Werewolf: XIV Spawn (GAME OVER! Please give feedback)

[SnDvls]

okay any order on what to protect tonight then.

Hoops is doing water again per his usual I assume.

anyone want to make a list of 5-6 "important things/people" to protect

[Passacaglia]

If y'all want me to reveal my role, I'm an empath. I've already used both my abilities -- one to clear Vince, and the other to find out that currently there is more than one spawn.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

If y'all want me to reveal my role, I'm an empath. I've already used both my abilities -- one to clear Vince, and the other to find out that currently there is more than one spawn.

Why wouldnt you come forward with this sooner??? seems kinda odd to withhold this until everyone not revealing their secret role gets a call out

Now, noting its odd to withhold this info and might mean spawn, if its believed that helps me as vince was only about 85% trusted in my mind and it helps us know what were up against

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

If y'all want me to reveal my role, I'm an empath. I've already used both my abilities -- one to clear Vince, and the other to find out that currently there is more than one spawn.

That is HUGE information. So there are at least 2 more spawn.

[RealDeal]

Pass, what statement did you test to find out there was more than one spawn and who said it?

[hoopsguy]

This makes sense - Pass, I believe you have made references to more than one spawn a couple of times over the last few days. So what days did you run each of these scans?

I think we need to get scans on both KWhit and RealDeal as soon as possible. We need to know that the guys we would have the greatest challenges lynching (KWhit now and RealDeal if something happens to KWhit) are working for us. Since there is no succession plan beyond KWhit/RealDeal/Lathum we are fine if all three pass eventually but we are in bad shape if they are in place as the Captain without a 1st Officer to lead a mutiny. Does this make sense or am I completely off base here?

I'm not saying that you should bypass a scan on me. But I would put these people near the start of the queue tomorrow if Wednesday looks at me today. Maybe RealDeal before KWhit since there are multiple people vouching for KWhit through Absolute trust, while the support for RealDeal is based on his support for Vince on Day 3. Plus they can order me to keep them alive with water later this week.

[pennywisesb]

Pass, you cannot give us information like that and then leave the thread. Come on man!

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not saying that you should bypass a scan on me. But I would put these people near the start of the queue tomorrow if Wednesday looks at me today. Maybe RealDeal before KWhit since there are multiple people vouching for KWhit through Absolute trust, while the support for RealDeal is based on his support for Vince on Day 3. Plus they can order me to keep them alive with water later this week.

I agree. I think its important that RD is found to be clean. I say Mr. W scans Hoops today, just to be safe, and then Vince scans RD first thing tomorrow. As far as KWit--I think you all know where Bek and I stand on him.

[Blade6119]

i dont get calls for penny or kwhit being scanned...all three are cleared, unless you think the whole absolute trust is spawn

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

correction...I did not spy on you as I don't have that ability I protected you. After everyone blew up about having to keep the warden to keep the brig. I thought you should be protected in case of attack as you were the only person that could keep our Dr. safe in the brig.

I have no "hidden" role I know of and have never been told of one. I'm good and will go along with whatever needs to happen.

Again I ask......has anyone cleared bek??? why was he exausted the other day???

can anyone besides bek explain that?

anyhow

vote Raders Army

Raiders Army! Not Raider's Army, not Raider Army, not Raders Army!!!!

[Passacaglia]

As for why I didn't reveal it earlier, well Vince didn't really need my help, and I saw no reason to out myself about it, then after a while, I'd used it up! It was a few days ago that I checked to see if there was more than one spawn, almost right after we found out about dubb and RA. I said something like "There is only one spawn left that's alive and not in a coma. That's my guess, anyway." I checked the first sentence, which turned out to be false.

[RealDeal]

I think it's gay to use a scan on me. Only survivors can be duplicants and Mr. W already checked me out. But if that's what people need to get comfortable I can live with that. And if Mr. W wants to use his emphatic power on me a second time...I am not a spawn.

The one thing I don't want is for Kwhit and I to both get scanned tomorrow. Hoops needs to be one of those scans.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

I think it's gay to use a scan on me. Only survivors can be duplicants and Mr. W already checked me out. But if that's what people need to get comfortable I can live with that. And if Mr. W wants to use his emphatic power on me a second time...I am not a spawn.

The one thing I don't want is for Kwhit and I to both get scanned tomorrow. Hoops needs to be one of those scans.

Up until now, i hadnt viewed it this way, but you were cleared by an uncleared...it really doesnt mean much...i would say your support of vince spoke volumes, but the spawn all voted for marc and not schmidty which makes me wonder...you two would fit the description...im not accusing you, but it would sure be ncie cover to support vince

technically, since mr. w is unclear so are you

[hoopsguy]

Now that we have more than one spawn to worry about I think we have to open up our review a little deeper than we have been publicly discussing.

I've been hoping we only had one spawn in our midst up to this point, but kind of dreading that there might be more out there.

If I don't have a clear smoking gun to explore, then I think we need to engage in risk mitigation. The biggest risks we have, once water starts cutting into our ranks is:
1.) I'm spawn and don't give water to any survivors
Likelihood: I know it to be zero, but no one else has this assurance
2.) Vince and/or any other healer is a spawn, not giving us good data - basically saying everyone is clean
Likelihood: 20%? Pulling a number out of the air here
3.) Captain spawn, no remaining officers to remove him from office
Likelihood: 30%? Again, pulling a number out of the air since everyone in this group has some kind of cover in public/private roles

Worst-case scenario: Vince, RealDeal, and Pennywise are spawn. If that is the case then we are pretty much doomed. All scans are screwed, and they can assume the captain role by killing KWhit at night.

Best-case scenario: Two people that are not airtight clean right now are spawn, and we get them in lynch/water (they are still alive) in 2-3 days

[Passacaglia]

Seriously, Blade, you're going to call out ANOTHER obvious survivor?

[RealDeal]

I hear and agree with what you are saying re: Mr. W., but as I have pointed out before, I am (was) a duplicant, and that is clear by the post by barkeep when I scanned Vince and Pass. There is no way a spawn could have done that. Spawn cannot be duplicant.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Now that we have more than one spawn to worry about I think we have to open up our review a little deeper than we have been publicly discussing.

I've been hoping we only had one spawn in our midst up to this point, but kind of dreading that there might be more out there.

If I don't have a clear smoking gun to explore, then I think we need to engage in risk mitigation. The biggest risks we have, once water starts cutting into our ranks is:
1.) I'm spawn and don't give water to any survivors
Likelihood: I know it to be zero, but no one else has this assurance
2.) Vince and/or any other healer is a spawn, not giving us good data - basically saying everyone is clean
Likelihood: 20%? Pulling a number out of the air here
3.) Captain spawn, no remaining officers to remove him from office
Likelihood: 30%? Again, pulling a number out of the air since everyone in this group has some kind of cover in public/private roles

Worst-case scenario: Vince, RealDeal, and Pennywise are spawn. If that is the case then we are pretty much doomed. All scans are screwed, and they can assume the captain role by killing KWhit at night.

Best-case scenario: Two people that are not airtight clean right now are spawn, and we get them in lynch/water (they are still alive) in 2-3 days

Why would penny kill kwhit(and how would he be spawn and kwhit and bek not know??)...they are in the absolute trust together...your views just dont make sense there...though i could see vince, realdeal, and others, you cant include penny then say you want to kill kwhit

And healers have a much higher chance then captain..id give kwhit .01%, and vince around 25-30%

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Seriously, Blade, you're going to call out ANOTHER obvious survivor?

Pass, right now were all surivors...gotta accuse a survivor to get a spawn, im just tossing out ideas

[hoopsguy]

RealDeal, if I'm checked by MrW tonight (which I think makes sense) then I would think if Vince runs two scans tomorrow they are on you and KWhit. If you are both clean then we will have eliminated two of my three danger scenarios from the above post. We then can work together to publish the water list with all of us in complete trust.

Thursday - Vince runs two scans, Penny scans Vince. At this point if Vince is clean then we have eliminated the three biggest threats and we're running three scans every night on a diminishing group of people as the number who get water continues to shrink.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Pass, right now were all surivors...gotta accuse a survivor to get a spawn, im just tossing out ideas

This isn't quite true. There are several people who haven't been cleared by anyone. Go after them.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This isn't quite true. There are several people who haven't been cleared by anyone. Go after them.

I have posted that list numerous times, i was pointing out that real deal isnt clear either since his clearance was a scan by mr. w and mr. w is not clear

[Blade6119]

gotta go to class, be back in about an hour

[RealDeal]

Honestly, Hoops, I would rather have Mr. W check Kwhit, and Vince scan you and me. No offense, but I want you scanned.

[hoopsguy]

Real, maybe I'm not doing a good job of explaining the Captain spawn scenario - it doesn't assume that KWhit is spawn, but that one of the three officers is a spawn and can eventually get to the position of captain (if not there already).

In my worst case scenario, I put you in there instead of Lathum but it could just as easily be Lathum or KWhit. Worst case = docs bad + spawn captain. I'm not including water scenarios in my worst case because I know that I'm not spawn.

The percentages for Dr's are lower because there are only two of them, while there are three officers. Right now there is only one doctor, and he has been cleared by his actions and now by Passacaglia.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

RealDeal, if I'm checked by MrW tonight (which I think makes sense) then I would think if Vince runs two scans tomorrow they are on you and KWhit. If you are both clean then we will have eliminated two of my three danger scenarios from the above post. We then can work together to publish the water list with all of us in complete trust.

Thursday - Vince runs two scans, Penny scans Vince. At this point if Vince is clean then we have eliminated the three biggest threats and we're running three scans every night on a diminishing group of people as the number who get water continues to shrink.

I like this plan. If we clear Hoops tonight, then RD and KWit (I don't really agree here, but if the group wants it, then so be it), and they all turn out clean, then we'll know for a fact that Bek, KWit, Hoops, RD, and myself are clean. Then, after I scan Vince, if he turned out clean, thats 6 people cleared for sure and Vince and my scans will be narrowed down to like 6 people which we could go through in 2 nights.

[RealDeal]

I'm open to any combination of Mr. W and Vince-scanning as long as you are scanned tomorrow.

[RealDeal]

I feel like Hoopsguy is trying to weasel out of being scanned. Call me paranoid, but I want to make sure he is Vince-scanned.

[hoopsguy]

I'm happy to be scanned by anyone who is a survivor at any time through whatever mechanism they can use.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

I feel like Hoopsguy is trying to weasel out of being scanned. Call me paranoid, but I want to make sure he is Vince-scanned.

I see your point here. I think a Vince scan for Hoops is the best move here. I might be paranoid too, but having control of the water supply is a big deal and I want to make sure he's clean. I would also like Vince to scan Mr. W tomorrow I think because if he comes up clean, then RD would be clean most likely.

[RealDeal]

I cant get over how Pass was able to type out his own comment and subject it to his emphatic power. I didn't know you could do that. Why didn't you just do something like take half of the uncleared people and say "A,B, C and D" are not spawn" and then if its no, use your second emphatic statement on "A and B are not spawn."?

If you can use your emphatic power on your own statement, then Mr. W should type out his own carefully tailored statement and check it out.

[hoopsguy]

Cool. Do we have a post from RealDeal that says "I am not a spawn"?

[pennywisesb]

Blade has me wondering about Mr. W now. I don't know if we can trust any "scan" he does until he is cleared as being a survivor.

[hoopsguy]

If I'm being scanned tomorrow, then I'm not being scanned by MrW tonight. And I still think we need to be sure that all three of the bad scenarios I outlined earlier (water, docs, officers) are cleared ASAP. So I would want either KWhit or RealDeal scanned by MrWednesday tonight if I'm on deck for tomorrow.

[RealDeal]

I am not a spawn.
I am not a spawn.
I am not a spawn.

[Passacaglia]

I think hoops needs to be scanned TODAY. If he's spawn, can't he pretty much kill us tonight if we don't lynch him?

[pennywisesb]

Then have him scan RD tonight, because I KNOW KWit is not spawn.

[RealDeal]

No because Kwhit and I are going to check his list and overrule anything fishy.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Raiders Army! Not Raider's Army, not Raider Army, not Raders Army!!!!

sorry man...multi tasking work/this game you hit a wrong key sometimes.

Hell look at how often my name is wrong in this thread and you don't see me screaming

get over it, it's a typo/accident/error/failure to hit the correct key.

sorry man.....now go correct my name in this thread too!

[SnDvls]

dola-

just to appease him

vote Raiders Army

[hoopsguy]

In what way do you not trust MrWednesday?

- He used his empathic power on Day 3, helping us to get Dubb by his actions, if not his voice in the discussion (he did not stake a strong position against Dubb, just verified that RealDeal had scanned and been honest with the results). Would he have faked this role? Very doubtful.
- As an engineer he was not on an Away Team until Day 3, when Ardent used the Miracle Worker. So no worries about conversion there.
- Are you worried he was converted by the Spawn Queen on Night 2, the only night that is an unknown for us pre-LiftOff? If you were a spawn, would an engineer have been your target? Maybe - he wouldn't be protected, but it is not a high-value role later in the game

I don't see him as either original spawn or converted spawn based on the above. But someone please jump in if they think I'm missing (or leaving out) important data in this review.

Still, lets say that he is spawn. Would he accuse a survivor of being a spawn? That guarantees a one-for-one trade, which is not a good scenario for the spawn unless they have some serious numbers going for them. So he'll most likely say that the person is a survivor either way.

As the water guy, I'm likely to let go of people who do not have a significant role to play. MrWednesday will fall in this group. So we don't need to scan him - he won't be with us Thursday morning unless he is a spawn and can survive without water. And then we lynch him.

[pennywisesb]

Point noted Hoops. I just get worried when we are relying on scans from people who haven't been cleared.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I'll be turning in a list of 9 names tonight (0.75 now + 1.5 overnight). Everyone is still alive tomorrow, but there will be some thirsty people. I'll then be able to have a list of six names for every day the rest of the way as long as the spawn don't damage the water.

So there is no way I could kill everyone tonight. If I was evil the worst I could do would be the following:
9 names tonight - everyone alive next day
6 names tomorrow (no new names) - 9 alive next day
6 names (same) - 6 alive next day

So as the water guy if I was working against the crew that is the worst-case scenario. It is brutal, but not a ton worse than the best scenario I can offer:
9 names tonight - everyone alive next day
6 names tomorrow (new names) - with lynches factored in, probably everyone still alive
6 names the next day (new names) - 12 alive, 6 thirsty and 6 not thirsty

Keep in mind the best-case scenario here might not be our best strategy in terms of going after spawn. But it is the most people that I can keep alive.

All of these scenarios assume that I'm around and that the water supply continues to work at its current rate (not damaged).

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

I cant get over how Pass was able to type out his own comment and subject it to his emphatic power. I didn't know you could do that. Why didn't you just do something like take half of the uncleared people and say "A,B, C and D" are not spawn" and then if its no, use your second emphatic statement on "A and B are not spawn."?

If you can use your emphatic power on your own statement, then Mr. W should type out his own carefully tailored statement and check it out.

I just got caught up and this bugs me too. I think it is bs that he can say some random statement and check whether it is the truth. I think the guy is lying.

FWIW, if I am going to die of thirst, I'd rather not die because we lynched some harmless vegetable. This is dumb. Lets vote for somebody else.

[RealDeal]

Barkeep: can you use the empathic power on your own statement?

[hoopsguy]

Fouts, see my post above where I crunch the numbers on the water - you don't need to die of thirst for some time. This does remain a danger, but not necessarily a clear and present one.

And lynching the vegetable is what gets us the nurse tomorrow so we have two scans starting on Thursday.

[Fouts]

Where is Mr. W? You gonna use that power or not?

I am NOT a spawn.

[Fouts]

Here is my list of people that need to be scanned;

Hoops (water boy)
Blade (???)
SnDvls (under the radar)
Fouts (not cleared by scan)
Pass (said some weird things)

If I were to be selfish, I would put myself #1, but I don't think I'm the most important person left.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Here is my list of people that need to be scanned;

Hoops (water boy)
Blade (???)
SnDvls (under the radar)
Fouts (not cleared by scan)
Pass (said some weird things)

If I were to be selfish, I would put myself #1, but I don't think I'm the most important person left.

under what radar? I'm clean. I didn't give phasers to two people who everyone was questioning, 1 then got one the next night and did nothing (not you fouts). I'm not hiding at all. Scan me, don't scan me I don't care, just quit wasting time with all our decisions. My gut feeling is someone at the top is bad and someone who "cleared" them is too, and we're basing all our info on bad info, but that's just my gut feeling.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

I'm sure every single person in this game has at one point claimed they are a villager, so MW should be able to find a statement like that for everyone.

You'd be surprised, I think... there was really very little in the way of unambiguous statements in the first couple of days.

[Passacaglia]

MrW, remember, you can verify a statement that you've made.