NFL Changes Overtime Rules - FOFC Whiners Shriek in Terror

RedKingGold · 03-23-2010, 03:40 PM

Wow.

Quote:

Overtime proposal passes

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 23, 2010 3:22 PM ET
The National Football League owners have approved a change in overtime, starting with the playoffs following the 2010 season, that will modify the sudden-death format and prevent a team from winning a game with a field goal on the opening possession.

The vote was 28-4, with the Buffalo Bills, Minnesota Vikings, Baltimore Ravens and Cincinnati Bengals voting against. It needed at least 24 votes to pass.

"It was really a good discussion in the sense that there's been a lot of debate, both publicly and privately, over the rule -- which is always good," Competition Committee co-chair Rich McKay said in announcing the vote. "We've had this discussion for a number of years. We felt like this proposal, which we call 'modified sudden death,' was really an opportunity to make what we think was a pretty good rule -- sudden death -- even better."

McKay stressed that the new overtime rule, which says the team receiving the kickoff can't end the game on the first possession unless it scores a touchdown, will apply only to the playoffs.

"Part of the reason we have different rules is we have different consequences," McKay said. "The consequences in the postseason are, go home if you don't win. In the regular season, we have 15 other games."

It's the first major change in playoff overtime rules in the NFL since "The Greatest Game Ever Played," when the Baltimore Colts beat the New York Giants in the 1958 NFL Championship Game.

Overtime proposal passes | ProFootballTalk.com

NFL owners approve changes to overtime for playoff games

Dodgerchick · 03-23-2010, 03:44 PM

wow, what the hell?

Honolulu_Blue · 03-23-2010, 03:45 PM

Well, at least now the NHL can't be mocked as being the only sport with different OT rules in the regular season and post season.

I like the change. It will make OT games much more interesting and exciting.

JediKooter · 03-23-2010, 03:48 PM

Lame...

RedKingGold · 03-23-2010, 03:49 PM

I imagine that the change will be implemented for all regular season games starting in 2011.

Dr. Sak · 03-23-2010, 03:50 PM

At least Farve can still end it with another one of his famous playoff interceptions.

Doug5984 · 03-23-2010, 03:50 PM

I don't like this- but if it's what the NFL choose oh well. I liked the feeling of and excitement of a game winning FG.

Dr. Sak · 03-23-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Well, at least now the NHL can't be mocked as being the only sport with different OT rules in the regular season and post season.

The NHL has many other ways to get mocked.

wade moore · 03-23-2010, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5984

I don't like this- but if it's what the NFL choose oh well. I liked the feeling of and excitement of a game winning FG.

Um, you can still have a game winning FG.

molson · 03-23-2010, 03:51 PM

I don't understand the rule yet.

So is there no point at all in going for a field goal on your first possesion in OT?

Dr. Sak · 03-23-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I don't understand the rule yet.

So is there no point at all in going for a field goal on your first possesion in OT?

If you make a FG in the first possession, the opposing team gets a possession to match or beat you with a TD.

wade moore · 03-23-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I don't understand the rule yet.

So is there no point at all in going for a field goal on your first possesion in OT?

The other team has to match or beat your FG.

If they match it, it becomes sudden death from there with you getting the ball first.

molson · 03-23-2010, 03:53 PM

So what do you pick if you win the OT coin toss? Do you still want the ball first?

MikeVic · 03-23-2010, 03:54 PM

Another way for McNabb to get confused in overtime.

Dr. Sak · 03-23-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Another way for McNabb to get confused in overtime.

Or extended time for him to puke.

Dr. Sak · 03-23-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

So what do you pick if you win the OT coin toss? Do you still want the ball first?

If I'm not mistaken you don't get a choice. If you win the toss you get the ball in OT.

molson · 03-23-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

If I'm not mistaken you don't get a choice. If you win the toss you get the ball in OT.

Would that be new? Didn't somebody once choose to kick off in NFL overtime?

Honolulu_Blue · 03-23-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Would that be new? Didn't somebody once choose to kick off in NFL overtime?

Marty Morningwheg when he coached the Lions. He took the wind. They lost.

Dr. Sak · 03-23-2010, 03:58 PM

Maybe you are right...i just thought no one would be dumb enough to kick.

Ksyrup · 03-23-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I imagine that the change will be implemented for all regular season games starting in 2011.

I doubt it. Coaches don't like it because this gives them 2-3 more decisions to be second-guessed on. NFLPA isn't in favor for regular season games because it increases the number of plays and chance for injury.

Given the quite clear-cut stats tying an increased winning percentage in OT to the 1994 kick-off change, I'm surprised they didn't just implement a change to the kick-off for OT, moving it up to the 35 or 40 yard line to cut down on returns and keep starting field position in check. Or, just give the receiving team the ball at the 20 and be done with it.If they can move the ball half the field to get into FG range, then I have no problem with them winning without the other team getting the ball.

Ksyrup · 03-23-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Would that be new? Didn't somebody once choose to kick off in NFL overtime?

It's happened 6 times in NFL history, IIRC.

molson · 03-23-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's happened 6 times in NFL history, IIRC.

Can I assume it was the Lions all 6 times?

Passacaglia · 03-23-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Maybe you are right...i just thought no one would be dumb enough to kick.

Obviously not a Lions fan.

sterlingice · 03-23-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I don't understand the rule yet.

So is there no point at all in going for a field goal on your first possesion in OT?

Yeah- it's like you just penalized the team that wins the toss. Sure, they can get the ball and kick the field goal. But they only get 3 downs to make the decision whereas you're giving the other team 4 downs to keep moving the ball.

Then again, I kindof like the college rules. Or, even better, a modified college rule where you start at midfield not at the 25. At least that way there's an advantage gained by the coin flip.

But don't worry, it'll give more fodder for the Jim Romes and PTIs of the world to make stupid comments like "Well, if the loser team had scored a TD, they wouldn't have to worry", not at all understanding the depth of the problem.

SI

Samdari · 03-23-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I imagine that the change will be implemented for all regular season games starting in 2011.

Not necesarily 2011, but the first time a team loses a "win and you're in, lose you go home" game in week 17 of the regular season.

Ksyrup · 03-23-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Can I assume it was the Lions all 6 times?

The Lions are the only team in recent history to do it. I think the others were all from the 70s or earlier, maybe, when teams really did have a 50/50 chance of winning whether or not they took the ball first. I read some stuff on this a while ago, but I might have also seen it referenced in Peter King's columns. He's been a big proponent of changing the OT rules for some time.

Doug5984 · 03-23-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

Um, you can still have a game winning FG.

You are right on anything past that first drive, but how many games are going to have the FG on the first drive and then a stop on the next drive and it ends like that. We'll have to see how it goes, teams will def have to play more aggressive on that first drive, not just the set up the 40 yard FG, maybe once I see happen like that it will be just as exciting. I just know for college football it's always more exciting to me when a team wins it on an offensive play and not a 4th down stop.

Passacaglia · 03-23-2010, 04:13 PM

This is as good a spot to reiterate a great idea someone here had in another thread. If the game is tied at regulation, play should resume as it was when the game ended. I think that makes sudden death much more palatable.

Samdari · 03-23-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Then again, I kindof like the college rules. Or, even better, a modified college rule where you start at midfield not at the 25. At least that way there's an advantage gained by the coin flip.

The whole point of changing the rule was to eliminate the advantage in winning the coin flip.

EDIT: This rule does seem to give an advantage to the team that kicks off to start OT. But, it woudl seem to be a smaller advantage, and the team that wins the coin flip can choose to take that advantage. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-23-2010, 04:16 PM

How fucking silly.

Logan · 03-23-2010, 04:19 PM

I love how it still leaves open the bullshit argument of "both teams should get a chance to touch the ball in OT!"

I also like how you can now make the argument that this new system could make it better to kick off.

Signed,

Someone who was fine with the way it was

Doug5984 · 03-23-2010, 04:23 PM

Another strategy to consider- you drive down to the 5, it's 4th down. You get another shot to go for the endzone, if you miss the team starts at the 5, hopefully your defense can stop them from going 95 yards and you then have the ability to go down and kick that 40 yard FG to win it. Or do you kick the 17 yard field goal, kick off and possibly give them good field position.

I think I'd want my coach to go for the TD

Logan · 03-23-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug5984

Another strategy to consider- you drive down to the 5, it's 4th down. You get another shot to go for the endzone, if you miss the team starts at the 5, hopefully your defense can stop them from going 95 yards and you then have the ability to go down and kick that 40 yard FG to win it. Or do you kick the 17 yard field goal, kick off and possibly give them good field position.

I think I'd want my coach to go for the TD

Your defense doesn't need to stop them from going 95 yards...it needs to stop them from getting into FG position.

Celeval · 03-23-2010, 04:32 PM

This is silly. A touchdown on the first drive still wins it, so why wouldn't you want the ball first to go get the touchdown?

SackAttack · 03-23-2010, 04:36 PM

Interesting that the Vikings' loss to the Saints is probably what precipitated final action here, and yet the Vikings voted against the change.

DanGarion · 03-23-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Lame...

No, he's not an NFL coach anymore, you can't blame him...

PackerFanatic · 03-23-2010, 04:43 PM

A safety also wins it on the first drive.

Just stupid...

RPI-Fan · 03-23-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Yeah- it's like you just penalized the team that wins the toss. Sure, they can get the ball and kick the field goal. But they only get 3 downs to make the decision whereas you're giving the other team 4 downs to keep moving the ball.

Then again, I kindof like the college rules. Or, even better, a modified college rule where you start at midfield not at the 25. At least that way there's an advantage gained by the coin flip.

But don't worry, it'll give more fodder for the Jim Romes and PTIs of the world to make stupid comments like "Well, if the loser team had scored a TD, they wouldn't have to worry", not at all understanding the depth of the problem.

SI

Your guys' argument isn't consistent. If the new rules shift the advantage to the kicking team, that is fine. Normatively, I would think one thing that everyone agrees on is that any rule change should reduce the advantage that winning the coin toss gives one team. As long as the new rules don't give the team that wins the toss (and may play defense) more than a 60% chance of winning (or whatever the stat is for teams that currently win the toss), there isn't a problem on this count.

JediKooter · 03-23-2010, 04:54 PM

I just heard Nate Kaeding breathing a huge sigh of relief...

sooner333 · 03-23-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Interesting that the Vikings' loss to the Saints is probably what precipitated final action here, and yet the Vikings voted against the change.

I kind of viewed it as not wanting to appear like sour grapes.

JediKooter · 03-23-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanGarion

No, he's not an NFL coach anymore, you can't blame him...

I'll blame it on the rain...

Logan · 03-23-2010, 05:03 PM

I want to see the rules change so that if an offense gives up a INT-TD or fumble return for a TD on the opening drive, they get the opportunity to march their defense out there for the same chance to tie the game.

SackAttack · 03-23-2010, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sooner333

I kind of viewed it as not wanting to appear like sour grapes.

Could be. But if they're taking that stance, you'd think at least another 11 would've said "Well, if they don't think a problem exists, why are we changing anything?"

RPI-Fan · 03-23-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Could be. But if they're taking that stance, you'd think at least another 11 would've said "Well, if they don't think a problem exists, why are we changing anything?"

Owners talk, a lot; my guess is that the Vikings would have been perfectly willing to vote for the change if they were the deciding vote.

Greyroofoo · 03-23-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

I want to see the rules change so that if an offense gives up a INT-TD or fumble return for a TD on the opening drive, they get the opportunity to march their defense out there for the same chance to tie the game.

That will be real exciting watching the QB kneel down several times.

Logan · 03-23-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

That will be real exciting watching the QB kneel down several times.

All in the name of equality baby, if that's what is most important.

Pumpy Tudors · 03-23-2010, 06:00 PM

I posted something on FOFC nearly three years ago, and I'm reposting it in this thread for comedy value:

March 2, 2003. Dallas Desperados at Arizona Rattlers. Dallas kicker Jason Wells made a game-tying field goal from 34 yards out with 49 seconds remaining. The game went to overtime with the score 58-58.

AFL rules state that each team gets at least one possession in overtime. When Arizona won the coin toss, Rattlers coach Danny White (yes, that Danny White) elected to kick off. This is normal, just like an NCAA team electing to play defense to start overtime. Danny White had an idea, though. He had his kicker, Nelson Garner, attempt an onside kick. The Rattlers recovered and drove down the field for a touchdown. Danny White thought the game was over at this point. After all, he figured that Dallas' possession started when Arizona kicked off. In his mind, the Desperados failed to recover the onside kick, so it was essentially a turnover on their possession.

Danny White thought wrong.

The officials huddled for a couple of minutes and determined that Dallas had never officially had an overtime possession, so Arizona would have to attempt an extra point and kick off to Dallas. White was livid, but there was nothing he could do. Nelson Garner went back onto the field for Arizona and missed the extra point. Arizona 64, Dallas 58. Garner then kicked off to the Desperados so Dallas could have their possession.

The Desperados put together a 7-play, 48-yard drive that ended in a 10-yard touchdown pass from Jim Kubiak to Shannon Culver, tying the score at 64. Dallas kicker Jason Wells makes the extra point, and the Desperados win one of the most controversial games in AFL history. After the game, all Danny White could say was that he didn't know the overtime rules well enough and admits that his clever idea to circumvent the rules wasn't so clever after all.

JediKooter · 03-23-2010, 06:02 PM

He should have called for another on-sides kick.

Pumpy Tudors · 03-23-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

He should have called for another on-sides kick.

I would have.

Logan · 03-23-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I posted something on FOFC nearly three years ago, and I'm reposting it in this thread for comedy value:

...

AFL rules state that each team gets at least one possession in overtime.

...

The officials huddled for a couple of minutes and determined that Dallas had never officially had an overtime possession, so Arizona would have to attempt an extra point and kick off to Dallas.

So far at least, until the rulebook comes out, here's what we have to go on from ESPN:

Quote:

• Both teams must have the opportunity to possess the ball once during the extra period, unless the team that receives the opening kickoff scores a touchdown on its initial possession, in which case it is the winner.

Define "opportunity to possess the ball" keeping your story in mind.

03-23-2010, 03:44 PM	#2
Dodgerchick College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Austin, TX	wow, what the hell? __________________ DON'T ITCH THAT NOSE! A Meditation Dynasty

03-23-2010, 03:45 PM	#3
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	Well, at least now the NHL can't be mocked as being the only sport with different OT rules in the regular season and post season. I like the change. It will make OT games much more interesting and exciting. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

03-23-2010, 03:48 PM	#4
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Lame... __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

03-23-2010, 03:51 PM	#10
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I don't understand the rule yet. So is there no point at all in going for a field goal on your first possesion in OT? Last edited by molson : 03-23-2010 at 03:52 PM.

03-23-2010, 03:53 PM	#13
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	So what do you pick if you win the OT coin toss? Do you still want the ball first? Last edited by molson : 03-23-2010 at 03:55 PM.

03-23-2010, 03:49 PM	#5
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	I imagine that the change will be implemented for all regular season games starting in 2011.

03-23-2010, 03:50 PM	#6
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	At least Farve can still end it with another one of his famous playoff interceptions.

03-23-2010, 03:50 PM	#7
Doug5984 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisiana	I don't like this- but if it's what the NFL choose oh well. I liked the feeling of and excitement of a game winning FG.

03-23-2010, 03:54 PM	#14
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	Another way for McNabb to get confused in overtime.

03-23-2010, 03:58 PM	#19
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Maybe you are right...i just thought no one would be dumb enough to kick.

03-23-2010, 04:13 PM	#28
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	This is as good a spot to reiterate a great idea someone here had in another thread. If the game is tied at regulation, play should resume as it was when the game ended. I think that makes sudden death much more palatable.

03-23-2010, 04:16 PM	#30
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	How fucking silly. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-23-2010, 04:19 PM	#31
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I love how it still leaves open the bullshit argument of "both teams should get a chance to touch the ball in OT!" I also like how you can now make the argument that this new system could make it better to kick off. Signed, Someone who was fine with the way it was

03-23-2010, 04:23 PM	#32
Doug5984 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisiana	Another strategy to consider- you drive down to the 5, it's 4th down. You get another shot to go for the endzone, if you miss the team starts at the 5, hopefully your defense can stop them from going 95 yards and you then have the ability to go down and kick that 40 yard FG to win it. Or do you kick the 17 yard field goal, kick off and possibly give them good field position. I think I'd want my coach to go for the TD

03-23-2010, 04:32 PM	#34
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	This is silly. A touchdown on the first drive still wins it, so why wouldn't you want the ball first to go get the touchdown?

03-23-2010, 04:36 PM	#35
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Interesting that the Vikings' loss to the Saints is probably what precipitated final action here, and yet the Vikings voted against the change.

03-23-2010, 04:43 PM	#37
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	A safety also wins it on the first drive. Just stupid... __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

03-23-2010, 04:54 PM	#39
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	I just heard Nate Kaeding breathing a huge sigh of relief... __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

03-23-2010, 05:03 PM	#42
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I want to see the rules change so that if an offense gives up a INT-TD or fumble return for a TD on the opening drive, they get the opportunity to march their defense out there for the same chance to tie the game.

03-23-2010, 06:00 PM	#47
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I posted something on FOFC nearly three years ago, and I'm reposting it in this thread for comedy value: March 2, 2003. Dallas Desperados at Arizona Rattlers. Dallas kicker Jason Wells made a game-tying field goal from 34 yards out with 49 seconds remaining. The game went to overtime with the score 58-58. AFL rules state that each team gets at least one possession in overtime. When Arizona won the coin toss, Rattlers coach Danny White (yes, that Danny White) elected to kick off. This is normal, just like an NCAA team electing to play defense to start overtime. Danny White had an idea, though. He had his kicker, Nelson Garner, attempt an onside kick. The Rattlers recovered and drove down the field for a touchdown. Danny White thought the game was over at this point. After all, he figured that Dallas' possession started when Arizona kicked off. In his mind, the Desperados failed to recover the onside kick, so it was essentially a turnover on their possession. Danny White thought wrong. The officials huddled for a couple of minutes and determined that Dallas had never officially had an overtime possession, so Arizona would have to attempt an extra point and kick off to Dallas. White was livid, but there was nothing he could do. Nelson Garner went back onto the field for Arizona and missed the extra point. Arizona 64, Dallas 58. Garner then kicked off to the Desperados so Dallas could have their possession. The Desperados put together a 7-play, 48-yard drive that ended in a 10-yard touchdown pass from Jim Kubiak to Shannon Culver, tying the score at 64. Dallas kicker Jason Wells makes the extra point, and the Desperados win one of the most controversial games in AFL history. After the game, all Danny White could say was that he didn't know the overtime rules well enough and admits that his clever idea to circumvent the rules wasn't so clever after all. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

03-23-2010, 06:02 PM	#48
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	He should have called for another on-sides kick. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

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