44 PM	#50
Remangiii n00b Join Date: Sep 2004	It's even in a freaking FAQ: (Credit: dburden and Sandman) You can send a player with a major league contract to the minors without waivers (even if he would refuse the assignment) if you put him on the 40-man and then click Auto-Manage Minors. (Possible solutions: Correct the Auto-Manage Minors routine to conform to the new transaction rules.) http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...371#post902371 Last edited by Remangiii : 03-03-2005 at 12:44 PM.

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