What the hell. . . Texas HS Ref gets drilled

[TroyF]

Thought I had seen just about everything.

Then I see this video of a Texas HS football game:

San Antonio HS Football Players Hit Referee on Video: Latest Comments, Reaction | Bleacher Report

ugh.

[NobodyHere]

The kid needs to be charged with assault.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The kid needs to be charged with assault.

Battery, actually. Assault is the threat, battery is the action. Both kids should be charged, kicked off the team and expelled from school.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The kid needs to be charged with assault.

Both kids. I missed it the first time I watched it. The second kid dives in and hits the ref when he's down. Just sick.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The kid needs to be charged with assault.

Both. The 2nd speared the ref.

It's probably safe to say these 2 never play HS football again. I'd be a bit surprised if the coach wasn't suspended as well.

[JPhillips]

The investigations also needs to look at the staff. If this was suggested or ordered the coaches are just as responsible as the players.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Both kids. I missed it the first time I watched it. The second kid dives in and hits the ref when he's down. Just sick.

I missed it the first time as well.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The investigations also needs to look at the staff. If this was suggested or ordered the coaches are just as responsible as the players.

My first question as an investigator would be this: "At what point did you kick both players off of the football team"

If the response is anything other than "20 seconds after I got back to the locker room," the coach should be fired.

[Young Drachma]

Deplorable. Coaches should be held responsible too unless they truly had no knowledge, which knowing the culture of football I find hard to believe.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Grover

Battery, actually. Assault is the threat, battery is the action. Both kids should be charged, kicked off the team and expelled from school.

Just from quick googling it would be considered assault in Texas, and hitting a sports official is at least a class B misdemeanor carrying a penalty of up to 180 days in jail or a fine up to $2000, or both.

/armchair lawyer

[RainMaker]

I have to wonder if a coach had some say in this. Doesn't seem like something two pkayers come up with on their own.

[molson]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Just from quick googling it would be considered assault in Texas, and hitting a sports official is at least a class B misdemeanor carrying a penalty of up to 180 days in jail or a fine up to $2000, or both.

/armchair lawyer

Ya, Texas, New York and probably a few other states are "backwards", going against the older legal meaning of those terms.

But ya, he should be charged with whatever they charge in Texas for striking innocent people with no justification.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I have to wonder if a coach had some say in this. Doesn't seem like something two pkayers come up with on their own.

I'm in the middle on this. Is it beyond two kids to come up with something on their own? I mean, 16 year olds CAN and DO make their own decisions and they also don't always think clearly. I don't think holding the adult accountable is really worthwhile until we get more information.

That's why my question is above. How quick were they kicked off the team? Or have they been kicked off the team yet and they will be only because of the video? I want to see the coaches reaction to it because that will tell me most of what I need to know about the coaches agreement with the act.

[Sweed]

Holy shit that is just terrible.

Players banned from playing again and the coach's job should be on the line unless there is a convincing explanation from the players and those on the sidelines he had no knowledge or was involved in any way. Did coach pull those two kids to the side at some time and have a conversation? Did anyone on the sideline see or hear anything implicating the staff? Not sure they can make a case that coach wasn't involved in a believable way but to be fair I suppose one has to listen and then decide. Maybe the coach really had no clue?

[MizzouRah]

As a youth soccer referee, I find that very disturbing. Banned from all HS sports for sure and a full investigation and possible charges for battery and some serious consulting. I hope the referee is ok, he could have been seriously hurt.

Hopefully the other referees stopped the game right there and that team would get a forfeit and asked to leave immediately with the players involved/coaching staff held by police.

[thesloppy]

Considering that 2 Jay players had already been ejected, even ignorance doesn't seem like a good excuse for those kids' coaches. Their team was already out of control, and either they didn't notice, didn't do anything to stop it from advancing further, or they sanctioned the attack on the ref.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Deplorable. Coaches should be held responsible too unless they truly had no knowledge, which knowing the culture of football I find hard to believe.

I dunno about that, I mean, I've seen some things where it would be totally believed.

Then again, I watched as seniors on an 0-10 team physically assaulted their own coaches in an incident so violent that police charged the field to break it up.

Given that, you see why I can believe pretty much anything is possible.

[rowech]

My first year coaching varsity soccer I took over for a team that had won four games the year before. We went 12-3-1 and were the number one seed in the district. During that year, I had a great player who we played at sweeper because it was best for the team. He could have played offense but we were better with him in the back. We got him on offense as we could. During one game, he made a bad mistake and cost the team a goal. He stormed off the field refusing to go back in until I played him on offense.

Next day at practice I told him he could either turn in his uniform and be done or try and earn back his starting job but know that he would be playing sweeper. He agreed and I told him anything else happened and he would be off the team.

He earned his staring spot back after about two weeks and then three games after that he was fouled. While setting the ball he purposely stepped on the kid who had fouled him as he was still on the ground. The official told him he must not have a brain in his head. I subbed him and for the rest of the game he mumbled how the official couldn't talk to him like that and that he would get an apology.

I go up into the stands and ask his parents to take him home or know we might have to physically restrain him. They tell me to do what's needed. Game ends and he goes towards ref on a sprint. I grab him and hold him back and he gets away. Assistants do the same. We all watch as he goes and pushes the ref yelling f-bombs, etc. After the game the super, AD, and principal talk to me and I tell them I'll be kicking him off the team tonight. They ask me to sleep on it to make sure it's what I want to do.

Next day we have a meeting with the AD, parents, and player. AD starts backing off some and puts the decision on me when kid and parents ask for another chance. I refuse, they storm out. Cost the team district title for sure and likely a regional appearance at least. End of season I win a coach of the year award as voted on by other coaches for the turn around in my first year and showing you can do what's right.

Next season is down as we knew it would be as we only had two seniors and one of them didn't start. We had ten of eleven starters for two years and I put them in positions I wanted them to be in and ratcheted up the schedule to some tough, tough opponents and bigger schools knowing we would struggle. We went 5-11 but the growth was fantastic and I knew the following year we were going to be ouststsnding. Made mention of this at the sports banquet.

Three days later I was fired by the AD. Later I would find out from a former player that the most influential parents got together a petition and had me removed because I had cost the team the previous year and could not win the second year.

A year off and I decided to apply for another position and upon not getting the job I asked why. I was told the previous AD I worked for gave a negative review.

In two years, I went from coach of the year doing the right thing to fired because I didn't put winning first essentially. The lesson I learned is that doing the right things only work if you're winning. If you upset the wrong people you will pay the penalty at some point.

[Thomkal]

So was the ref hurt?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

The lesson I learned is that doing the right things only work if you're winning.

At the risk of a sidebar, at the end of the day, winning is the job.

We're going through some of that (sort of) locally with a coach that is one of the finest people in many respects I've seen in the business. Problem is that, bottom line, he appears to be unable to win under any circumstance (with all scrappers, with a roster built around a star, with a roster that contains a star that defers to role players).

As basketball coaches go he's a great P.E. teacher but it's painfully obvious that he isn't a winning basketball coach. (we're talking about going on two decades here). It's a situation I've seen before too, again a fine fellow that simply lacked the ability to coach winning basketball in any scenario.

All the fine fellow stuff in the world only goes so far, winning is the job. Winning within the rules & a reasonable framework of personnel management is the optimal situation.

edit to add: I'm also watching what looks like the beginning of the opposite situation that'll play out over a couple of years at a nearby school as well. The football HC is an unlikable ass by pretty much every account I've ever heard, but he's 79-24 at a school that went 1-19 when it opened under a different HC. He's had a major run of talent during his tenure but now that well is dry and their 0-2 start this year feels like the beginning of several down years to come. I'd put his chances of survival beyond next season as being very low. His personality was tolerable with region titles, very likely much less tolerable without them.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm in the middle on this. Is it beyond two kids to come up with something on their own? I mean, 16 year olds CAN and DO make their own decisions and they also don't always think clearly. I don't think holding the adult accountable is really worthwhile until we get more information.

That's why my question is above. How quick were they kicked off the team? Or have they been kicked off the team yet and they will be only because of the video? I want to see the coaches reaction to it because that will tell me most of what I need to know about the coaches agreement with the act.

While I get what you are saying, I think we have all the information that we need. In three separate incidents, the coach had 4 players ejected from the game. Outside of a brawl (which actually resulted in the suspension of the game IIRC), I don't think I have ever seen that many players from the same team ejected in one game. The coach has to be held accountable for not being able to control the kids under his control.

[JeeberD]

There's a post in the Deadspin comments from someone claiming to be a John Jay player and saying that the ref called some of the players a racial slur. If that's true, it's deplorable...but report the ref to the appropriate governing body and let them handle it. By taking it into their own hands the kids have likely ended their football careers, may face criminal charges, and may wind up getting their coach in trouble, too.

Of course, no one has ever tried to say that high school boys are the most rational beings on the planet.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

There's a post in the Deadspin comments from someone claiming to be a John Jay player and saying that the ref called some of the players a racial slur. If that's true, it's deplorable...but report the ref to the appropriate governing body and let them handle it. By taking it into their own hands the kids have likely ended their football careers, may face criminal charges, and may wind up getting their coach in trouble, too.

Of course, no one has ever tried to say that high school boys are the most rational beings on the planet.

It's almost certain that the ref did something of the sort. There's no way those kids do that unless there was some form of provocation.

This isn't to defend them in any way either - they deserve to be booted, prevented from playing again and charged with assault, the whole deal. That's not how you resolve whatever issue they had with that ref.

But I'd be very surprised if that ref didn't have a pretty good idea of why he was targeted.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

There's a post in the Deadspin comments from someone claiming to be a John Jay player and saying that the ref called some of the players a racial slur. If that's true, it's deplorable...but report the ref to the appropriate governing body and let them handle it. By taking it into their own hands the kids have likely ended their football careers, may face criminal charges, and may wind up getting their coach in trouble, too.

Of course, no one has ever tried to say that high school boys are the most rational beings on the planet.

The question now is if there is any proof. Did the other team hear it? Does the ref have any other instances of racist behavior in his history?

Either way, it doesn't really change my opinion of what was done and I always love how this is used as some sort of excuse for violence.

Let me add, if it can be proven the ref said something, he should lose his job instantly. I'll wait until I hear the rest.

[Easy Mac]

Is it just me, or were the players lined up extremely deep, especially if the other team is running out the clock. I would think the coach would have noticed and we would have seen someone yelling to them if the sideline wasn't in on it.

[digamma]

Am I the only one who can't stop watching the thing?

Obviously a pretty brainless thing to do.

[PilotMan]

The moral of this story is Zidane should have never retaliated. No matter what that asshat said about his family.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

While I get what you are saying, I think we have all the information that we need. In three separate incidents, the coach had 4 players ejected from the game. Outside of a brawl (which actually resulted in the suspension of the game IIRC), I don't think I have ever seen that many players from the same team ejected in one game. The coach has to be held accountable for not being able to control the kids under his control.

You could easily be right. A high school team with that many guys kicked out is out of control. Just a horrible situation all the way around.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The moral of this story is Zidane should have never retaliated. No matter what that asshat said about his family.

What was that story? The other guy said something about nailing his sister or something?

As great of a player as he was, what a moron.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by digamma

Am I the only one who can't stop watching the thing?

Obviously a pretty brainless thing to do.

Oh yeah, totally.


From a strictly "Humor" standpoint, I keep wanting the other DB to swoop in at the last second and go low synchronized with the other guy going high.

And obv both kids should be banned from all HS sports

[tarcone]

I want to see what the consequences are for all parties. If someone sees it, please inform.

I could see the program being suspended. This is an out of control situation and an embarrassment to the HS.

Horrible.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

What was that story? The other guy said something about nailing his sister or something?

As great of a player as he was, what a moron.

Zidane head butt story, reason, statue & video | Football Bible

[judicial clerk]

I disagree with dawgfan that the ref almost certainly did something along the lines of a racial slur to provoke this. I remember a couple years ago an umpire was hit in the face on purpose in a girls softball game on the order of the coach because they did not like the umpire's calls. There is video of that incident as well and it reminds me of this.

Sometimes kids are dumb/bad and some coaches are assholes.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

There's a post in the Deadspin comments from someone claiming to be a John Jay player and saying that the ref called some of the players a racial slur. If that's true, it's deplorable...but report the ref to the appropriate governing body and let them handle it. By taking it into their own hands the kids have likely ended their football careers, may face criminal charges, and may wind up getting their coach in trouble, too.

Of course, no one has ever tried to say that high school boys are the most rational beings on the planet.

That also seems to be the excuse everyone uses when people get caught fucking up. Believe Marcus Smart tried to say the same thing until a video was released showing he was lying.

Either way, it's a bitch move to hit someone from behind like that. At least man up and do it face to face.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That also seems to be the excuse everyone uses when people get caught fucking up. Believe Marcus Smart tried to say the same thing until a video was released showing he was lying.

Either way, it's a bitch move to hit someone from behind like that. At least man up and do it face to face.

+1

And to add...in my experience the likelihood of the "racial slur from the ref" is in direct contrast to the level of "bitch move" that is done. Or in other words, the bigger the cheapshot, the less likely the person was to deserve it.

[PilotMan]

It doesn't matter what, if anything was said, it's a bullshit move done by losers.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

I disagree with dawgfan that the ref almost certainly did something along the lines of a racial slur to provoke this. I remember a couple years ago an umpire was hit in the face on purpose in a girls softball game on the order of the coach because they did not like the umpire's calls. There is video of that incident as well and it reminds me of this.

Sometimes kids are dumb/bad and some coaches are assholes.

Yeah, this was my first thought too. Could be as simple as 2 players had already been ejected so these two, and maybe coach, thought the ref wasn't calling the game fairly and it was payback time. If so that's a chickenshit move!

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That also seems to be the excuse everyone uses when people get caught fucking up. Believe Marcus Smart tried to say the same thing until a video was released showing he was lying.

Either way, it's a bitch move to hit someone from behind like that. At least man up and do it face to face.

My thought would be if these kids are making that claim then make it clear to them, the coach, and the HS that if it's found they are lying the penalties are going to be worse than just the kids, and maybe coach, being banned. Lying about this ref would result in the team being suspended for a year too. Then see if they want to continue with their complaint. Right now lying is a nothing to lose strategy for them.

Of course it's always possible this ref did the deed so it does need to be investigated but it will take a lot more than an anonymous post on a web forum for me to believe it. If this ref is the kind to lose his cool and use a slur there would be other teams\players that have heard him at some time? If it ends up true then you certainly fire the ref and he never works a HS game again. Kids are still banned and the coach to be determined by what an investigation turns up.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm in the middle on this. Is it beyond two kids to come up with something on their own? I mean, 16 year olds CAN and DO make their own decisions and they also don't always think clearly. I don't think holding the adult accountable is really worthwhile until we get more information.

That's why my question is above. How quick were they kicked off the team? Or have they been kicked off the team yet and they will be only because of the video? I want to see the coaches reaction to it because that will tell me most of what I need to know about the coaches agreement with the act.

Originally Posted by miami_fan

While I get what you are saying, I think we have all the information that we need. In three separate incidents, the coach had 4 players ejected from the game. Outside of a brawl (which actually resulted in the suspension of the game IIRC), I don't think I have ever seen that many players from the same team ejected in one game. The coach has to be held accountable for not being able to control the kids under his control.

There is absolutely no way the coaching staff should not be held accountable. Whether someone on staff "suggested" this or not, the events of the game clearly show the staff had absolutely no control of the players and THERE IS NO EXCUSE for that.

27 years coaching and have never had a player from our schools do anything even close to this hair brained because as a program we held them accountable. It starts and ends with the staff and the either culture they allow, or the culture they instill. There is no other answer, excuse or reason for this to happen.

As far the alleged racial slur? If true that official should be barred from ever officiating again, ever. That does still not excuse the action. A disciplined team brings that to the coaches attention who addresses right then with the head official and files a complaint with the local governing body for officials.

If the slur did occur and the coach instructed/suggested/loosely insinuated, or whatever that the official deserved to "pay', then that coach is done, head coach (if it was not him) is suspended (you are responsible for your staff and players) and this players are still kicked off the team and banned from further participation.

Sorry, but no other outcome is acceptable.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

At the risk of a sidebar, at the end of the day, winning is the job.

This is something I just don't 'get' ...

For me High School sports teaching isn't to make 'winners' - truck me, 99.9% of the people who play high school sports will NEVER go professional, as such the important thing shouldn't be making them winners at all costs - it should be teaching them to enjoy the sport and to give them strong character and team skills ... those translate into life skills in the way that a meaningless high school trophy never does.

(I understand I might be in the minority of parents here - but frankly I'd prefer a coach who taught good character over one who teaches my kid to win at all costs regardless of what it takes ... personal preference I know )

[Senator]

It wasn't a slur. They were losing a close game and they reacted. I've been around similar things like this before. Kids are much smarter than you give them credit for, the slur is their get out of jail card.
I have been in situations where I have a close game go against me due to a perceived bad call by the ref, or have got indications that the refs are playing favorites, or that they are gaming a game to their liking, and I have had to dig deep not to lose my composure.
Consequences these days are not a real fear for young men, especially. They know how to game the system, and they consider it a victory when they do.

[PilotMan]

I was hoping you'd show up with some insight on this one. Nice to see you around Senator.

[Easy Mac]

Reports are the wrong kid was ejected and on the next play the kid who got to stay in got 15 yards for a late hit on the qb during a kneel down. I can't imagine no one on the coaching staff wasn't aware what was going on.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

This is something I just don't 'get' ...

For me High School sports teaching isn't to make 'winners' - truck me, 99.9% of the people who play high school sports will NEVER go professional, as such the important thing shouldn't be making them winners at all costs - it should be teaching them to enjoy the sport and to give them strong character and team skills ... those translate into life skills in the way that a meaningless high school trophy never does.

(I understand I might be in the minority of parents here - but frankly I'd prefer a coach who taught good character over one who teaches my kid to win at all costs regardless of what it takes ... personal preference I know )

If the primary object is teaching things that "translate into life skills" perhaps it's even more important to have learning to win be one of the things taught. The notion that losing, or being mediocre, is vital part of "learning valuable lessons" is one that I don't subscribe to in the slightest.

Look, I'm not without certain lines about that, there IS such a thing as "winning the right way" afaic. But generally speaking, akin perhaps to something like the Detroit Pistons "Bad Boys" era, succeed locally and you're loved.

Look no further than a certain (HS) coach is my area who I loathed. Virtually every school where he ever coached over several decades ended up in trouble for improper recruiting violations, wins were vacated, etc ... yet he's widely revered for winning over 700 games and multiple state titles AND was even selected for the local sports Hall of Fame despite being one of the dirtiest characters I ever saw at any level. Find religion late in life and apparently Jesus isn't the only one who forgives all sins. Or something like that.

The point I was aiming for, I guess, is just that when coaches are selected it's largely on the primary basis of producing a winner. It's much better if other things go along with that but that's THE job. Various other life skills can be taught along with winning, it's not believed to be a mutually exclusive proposition.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Has anyone (Senator?) got any perspective on this school or this football program? I looked, the school seems to have above average test scores, an 80% Hispanic population, couldn't find economic data down to the attendance zone level. Who are these kids basically, what's the environment? For that matter, is this a football powerhouse or a bottom feeder or one in the masses in the middle with mixed results year to year?

I mean, there's a pretty wide range of possibilities here IMO, in terms of how something like this happens.

I've seen places where that sequence is virtually (if not explicitly) coach driven. The back to back late hits that preceded it are part & parcel of playing certain teams here, behavior that's downright predictable & the product of certain systems/staffs/philosophies. We just played one of those teams two weeks ago in fact, with back to back knee dive attempts on kneel downs.

By the same token, I've definitely seen teams where there were a few bad actors that emerged amongst an otherwise "normal" program, where the behavior would be decidedly out of character for Team X but there are individuals who are of a different sort.

Basically, I can't in good conscience throw an entire program or staff under the bus automatically. IMO, this could easily enough be "bad kids gone rogue" as it is something systemic, not nearly enough info to make that determination, at least not that I've found.

Also, having followed an incident (in a different state) where players violently attacked an opposing coach off the field well after the end of a game & seeing relatively little in terms of sanction applied, I'm not sure what expectations for broad punishment there can be. The victim ended up with a steel plate in his head to repair the career-ending damage done by a helmet swinging opposing player, his promising career (7-3 in a single season as head coach, team is 4-29 since the incident under three HCs in 4 years) ... a grand jury failed to return any indictments at all.

The other coach involved? Still on the job ... he got his perennial bottom feeding team to the playoffs the following season & has hovered mostly around .500 since.

[digamma]

The fact that the Jay coach didn't pull the right kid off the field is disturbing/disappointing. Having been both in the press box and and the sidelines for dozens of high school football games, the coaches would have known without a doubt which kids performed the act and should have pulled them off the field before any ejection. Pretty poor effort by the coaching staff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by digamma

The fact that the Jay coach didn't pull the right kid off the field is disturbing/disappointing. Having been both in the press box and and the sidelines for dozens of high school football games, the coaches would have known without a doubt which kids performed the act and should have pulled them off the field before any ejection. Pretty poor effort by the coaching staff.

I've seen just the opposite occur too though, where a foul was against player A but the staff thought it was committed by Player B (to the point that the wrong kid was chewed out on the sidelines) ... and if the wrong guy was ejected (as someone mentioned) that could have caused legitimate confusion.

And who knows if there was even any coaches left in the press box with that vantage point (since we were at kneel down time according to one report), my experience has been that once you're there, over half the time the guys upstairs have already unplugged & are making their way down to the field. That's very commonplace.

Again, the whole program & whole staff could easily be p.o.s. for all I know ... I'm simply saying that I don't see enough here to automatically assume that. There ARE bad kids out there folks, there ARE kids that coaches can't always anticipate.

fwiw, here's the hype article on the offending team's HC, when he was hired back in April 2013. At least to that point the HC involved was pretty much all but hailed as some sort of rising (semi)star, first Hispanic coach at multiple programs, DIII All-American lineman at Hardin-Simmons, his brother is a coach, his college roommate/teammate is an opposing HC, the article ends with this

"Besides his parents, Gloria and Joe Gutierrez, Gary credits his high school coach, Mike Morgan, and college coach, Jimmie Keeling, for helping shape his life and career.

“My parents taught me to just work hard and do things the right way,” Gutierrez said. “I get emotional just talking about them and my coaches. I never had to look far to find people I respected. They were at home and at school.”

edit to add: To avoid any additional confusion, I will leave my original comment about being in kneeldown time when the ref incident occurred intact BUT I have subsequently found accounts that clarify that the game was still in doubt (however faint) at the time of that play & therefore coaches were almost certainly still in the pressbox. The penalty on that ref play is what gave the opponent a first down & allowed them to kneel the clock out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

incidentally, the player who was ejected several plays earlier -- NOT the ref incident -- was, according to local reports, star QB/ATH prospect Moses Reynolds.

He has offers from over a dozen D1 schools ranging from Baylor to Navy.

NISD investigating incident with Jay players, official in Friday's game

The player wearing the No. 12 jersey was ejected by the official after the play, but No. 81 remained in the game and another Jay player was tossed instead, Laing said.

"After he (the official) got knocked down and he got back up, he ejected one of the wrong kids," Laing said. "No. 12 and No. 81 are the ones involved in the video, but No. 81 did not get ejected. No. 12 and No. 7, who came over after the play, got ejected."

The ejections came after Jay senior free safety Moses Reynolds already had been kicked out of the game following an altercation with a Marble Falls player. A fourth Jay player was tossed earlier in the game.

Reynolds confirmed to KENS 5 that he was ejected "a couple of plays" before the incident involving the official. Reynolds, who also plays quarterback for the Mustangs, said he got tossed from the game while he was playing defense.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And JUST since the story isn't a big enough mess. The whole "late hit on a kneel down" deal? That was on the final play of the game AFTER the ref hit.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/hssport...on-final-play/


That was #81, the kid who was NOT ejected for his role in that play. (see above, where the refs actually ejected a bystander instead of the 2nd offender)

So, based on all the pieces, you had:

1 ejected player "earlier in the game", not unheard of stuff

THEN the star ATH ejected a few plays prior to the ref incident, also not unheard of stuff

THEN 2 players ejected for the ref incident (one rightly, one wrongly identified), which was truly bizarre (and why we're talking about it)

THEN the late hit on the kneeldown

That kid still being on the field does put the staff in a questionable position but at the same time, given the 3-ring circus that most HS sidelines are under normal situations much less one that had suddenly gotten into the Twilight Zone I can easily believe that the coaches could have thought the two ejected players were the actual culprits and didn't realize they'd left the offender on the field.

Did they know? Certainly possible.
Can I say they knew? Not with any clear conscience whatsoever at this point.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

There is absolutely no way the coaching staff should not be held accountable. Whether someone on staff "suggested" this or not, the events of the game clearly show the staff had absolutely no control of the players and THERE IS NO EXCUSE for that.

27 years coaching and have never had a player from our schools do anything even close to this hair brained because as a program we held them accountable. It starts and ends with the staff and the either culture they allow, or the culture they instill. There is no other answer, excuse or reason for this to happen.

As far the alleged racial slur? If true that official should be barred from ever officiating again, ever. That does still not excuse the action. A disciplined team brings that to the coaches attention who addresses right then with the head official and files a complaint with the local governing body for officials.

If the slur did occur and the coach instructed/suggested/loosely insinuated, or whatever that the official deserved to "pay', then that coach is done, head coach (if it was not him) is suspended (you are responsible for your staff and players) and this players are still kicked off the team and banned from further participation.

Sorry, but no other outcome is acceptable.

Here in Washington, as far as baseball goes, in both league play and tournaments for my team if one of my players is ejected for a disciplinary issue I get ejected with him. This is 14u baseball, but the same is pretty standard for tournaments and non-HS league play all the way up through 18u. At the end of the day the coach is responsible for the discipline of his team.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And JUST since the story isn't a big enough mess. The whole "late hit on a kneel down" deal? That was on the final play of the game AFTER the ref hit.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/hssport...on-final-play/


That was #81, the kid who was NOT ejected for his role in that play. (see above, where the refs actually ejected a bystander instead of the 2nd offender)

So, based on all the pieces, you had:

1 ejected player "earlier in the game", not unheard of stuff

THEN the star ATH ejected a few plays prior to the ref incident, also not unheard of stuff

THEN 2 players ejected for the ref incident (one rightly, one wrongly identified), which was truly bizarre (and why we're talking about it)

THEN the late hit on the kneeldown

That kid still being on the field does put the staff in a questionable position but at the same time, given the 3-ring circus that most HS sidelines are under normal situations much less one that had suddenly gotten into the Twilight Zone I can easily believe that the coaches could have thought the two ejected players were the actual culprits and didn't realize they'd left the offender on the field.

Did they know? Certainly possible.
Can I say they knew? Not with any clear conscience whatsoever at this point.

I am sure Paul Johnson is wondering where the hell this rational JiMGA is when discussing Georgia Tech football