Obama administration requests legal review of BCS structure.......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Now here's something that Obama can likely get bipartisan support on!

Justice Dept.: President Obama's administration may take action on BCS - NCAA Football - SI.com

[Flasch186]

yes!

[panerd]

What a waste of government time. Especially being a Mizzou fan MBBF, a few years ago we win against OU and we are in the national title game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Any remaining doubt that he's a complete moron has now been removed.

[MrBug708]

Who the F cares

[Flasch186]

goddamnit, if there is nothing else we can agree on that a playoff system for college system is one of them!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

if there is nothing else we can agree on that a playoff system for college football is completely useless & will destroy very fabric of what makes the regular season the only completely meaningful one in all of sports is one of them!

Fixed that for you

[Flasch186]

i hate you

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Fixed that for you

Then stop claiming we have a national champion, that's all I ask...

[Izulde]

If he handles this as well as he did health care reform, the bowl system will be safe for years.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Fixed that for you

Nothing screams meaningful like having some media members, former players, and computers determine the championship. How unmeaningful it must feel for those other sports that determine it on the field.

[JPhillips]

Ugh. Don't like Congress messing with college football nd I don't like the executive fooling around with it either.

How about the DOJ spends the time it would take to look at the BCS and instead find a way to convict Evan Bayh of something that gets him out of the Senate.

[ISiddiqui]

For those who do believe this is a waste of time, do you believe that anti-trust laws are not worth pursuing?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I wish McCain had won. Not because I think he would have been a better president, but because I wouldn't have to hear all the fucking Obama haters.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

For those who do believe this is a waste of time, do you believe that anti-trust laws are not worth pursuing?

No, but there's a limited amount of manhours available for enforcement and the BCS structure shouldn't be a priority. If you can tell me all the other anti-trust issues have been cleaned up and now we're on to the BCS it would make more sense.

[MrBug708]

It's not really an Obama thing, at least not to me. Hell, I voted for the guy. But I dont want the government involved in sports. (At least where there is legality issues not involved)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

No, but there's a limited amount of manhours available for enforcement and the BCS structure shouldn't be a priority. If you can tell me all the other anti-trust issues have been cleaned up and now we're on to the BCS it would make more sense.

Can you tell me of all that many anti-trust cases/investigations that have more money behind it? Regardless of what the DOJ does with it, it'll likely be a far less waste of time and money as the case against Microsoft was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Nothing screams meaningful like having some media members, former players, and computers determine the championship. How unmeaningful it must feel for those other sports that determine it on the field.

Works pretty well for me, has worked out pretty well for college football for a long time now as a matter of fact.

Want an illustration of the difference? Today #7 Duke plays #11 Georgetown in a game that means absolutely nothing. That same regular season game can be an important eliminator in college football, actually has meaning beyond the few hours it lasts. I'd far rather have a meaningful regular season for months of football where every week matters.

edit to add: I have no desire to see it dumbed down so that I only need to pay attention for a few weeks at the end of the year. I enjoy the role that college football plays in absorbing recreational attention for a prolonged period & am loathe to have that taken away.

[ISiddiqui]

From the article:

In the letter to Sen. Orrin Hatch, obtained by The Associated Press, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote that the Justice Department is reviewing Hatch's request and other materials to determine whether to open an investigation into whether the BCS violates antitrust laws.

How exactly is that so horrible? In addition, as it is a Senatorial request, it carries more weight (as an executive branch employee, I can attest that if a Congressman or Senator comes to us, it becomes more of a priority).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lemme see here

A private, voluntary membership organization elects to determine a champion in the manner of its choosing.

In the case of college basketball, they've chosen to allow 65 teams selected in a manner they've deemed appropriate to compete for that championship, while also allowing additional opportunities to compete in sanctioned post-season play unrelated to that championship.

In the case of college football, they've chosen to allow 2 teams selected in a manner they've deemed appropriate to compete for that championship, while allowing additional opportunities for sanctioned post-season play unrelated to that championship.

And that's somehow the business of Congress? Fuck me running.

[ISiddiqui]

I can say it again, not that'll help matters...

Anti-Trust Laws.

Or, more specifically, Sherman Anti-Trust Act.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I can say it again, not that'll help matters...

Anti-Trust Laws.

Or, more specifically, Sherman Anti-Trust Act.

Hey, if the NCAA needs to alter its division structure in order to allow for the "equitable distribution" of revenue to member institutions (which is what Hatch appears to be trying to latch onto) & satisfy the meddlers while maintaining something worthwhile then I'm all for it. The non-BCS conferences could vanish from the D1 landscape tomorrow and the majority of fans would never notice the difference.

But it would have been a lot simpler for Hatch to attach himself to a meaningful relevant football program if he's that into it than to try to destroy the history, tradition, and relevance of the sport.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I wish McCain had won. Not because I think he would have been a better president, but because I wouldn't have to hear all the fucking Obama haters.

You are so right because the other side never hates on anyone or blames anyone but themselves.

[molson]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I wish McCain had won. Not because I think he would have been a better president, but because I wouldn't have to hear all the fucking Obama haters.

I definitely miss the glory days when the president wasn't criticized.

[panerd]

If it's so bad than Boise, TCU, Cinci should all pull out and form their own league. In fact teams generally ranked 11-25 like Mizzou, Iowa, Old Miss, Oregon, etc could also join them. Or maybe them all make a shitload of money off the bowl system and don't want to lose that cash cow? But once again I guess the government knows how to run something better than the people currently running it and the millions of fans who are forced to watch it.

For those who try and make this partisan (wah Obama) the same hatred would be leveled at McCain or Bob Barr if he did this. In fact the same disgust was leveled at Bush and Congress when they "got to the bottom" of steriods. Clean up some of the messes that all of government has already created (war on drugs, war in the Middle East, ridiculous tax code, Federalized education, etc) before you go fucking something else up.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Can you tell me of all that many anti-trust cases/investigations that have more money behind it? Regardless of what the DOJ does with it, it'll likely be a far less waste of time and money as the case against Microsoft was.

Google.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Lemme see here

A private, voluntary membership organization elects to determine a champion in the manner of its choosing.

In the case of college basketball, they've chosen to allow 65 teams selected in a manner they've deemed appropriate to compete for that championship, while also allowing additional opportunities to compete in sanctioned post-season play unrelated to that championship.

In the case of college football, they've chosen to allow 2 teams selected in a manner they've deemed appropriate to compete for that championship, while allowing additional opportunities for sanctioned post-season play unrelated to that championship.

And that's somehow the business of Congress? Fuck me running.

In basketball, every team has the ability to win the National Championship while that is not the case in football.

The current system violates the Sherman Act. College football is big business.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

You are so right because the other side never hates on anyone or blames anyone but themselves.

Originally Posted by molson

I definitely miss the glory days when the president wasn't criticized.

If you guys think that it hasn't been taken to another level with Obama...

I hate the idiots on the other side too. It's just that someone on the right can scream about the left all day long and feel they are bathed in the righteous waters of patriotism. Cindy Sheehan today would be leading a tea party.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

If you guys think that it hasn't been taken to another level with Obama...

I hate the idiots on the other side too. It's just that someone on the right can scream about the left all day long and feel they are bathed in the righteous waters of patriotism. Cindy Sheehan today would be leading a tea party.

Sorry but some people just don't like the out of control federal government. Cry about partisan bullshit like Cindy Sheehan all you want but some people are just sick of the federal government trying to get involved in every aspect of life. It got a lot worse with Geroge W. Bush and Obama has done nothing to slow it down. It's hard to argue about out of control government with me though because I don't give a shit about Republicans either. I think they are both out of control. So give me a reason why this is a good idea that doesn't somehow involve this being anti-Obama and some non-sequitur jab about Cindy Sheehan and the tea party?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

So give me a reason why this is a good idea that doesn't somehow involve this being anti-Obama and some non-sequitur jab about Cindy Sheehan and the tea party?

Isiddiqui covered it pretty well with the enforcement of the Sherman Anti-Trust act. Considering the act has been around since 1890, it is kind of hard to pin this on an out of control government.

[Young Drachma]

Orrin Hatch started this ball rolling, at the behest of the University of Utah and probably BYU to a lesser extent, not the President.

And this isn't exactly a new thing. If Teddy Roosevelt hadn't stepped in when he did to implore the schools to make the sport safer, it might not look anything it does right now.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I try to ignore politics all together, but now this is starting to fuck with my sports! Do I have to care now?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I try to ignore politics all together, but now this is starting to fuck with my sports! Do I have to care now?

No, UNO is still moving to Division 3, and the Bowling Hall of Fame is still moving to Arlington, TX.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by cartman

No, UNO is still moving to Division 3, and the Bowling Hall of Fame is still moving to Arlington, TX.

fml

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Lemme see here

A private, voluntary membership organization elects to determine a champion in the manner of its choosing.

In the case of college basketball, they've chosen to allow 65 teams selected in a manner they've deemed appropriate to compete for that championship, while also allowing additional opportunities to compete in sanctioned post-season play unrelated to that championship.

In the case of college football, they've chosen to allow 2 teams selected in a manner they've deemed appropriate to compete for that championship, while allowing additional opportunities for sanctioned post-season play unrelated to that championship.

And that's somehow the business of Congress? Fuck me running.

How is the NCAA/BCS a "private" organization when most of the NCAA (at least the top level) is made of public universities?

[RainMaker]

Just remember that college football is where it is money wise because a few schools sued claiming the NCAA was violating the antitrust laws. Now they will be whining when those same laws they loved a couple decades ago work against them. Hypocrisy at its best.

[Young Drachma]

Oh and they're all non-profits, too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

In basketball, every team has the ability to win the National Championship while that is not the case in football.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

They are eligible for selection just like everyone else. But the number of qualifiers for the championship isn't as large as it is for other sports so we haven't seen one reach that stage yet.

The current system violates the Sherman Act. College football is big business.

So is, just for example, men's golf. Not as big but big nevertheless. But I haven't seen anyone going after the PGA to have the government determine the number of entrants in their championship procedure.

This is ultimately nothing more than typical boo hoo bullshit by people/entities jealous that others are higher on the food chain than they are.

Earlier I was going to agree that this move by any politician would have been equally ripped. While I can assure you that I would have taken Bush, Reagan, or a hypothetically elected Ann Coulter to task just the same as I'm prepared to do with Obama maybe there is a liberal/conservative element to this ultimately after all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

How is the NCAA/BCS a "private" organization when most of the NCAA (at least the top level) is made of public universities?

Umm ... when did the government take over the NCAA?

The NCAA is no more a "public" organization than any other vendor/service provider/professional organization that happens to have universities as clients. Or does a university that obtains group health insurance from a supplier suddenly turn that company into a "public" institution? Are the vendors who supply the food to campus dining halls sudden "public" companies ... just because they're chosen by public university as a supplier?

As far as I'm aware no one forces any institution to be an NCAA member. Hell, they're free to not join & schedule exhibition games against Athletes In Action if they so desire. I see no reason they couldn't determine who they'll play, keep track of results & declare themselves a champion in any manner they see fit if they so desire.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Orrin Hatch started this ball rolling, at the behest of the University of Utah and probably BYU to a lesser extent, not the President.

And he's no less of a fucking idiot for doing so than Obama.

There, maybe that'll makes our poor lefties feel better. But I kind of figured that equal application of contempt was pretty obvious throughout my consistent criticism of the notion of involving government in this, which extends throughout a hell of a lot more threads than this one. Apparently not obvious enough.

And I'll be happy to ask Rep Paul Broun (R-GA) if he's lost his fucking mind too if he decides to interject himself into the process at some point.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

They are eligible for selection just like everyone else. But the number of qualifiers for the championship isn't as large as it is for other sports so we haven't seen one reach that stage yet.

Nope. College basketball has automatic qualifiers which means each team has the ability to play themselves into a National Championship. That is something football does not have.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

So is, just for example, men's golf. Not as big but big nevertheless. But I haven't seen anyone going after the PGA to have the government determine the number of entrants in their championship procedure.

This is ultimately nothing more than typical boo hoo bullshit by people/entities jealous that others are higher on the food chain than they are.

Earlier I was going to agree that this move by any politician would have been equally ripped. While I can assure you that I would have taken Bush, Reagan, or a hypothetically elected Ann Coulter to task just the same as I'm prepared to do with Obama maybe there is a liberal/conservative element to this ultimately after all.

I don't see any liberal/conservative element to this at all.

The PGA does not banish a segment of golfers from ever participating in their tournaments. They have criteria to meet and every golfer plays on the same playing ground to meet that criteria. If Golfer A shoots a 65 and Golfer B shoots a 67, they don't take Golfer B on the grounds that he may draw more fans.

I don't see it as boo hoo by people lower on the food chain, I see it as some big schools hiding under their desk because they may actually have to play some tough competition to win a NC.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

It's just that someone on the right can scream about the left all day long and feel they are bathed in the righteous waters of patriotism.

And vice-versa. There is plenty of self-righteousness to go around. So what's the point again?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Nope. College basketball has automatic qualifiers which means each team has the ability to play themselves into a National Championship. That is something football does not have.


I don't see any liberal/conservative element to this at all.

The PGA does not banish a segment of golfers from ever participating in their tournaments. They have criteria to meet and every golfer plays on the same playing ground to meet that criteria. If Golfer A shoots a 65 and Golfer B shoots a 67, they don't take Golfer B on the grounds that he may draw more fans.

I don't see it as boo hoo by people lower on the food chain, I see it as some big schools hiding under their desk because they may actually have to play some tough competition to win a NC.

Listen an 8 team playoff sounds amazing but that's as big as at ever will go. I think more likely we get a And 1 situation and it'll be just a little different then it is now.

There is no perfect answer and there is going to have to be polls and computers to determine who makes it in anyway, while the regular season gets gutted in the process for nothing.

No longer would it be teams gutting it out to be in the top two, it'd be teams getting by to stay in the top eight or whatever.

[DeToxRox]

I should add the fact that I do not see any way they have a 16 team playoff because they will not play over Finals. You would then end up overlapping with the NFL Playoffs which will never happen.

So now you have 8 teams with more then 8 conferences so you can't have all the conference winners go into a playoff.

So how do you decide who the 8 teams are in the playoffs?

I know it is a good alternative but it isn't going to help the little guys anymore then the current system.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Nope. College basketball has automatic qualifiers which means each team has the ability to play themselves into a National Championship. That is something football does not have.

Wrong again (I'm sensing a trend with you here).

Not all conferences have automatic qualifying bids, and that extends further than college basketall. But thanks for trying I guess.

I don't see it as boo hoo by people lower on the food chain

Yeah but you also think you're a moderate, so we have to take that with a grain of salt.

edited to adjust above & add below:
Ultimately there's a criteria that varies for inclusion from sport to sport. If you destroy college football then why not go all the way & simply declare all teams to have automatic post-season eligibility in all sports? Football happens to have the most exclusive criteria, basketball perhaps the weakest but why not extend the same absurd logic to all sports and just make 'em all eligible. The current argument boils down to "it's unfair to not let everybody in" because {insert joke conference team A here} has as much business being anywhere near the college football national championship as a 6-6 team from the Big 10 or a 4-8 team from the SEC ... but I don't hear anyone crying for them yet. Hell, let's just eliminate the crying, eliminate the regular season altogether and then have a big tournament each year so the simple minded short attention span crowd can comprehend it before rushing off to watch American Idol.

I just wish to all that is Holy that the NCAA would either reorganize their division structure or even simply withdraw recognition from these meaningless fucking conferences in football & be done with them. But then these whiners would cry about that too.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Wrong again (I'm sensing a trend with you here).

Not all conferences in college basketball have automatic qualifying bids.
But thanks for trying I guess.



Yeah but you also think you're a moderate, so we have to take that with a grain of salt.

All conferences have a bid in basketball.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not all conferences in college basketball have automatic qualifying bids.
But thanks for trying I guess.

The only conference that doesn't have an auto bid is the newly formed Great West conference. Once they are out of the transitional status, they will have an auto bid.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

The only conference that doesn't have an auto bid is the newly formed Great West conference. Once they are out of the transitional status, they will have an auto bid.

Hence my edit to include all sports to further illustrate the point I was trying to make.

The fact remains however that not all conferences have automatic qualifiers simply by virtue of their existence. All that differs is the determination of who qualifies. And only 8 of 14 I-AA conferences have automatic bids, how is that legally any different than the FBS situation? Gotta throw them in there too since they're also a part of the NCAA.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And only 8 of 14 I-AA conferences have automatic bids, how is that legally any different than the FBS situation? Gotta throw them in there too since they're also a part of the NCAA.

That ended this year. FCS moves to a 20 team tournament next season. In any event, the conferences in FCS voluntarily chose to not have an automatic spot in the playoffs. For example, the Ivy League chooses not to participate at all in the post season, while the SWAC season usually doesn't end until much later than the other teams. There's a big difference between that scenario and the one in FBS. The BCS is a separate entity from the NCAA.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... when did the government take over the NCAA?

The NCAA is no more a "public" organization than any other vendor/service provider/professional organization that happens to have universities as clients. Or does a university that obtains group health insurance from a supplier suddenly turn that company into a "public" institution? Are the vendors who supply the food to campus dining halls sudden "public" companies ... just because they're chosen by public university as a supplier?

As far as I'm aware no one forces any institution to be an NCAA member. Hell, they're free to not join & schedule exhibition games against Athletes In Action if they so desire. I see no reason they couldn't determine who they'll play, keep track of results & declare themselves a champion in any manner they see fit if they so desire.

I don't get the comparisons your making. The universities are not "buying" anything from other companies or contracting out facilities. They are apart of the NCAA and have a say (big or small as it may be) in it.